Whya ask Dorsal questions and demand they be answered? If you know anyhting about his habits he visits these boards infrequently and may not see these posts for days if not weeks. Just read and discuss.
Let me just say that I would be absolutely *ecstatic* to be wrong about not seeing a G5-based Mac any time soon. I love the platform, and moreover, would love to see one on my desk.
So it would be with great pleasure that I ate a healthy amount of crow, and we get G5 Macs. However, I just don't see it happening -- MOT's semiconductor business switch focus rather firmly to the embedded market years ago. It may be coincidental, but it seemed to me at the time that killing the clones years ago marked a shift in MOT's focus when it came to their semiconductor business.
Killing the clones killed MOT's own PPC Mac clones, which couldn't have made many executives there happy -- it wasn't a trivial investment they made in their own machines, and the various parts they produced for others. It also cut down the number of companies wanting PPC chips for desktop computers, and thus the volume of PPC chip shipments -- despite Jobs' claim that they were cutting solely into Apple's sales.
It was also in that timeframe that MOT announced that Windows NT was their standard corporate computing environment -- sounding a bit of a deathnell for their support of Macs and perhaps fortelling the amount of enthusiasm they'd devote to PPC chip development outside of the embedded market.
Don't get me wrong, Apple is still a huge customer of MOT, but it simply seems to me that a corporate change of direction happened back then. Perhaps it would have happened anyway, given the furious pace Intel set, who knows.
As for the G4, it wasn't that much of a surprise for most developers -- we were seeded with "SimG4" -- an app that simulated the G4 in software, letting developers profile their code on a G4 without actually having one. It is still around today, and still quite useful.
That said, there also was not such a shrouded veil of secrecy around Apple then. The Jihad against rumours sites hadn't really begun yet.
So in a nutshell, I think you're asking "Is it possible the G5 could be sprung upon everyone as a surprise?" Sure, I suppose it is possible -- it'd be one incredibly tight-lipped project, though, both from MOT and from Apple. It would *really* surprise me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Moki -
I just want to say I like your posts.
I think there is an element everyone here is missing though. Too much emphasis is being placed on MOT, my gut tells me that IBM has a bigger hand in the G5 than we think.
I have a feeling Apple will announce three new PowerMacs with the entry-level model being the only one to be available right away. That one will be the SDRAM model. The other two will be the DDR RAM models and will be available in March. Shades of Yikes!
So what are the prospects of us seeing the Apollo in the PowerBook any time soon? Is Macworld Tokyo a possibility?
Some people here seem to think that because they've been around since the old days or because they have X number of posts, they are entitled to insider information.
Just a reminder: you are not entitled to anything.
Thanks to everyone else who has intelligent posts.
Apple will wait until iMacs are shipping to the "end user" with at the same time announcing new updated Power Macs shipping immediately. This will happen at the end of this week with Power Macs shipping on Feb. 1st.
We're important enough to have two of our products bundled on every single Macintosh sold.
However, I've never said I had access to any hardware seeds -- if I did, I would not be able to post about what I know, because I'd be under NDA for that hardware.
You can take seriously whatever you choose, but you're being incredibly short-sighted to dismiss what anyone with any shred of inside information knows: the G5 is barely even on the radar screen.
Everyone who has insulted or disparaged me for what I've been saying, I think you really should re-think ad-hominem attacks. Don't attack someone simply because you don't like what they are saying.
I too would love to have a G5 on my desktop tomorrow -- however, I've been in the industry for a decade and a half, and I have numerous friends and contacts throughout Apple and related companies. They've been insisting that the next round of machines will be Apollo G4's, and that there were two separate platforms (SDRAM and DDR) in semi-parallel development. If the delay in the new Pro line release wasn't simply a marketing decision, it is possible that they are skipping the SDRAM speedbump in favor of the DDR platform.
The G5 has consistently been downplayed as not coming until very late this year or early next by everyone I know. Sure, they all could be wrong, or all might not know what the true deal is -- but somehow I doubt it.
If you want to attach more credibility to any random person with an Internet connection, then by all means, go for it. I attach more credibility to my friends and colleagues in the industry.
I suppose we'll see who is right soon enough, but in the meantime, lay off attacking the messenger simply because you don't like the message.
