I tested 4 phones in the same locations and the same locations while making and recieving a simple phone call. ONLY the iPhone 4G(iP4) would drop calls based on how it was held. That is my real world expeiences and that is why I switched to the EVO.
I tested iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS and the iP4 and for conext around all smartphones have this issue I tested a HTC EVO.
I test them at my home and around my town (Mesa, Arizona). I could re produce the signal loss issue for the Apple store manager (Chad) near my home. BUT the iP4 was ther only phone tested that would drop call no matter how many bars were displayed or what the signal strength was at the time the test was done. The iP4 was the only one to drop call or lose signal strength. That was my experience based on my normal real world experiences. Now I am not bashing Apple..... I love Apple products and will continue to buy them........
Thanks for answering my post! Though, it was unnecessary, as you answered it several times while being raked over the coals. You get the "AttaBoy" for sticking your guns (and facts) while maintaining your temper.
The "DumbShit" goes to...
The one other thing I will add is that there were a few posts where users had a 3G or 3GS side-by-side with an iP4, in a marginal signal area. One user said he would make the call on the 3GS and the bars would drop, then the 3GS would switch Edge.
He would make a similar call on the iP4 and the bars would drop, and to paraphrase: "the iP4 would really, really try to hold onto the 3G signal! It would never switch to Edge but would drop the call."
It was repeatable!
That sounds to me like a bug in the software that: analyzes signal strength; determines when to handoff from 3G to Edge (or vice versa); actually switches radio signals.
Actually, this is exactly what T-Mobile does. You can choose a subsidized phone plan and pay more per month on a 2-year contract, or choose to pay less per month and have no contract, but you buy your phone unlocked for full price.
I personally like buying the phone outright, unlocked, and not being locked into a contract. With a subsidized plan, the only realistic way to get your money out of it is to always buy the most expensive phone available every two years, whether you want it or not, and sell it on Ebay. You're essentially paying for that most expensive phone with your monthly bill anyway, so you had better get your money's worth.
Interesting. What's the difference in cost of the monthly charges?
What all these phone makers are really upset about is that Steve Jobs pulled the curtain back on things they would rather not have the public know about. And if they hadn't piled on Apple, they would not have been dragged into the controversy.
That doesn't mean that Apple isn't also trying to cover it's butt after releasing a phone with a somewhat oversensitive -- or "defective" as some may call it -- antenna. But, they were totally justified in showing how other phones also experience a loss in signal quality when held.
I can't really answer which is which, but I have a picture and some possible ways Apple could modify future antennas to mitigate the problem:
.
The lengths of the two antennas are critical. The length of an antenna element tunes it to the frequencies it receives. So you can't just deaden part of one antenna. You also can't move the "3G" gap without also moving the (real) gap at the other end of the two antennas. However, there might be different locations for the gaps (keeping the antenna lengths the same) which make it less likely they will be bridged when holding the phone.
Thanks for answering my post! Though, it was unnecessary, as you answered it several times while being raked over the coals. You get the "AttaBoy" for sticking your guns (and facts) while maintaining your temper.
The "DumbShit" goes to...
The one other thing I will add is that there were a few posts where users had a 3G or 3GS side-by-side with an iP4, in a marginal signal area. One user said he would make the call on the 3GS and the bars would drop, then the 3GS would switch Edge.
He would make a similar call on the iP4 and the bars would drop, and to paraphrase: "the iP4 would really, really try to hold onto the 3G signal! It would never switch to Edge but would drop the call."
It was repeatable!
That sounds to me like a bug in the software that: analyzes signal strength; determines when to handoff from 3G to Edge (or vice versa); actually switches radio signals.
.
Ah, so the phone is ignoring a whole other network it could carry the call on. That IS a software bug. If they got that working as it should be, then it sounds like it would alleviate the dropped call problem tremendously.
I'm sure the people at Apple are on top of this if it turns out to be the case though. We'll just wait and see.
What all these phone makers are really upset about is that Steve Jobs pulled the curtain back on things they would rather not have the public know about.
Well, not really. I mean, who hasn't used a cellphone and noticed signal attenuation? The bars go up and down -- sometimes depending on where you stand. Yes, and also how you hold the phone. This isn't news to anyone who's used a cellphone. That's why Apple's attempt to use it as cover for their "self-inflicted problem" was simple deflection.
Sure it's nice that they've taken steps to help their customers. But the flaw remains. Even with the flaw, it's a great phone. But why leave the flaw? Is it some sort of philosophical thing, like a Persian rug?
