Seems some are answering my question already. To each his own but some people hold their phones in some really funky ways... not the wrong way, just the funky way! : )
Hello All,
I am curious, not owning an iPhone OR any "Smart Phone", I was just previewing the videos on Apple's antenna page and I noticed that to have bars show up, you have to hold your phone by your fingertips but to demonstrate the disappearance of bars you have to basically "cup" the phone in your hand.
Well I grabbed my six year old cell phone, but I get NO signal in my house anyway, so the "death grip" to lose bars has no meaning for me here because I have ZERO bars and then I picked up my regular home phone and I noticed that in both my "grips", I "cupped" the phone. They definitely were not being held by fingertips like someone drinking tea with their pinky up!
Question to all you who have smart phones, iPhone or other, do you hold your smart phone by the fingertips? If not then are you cupping the phone in some manner, not necessarily a death grip, but naturally, phone... in hand... placed next to ear...? And if you do, signal bar loss or not, do you notice any degradation of the phone from holding it that way when using it?
It would be interesting to know... How do you hold your phone?
They all lose the amount of signal they are going to lose immediately. Any of these phones will drop a call or stop data transfer if the signal is already weak enough that the drop from holding them is enough to drop below their minimum threshold. The iP4 is no different, they all do exactly the same thing: signal loss is signal loss.
The difference is that it requires an awkward unnatural death grip on other phones.
On the iPhone 4, all it takes is some skin touching the seam.
A normal grip, with the fingers on the side and the corner resting in your palm is a natural grip. It has enough contact with the seam to cause the same problem as demonstrated by the finger. I wasn't arguing that the finger touch was a natural grip, only that it demonstrates that the problem is one of physical contact with the antenna, and no other phone has that problem.
Once again:
My point is that there are two issues here that the iPhone 4 suffers from
1) Signal attenuation that occurs when you cover the entire antenna from a death grip (which only occurs during an unnatural hold).
AND
2) Signal loss that occurs when you merely touch the seam with either your finger or your palm (which can occur in a natural hold).
And here are my earlier replies:
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Oh, but one finger on the iPhone antenna seam is a natural hold? The only difference between the 2 is the location and that one's antenna is internal, while the other is not, which I guess throws cold water on the whole, "Apple screwed up with an external antenna," talking point. Sorry about that.
If you want to shift your claim to, "But the iPhone is affected by a normal grip," well, so are all the other phones we've seen videos of. So, one finger, normal grip, there's nothing unique about the iP4 in this regard, and your criticism, while it can be directed at other phones as well, falls flat on its face when you attempt to single out the iP4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
A distinction without a difference. Many phones have been shown to lose signal when held in a "normal grip". So, what does it matter that one is in physical contact with the antenna or not? It doesn't. The effect is the same.
yes, but remember, the signal indicator was lying to you, Apple admitted. It displays more signal than is there, so if you dropped 5 bars, you probably only had 2 to begin with.
You've missed the point. The bars were never incorrect, innaccurate or lying.
What is the point? Do you believe it can't be demonstrated? IF it can, you believe this is meaningful? You are MISSING DETAILS.
If you drop a call, with no other added information, it tells you nothing.
The information we need is basically unknowable (the available cell... we NEED to know this to do an experiment).
You're trying to argue a thin point... that you haven't seen other phone's drop calls with a single touch... but even if you saw these videos, I am telling you they mean nothing.
A dropped call means weak cell. No one can prove otherwise, apparently.
Ok, look, I suspect you're either just playing or just goofy. Either way, I'll clarify one time for you, though it shouldn't be necessary.
The iP4 has been shown to lose a call or lose data when held and the bars drop from full to none. I am asking if you can point me to a video that documents a call drop or loss of data when another phone is held and the bars drop from full to none.
Videos showing a signal bar drop when the phone is held aare not of much interest to me, especially if the phone still functions.
How these other phone videos can be held up as equivalent to any that shows data lost on the iP4 escapes me. And don't bother responding if you don't have a video link, hopefully someone else does.
A normal grip, with the fingers on the side and the corner resting in your palm is a natural grip. It has enough contact with the seam to cause the same problem as demonstrated by the finger. I wasn't arguing that the finger touch was a natural grip, only that it demonstrates that the problem is one of physical contact with the antenna, and no other phone has that problem.
Once again:
My point is that there are two issues here that the iPhone 4 suffers from
1) Signal attenuation that occurs when you cover the entire antenna from a death grip (unnatural hold).