Sorry if I offended, Moki, it wasn't my intention. I did mean "large and important" -- prototype hardware is typically hard to come by and smaller software developers usually don't see it. You admit not seeing prototype hardware, so obviously I wasn't far off of the mark.
Congrats on the bundling deal.
As for the timing of the G5, you could well be right. Or you could be wrong. It has been in the works for a few years now, and the earliest mentions of it were targetting sometime in 2000. Moto has focussed on embedded processors, but that doesn't mean Apple hasn't been driving the desktop processor design... which might allow them to keep a tighter lid on progress. If no new software features are expected then testing might be restricted in order to keep it quiet. The 64-bit question is a big one, but if the machines are fully 32-bit compatible then there really shouldn't be a reason to not ship them before any 64-bit software is available (including the OS). There's a whole laundry list of reasoning for the G5. All wild speculation of course.
Dorsal's postings not withstanding (and as pointed out by others, he doesn't really claim anything concrete) I'd be surprised to see a G5 before WWDC or MWNY. That doesn't mean I'm not hoping. Whatever this forum may have been a year ago, it is now a forum of wild and entertaining speculation -- I sincerely hope that nobody takes it seriously, or (heaven forbid) makes real decisions based on it. Apple seems to have shut down the rumour machine effectively enough that this is all that is left to us.
What we really need is somebody to publicly break NDA in a big way, so big that Apple sues them and it all gets splashed across the news. Anything short of that is likely to get shot down by either the optimists or the pessimists.
I guarantee you, if someone broke their NDA and posted that the G5s are ready and are coming out at Tokyo, they'd be flamed and laughed off these boards, LOL.
<strong>I guarantee you, if someone broke their NDA and posted that the G5s are ready and are coming out at Tokyo, they'd be flamed and laughed off these boards, LOL.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly! That's why they'd have to put it up on one of those big screens in Times Square, or something. Posting it to AI would just make Apple laugh at this point as well. Mr Jobs probably doesn't waste his time, but I'm sure there are at least a few Apple employees that come here and giggle at the insanity.
Sorry if I offended, Moki, it wasn't my intention. I did mean "large and important" -- prototype hardware is typically hard to come by and smaller software developers usually don't see it. You admit not seeing prototype hardware, so obviously I wasn't far off of the mark.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I never claimed to have any access whatever to seed hardware -- indeed, if I did, the *last* thing I would be doing is posting about it.
However, you didn't state that I hadn't seen prototype hardware, you essentially dismissed anything and everything I had to say -- which is really rather silly. One needn't have access to a machine to know what it is.
A good number of people knew what the new iMacs were all about before Time Canada blew it by posting that web site too early -- but they sure weren't going to be posting here about it with anything ressembling specificity.
<strong>However, you didn't state that I hadn't seen prototype hardware, you essentially dismissed anything and everything I had to say -- which is really rather silly. One needn't have access to a machine to know what it is.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Point taken. My post was intended to be tongue-in-cheek (hence the trailing smilie). The arguments in this forum have been spiraling out of control for a couple of weeks now, and I'm having a hard time taking anything here very seriously (a theme from my previous message that clearly didn't have a sharp enough point on it). It remains a fun place to speculate though. You're dashing our hopes with real information Mr Welsh, and we'd rather not have any of that... a slow day-by-day drawn out kind of dashing is much preferable.
[quote]I wish some of you would have the intellectual honesty to admit it.<hr></blockquote>
What good is ascribing credibility to one who has none? People who do so are neither intellectual, nor honest...and they are certainly not intellectually honest...whatever you mean by that, I don't really know.
"A good number of people knew what the new iMacs were all about before Time Canada blew it by posting that web site too early -- but they sure weren't going to be posting here about it with anything ressembling specificity."
And I'm sure there are a good number of people who know what the PowerMac G5s are all about as well, and they wouldn't dare post it here either...
to all you power hungry guys out there.. if you really need to know any and all future hardware that Apple is releasing before actual announcement dates, there really is a simple solution...
become best buddies with Seal who was in both the iPod and new iMac movies, the day they were released...
chill out people... we can all speculate and plan Apple's hardware future like adults, right?
<strong>And I'm sure there are a good number of people who know what the PowerMac G5s are all about as well, and they wouldn't dare post it here either... </strong><hr></blockquote>
heh -- ok, whatever, I give up.
