Depends on the plan options, for my talk+text+data 2-person family plan, it's $109 vs $139, so $20 a month cheaper. So after 2 years you save an extra $480 towards an unlocked phone.
Just checked and an individual plan with data starts at $59 no subsidy vs. $79 with subsidy (and contract).
Thanks for the info. It doesn't quite pay for an iPhone in 24 months. So I guess the subsidy is better if you plan to get a new phone every two years. AT&T offered to update my iPhone from 3GS to iP4 for eighteen dollars extra early upgrade fee after only one year. But I'm paying over $100 per month.
At the Apple store I went to near my home. The store manager (Chad) spent about 2 hours putting my iPhone 4 through all kinds of test. We restored it to factory then applied my settings all the while testing it....Two things worked. One one downgrading the phone to Edge. That solved the issue. Also putting the phone in a case solved the issue as well. I didn't want a slower phone and I don't use cases on my phones.....so they were not resolutions that I felt were acceptable to me.
So I am sure I understand: The first fix was to turn 3G off and make the call on Edge. This resulted in no dropped calls-- there was no attempted handoff from 3G to Edge or Edge to 3G? Correct?
One of the posters I referred to, was able to eliminate his dropped calls by using the above procedures.
It is like they put it in the worst possible spot for how people grab it.
...I can't really answer which is which, but I have a picture and some possible ways Apple could modify future antennas to mitigate the problem:
Bear in mind deciding where to locate an antenna's terminations is far from a trivial decision. Despite the fact there is no known correlation (yet) between cell phone use and cancer, no phone manufacturer designs the radiator near the skull - think liability. Every phone I know of today emits the most RF energy at its lowest point, which explains covering the base of most phones with one's palm causes signal degradation. The iP4 is no different. I'm sure Apple did extensive research to determine RF energy absorption near the user's brain is low enough to satisfy their attorneys.
Despite this, I expect Apple will relocate the "x marks the spot" spot in some later iteration. Perhaps they'll even put a decoy "x" somewhere just to mess with the whiners But engineering the antenna will involve much more than essentially rotating it around the case, making the user less likely to touch where it ought not be touched.
As a side note, every phone I've used in the past four years - which pretty much includes all phones with an integral antenna, as opposed to a stub or protruding antenna - has a label or user's guide entry that points out the area of the phone not to cover, "for best results". It's always at the bottom, and covering it always results in some degree of signal degradation - including complete signal loss if you're near a cell's fringes. Apple doesn't do labels - lest they start to look like a "Intel Inside" "Win 7 Ready" ad nauseum PC.
Strange that I never gave it any thought until this iP4 issue, but whenever I'm in a bar-challenged area, I've subconsciously adapted to holding my phone by two fingers near its top, leaving some "air" around the bottom where I know the antenna is. But my phone is two or three years old, and I don't care how silly I look when I use it.
So I am sure I understand: The first fix was to turn 3G off and make the call on Edge. This resulted in no dropped calls-- there was no attempted handoff from 3G to Edge or Edge to 3G? Correct?
One of the posters I referred to, was able to eliminate his dropped calls by using the above procedures.
TIA
Dick
.
Yessir...you are correct. If he made the phone a EDGE only device it worked perfectly.....
Apple's attitude is that the issue affects a very small percentage of users,
Exactly. While the issue affects only a very small percentage of iP4 users, it is also an issue with just about every single phone that everybody else uses.
Steve's presentation should put this whole issue to rest. His evidence is not able to be refuted.
Sounds like you have good signal. What kind of download speeds are you seeing from AT&T's network?
In Austin TX, at 12 noon, I was getting 2.6Mbps download, 1.24Mbps upload. I ran multiple tests back to back. Used the SpeedTest.Net app.
A month ago at the same time of day, my 3GS was getting 670Kbps down, 150Kbps up. The 3GS' numbers varied a lot, sometimes quite pathetic (18k down, 29k up was the worst).
The iPhone 4's overall performance on AT&T actually beat my WiFi numbers over my DOCSIS1.1 cable modem, before I upgraded to 15Mbps cable service!