AND
2) Signal loss that occurs when you merely touch the seam with either your finger or your palm (which can occur in a natural hold).
I have seen many 4's in the wild now, and only a couple have been without a case of some kind. I routinely case my iPhones to protect them. So for me and seemingly the vast majority of users, this is not a problem either because their normal usage habits (casing the phone) overcomes it, or their phone or area don't seem to be effected. So while it can be demonstrated that there is some kind of phenomenon on some phones, this can also be reproduced on other phones and is not unique to this model. I would propose that the terms "issue" and "suffers" are value-loaded and not objective. A more neutral term would be "characteristic." One of the characteristics of the iPhone 4 is that some of them, under some circumstances, have their reception negatively effected if held in certain ways. The phone has many other characteristics, some of which make it best in class, others not. Other phones have similar signal attenuation characteristics. ON BALANCE, the device performs better than its predecessor, and better than the competition.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how a fanboi can still be a fanboi.
OMG.
Context much?
What, exactly, does a video of a dropped call say about anything at all, genius? This was the problem all along with the Apple bashers... you can't tell where videos are made. Could have been made in a bunker with just the bare minimum available cell. This is why real scientists use controlled conditions and hundred million dollar anechoic chambers.
Again, I say,
A stupid video of a hand, and a cell phone, and a dropped call... MEANS ZILTCH. Always had. A million videos like them mean zilch. On both sides... any cell phone, isolated video, dropping bars or a call, or anything like that, it's all dog poo. Meaningless.
Yes, you can attenuate the signal on an iPhone 4 by touching "the spot", but I would hardly call the antenna "much worse". In fact, in almost 1 month of normal use, I literally haven't dropped any calls. That's my reality. BTW, that's without a case or bumper. Speaking of bumpers, I cracks me up when they're referred to as rubber bands. They're actually made with two kinds of material and have metal buttons. Last rubber band I used didn't have any buttons on it.
I agree on both cases. The bumper is more than just a rubber band. Go to a store and check them out. or do a search with Hi-Res photos.
I've had the iPhone 4 since day one actually -1 day (got it on the 23rd). And I've been to IL, CO, NJ, NY, Conn., ME, MA, NH and VT. In both big cities and rural areas, inside and outside. Never had reception issues, data issues or dropped calls and all this without a case around the phone. And my style of holding the phone in my left hand has not changed either.
So I don't know how much of an issue people are really having. Or just reading about it and joining in on the vocalization (aka complaining). Don't like it... return it. Like it... keep it and use it. Simple as that.
... The iP4 has been shown to lose a call or lose data when held and the bars drop from full to none. I am asking if you can point me to a video that documents a call drop or loss of data when another phone is held and the bars drop from full to none. ...
Sorry, but this no longer happens using iOS 4.0.1, where the bars are actually somewhat analogous to signal strength. Before they weren't. Same exact signal drop. You have no argument.
I have seen many 4's in the wild now, and only a couple have been without a case of some kind. I routinely case my iPhones to protect them. So for me and seemingly the vast majority of users, this is not a problem either because their normal usage habits (casing the phone) overcomes it, or their phone or area don't seem to be effected. So while it can be demonstrated that there is some kind of phenomenon on some phones, this can also be reproduced on other phones and is not unique to this model. I would propose that the terms "issue" and "suffers" are value-loaded and not objective. A more neutral term would be "characteristic." One of the characteristics of the iPhone 4 is that some of them, under some circumstances, have their reception negatively effected if held in certain ways. The phone has many other characteristics, some of which make it best in class, others not. Other phones have similar signal attenuation characteristics. ON BALANCE, the device performs better than its predecessor, and better than the competition.
Brilliant. If I haven't said it before I really appreciate the thoughtful, level-headed, intelligent comments you make on this forum. Thanks.
It's already been shown that your distinction is meaningless in the actual effects on users.
Actually, it's not meaningless. As I've stated before, other phones only suffer signal loss when you hold them unnaturally. And the iPhone suffers signal loss when held in some natural ways.
Ok, look, I suspect you're either just playing or just goofy. Either way, I'll clarify one time for you, though it shouldn't be necessary.
The iP4 has been shown to lose a call or lose data when held and the bars drop from full to none. I am asking if you can point me to a video that documents a call drop or loss of data when another phone is held and the bars drop from full to none.
Videos showing a signal bar drop when the phone is held aare not of much interest to me, especially if the phone still functions.
How these other phone videos can be held up as equivalent to any that shows data lost on the iP4 is pointless. And don't bother responding if you don't have a video link, hopefully someone else does.