Quote:
The legend behind the phrase "Persian flaw" goes that in ancient times, Persian rug makers were deeply religious and believed that only God could make something perfect. They would deliberately drop in a small faulty stitch, a flaw, into each Persian rug. In doing so, a ?Persian Flaw? revealed the rug maker?s devotion to God.
Wow, I was reading some comments here and I realized that they are a lot of people which are really "Apple Fans". Ok, with Fans you cannot go into discussion, they are just "Fans".
But keep a point in mind, if you are a hard core Fan you just are not helping Apple. They make a mistake, a bad antenna design, they need to know that in order to avoid future mistakes, that is everything about.
Being critic don't necessary means that you are an enemy .
Don't make from this forum the Tea Party of Apple products
"If I?m mindful of how I?m holding the phone it?s not an issue, and even most of the time if I?m not paying attention to it it?s not an issue. However there are definitely times when it does become a problem. I wouldn?t consider it to be the majority of the time or even more than 10% of the time, but it happens enough for me to have to think about it. Ultimately this is why I consider Apple?s design here to be unnecessarily risky."
If what you come away from that self-admitted non-scientific test and article is that the iP4 does not drop low signal calls momre frequently than the 3G/GS, well, no sense continuing on on.
Which I have done for each of your bullshit comments.
Maybe I really am crazy, and my perception of a rational position is wrong, in which case it's out of my control and I'll always be irrational.
Either way, I think I could have taken a far more extreme stance on this issue and you would have treated me in the same regard since it simply is different than yours. Doesn't matter how different, my point of view is just different.
You're not crazy, though maybe a bit for putting up with as much of his crap as you already have. LOL
The lengths of the two antennas are critical. The length of an antenna element tunes it to the frequencies it receives. So you can't just deaden part of one antenna. You also can't move the "3G" gap without also moving the (real) gap at the other end of the two antennas. However, there might be different locations for the gaps (keeping the antenna lengths the same) which make it less likely they will be bridged when holding the phone.
Ahh... good to know.
If the band were wider or thicker could the length be shorter?
I don't believe either/both would detract from the look and feel of the device.
well |I just retired my 3g (after putting 4.0 on it ,, it lagged bad),,iphone 4 looks to apple restrictive,, went droid,, and the choices and layout is unlimited,, like a burden has been lifted, all web pages and emails open fully,,, i got the xperia x10,, ive tried everything to have signal drop,, no dice,, so my response to mr. jobs is that not all phones have the deficiencies of your product,, and your rush to make your products obsolete by rushing products out on one end and holding back other parts,,,
the more this happens the more apple is going to get caught with there pants down,,
im not a apple hater,,, but i am apple discouraged with the attitude of late
But you didn't try the iPhone 4. I'm glad the droid works for you, but I have an iPhone 4, and this so-called signal drop issue is a complete non-issue. Consider that before you rush to judge. I can't even reproduce a signal drop on demand, and when it does drop, it drops only 1 bar (5 to 4). It has never failed to place a call, and I have never had a call drop yet.
Apple's attitude is that the issue affects a very small percentage of users, and their own data supports that. They waived the restocking fee. They listened to media wags who suggested Apple should give away bumpers. Steve said Friday "we love all of our customers and we want to make them happy." So what is it about Apple's attitude that discourages you? What would you like to see Apple do, overreact? Recall every iPhone and redesign the whole thing over something affecting a small percentage of users? You didn't even give iPhone 4 a chance did you? You just listened to the loudest mouths on the Intertubes...
Interesting. What's the difference in cost of the monthly charges?
Depends on the plan options, for my talk+text+data 2-person family plan, it's $109 vs $139, so $20 a month cheaper. So after 2 years you save an extra $480 towards an unlocked phone.
Just checked and an individual plan with data starts at $59 no subsidy vs. $79 with subsidy (and contract).
Thanks for answering my post! Though, it was unnecessary, as you answered it several times while being raked over the coals. You get the "AttaBoy" for sticking your guns (and facts) while maintaining your temper.
The "DumbShit" goes to...
The one other thing I will add is that there were a few posts where users had a 3G or 3GS side-by-side with an iP4, in a marginal signal area. One user said he would make the call on the 3GS and the bars would drop, then the 3GS would switch Edge.
He would make a similar call on the iP4 and the bars would drop, and to paraphrase: "the iP4 would really, really try to hold onto the 3G signal! It would never switch to Edge but would drop the call."
It was repeatable!
That sounds to me like a bug in the software that: analyzes signal strength; determines when to handoff from 3G to Edge (or vice versa); actually switches radio signals.
.
