Apple has some damage control to do here. Whether there is an issue or not is not the question. Apple must take the steps needed to fix the problem or prove beyond a shadow of doubt that no problem exists. Apples actions thus far do nothing but bolster the belief that an issue does in fact have merit in fact and practice.
Although it would be very painful for Apple in the short term. A voluntary recall of the phone and a redesign of the casing. To pretend that all is just fine would be a page out of MS's book as they found out with Vista.
Apple has some damage control to do here. Whether there is an issue or not is not the question. Apple must take the steps needed to fix the problem or prove beyond a shadow of doubt that no problem exists. Apples actions thus far do nothing but bolster the belief that an issue does in fact have merit in fact and practice.
Although it would be very painful for Apple in the short term. A voluntary recall of the phone and a redesign of the casing. To pretend that all is just fine would be a page out of MS's book as they found out with Vista.
Respectfully submitted
HT
Why the hell should apple do something here ? again.. it works just fine here in Europe, no issues at all... ask around and see if there is one European who has a iPhone 4 if he has that issue ? try.... you should slowly ask if your operator and it's infrastructure is still state of the art! as mentioned before, we tested a couple of iPhones 4 here in Switzerland, on two operators now (Swisscom and Orange), no problem at all!! So why should Apple change something ? can't understand the logic here...
Sorry but a cheap Toyota vs any American auto in the sameprice classis going to get spanked by Toyota. You have to spend $45,000 or more for a decent US auto and even then, your 45,000 is getting you a $25k car.
I know this is deviating form the point, but I'll call that bet. Name the $25k Japanese car and the $45k U.S. made car and "no" you can't compare the Toyota Prius to the Chevrolet Volt (two different technologies). Walk the walk, as the saying goes.
Apple has every right to delete threads pointing to the obviously biased consumer reports article. The article cites results from tests that in no way mimic real life situations. No one who actually owns an iPhone experiences these symptoms. Anyone who says otherwise is either a troll or an android plant.
Pure speculation on your part. How can you say "No one who actually owns an iPhone experiences these symptoms"? You don't speak for me and I do own the faulty thing. Consumer reports is spot on dude. Such a fanboy.....
This is turning into a PR nightmare. If Apple wouldn't have jumped into the stupidity of denial mode to begin with, this would not be a big deal. If they would have simply said "we'll look into the reports" instead of making all the stupid remarks they've made, and offer free bumpers to any iPhone 4 owner who wants one, there would be no PR problem. Way to screw up the biggest product launch in their history.
The reality is, there is a problem, but it's also easily fixed. Apple just needs to pull their heads out of the sand and get to it already. The external side of the antennas need a non-conductive coating applied. That's it! Dang it, get it done already! Sheesh.
When it comes right down to it, the only company that's even been able to hurt Apple is Apple. Unfortunately they've been very adept at it throughout their history.
Pure speculation on your part. How can you say "No one who actually owns an iPhone experiences these symptoms"? You don't speak for me and I do own the faulty thing. Consumer reports is spot on dude. Such a fanboy.....
I don't believe your device is faulty, you just do not have the possibility to check it with another operator.. In Europe, not one phone has a problem.. We don't believe tha iPhones are the problem, the operator is...
Good engineering practice is to give the scope of your review. If you like the display, comment on that. If you like the battery life, comment on that. Take measurements.
But CR went several steps too far; they said that all phones drop bars when the phone is held, and that the iPhone 4 behaved similarily. This was obviously NOT THE TRUTH - that is a lie, or a very gross assumption.
Face it, CR grabbed a hypothesis from a dark and unsanitary place and plastered that hypothesis as fact - now they are eating that hypothesis and their credability as a legimate reviewing magazine is understandably being called into question.
This 180 degree (Oh Crap!!) change in review is pretty much inexcuseable for a magazine that is sold as an unbiased, honest, ad-free, engineering based assessment of all consumer goods. They went from a thumbs-up to a thumbs-down in a matter of weeks.
Heads are probably already rolling out the door.
More likely, the first time they tested it on perceived audio quality, the second time by measuring the dB drop. If the phone copes well on a low signal as found by AnandTech this is not too surprising.
we live in Switzerland, altough the iPhone 4 is not officially available here, we drove quickly over to France and bought a couple of iPhone 4. We came back and tested them really hard... especially we tested this reception issue and we have no issues here. We use to touch it around the antenna, we even touched it with our tongue ! nothing... it works, no issues here...