And I am telling you that your question, your science, your curiosity, is wrong headed. You are seeking information that will not tell you anything.
Unless...
maybe...
you were born with a genetic defect that allows you to SEE teh MICROWAVE SPECRTRUM!
sry...
oK, so, the flaw is... you are assuming that you know the state of the actual available cell.
You don't. So your belief that you've seen iPhone's drop calls with a single touch, and you haven't seen other phones do it... your belief that it is telling anything interesting at all... about the phone or other phones, is completely fallacious. It's called Begging the Question. You ASSUME you know the INVISIBLE UNKNOWABLE cell availability, then you see the iphone 4 drop a call with a touch... and you THINK YOU KNOW MORE. But you don't. It's not telling us anything. It's not an experiment. It's an isolated observation. A million added up still mean nothing. I've been saying this since I registered. I've been able to get a few to see the problem with the thought process... but the end of it is... all those videos mean nothing, and Apple's videos are trying to show that...
Brilliant. If I haven't said it before I really appreciate the thoughtful, level-headed, intelligent comments you make on this forum. Thanks.
Wow, you made my day. Thank you. I have had the same thoughts about you and couple of other regular posters here. I often scan the threads and zero in our yours and the others' posts, knowing there is something of value to read. Intelligent, and often dryly witty. I appreciate that.
Actually, it's not meaningless. As I've stated before, other phones only suffer signal loss when you hold them unnaturally. And the iPhone suffers signal loss when held in some natural ways.
Then the argument has been downgraded.
The iPhone 4 is no longer DEFECTIVE, in the opinion of the grievers.
It is merely INFERIOR.
Now, we can move on from the defective argument, and debate the inferior argument.
Comments
Seems some are answering my question already. To each his own but some people hold their phones in some really funky ways... not the wrong way, just the funky way! : )
Hello All,
I am curious, not owning an iPhone OR any "Smart Phone", I was just previewing the videos on Apple's antenna page and I noticed that to have bars show up, you have to hold your phone by your fingertips but to demonstrate the disappearance of bars you have to basically "cup" the phone in your hand.
Well I grabbed my six year old cell phone, but I get NO signal in my house anyway, so the "death grip" to lose bars has no meaning for me here because I have ZERO bars and then I picked up my regular home phone and I noticed that in both my "grips", I "cupped" the phone. They definitely were not being held by fingertips like someone drinking tea with their pinky up!
Question to all you who have smart phones, iPhone or other, do you hold your smart phone by the fingertips? If not then are you cupping the phone in some manner, not necessarily a death grip, but naturally, phone... in hand... placed next to ear...? And if you do, signal bar loss or not, do you notice any degradation of the phone from holding it that way when using it?
It would be interesting to know... How do you hold your phone?
My Cell Phone image: http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/...sBest/cell.jpg
My Home Phone image: http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/...t/landline.jpg
They all lose the amount of signal they are going to lose immediately. Any of these phones will drop a call or stop data transfer if the signal is already weak enough that the drop from holding them is enough to drop below their minimum threshold. The iP4 is no different, they all do exactly the same thing: signal loss is signal loss.
The difference is that it requires an awkward unnatural death grip on other phones.
On the iPhone 4, all it takes is some skin touching the seam.
Heres my earlier reply:
A normal grip, with the fingers on the side and the corner resting in your palm is a natural grip. It has enough contact with the seam to cause the same problem as demonstrated by the finger. I wasn't arguing that the finger touch was a natural grip, only that it demonstrates that the problem is one of physical contact with the antenna, and no other phone has that problem.
Once again:
My point is that there are two issues here that the iPhone 4 suffers from
1) Signal attenuation that occurs when you cover the entire antenna from a death grip (which only occurs during an unnatural hold).
AND
2) Signal loss that occurs when you merely touch the seam with either your finger or your palm (which can occur in a natural hold).
And here are my earlier replies:
Oh, but one finger on the iPhone antenna seam is a natural hold? The only difference between the 2 is the location and that one's antenna is internal, while the other is not, which I guess throws cold water on the whole, "Apple screwed up with an external antenna," talking point. Sorry about that.
If you want to shift your claim to, "But the iPhone is affected by a normal grip," well, so are all the other phones we've seen videos of. So, one finger, normal grip, there's nothing unique about the iP4 in this regard, and your criticism, while it can be directed at other phones as well, falls flat on its face when you attempt to single out the iP4.