Yessir...you are correct. If he made the phone a EDGE only device it worked perfectly.....
Thanks!
You, obviously, did the right thing for your needs.
I don't know what i'd have done if I were in the same situation. My heavy use of the phone is during soccer season (just started). I don't do a lot of uploads or downloads over any cell network-- some browsing, some YouTube vids-- but mainly phone calls.
The case doesn't bother me-- I need it to protect the device.
I love the camera on the iP4 and the iMove app. There is a possibility I can use the iP4 to replace one of the cameras I take to soccer practices/games.
So, I would have the luxury of using 3G (where available) because of the case. Also, I have an iPad with 3G so if the iPhone balks I can use the iPad for data. browsing, etc.-- everything but phone calls.
I suspect, that I would have kept the iP4 with the 3G deficiency and hopped for a software fix to resolve the issue-- who knows?
In Austin TX, at 12 noon, I was getting 2.6Mbps download, 1.24Mbps upload. I ran multiple tests back to back. Used the SpeedTest.Net app.
A month ago at the same time of day, my 3GS was getting 670Kbps down, 150Kbps up. The 3GS' numbers varied a lot, sometimes quite pathetic (18k down, 29k up was the worst).
The iPhone 4's overall performance on AT&T actually beat my WiFi numbers over my DOCSIS1.1 cable modem, before I upgraded to 15Mbps cable service!
I've had similar results on the iP4-- way better than the 3GS and often better than WiFi. Several times, upload was faster than download.
I have found that if you get poor or sporadic results, changing the test server can help.
Well, not really. I mean, who hasn't used a cellphone and noticed signal attenuation? The bars go up and down -- sometimes depending on where you stand. Yes, and also how you hold the phone. This isn't news to anyone who's used a cellphone. That's why Apple's attempt to use it as cover for their "self-inflicted problem" was simple deflection.
Sure it's nice that they've taken steps to help their customers. But the flaw remains. Even with the flaw, it's a great phone. But why leave the flaw? Is it some sort of philosophical thing, like a Persian rug?
I liked your clever comparison to a Persian rug.
For the record, I own a 3G iPhone (which is not happy with iOS 4), not an iPhone 4. If the signal attenuation isn't a "flaw" in other phones, why is it a flaw in Apple's phone being that they all experience the same thing at varying degrees? Is it because Apple's phone has this "flaw" to a greater degree than other phones? If so, doesn't the fact that Apple's new iPhone has a lot better reception overall kind of cancel out the higher degree of signal attenuation it experiences?
I have no stake in one side or the other of this argument, I plan to upgrade to an iPhone 4 either way. To me, I think it's all moot because the iPhone 4 has stronger reception which seems to be cancelled out by the strong signal attenuation problems if you are in a weak-signal area.
well |I just retired my 3g (after putting 4.0 on it ,, it lagged bad),,iphone 4 looks to apple restrictive,, went droid,, and the choices and layout is unlimited,, like a burden has been lifted, all web pages and emails open fully,,, i got the xperia x10,, ive tried everything to have signal drop,, no dice,, so my response to mr. jobs is that not all phones have the deficiencies of your product,, and your rush to make your products obsolete by rushing products out on one end and holding back other parts,,,
the more this happens the more apple is going to get caught with there pants down,,
im not a apple hater,,, but i am apple discouraged with the attitude of late
Well, cgrisar, I was responding to the particularly obnoxious post that I have quoted above, and was unaware that I am only allowed to do so if using perfect punctuation. Thank you for pointing that out through the thinly veiled irony of your own post. It was most certainly my unawareness that had caused the unfortunate mistakes spotted by you, and not a malfunction of my keyboard, as you seem to believe.
I shall not correct my older post, for I want it to serve as a painful reminder of my lacking knowledge of English grammar. We can all try a little bit harder to improve this forum.
For example, whenever we choose to behave like asshats and write snotty posts, we can remember the closing quotation marks at the end of a sentence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar
You'd better check your keyboard as well.
You should have had a comma between 'Well' and 'we'.
