I suspect though, that Rosetta will be part of the final package, as a custom install offering. My gut feeling is that it is being optimised for better performance and security and not yet ready to be used.
There is also likely to be a way of installing the Snow Leopard Rosetta onto Lion. So I aint going to panic yet!
PowerPC applications now have the circle with a cross badge over its icon just like what you see if you have any classic apps laying around on an Intel Mac. Furthermore if you try to launch them, this is message the Finder pops up:
You can't open the application because PowerPC applications are no longer supported.
This message seems to be pretty direct and to the point. Someone did try to copy the files and frameworks that were installed for Rosetta from Snow Leopard onto Lion to see if it would work but the same error message pops up which means Apple has stripped out other support mechanisms for PowerPC architecture/code within the OS. The writing is clearly on the wall for Rosetta.
If you're that cheap to still be using PowerPC laptops and running PowerPC apps (most likely a seven year old copy of Office I'm guessing), then why even pretend you were thinking of upgrading at all?
I have a mint condition, completely tricked out PowerPC laptop that runs as fast as any of them have ever run and all it's good for is sitting on a shelf in case of power outages. It's impossible to use because it's so slow you'd pull your hair out just trying to write a short paper or cruise the web. The few times I've put Leopard on it, it slows down to half that speed so I run Tiger instead just to keep it reasonable.
I also have a 1st generation MacBook Air that I put together out of spare parts, and it runs rings around the power PC laptop, and you have to be pretty damn slow to be bested by a 1st generation Air.
You can get better performance out of a low end netbook than a PowerPC Mac at this point.
Aren't you the smart one! Humility isn't one of your strong points, is it? I currently have two high end Intel Mac Pro's that I use but my two 12" Powerbooks (1.5ghz, 1.25M, OS 10.5.8) are still very serviceable and meet all my needs when I use them on the road. While I have very few PPC apps (by the way, my MS Office is new - 2008), I can see no reason to toss anything that still is working. Apple has begun to work on the same planned short term obsolescence model that Microsoft is famous for and that is what I am reacting to. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
That's my take anyway. As I said in another thread: "If it works, it's obsolete"
I hear you there... I suppose I'm weird enough to hope that progress won't make a new computer obsolete before the Applecare expires...
But at least, I'm relieved for now that JRE can easily be downloaded. We depend heavily upon LibreOffice, and are not willing to go the route of Google Docs (or especially Apple iWork/Pages) for all our word processing.
Who knows, in the heat of the competition to come, Apple could make it difficult to get to Google Docs? Naw, just kidding.
[Edit: maybe I'm wrong and no need for JRE with LibreOffice (and GIMP??)? Heck: I'm ignernt.
Uh oh, I seem to remember Quicktime 7 requesting that Rosetta be installed before running. If so and they haven't fixed Quicktime X, I'll have to hold back from upgrading. You simply can't do quick edits in FCP/iMovie and QTX has so few features and is missing scaling, audio pasting, cutting, frame numbering etc.
I wish they wouldn't force a whole system on you before you find out if an app you rely on is any good. I guess there's not much choice with it being a system-level component though.
Good news everyone!
Quote:
- QuickTime Player finally re-incorporates some features from QuickTime Pro. New features cited include Copy/Paste, Insert Clip, Crop Video, Rotate Video, Resize, Trim, More Export options.
I hear you on the 12" PB. I kept it for basic stuff like letting my son write his papers or playing Platypus and even some old Math games that only worked on those old Macs.
But he ventured to my 27" iMac and felt the speed and power and found new apps. And every time I sat down to use that 12" PB, it felt slower and slower. Surfing was painful. Everything was just painfully slow.
I really enjoyed it over the years and probably those memories more than anything made it hard to let go. But the handwriting has been on the wall for some time. We all know it. In my case, AppleWorks was marked for death and I was putting off updating my files until the absolute end.
I don't begrudge Apple for dropping this or that. Sometimes it's a pain in the butt. But we are enjoying the fruits of innovation in the computer industry. We've had ample time to move our data forward or let is die. As businesses, we've had ample time to search out more modern solutions or keep the Macs we have to the bitter end and hope something comes available with the new models.
There's no point in stammering about moving to Windows if you can't have Front Row forever or you're angry for not being able to learn a new App to run databases.
We should learn to adapt and relish learning new things anyway. The minor lost productivity as you learn new things will be made up by the massive speed boosts and new features of the OS. There's the silver lining!
Uh oh, I seem to remember Quicktime 7 requesting that Rosetta be installed before running. If so and they haven't fixed Quicktime X, I'll have to hold back from upgrading. You simply can't do quick edits in FCP/iMovie and QTX has so few features and is missing scaling, audio pasting, cutting, frame numbering etc.
Not only that, Quicktime 7 seems 100% reliant converting items to iphone, etc., where I find X seems to hang a LOT with 5 seconds left ... and not just on my computer I've found.