A distinction without a difference. Many phones have been shown to lose signal when held in a "normal grip". So, what does it matter that one is in physical contact with the antenna or not? It doesn't. The effect is the same.
yes, but remember, the signal indicator was lying to you, Apple admitted. It displays more signal than is there, so if you dropped 5 bars, you probably only had 2 to begin with.
You've missed the point. The bars were never incorrect, innaccurate or lying.
You are fundamentally mistaken in believing that these videos would mean anything, whether they exist or not.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how a fanboi can still be a fanboi.
I wasn't abandoning the "natural grip" argument, just giving it up on you since its a subjective argument.
So you've got nothing? OK.
The difference is that it requires an awkward unnatural death grip on other phones.
On the iPhone 4, all it takes is some skin touching the seam.
It's already been shown that your distinction is meaningless in the actual effects on users.
I refer you to my post:
What is the point? Do you believe it can't be demonstrated? IF it can, you believe this is meaningful? You are MISSING DETAILS.
If you drop a call, with no other added information, it tells you nothing.
The information we need is basically unknowable (the available cell... we NEED to know this to do an experiment).
You're trying to argue a thin point... that you haven't seen other phone's drop calls with a single touch... but even if you saw these videos, I am telling you they mean nothing.
A dropped call means weak cell. No one can prove otherwise, apparently.
Ok, look, I suspect you're either just playing or just goofy. Either way, I'll clarify one time for you, though it shouldn't be necessary.
The iP4 has been shown to lose a call or lose data when held and the bars drop from full to none. I am asking if you can point me to a video that documents a call drop or loss of data when another phone is held and the bars drop from full to none.
Videos showing a signal bar drop when the phone is held aare not of much interest to me, especially if the phone still functions.
How these other phone videos can be held up as equivalent to any that shows data lost on the iP4 escapes me. And don't bother responding if you don't have a video link, hopefully someone else does.
So, there are no videos?
I don't know, but it's pointless to look for them. The results are dictated by the physics, not by whether one can find videos.
Heres my earlier reply:
A normal grip, with the fingers on the side and the corner resting in your palm is a natural grip. It has enough contact with the seam to cause the same problem as demonstrated by the finger. I wasn't arguing that the finger touch was a natural grip, only that it demonstrates that the problem is one of physical contact with the antenna, and no other phone has that problem.
Once again:
My point is that there are two issues here that the iPhone 4 suffers from
1) Signal attenuation that occurs when you cover the entire antenna from a death grip (unnatural hold).
AND
2) Signal loss that occurs when you merely touch the seam with either your finger or your palm (which can occur in a natural hold).
I have seen many 4's in the wild now, and only a couple have been without a case of some kind. I routinely case my iPhones to protect them. So for me and seemingly the vast majority of users, this is not a problem either because their normal usage habits (casing the phone) overcomes it, or their phone or area don't seem to be effected. So while it can be demonstrated that there is some kind of phenomenon on some phones, this can also be reproduced on other phones and is not unique to this model. I would propose that the terms "issue" and "suffers" are value-loaded and not objective. A more neutral term would be "characteristic." One of the characteristics of the iPhone 4 is that some of them, under some circumstances, have their reception negatively effected if held in certain ways. The phone has many other characteristics, some of which make it best in class, others not. Other phones have similar signal attenuation characteristics. ON BALANCE, the device performs better than its predecessor, and better than the competition.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how a fanboi can still be a fanboi.
OMG.
Context much?
What, exactly, does a video of a dropped call say about anything at all, genius? This was the problem all along with the Apple bashers... you can't tell where videos are made. Could have been made in a bunker with just the bare minimum available cell. This is why real scientists use controlled conditions and hundred million dollar anechoic chambers.
Again, I say,
A stupid video of a hand, and a cell phone, and a dropped call... MEANS ZILTCH. Always had. A million videos like them mean zilch. On both sides... any cell phone, isolated video, dropping bars or a call, or anything like that, it's all dog poo. Meaningless.
Yes, you can attenuate the signal on an iPhone 4 by touching "the spot", but I would hardly call the antenna "much worse". In fact, in almost 1 month of normal use, I literally haven't dropped any calls. That's my reality. BTW, that's without a case or bumper. Speaking of bumpers, I cracks me up when they're referred to as rubber bands. They're actually made with two kinds of material and have metal buttons. Last rubber band I used didn't have any buttons on it.
I agree on both cases. The bumper is more than just a rubber band. Go to a store and check them out. or do a search with Hi-Res photos.