At the Apple store I went to near my home. The store manager (Chad) spent about 2 hours putting my iPhone 4 through all kinds of test. We restored it to factory then applied my settings all the while testing it....Two things worked. One one downgrading the phone to Edge. That solved the issue. Also putting the phone in a case solved the issue as well. I didn't want a slower phone and I don't use cases on my phones.....so they were not resolutions that I felt were acceptable to me.
But you didn't try the iPhone 4. I'm glad the droid works for you, but I have an iPhone 4, and this so-called signal drop issue is a complete non-issue. Consider that before you rush to judge. I can't even reproduce a signal drop on demand, and when it does drop, it drops only 1 bar (5 to 4). It has never failed to place a call, and I have never had a call drop yet.
Apple's attitude is that the issue affects a very small percentage of users, and their own data supports that. They waived the restocking fee. They listened to media wags who suggested Apple should give away bumpers. Steve said Friday "we love all of our customers and we want to make them happy." So what is it about Apple's attitude that discourages you? What would you like to see Apple do, overreact? Recall every iPhone and redesign the whole thing over something affecting a small percentage of users? You didn't even give iPhone 4 a chance did you? You just listened to the loudest mouths on the Intertubes...
Sounds like you have good signal. What kind of download speeds are you seeing from AT&T's network?
It's very simple, really. I would trust the more rigorous testing over your "real world" experience, which contains few data points, was carried out under uncontrolled conditions, and is subject to a huge range of possible factors of which I have no knowledge. My own testing would carry more weight for me. I would not expect my testing to carry any weight for you. You ought not expect your testing to be of any importance to anyone else, besides, perhaps, being an interesting tale.
WELL I DISAGREE WITH YOU WHOLEHEARTEDLY. I f Apple had done more "real world" testing with the iPhone 4 as the final product looked like they would have discovered this issue and dealt with it......You can't reproduce the real world in a lab or text book or whatever. You just gotta try it the exact environment you will be using the product.
Comments
I tested 4 phones in the same locations and the same locations while making and recieving a simple phone call. ONLY the iPhone 4G(iP4) would drop calls based on how it was held. That is my real world expeiences and that is why I switched to the EVO.
I tested iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS and the iP4 and for conext around all smartphones have this issue I tested a HTC EVO.
I test them at my home and around my town (Mesa, Arizona). I could re produce the signal loss issue for the Apple store manager (Chad) near my home. BUT the iP4 was ther only phone tested that would drop call no matter how many bars were displayed or what the signal strength was at the time the test was done. The iP4 was the only one to drop call or lose signal strength. That was my experience based on my normal real world experiences. Now I am not bashing Apple..... I love Apple products and will continue to buy them........
Thanks for answering my post! Though, it was unnecessary, as you answered it several times while being raked over the coals. You get the "AttaBoy" for sticking your guns (and facts) while maintaining your temper.
The "DumbShit" goes to...
The one other thing I will add is that there were a few posts where users had a 3G or 3GS side-by-side with an iP4, in a marginal signal area. One user said he would make the call on the 3GS and the bars would drop, then the 3GS would switch Edge.
He would make a similar call on the iP4 and the bars would drop, and to paraphrase: "the iP4 would really, really try to hold onto the 3G signal! It would never switch to Edge but would drop the call."
It was repeatable!
That sounds to me like a bug in the software that: analyzes signal strength; determines when to handoff from 3G to Edge (or vice versa); actually switches radio signals.
.
Actually, this is exactly what T-Mobile does. You can choose a subsidized phone plan and pay more per month on a 2-year contract, or choose to pay less per month and have no contract, but you buy your phone unlocked for full price.
I personally like buying the phone outright, unlocked, and not being locked into a contract. With a subsidized plan, the only realistic way to get your money out of it is to always buy the most expensive phone available every two years, whether you want it or not, and sell it on Ebay. You're essentially paying for that most expensive phone with your monthly bill anyway, so you had better get your money's worth.
Interesting. What's the difference in cost of the monthly charges?
That doesn't mean that Apple isn't also trying to cover it's butt after releasing a phone with a somewhat oversensitive -- or "defective" as some may call it -- antenna. But, they were totally justified in showing how other phones also experience a loss in signal quality when held.
.
I can't really answer which is which, but I have a picture and some possible ways Apple could modify future antennas to mitigate the problem:
.
The lengths of the two antennas are critical. The length of an antenna element tunes it to the frequencies it receives. So you can't just deaden part of one antenna. You also can't move the "3G" gap without also moving the (real) gap at the other end of the two antennas. However, there might be different locations for the gaps (keeping the antenna lengths the same) which make it less likely they will be bridged when holding the phone.