Further, your 'I' and 't' seem to be canceling each other out. Shouldn't it be 'It seems like...
Oh Jeez, AI trying to make a ludicrous comparison between the odd possibility that you grap that HTC Droid Eris by the UPPER extremity of the phone to the -rather natural- BOTTOM left iPhone 4's death grip... I know that the ridicule does not kill, it can just makes you look silly and intellectually dishonest.
In other news, if you remove back cover from Nokia E63 and manage to squeeze all 10 fingers on its antenna, it will significantly drop signal strength.
There you go. Steve is right. Again.
(Of course they are dishonest. They are fan/worshiper/extremist site. Give them some credit - they only protect what they love. Like mother duck protect her ducklings)
And this just in from the National Pancake Institute: Waffles Suck!
Wake me up when some iPhone 5 rumors show up...
Here's your first one - it's being released as the iPhone 4G since it will be 4G capable, and I assume that means it'll also have a worldphone 'big brother' called the iPhone 4G-Dubya.
WELL I DISAGREE WITH YOU WHOLEHEARTEDLY. I f Apple had done more "real world" testing with the iPhone 4 as the final product looked like they would have discovered this issue and dealt with it......You can't reproduce the real world in a lab or text book or whatever. You just gotta try it the exact environment you will be using the product.
I know you want your testing to be recognized as something important, and it is for you, but in the larger scheme of things it simply isn't. Your informal "field testing" simply isn't meaningful to anyone but you. And, frankly, you are a bit ridiculous when you insist that Apple didn't do any field testing, or that yours equates with theirs. The difference is that real field testing is systematic and includes more than just taking a couple of phones outside and seeing if you can make the signal drop.
You're misrepresenting it because you know, I know, we all know about the bar algorithm issue, but you are pretending as though the pre-fix bars are indicative of how much signal the phone can lose, when we all know they are not. Maybe you're just a confused thinker, which I think is the case, but the whole thing about it "losing signal" without qualifying the statement, or quantifying how much, is a misrepresentation
The basic misrepresentation (not just from chronster) that flows through all these harangues (here and elsewhere) is that ALL iPHONES 4 DON'T WORK AS PHONES.
Not true - provably not true - yet the drumbeat goes on.
*SOME* iP4s have reception issues/signal-drop/whatever when their gap is fingered.
*SOME* of them don't have this problem AT ALL. Mine, for example. NO drops. At all. Anywhere. Bars or no bars. Before and after 4.0.1. No matter how I hold the bare phone.
Ergo:
- only *some* iPhones 4 have this issue;
- if *yours* has this issue, replace it - or return it & buy something else.
- claiming that ALL iP4s can't make/take/keep calls because you saw it on the yootubz is a lie.
You know....I just don't understand all of this fuss. People have been having problems with cell phone reception for as long as I can remember but never have they been so aggressive to a manufacturer. Before if a call dropped you would look at the phone, cuss the provider and then make another call.
It makes me wonder if Apple in now moving into the realm of Microsoft where because the company is so large and popular that they are scrutinized beyond belief and punished for a problem that has always been around?
I know I will probably get flak for this but I think its time the media just let this go now and lets move on. The phone works, reception is bad in low reception areas, a case helps reception and because of the stink made in the media and a handful of users Apple is giving away cases now. Problem solved until the phone is updated again.
Just my 2 cents.
Nice Post man.
And in my opinion all these competitors should really watch their mouth. It would be just like Apple to go back to the drawing board, invent a phone that has no Antenna weak spot what-so-ever (sorry but it just doesn't exist yet) and make all these other companies look like idiots for ever piping up in the first place.
Before, no-one thought twice about this. Now that the competition and media fueled this fire, it',s out in the open.. and when the next generation of Blackberries, nokia's and HTC's come off the assembly line, people are going to be feeling around for weak spots.
Comments
Depends on the plan options, for my talk+text+data 2-person family plan, it's $109 vs $139, so $20 a month cheaper. So after 2 years you save an extra $480 towards an unlocked phone.
Just checked and an individual plan with data starts at $59 no subsidy vs. $79 with subsidy (and contract).