I've had the iPhone 4 since day one actually -1 day (got it on the 23rd). And I've been to IL, CO, NJ, NY, Conn., ME, MA, NH and VT. In both big cities and rural areas, inside and outside. Never had reception issues, data issues or dropped calls and all this without a case around the phone. And my style of holding the phone in my left hand has not changed either.
So I don't know how much of an issue people are really having. Or just reading about it and joining in on the vocalization (aka complaining). Don't like it... return it. Like it... keep it and use it. Simple as that.
... The iP4 has been shown to lose a call or lose data when held and the bars drop from full to none. I am asking if you can point me to a video that documents a call drop or loss of data when another phone is held and the bars drop from full to none. ...
Sorry, but this no longer happens using iOS 4.0.1, where the bars are actually somewhat analogous to signal strength. Before they weren't. Same exact signal drop. You have no argument.
I have seen many 4's in the wild now, and only a couple have been without a case of some kind. I routinely case my iPhones to protect them. So for me and seemingly the vast majority of users, this is not a problem either because their normal usage habits (casing the phone) overcomes it, or their phone or area don't seem to be effected. So while it can be demonstrated that there is some kind of phenomenon on some phones, this can also be reproduced on other phones and is not unique to this model. I would propose that the terms "issue" and "suffers" are value-loaded and not objective. A more neutral term would be "characteristic." One of the characteristics of the iPhone 4 is that some of them, under some circumstances, have their reception negatively effected if held in certain ways. The phone has many other characteristics, some of which make it best in class, others not. Other phones have similar signal attenuation characteristics. ON BALANCE, the device performs better than its predecessor, and better than the competition.
Brilliant. If I haven't said it before I really appreciate the thoughtful, level-headed, intelligent comments you make on this forum. Thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2Bw0...=youtube_gdata
It's already been shown that your distinction is meaningless in the actual effects on users.
Actually, it's not meaningless. As I've stated before, other phones only suffer signal loss when you hold them unnaturally. And the iPhone suffers signal loss when held in some natural ways.
Ok, look, I suspect you're either just playing or just goofy. Either way, I'll clarify one time for you, though it shouldn't be necessary.
The iP4 has been shown to lose a call or lose data when held and the bars drop from full to none. I am asking if you can point me to a video that documents a call drop or loss of data when another phone is held and the bars drop from full to none.
Videos showing a signal bar drop when the phone is held aare not of much interest to me, especially if the phone still functions.
How these other phone videos can be held up as equivalent to any that shows data lost on the iP4 is pointless. And don't bother responding if you don't have a video link, hopefully someone else does.
And I am telling you that your question, your science, your curiosity, is wrong headed. You are seeking information that will not tell you anything.
Unless...
maybe...
you were born with a genetic defect that allows you to SEE teh MICROWAVE SPECRTRUM!
sry...
oK, so, the flaw is... you are assuming that you know the state of the actual available cell.
You don't. So your belief that you've seen iPhone's drop calls with a single touch, and you haven't seen other phones do it... your belief that it is telling anything interesting at all... about the phone or other phones, is completely fallacious. It's called Begging the Question. You ASSUME you know the INVISIBLE UNKNOWABLE cell availability, then you see the iphone 4 drop a call with a touch... and you THINK YOU KNOW MORE. But you don't. It's not telling us anything. It's not an experiment. It's an isolated observation. A million added up still mean nothing. I've been saying this since I registered. I've been able to get a few to see the problem with the thought process... but the end of it is... all those videos mean nothing, and Apple's videos are trying to show that...
Brilliant. If I haven't said it before I really appreciate the thoughtful, level-headed, intelligent comments you make on this forum. Thanks.
Wow, you made my day. Thank you. I have had the same thoughts about you and couple of other regular posters here. I often scan the threads and zero in our yours and the others' posts, knowing there is something of value to read. Intelligent, and often dryly witty. I appreciate that.
Is this guy holding it wrong or just a shareholder?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2Bw0...=youtube_gdata
Tests by Anandtech and consumer reports show that the signal will drop by about 20db when held with the seam being touched by skin.
If the person is in an area with really good reception, the phone may still show 5 bars after a 20db drop, since the db range for 5 bars is quite big.
Actually, it's not meaningless. As I've stated before, other phones only suffer signal loss when you hold them unnaturally. And the iPhone suffers signal loss when held in some natural ways.
Then the argument has been downgraded.
The iPhone 4 is no longer DEFECTIVE, in the opinion of the grievers.
It is merely INFERIOR.
Now, we can move on from the defective argument, and debate the inferior argument.