So, is the slot on the right side only there for aesthetic symmetry? It doesn't completely bisect the metal.
It appears so!
.
Thanks for answering my post! Though, it was unnecessary, as you answered it several times while being raked over the coals. You get the "AttaBoy" for sticking your guns (and facts) while maintaining your temper.
The "DumbShit" goes to...
The one other thing I will add is that there were a few posts where users had a 3G or 3GS side-by-side with an iP4, in a marginal signal area. One user said he would make the call on the 3GS and the bars would drop, then the 3GS would switch Edge.
He would make a similar call on the iP4 and the bars would drop, and to paraphrase: "the iP4 would really, really try to hold onto the 3G signal! It would never switch to Edge but would drop the call."
It was repeatable!
That sounds to me like a bug in the software that: analyzes signal strength; determines when to handoff from 3G to Edge (or vice versa); actually switches radio signals.
.
Ah, so the phone is ignoring a whole other network it could carry the call on. That IS a software bug. If they got that working as it should be, then it sounds like it would alleviate the dropped call problem tremendously.
I'm sure the people at Apple are on top of this if it turns out to be the case though. We'll just wait and see.
What all these phone makers are really upset about is that Steve Jobs pulled the curtain back on things they would rather not have the public know about.
Well, not really. I mean, who hasn't used a cellphone and noticed signal attenuation? The bars go up and down -- sometimes depending on where you stand. Yes, and also how you hold the phone. This isn't news to anyone who's used a cellphone. That's why Apple's attempt to use it as cover for their "self-inflicted problem" was simple deflection.
Sure it's nice that they've taken steps to help their customers. But the flaw remains. Even with the flaw, it's a great phone. But why leave the flaw? Is it some sort of philosophical thing, like a Persian rug?
The legend behind the phrase "Persian flaw" goes that in ancient times, Persian rug makers were deeply religious and believed that only God could make something perfect. They would deliberately drop in a small faulty stitch, a flaw, into each Persian rug. In doing so, a ?Persian Flaw? revealed the rug maker?s devotion to God.
But keep a point in mind, if you are a hard core Fan you just are not helping Apple. They make a mistake, a bad antenna design, they need to know that in order to avoid future mistakes, that is everything about.
Being critic don't necessary means that you are an enemy .
Don't make from this forum the Tea Party of Apple products
For one, the AnandTech testing.
Oh good grief.
"If I?m mindful of how I?m holding the phone it?s not an issue, and even most of the time if I?m not paying attention to it it?s not an issue. However there are definitely times when it does become a problem. I wouldn?t consider it to be the majority of the time or even more than 10% of the time, but it happens enough for me to have to think about it. Ultimately this is why I consider Apple?s design here to be unnecessarily risky."
If what you come away from that self-admitted non-scientific test and article is that the iP4 does not drop low signal calls momre frequently than the 3G/GS, well, no sense continuing on on.
Which I have done for each of your bullshit comments.
Maybe I really am crazy, and my perception of a rational position is wrong, in which case it's out of my control and I'll always be irrational.
Either way, I think I could have taken a far more extreme stance on this issue and you would have treated me in the same regard since it simply is different than yours. Doesn't matter how different, my point of view is just different.
You're not crazy, though maybe a bit for putting up with as much of his crap as you already have. LOL
The lengths of the two antennas are critical. The length of an antenna element tunes it to the frequencies it receives. So you can't just deaden part of one antenna. You also can't move the "3G" gap without also moving the (real) gap at the other end of the two antennas. However, there might be different locations for the gaps (keeping the antenna lengths the same) which make it less likely they will be bridged when holding the phone.
Ahh... good to know.
If the band were wider or thicker could the length be shorter?
I don't believe either/both would detract from the look and feel of the device.
.
1. common to every smart phones. (when a phone is grabbed in certain way, loses signal)
2. self-created problem by exposing its antenna to be touched directly by human hands.
the 2nd issue can be proven by the fact that they give out free bumpers and
by not allowing antenna to be touched directly by hands, there is a bit of reception improvement.
that improvement ultimately means that Apple is doing WORSE than other smartphone companies
due to their STUPID ANTENNA DESIGN, yet they do NOT ADMIT it.
and distorts the reality by emphasizing only on the common issue (issue no.1 above).
...
then apple fanboys think oh apple iphone 4 problem is common to every smart phones.
NO. there is more to that than just one that is shared by all.
Wake me up when some iPhone 5 rumors show up...
the 2nd issue can be proven by the fact that they give out free bumpers
Wrong. They gave out free bumpers because they love their customers and want them all to be happy.
didn't you watch the press release?