Thanks for the info. It doesn't quite pay for an iPhone in 24 months. So I guess the subsidy is better if you plan to get a new phone every two years. AT&T offered to update my iPhone from 3GS to iP4 for eighteen dollars extra early upgrade fee after only one year. But I'm paying over $100 per month.
At the Apple store I went to near my home. The store manager (Chad) spent about 2 hours putting my iPhone 4 through all kinds of test. We restored it to factory then applied my settings all the while testing it....Two things worked. One one downgrading the phone to Edge. That solved the issue. Also putting the phone in a case solved the issue as well. I didn't want a slower phone and I don't use cases on my phones.....so they were not resolutions that I felt were acceptable to me.
So I am sure I understand: The first fix was to turn 3G off and make the call on Edge. This resulted in no dropped calls-- there was no attempted handoff from 3G to Edge or Edge to 3G? Correct?
One of the posters I referred to, was able to eliminate his dropped calls by using the above procedures.
TIA
Dick
.
It is like they put it in the worst possible spot for how people grab it.
...I can't really answer which is which, but I have a picture and some possible ways Apple could modify future antennas to mitigate the problem:
Bear in mind deciding where to locate an antenna's terminations is far from a trivial decision. Despite the fact there is no known correlation (yet) between cell phone use and cancer, no phone manufacturer designs the radiator near the skull - think liability. Every phone I know of today emits the most RF energy at its lowest point, which explains covering the base of most phones with one's palm causes signal degradation. The iP4 is no different. I'm sure Apple did extensive research to determine RF energy absorption near the user's brain is low enough to satisfy their attorneys.
Despite this, I expect Apple will relocate the "x marks the spot" spot in some later iteration. Perhaps they'll even put a decoy "x" somewhere just to mess with the whiners
As a side note, every phone I've used in the past four years - which pretty much includes all phones with an integral antenna, as opposed to a stub or protruding antenna - has a label or user's guide entry that points out the area of the phone not to cover, "for best results". It's always at the bottom, and covering it always results in some degree of signal degradation - including complete signal loss if you're near a cell's fringes. Apple doesn't do labels - lest they start to look like a "Intel Inside" "Win 7 Ready" ad nauseum PC.
Strange that I never gave it any thought until this iP4 issue, but whenever I'm in a bar-challenged area, I've subconsciously adapted to holding my phone by two fingers near its top, leaving some "air" around the bottom where I know the antenna is. But my phone is two or three years old, and I don't care how silly I look when I use it.
So I am sure I understand: The first fix was to turn 3G off and make the call on Edge. This resulted in no dropped calls-- there was no attempted handoff from 3G to Edge or Edge to 3G? Correct?
One of the posters I referred to, was able to eliminate his dropped calls by using the above procedures.
TIA
Dick
.
Yessir...you are correct. If he made the phone a EDGE only device it worked perfectly.....
Apple's attitude is that the issue affects a very small percentage of users,
Exactly. While the issue affects only a very small percentage of iP4 users, it is also an issue with just about every single phone that everybody else uses.
Steve's presentation should put this whole issue to rest. His evidence is not able to be refuted.
Sounds like you have good signal. What kind of download speeds are you seeing from AT&T's network?
In Austin TX, at 12 noon, I was getting 2.6Mbps download, 1.24Mbps upload. I ran multiple tests back to back. Used the SpeedTest.Net app.
A month ago at the same time of day, my 3GS was getting 670Kbps down, 150Kbps up. The 3GS' numbers varied a lot, sometimes quite pathetic (18k down, 29k up was the worst).
The iPhone 4's overall performance on AT&T actually beat my WiFi numbers over my DOCSIS1.1 cable modem, before I upgraded to 15Mbps cable service!
Yessir...you are correct. If he made the phone a EDGE only device it worked perfectly.....
Thanks!
You, obviously, did the right thing for your needs.
I don't know what i'd have done if I were in the same situation. My heavy use of the phone is during soccer season (just started). I don't do a lot of uploads or downloads over any cell network-- some browsing, some YouTube vids-- but mainly phone calls.