We think you have a problem with the operator, in Switzerland there is absolutely no signal issues and dropped calls, nothing! Try to think out of the box and try it outside the US and you'll see it works perfectly.. and most of all, own one before you shout here !!!! The iPhone 4 has absolutely no problem, nothing!
Don't mind. The more the americans return their iPhones to Apple, the faster its availability will improve elsewhere in the world, and sooner I'll be able to get iP4s for the rest of my family which is spread all over the "rest of the world", where reception is not a problem.
I don't believe your device is faulty, you just do not have the possibility to check it with another operator.. In Europe, not one phone has a problem.. We don't believe tha iPhones are the problem, the operator is...
Looking at the evidence here, there are too many people experiencing this problem for it not to be real.
However, there are too many NOT experiencing it for it to be a clear-cut pheomenon impacting everyone. In fact, many people - including myself - are seeing improved service and loving everything about the device!
The AT&T service area doesn't seem to matter, either. Some people in good service areas get it, some in bad service areas (I.e. San Francisco) don't.
I think the problem is with variations in people's hands. Some sweat a lot and some don't. Perhaps those who do are affected and those who don't are not?
In any case, the simple solution of buying a $30 bumper case seems to solve the problem for all. I didn't have any problem, but after a near death experience where I dropped my phone, fortunately without damage, i practically ran to the Apple Store and bought the case. I hated previous iPhone cases but really love this one, since they deftly added controls to the outside, making it a lot like having no case at all.
The phone is just plain amazing and I think you're nuts to return it without trying the case solution. I do think Apple should give away cases to those impacted by the problem. But I think Consumer Reports is making a mountain out of a molehill, and I am disappointed with how they handled the situation.
Consumer Report is flip-flopping, praising the iPhone one minute, then dismissing it, then doing some sleight-of-hand back-pedaling. There's no need to entertain any of that. Apple has every right to delete that nonsense from their own boards.
The first amendment applies only to the government's attitude towards what is and is not legally allowed to be spoken and expressed. It has no relation whatsoever to what a private individual or organization allows or does not allow on their own private property.
Back to high school government class for you.
Actually, political speech in the workplace is protected by the first amendment, so it does affect what is allowed on private property to that extent.
But, Apple has always deleted rant threads for as long as they've had support forums. They are support forums, and Apple doesn't fund them so people can come in and trash its products, there are plenty of other venues for that, like AI. That they deleted these doesn't really mean anything since deleting rant threads is a long-time policy, and these it seems were all basically rant threads.
Lest anyone think me a troll or fanboy, here's my post from earlier today on Marketwatch:
"It's nice to finally have an independent (sort of) testing agency validate my comments, which I've been making since around June 24th or so. People have accused me of:
Never owning an iPhone 4 (have since June 23rd)
Not knowing anything about research (I've done over 20 years of same)
Being an Apple hater (have almost 100% of my stock in Apple, and have since before the ip4 was released, and still own it today, so why would I broadcast this info to the world?)
It's all in my head, and can't be repeatable (demonstrated to Apple folks and ATT folks within one block of each store, and have been able to demonstrate it at will anyplace
Refusing to use a bumper to take care of a design flaw (guilty as charged here, I suppose)
Not knowing how to hold it (wait -- I don't know how to hold it to NOT get it to do this? - now I'm confused.
One thing is for sure - if Jobs can't fix this (hardware, not magic software), then my net worth will be coming down as fast as the "more bars in less places" ads that ATT wisely chose to ax (maybe they knew all along - nah, that's just crazy talk)"
None of the seasoned posters are accusing you, however. That's what matters most.
More likely, the first time they tested it on perceived audio quality, the second time by measuring the dB drop. If the phone copes well on a low signal as found by AnandTech this is not too surprising.
That's fair enough, but AnandTech only drove around the one town.
Apple has every right to delete threads pointing to the obviously biased consumer reports article. The article cites results from tests that in no way mimic real life situations. No one who actually owns an iPhone experiences these symptoms. Anyone who says otherwise is either a troll or an android plant.
am not a troll or a plant, but did have serious signal problems when held in my left hand, which is how I use the phone with apps, but not calls. I bought a bumper, and its pretty much cured the problem, I had intended to get a bumper anyway, but its still £25.00 that I had to spend to fix the problem.
Calling everyone who has an issue a troll or a plant is not the answer. If it had bothered me that much I would have returned the phone, as it was I made the choice to spend some more and fix it myself.
I don't however think that there is a justification for a class action that just the lawyers trying it on.
Comments
They are deleting the standalone threads that aren't asking for support.
Exactly, it's not a discussion board, it's for specific questions.