Wrong. They gave out free bumpers because they love their customers and want them all to be happy.
didn't you watch the press release?
and you believe that excuse.
take a look at anandtech review page 2.
19.8 -> 7.2 improvement.
well |I just retired my 3g (after putting 4.0 on it ,, it lagged bad),,iphone 4 looks to apple restrictive,, went droid,, and the choices and layout is unlimited,, like a burden has been lifted, all web pages and emails open fully,,, i got the xperia x10,, ive tried everything to have signal drop,, no dice,, so my response to mr. jobs is that not all phones have the deficiencies of your product,, and your rush to make your products obsolete by rushing products out on one end and holding back other parts,,,
the more this happens the more apple is going to get caught with there pants down,,
im not a apple hater,,, but i am apple discouraged with the attitude of late
But you didn't try the iPhone 4. I'm glad the droid works for you, but I have an iPhone 4, and this so-called signal drop issue is a complete non-issue. Consider that before you rush to judge. I can't even reproduce a signal drop on demand, and when it does drop, it drops only 1 bar (5 to 4). It has never failed to place a call, and I have never had a call drop yet.
Apple's attitude is that the issue affects a very small percentage of users, and their own data supports that. They waived the restocking fee. They listened to media wags who suggested Apple should give away bumpers. Steve said Friday "we love all of our customers and we want to make them happy." So what is it about Apple's attitude that discourages you? What would you like to see Apple do, overreact? Recall every iPhone and redesign the whole thing over something affecting a small percentage of users? You didn't even give iPhone 4 a chance did you? You just listened to the loudest mouths on the Intertubes...
Interesting. What's the difference in cost of the monthly charges?
Depends on the plan options, for my talk+text+data 2-person family plan, it's $109 vs $139, so $20 a month cheaper. So after 2 years you save an extra $480 towards an unlocked phone.
Just checked and an individual plan with data starts at $59 no subsidy vs. $79 with subsidy (and contract).
Thanks for answering my post! Though, it was unnecessary, as you answered it several times while being raked over the coals. You get the "AttaBoy" for sticking your guns (and facts) while maintaining your temper.
The "DumbShit" goes to...
The one other thing I will add is that there were a few posts where users had a 3G or 3GS side-by-side with an iP4, in a marginal signal area. One user said he would make the call on the 3GS and the bars would drop, then the 3GS would switch Edge.
He would make a similar call on the iP4 and the bars would drop, and to paraphrase: "the iP4 would really, really try to hold onto the 3G signal! It would never switch to Edge but would drop the call."
It was repeatable!
That sounds to me like a bug in the software that: analyzes signal strength; determines when to handoff from 3G to Edge (or vice versa); actually switches radio signals.
.
At the Apple store I went to near my home. The store manager (Chad) spent about 2 hours putting my iPhone 4 through all kinds of test. We restored it to factory then applied my settings all the while testing it....Two things worked. One one downgrading the phone to Edge. That solved the issue. Also putting the phone in a case solved the issue as well. I didn't want a slower phone and I don't use cases on my phones.....so they were not resolutions that I felt were acceptable to me.
But you didn't try the iPhone 4. I'm glad the droid works for you, but I have an iPhone 4, and this so-called signal drop issue is a complete non-issue. Consider that before you rush to judge. I can't even reproduce a signal drop on demand, and when it does drop, it drops only 1 bar (5 to 4). It has never failed to place a call, and I have never had a call drop yet.
Apple's attitude is that the issue affects a very small percentage of users, and their own data supports that. They waived the restocking fee. They listened to media wags who suggested Apple should give away bumpers. Steve said Friday "we love all of our customers and we want to make them happy." So what is it about Apple's attitude that discourages you? What would you like to see Apple do, overreact? Recall every iPhone and redesign the whole thing over something affecting a small percentage of users? You didn't even give iPhone 4 a chance did you? You just listened to the loudest mouths on the Intertubes...
Sounds like you have good signal. What kind of download speeds are you seeing from AT&T's network?
It's very simple, really. I would trust the more rigorous testing over your "real world" experience, which contains few data points, was carried out under uncontrolled conditions, and is subject to a huge range of possible factors of which I have no knowledge. My own testing would carry more weight for me. I would not expect my testing to carry any weight for you. You ought not expect your testing to be of any importance to anyone else, besides, perhaps, being an interesting tale.
WELL I DISAGREE WITH YOU WHOLEHEARTEDLY. I f Apple had done more "real world" testing with the iPhone 4 as the final product looked like they would have discovered this issue and dealt with it......You can't reproduce the real world in a lab or text book or whatever. You just gotta try it the exact environment you will be using the product.