The case doesn't bother me-- I need it to protect the device.
I love the camera on the iP4 and the iMove app. There is a possibility I can use the iP4 to replace one of the cameras I take to soccer practices/games.
So, I would have the luxury of using 3G (where available) because of the case. Also, I have an iPad with 3G so if the iPhone balks I can use the iPad for data. browsing, etc.-- everything but phone calls.
I suspect, that I would have kept the iP4 with the 3G deficiency and hopped for a software fix to resolve the issue-- who knows?
.
In Austin TX, at 12 noon, I was getting 2.6Mbps download, 1.24Mbps upload. I ran multiple tests back to back. Used the SpeedTest.Net app.
A month ago at the same time of day, my 3GS was getting 670Kbps down, 150Kbps up. The 3GS' numbers varied a lot, sometimes quite pathetic (18k down, 29k up was the worst).
The iPhone 4's overall performance on AT&T actually beat my WiFi numbers over my DOCSIS1.1 cable modem, before I upgraded to 15Mbps cable service!
I've had similar results on the iP4-- way better than the 3GS and often better than WiFi. Several times, upload was faster than download.
I have found that if you get poor or sporadic results, changing the test server can help.
.
Well, not really. I mean, who hasn't used a cellphone and noticed signal attenuation? The bars go up and down -- sometimes depending on where you stand. Yes, and also how you hold the phone. This isn't news to anyone who's used a cellphone. That's why Apple's attempt to use it as cover for their "self-inflicted problem" was simple deflection.
Sure it's nice that they've taken steps to help their customers. But the flaw remains. Even with the flaw, it's a great phone. But why leave the flaw? Is it some sort of philosophical thing, like a Persian rug?
I liked your clever comparison to a Persian rug.
For the record, I own a 3G iPhone (which is not happy with iOS 4), not an iPhone 4. If the signal attenuation isn't a "flaw" in other phones, why is it a flaw in Apple's phone being that they all experience the same thing at varying degrees? Is it because Apple's phone has this "flaw" to a greater degree than other phones? If so, doesn't the fact that Apple's new iPhone has a lot better reception overall kind of cancel out the higher degree of signal attenuation it experiences?
I have no stake in one side or the other of this argument, I plan to upgrade to an iPhone 4 either way. To me, I think it's all moot because the iPhone 4 has stronger reception which seems to be cancelled out by the strong signal attenuation problems if you are in a weak-signal area.
well |I just retired my 3g (after putting 4.0 on it ,, it lagged bad),,iphone 4 looks to apple restrictive,, went droid,, and the choices and layout is unlimited,, like a burden has been lifted, all web pages and emails open fully,,, i got the xperia x10,, ive tried everything to have signal drop,, no dice,, so my response to mr. jobs is that not all phones have the deficiencies of your product,, and your rush to make your products obsolete by rushing products out on one end and holding back other parts,,,
the more this happens the more apple is going to get caught with there pants down,,
im not a apple hater,,, but i am apple discouraged with the attitude of late
Well, cgrisar, I was responding to the particularly obnoxious post that I have quoted above, and was unaware that I am only allowed to do so if using perfect punctuation. Thank you for pointing that out through the thinly veiled irony of your own post. It was most certainly my unawareness that had caused the unfortunate mistakes spotted by you, and not a malfunction of my keyboard, as you seem to believe.
I shall not correct my older post, for I want it to serve as a painful reminder of my lacking knowledge of English grammar. We can all try a little bit harder to improve this forum.
For example, whenever we choose to behave like asshats and write snotty posts, we can remember the closing quotation marks at the end of a sentence.
You'd better check your keyboard as well.
You should have had a comma between 'Well' and 'we'.
Further, your 'I' and 't' seem to be canceling each other out. Shouldn't it be 'It seems like...
I shall not correct my older post, for I want it to serve as a painful reminder of my lacking knowledge of English grammar.