Although it would be very painful for Apple in the short term. A voluntary recall of the phone and a redesign of the casing. To pretend that all is just fine would be a page out of MS's book as they found out with Vista.
Respectfully submitted
HT
Apple has some damage control to do here. Whether there is an issue or not is not the question. Apple must take the steps needed to fix the problem or prove beyond a shadow of doubt that no problem exists. Apples actions thus far do nothing but bolster the belief that an issue does in fact have merit in fact and practice.
Although it would be very painful for Apple in the short term. A voluntary recall of the phone and a redesign of the casing. To pretend that all is just fine would be a page out of MS's book as they found out with Vista.
Respectfully submitted
HT
Why the hell should apple do something here ? again.. it works just fine here in Europe, no issues at all... ask around and see if there is one European who has a iPhone 4 if he has that issue ? try.... you should slowly ask if your operator and it's infrastructure is still state of the art! as mentioned before, we tested a couple of iPhones 4 here in Switzerland, on two operators now (Swisscom and Orange), no problem at all!! So why should Apple change something ? can't understand the logic here...
Back to high school government class for you.
Have you actually read past my first sentence ?
Have you actually read past my first sentence ?
Have you actually read the agreement one acknowledges with Apple when they sign up for an account on their forums? How about this forum? Or any forum?
Sorry but a cheap Toyota vs any American auto in the sameprice classis going to get spanked by Toyota. You have to spend $45,000 or more for a decent US auto and even then, your 45,000 is getting you a $25k car.
I know this is deviating form the point, but I'll call that bet. Name the $25k Japanese car and the $45k U.S. made car and "no" you can't compare the Toyota Prius to the Chevrolet Volt (two different technologies). Walk the walk, as the saying goes.
Apple has every right to delete threads pointing to the obviously biased consumer reports article. The article cites results from tests that in no way mimic real life situations. No one who actually owns an iPhone experiences these symptoms. Anyone who says otherwise is either a troll or an android plant.
Pure speculation on your part. How can you say "No one who actually owns an iPhone experiences these symptoms"? You don't speak for me and I do own the faulty thing. Consumer reports is spot on dude. Such a fanboy.....
This is turning into a PR nightmare. If Apple wouldn't have jumped into the stupidity of denial mode to begin with, this would not be a big deal. If they would have simply said "we'll look into the reports" instead of making all the stupid remarks they've made, and offer free bumpers to any iPhone 4 owner who wants one, there would be no PR problem. Way to screw up the biggest product launch in their history.
The reality is, there is a problem, but it's also easily fixed. Apple just needs to pull their heads out of the sand and get to it already. The external side of the antennas need a non-conductive coating applied. That's it! Dang it, get it done already! Sheesh.
When it comes right down to it, the only company that's even been able to hurt Apple is Apple. Unfortunately they've been very adept at it throughout their history.
Pure speculation on your part. How can you say "No one who actually owns an iPhone experiences these symptoms"? You don't speak for me and I do own the faulty thing. Consumer reports is spot on dude. Such a fanboy.....
I don't believe your device is faulty, you just do not have the possibility to check it with another operator.. In Europe, not one phone has a problem.. We don't believe tha iPhones are the problem, the operator is...
Good engineering practice is to give the scope of your review. If you like the display, comment on that. If you like the battery life, comment on that. Take measurements.
But CR went several steps too far; they said that all phones drop bars when the phone is held, and that the iPhone 4 behaved similarily. This was obviously NOT THE TRUTH - that is a lie, or a very gross assumption.
Face it, CR grabbed a hypothesis from a dark and unsanitary place and plastered that hypothesis as fact - now they are eating that hypothesis and their credability as a legimate reviewing magazine is understandably being called into question.
This 180 degree (Oh Crap!!) change in review is pretty much inexcuseable for a magazine that is sold as an unbiased, honest, ad-free, engineering based assessment of all consumer goods. They went from a thumbs-up to a thumbs-down in a matter of weeks.
Heads are probably already rolling out the door.
More likely, the first time they tested it on perceived audio quality, the second time by measuring the dB drop. If the phone copes well on a low signal as found by AnandTech this is not too surprising.
we live in Switzerland, altough the iPhone 4 is not officially available here, we drove quickly over to France and bought a couple of iPhone 4. We came back and tested them really hard... especially we tested this reception issue and we have no issues here. We use to touch it around the antenna, we even touched it with our tongue ! nothing... it works, no issues here...