Let the G5 conspiracy theories continue unabated...
Comments
<strong>
Let me just say that I would be absolutely *ecstatic* to be wrong about not seeing a G5-based Mac any time soon. I love the platform, and moreover, would love to see one on my desk.
So it would be with great pleasure that I ate a healthy amount of crow, and we get G5 Macs. However, I just don't see it happening -- MOT's semiconductor business switch focus rather firmly to the embedded market years ago. It may be coincidental, but it seemed to me at the time that killing the clones years ago marked a shift in MOT's focus when it came to their semiconductor business.
Killing the clones killed MOT's own PPC Mac clones, which couldn't have made many executives there happy -- it wasn't a trivial investment they made in their own machines, and the various parts they produced for others. It also cut down the number of companies wanting PPC chips for desktop computers, and thus the volume of PPC chip shipments -- despite Jobs' claim that they were cutting solely into Apple's sales.
It was also in that timeframe that MOT announced that Windows NT was their standard corporate computing environment -- sounding a bit of a deathnell for their support of Macs and perhaps fortelling the amount of enthusiasm they'd devote to PPC chip development outside of the embedded market.
Don't get me wrong, Apple is still a huge customer of MOT, but it simply seems to me that a corporate change of direction happened back then. Perhaps it would have happened anyway, given the furious pace Intel set, who knows.
As for the G4, it wasn't that much of a surprise for most developers -- we were seeded with "SimG4" -- an app that simulated the G4 in software, letting developers profile their code on a G4 without actually having one. It is still around today, and still quite useful.
That said, there also was not such a shrouded veil of secrecy around Apple then. The Jihad against rumours sites hadn't really begun yet.
So in a nutshell, I think you're asking "Is it possible the G5 could be sprung upon everyone as a surprise?" Sure, I suppose it is possible -- it'd be one incredibly tight-lipped project, though, both from MOT and from Apple. It would *really* surprise me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Moki -
I just want to say I like your posts.
I think there is an element everyone here is missing though. Too much emphasis is being placed on MOT, my gut tells me that IBM has a bigger hand in the G5 than we think.
So what are the prospects of us seeing the Apollo in the PowerBook any time soon? Is Macworld Tokyo a possibility?
What color are the motherboards? Different or both red?
and we wait and we wait and we wait..............................and we wait
This forum is a is a a ****!
F.U.C.K: Fornication Under Consent of the King <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
Just a reminder: you are not entitled to anything.
Thanks to everyone else who has intelligent posts.
<strong>
We're important enough to have two of our products bundled on every single Macintosh sold.
However, I've never said I had access to any hardware seeds -- if I did, I would not be able to post about what I know, because I'd be under NDA for that hardware.
You can take seriously whatever you choose, but you're being incredibly short-sighted to dismiss what anyone with any shred of inside information knows: the G5 is barely even on the radar screen.
Everyone who has insulted or disparaged me for what I've been saying, I think you really should re-think ad-hominem attacks. Don't attack someone simply because you don't like what they are saying.
I too would love to have a G5 on my desktop tomorrow -- however, I've been in the industry for a decade and a half, and I have numerous friends and contacts throughout Apple and related companies. They've been insisting that the next round of machines will be Apollo G4's, and that there were two separate platforms (SDRAM and DDR) in semi-parallel development. If the delay in the new Pro line release wasn't simply a marketing decision, it is possible that they are skipping the SDRAM speedbump in favor of the DDR platform.
The G5 has consistently been downplayed as not coming until very late this year or early next by everyone I know. Sure, they all could be wrong, or all might not know what the true deal is -- but somehow I doubt it.
If you want to attach more credibility to any random person with an Internet connection, then by all means, go for it. I attach more credibility to my friends and colleagues in the industry.
I suppose we'll see who is right soon enough, but in the meantime, lay off attacking the messenger simply because you don't like the message.
[ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: moki ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry if I offended, Moki, it wasn't my intention. I did mean "large and important" -- prototype hardware is typically hard to come by and smaller software developers usually don't see it. You admit not seeing prototype hardware, so obviously I wasn't far off of the mark.
Congrats on the bundling deal.