Did you mean "painful reminder of my lack of knowledge of the English grammar"?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Did you mean "painful reminder of my lack of knowledge of the English grammar"?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
You should be sorry.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/lacking
Oh Jeez, AI trying to make a ludicrous comparison between the odd possibility that you grap that HTC Droid Eris by the UPPER extremity of the phone to the -rather natural- BOTTOM left iPhone 4's death grip... I know that the ridicule does not kill, it can just makes you look silly and intellectually dishonest.
In other news, if you remove back cover from Nokia E63 and manage to squeeze all 10 fingers on its antenna, it will significantly drop signal strength.
There you go. Steve is right. Again.
(Of course they are dishonest. They are fan/worshiper/extremist site. Give them some credit - they only protect what they love. Like mother duck protect her ducklings)
And this just in from the National Pancake Institute: Waffles Suck!
Wake me up when some iPhone 5 rumors show up...
Here's your first one - it's being released as the iPhone 4G since it will be 4G capable, and I assume that means it'll also have a worldphone 'big brother' called the iPhone 4G-Dubya.
Ya heard it here first.
WELL I DISAGREE WITH YOU WHOLEHEARTEDLY. I f Apple had done more "real world" testing with the iPhone 4 as the final product looked like they would have discovered this issue and dealt with it......You can't reproduce the real world in a lab or text book or whatever. You just gotta try it the exact environment you will be using the product.
I know you want your testing to be recognized as something important, and it is for you, but in the larger scheme of things it simply isn't. Your informal "field testing" simply isn't meaningful to anyone but you. And, frankly, you are a bit ridiculous when you insist that Apple didn't do any field testing, or that yours equates with theirs. The difference is that real field testing is systematic and includes more than just taking a couple of phones outside and seeing if you can make the signal drop.
You're misrepresenting it because you know, I know, we all know about the bar algorithm issue, but you are pretending as though the pre-fix bars are indicative of how much signal the phone can lose, when we all know they are not. Maybe you're just a confused thinker, which I think is the case, but the whole thing about it "losing signal" without qualifying the statement, or quantifying how much, is a misrepresentation
The basic misrepresentation (not just from chronster) that flows through all these harangues (here and elsewhere) is that ALL iPHONES 4 DON'T WORK AS PHONES.
Not true - provably not true - yet the drumbeat goes on.
*SOME* iP4s have reception issues/signal-drop/whatever when their gap is fingered.
*SOME* of them don't have this problem AT ALL. Mine, for example. NO drops. At all. Anywhere. Bars or no bars. Before and after 4.0.1. No matter how I hold the bare phone.
Ergo:
- only *some* iPhones 4 have this issue;
- if *yours* has this issue, replace it - or return it & buy something else.
- claiming that ALL iP4s can't make/take/keep calls because you saw it on the yootubz is a lie.
You know....I just don't understand all of this fuss. People have been having problems with cell phone reception for as long as I can remember but never have they been so aggressive to a manufacturer. Before if a call dropped you would look at the phone, cuss the provider and then make another call.
It makes me wonder if Apple in now moving into the realm of Microsoft where because the company is so large and popular that they are scrutinized beyond belief and punished for a problem that has always been around?
I know I will probably get flak for this but I think its time the media just let this go now and lets move on. The phone works, reception is bad in low reception areas, a case helps reception and because of the stink made in the media and a handful of users Apple is giving away cases now. Problem solved until the phone is updated again.
Just my 2 cents.
Nice Post man.
And in my opinion all these competitors should really watch their mouth. It would be just like Apple to go back to the drawing board, invent a phone that has no Antenna weak spot what-so-ever (sorry but it just doesn't exist yet) and make all these other companies look like idiots for ever piping up in the first place.
Before, no-one thought twice about this. Now that the competition and media fueled this fire, it',s out in the open.. and when the next generation of Blackberries, nokia's and HTC's come off the assembly line, people are going to be feeling around for weak spots.
Don't throw stones in a glass house.
You should be sorry.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/lacking
For what? Your sentence construction was still awkward despite the definition of "lacking."
Oh god, why am I even bothering to post this.
Next...
...Oh god, why am I even bothering to post this...
Probably because you realize that you were picking on me for no good reason. You did apologize though, so let's just forget about it.