We think you have a problem with the operator, in Switzerland there is absolutely no signal issues and dropped calls, nothing! Try to think out of the box and try it outside the US and you'll see it works perfectly.. and most of all, own one before you shout here !!!! The iPhone 4 has absolutely no problem, nothing!
Don't mind. The more the americans return their iPhones to Apple, the faster its availability will improve elsewhere in the world, and sooner I'll be able to get iP4s for the rest of my family which is spread all over the "rest of the world", where reception is not a problem.
I don't believe your device is faulty, you just do not have the possibility to check it with another operator.. In Europe, not one phone has a problem.. We don't believe tha iPhones are the problem, the operator is...
Your moniker is a bit of an oxymorom, isn't it?
However, there are too many NOT experiencing it for it to be a clear-cut pheomenon impacting everyone. In fact, many people - including myself - are seeing improved service and loving everything about the device!
The AT&T service area doesn't seem to matter, either. Some people in good service areas get it, some in bad service areas (I.e. San Francisco) don't.
I think the problem is with variations in people's hands. Some sweat a lot and some don't. Perhaps those who do are affected and those who don't are not?
In any case, the simple solution of buying a $30 bumper case seems to solve the problem for all. I didn't have any problem, but after a near death experience where I dropped my phone, fortunately without damage, i practically ran to the Apple Store and bought the case. I hated previous iPhone cases but really love this one, since they deftly added controls to the outside, making it a lot like having no case at all.
The phone is just plain amazing and I think you're nuts to return it without trying the case solution. I do think Apple should give away cases to those impacted by the problem. But I think Consumer Reports is making a mountain out of a molehill, and I am disappointed with how they handled the situation.
D
Good.
Consumer Report is flip-flopping, praising the iPhone one minute, then dismissing it, then doing some sleight-of-hand back-pedaling. There's no need to entertain any of that. Apple has every right to delete that nonsense from their own boards.
Yeah!
Consumer Reports is full of shit!
Unless they're praising Apple!
BUT if it is, then fix it FAST!!!
Sorry man, dead wrong.
The first amendment applies only to the government's attitude towards what is and is not legally allowed to be spoken and expressed. It has no relation whatsoever to what a private individual or organization allows or does not allow on their own private property.
Back to high school government class for you.
Actually, political speech in the workplace is protected by the first amendment, so it does affect what is allowed on private property to that extent.
But, Apple has always deleted rant threads for as long as they've had support forums. They are support forums, and Apple doesn't fund them so people can come in and trash its products, there are plenty of other venues for that, like AI. That they deleted these doesn't really mean anything since deleting rant threads is a long-time policy, and these it seems were all basically rant threads.
Lest anyone think me a troll or fanboy, here's my post from earlier today on Marketwatch:
"It's nice to finally have an independent (sort of) testing agency validate my comments, which I've been making since around June 24th or so. People have accused me of:
Never owning an iPhone 4 (have since June 23rd)
Not knowing anything about research (I've done over 20 years of same)
Being an Apple hater (have almost 100% of my stock in Apple, and have since before the ip4 was released, and still own it today, so why would I broadcast this info to the world?)
It's all in my head, and can't be repeatable (demonstrated to Apple folks and ATT folks within one block of each store, and have been able to demonstrate it at will anyplace
Refusing to use a bumper to take care of a design flaw (guilty as charged here, I suppose)
Not knowing how to hold it (wait -- I don't know how to hold it to NOT get it to do this? - now I'm confused.
One thing is for sure - if Jobs can't fix this (hardware, not magic software), then my net worth will be coming down as fast as the "more bars in less places" ads that ATT wisely chose to ax (maybe they knew all along - nah, that's just crazy talk)"
None of the seasoned posters are accusing you, however. That's what matters most.
More likely, the first time they tested it on perceived audio quality, the second time by measuring the dB drop. If the phone copes well on a low signal as found by AnandTech this is not too surprising.
That's fair enough, but AnandTech only drove around the one town.
Apple has every right to delete threads pointing to the obviously biased consumer reports article. The article cites results from tests that in no way mimic real life situations. No one who actually owns an iPhone experiences these symptoms. Anyone who says otherwise is either a troll or an android plant.
am not a troll or a plant, but did have serious signal problems when held in my left hand, which is how I use the phone with apps, but not calls. I bought a bumper, and its pretty much cured the problem, I had intended to get a bumper anyway, but its still £25.00 that I had to spend to fix the problem.
Calling everyone who has an issue a troll or a plant is not the answer. If it had bothered me that much I would have returned the phone, as it was I made the choice to spend some more and fix it myself.
I don't however think that there is a justification for a class action that just the lawyers trying it on.