As for the timing of the G5, you could well be right. Or you could be wrong. It has been in the works for a few years now, and the earliest mentions of it were targetting sometime in 2000. Moto has focussed on embedded processors, but that doesn't mean Apple hasn't been driving the desktop processor design... which might allow them to keep a tighter lid on progress. If no new software features are expected then testing might be restricted in order to keep it quiet. The 64-bit question is a big one, but if the machines are fully 32-bit compatible then there really shouldn't be a reason to not ship them before any 64-bit software is available (including the OS). There's a whole laundry list of reasoning for the G5. All wild speculation of course.
Dorsal's postings not withstanding (and as pointed out by others, he doesn't really claim anything concrete) I'd be surprised to see a G5 before WWDC or MWNY. That doesn't mean I'm not hoping. Whatever this forum may have been a year ago, it is now a forum of wild and entertaining speculation -- I sincerely hope that nobody takes it seriously, or (heaven forbid) makes real decisions based on it. Apple seems to have shut down the rumour machine effectively enough that this is all that is left to us.
What we really need is somebody to publicly break NDA in a big way, so big that Apple sues them and it all gets splashed across the news. Anything short of that is likely to get shot down by either the optimists or the pessimists.
<strong>And we wait for dorsal M to answer the question... </strong><hr></blockquote>
Has Dorsal ever answered a question?
<strong>I guarantee you, if someone broke their NDA and posted that the G5s are ready and are coming out at Tokyo, they'd be flamed and laughed off these boards, LOL.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly! That's why they'd have to put it up on one of those big screens in Times Square, or something. Posting it to AI would just make Apple laugh at this point as well. Mr Jobs probably doesn't waste his time, but I'm sure there are at least a few Apple employees that come here and giggle at the insanity.
<strong>
Sorry if I offended, Moki, it wasn't my intention. I did mean "large and important" -- prototype hardware is typically hard to come by and smaller software developers usually don't see it. You admit not seeing prototype hardware, so obviously I wasn't far off of the mark.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I never claimed to have any access whatever to seed hardware -- indeed, if I did, the *last* thing I would be doing is posting about it.
However, you didn't state that I hadn't seen prototype hardware, you essentially dismissed anything and everything I had to say -- which is really rather silly. One needn't have access to a machine to know what it is.
A good number of people knew what the new iMacs were all about before Time Canada blew it by posting that web site too early -- but they sure weren't going to be posting here about it with anything ressembling specificity.
<strong>However, you didn't state that I hadn't seen prototype hardware, you essentially dismissed anything and everything I had to say -- which is really rather silly. One needn't have access to a machine to know what it is.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Point taken. My post was intended to be tongue-in-cheek (hence the trailing smilie). The arguments in this forum have been spiraling out of control for a couple of weeks now, and I'm having a hard time taking anything here very seriously (a theme from my previous message that clearly didn't have a sharp enough point on it). It remains a fun place to speculate though. You're dashing our hopes with real information Mr Welsh, and we'd rather not have any of that... a slow day-by-day drawn out kind of dashing is much preferable.
What good is ascribing credibility to one who has none? People who do so are neither intellectual, nor honest...and they are certainly not intellectually honest...whatever you mean by that, I don't really know.
"A good number of people knew what the new iMacs were all about before Time Canada blew it by posting that web site too early -- but they sure weren't going to be posting here about it with anything ressembling specificity."
And I'm sure there are a good number of people who know what the PowerMac G5s are all about as well, and they wouldn't dare post it here either...
[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: Tarbash ]</p>
become best buddies with Seal who was in both the iPod and new iMac movies, the day they were released...
chill out people... we can all speculate and plan Apple's hardware future like adults, right?
<strong>And I'm sure there are a good number of people who know what the PowerMac G5s are all about as well, and they wouldn't dare post it here either... </strong><hr></blockquote>
heh -- ok, whatever, I give up.
Let the G5 conspiracy theories continue unabated...
<strong>
heh -- ok, whatever, I give up.
Let the G5 conspiracy theories continue unabated...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Moki, understand we are 5 year old kids who you are telling that Santa does not exist. We respect your wisdom, but still want to believe
[i do believe in Santa]
But I just want to see a picture of her naked. Assuming she is a girl that is.
is reporting the new G4 Power Macs
800/933/Dual 1Ghz
<a href="http://store.apple.com"; target="_blank">update</a>
[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: alter_Ego ]</p>