I can live without Front Row (I hardly ever use it), but I also have legacy apps from my first PowerBook that were never converted to Intel by the publisher, and it's going to suck losing support in Lion. Hope it's worth it. For the most part, I wouldn't miss Rosetta.
True, but sometimes it seems Apple does it purely out of spite. Was Rosetta in the previous builds of Lion? Was it working? Are there new changes to the Lion OS that makes it somehow inherently incompatible?
Apple make Rosetta so seamless that it's likely there are many people who don't know they are even using it. Java can be installed on your own. FrontRow nobody really used. I think ditching Rosetta is going to be a headache for Apple and their customers.
I doubt They do anything out of spite, so I hope that was just kidding on your part. They have very good reasons for what they do, even if we don't all agree with it every time.
We really have to push PPC away at this time. People just have to upgrade sometime. And remember that people who don't buy new products for a long while, are not considered customers by companies. Apple has to look at it's present and future customer base, not the guys who last bought a computer in the early 2000's. Six years is enough already. Say goodby.
Sure, that's when the last PPC hardware was sold. But when was the last PPC software was sold? When did Apple finally update all it's software to not use any PPC code? When was Office, and Quicken moved to Intel. There was a LOT of PPC software, including Apple's own, that was sold after the last PPC Mac was sold.
We are not talking about supporting the hardware. Who cares if Aperture 3 can run on a PPC Mac. We are talking about supporting the software that was sold not all that long ago. The one great thing about Macs, and I've been using them since 1987, is that even as the hardware faded into the past, the software kept working. I had software from 1989 that still ran fine and was fully functional running under Classic on OX up until Classic was abandoned only a couple of years ago. It worked for nearly 2 decades!
If Rosetta doesn't have some inherent incompatibility with Lion, it shouldn't be abandoned yet.
But on the positive for Apple, if they stick with this decision, it means I'll likely be purchasing a new laptop sooner than planned so I can ensure to have a machine that will run Snow Leopard.
They do support the software. Software support is called upgrades. When you buy an upgrade, you are taking advantage of the software support. Rosetta was a curtesy, to give people time to get a new machine, without requiring them to do so right away.
Six years should be enough time for anyone to have taken the plunge.
I thought 32-bit and 64-bit each have their own advantages.
There is no real advantage to 32 bit, other than the somewhat smaller program files. If you've got programs that won't work under 64 bits, then get on the phone with the developer and yell at him.
Of course, both the CS5 and Office 2008 core applications are 64 bit Intel (mostly?).
Bryce has no equivalent that I know of, with its range of capabilities and has a rich heritage. Something nice about the application actually, is the community that includes Mac and Windows users (up to Leopard and Win 7) talking on the one forum. (...and the creativity on display!)
I used to use Bryce. But it fell behind years ago. Now, it's not very good. There are much better programs available, but they will cost you. Such is progress.
For me the big issue is loss of Canvas. While I think I can find a Canvas replacement, I have 20 years of Canvas files that cannot be read with other software. A lot of work went into those files and, as with draw programs, many components can be reused.
A few solutions:
1. someone writes a rosetta replacement.
2. dual boot
3. (dread) buy the windows version of Canvas and run under windows (but I'm doubtful it will open all old files).
Best Solution: A canvas replacement that can read old canvas files.
What's the matter with you guys? Don't you know your own software? Are you sure you actually have Canvas? I already said that Canvas is still available. Is it too much to ask you to look this up before complaining about something that isn't a problem?
The video was removed though so I can't see what it looks like. I can see the overlay UI getting annoying and they better have in/out marking. The overlay is an issue when you have a clip with artifacts that appear at the top of the frame. You sometimes don't see them until you play them in another player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevc
Not only that, Quicktime 7 seems 100% reliant converting items to iphone, etc., where I find X seems to hang a LOT with 5 seconds left ... and not just on my computer I've found.
I've found their export limits pretty annoying too as they like to decide the bitrate for you and yet don't bundle high quality AVC encoders so it comes out bad. QTX also has issues playing some AVC content due to the forced hardware decoder. It's smooth when it works though.
edit: there's some other things added too in Lion like being able to merge folders instead of just replace and also video capture of a selected area:
Comments
I suspect though, that Rosetta will be part of the final package, as a custom install offering. My gut feeling is that it is being optimised for better performance and security and not yet ready to be used.
There is also likely to be a way of installing the Snow Leopard Rosetta onto Lion. So I aint going to panic yet!
PowerPC applications now have the circle with a cross badge over its icon just like what you see if you have any classic apps laying around on an Intel Mac. Furthermore if you try to launch them, this is message the Finder pops up:
You can't open the application because PowerPC applications are no longer supported.
This message seems to be pretty direct and to the point. Someone did try to copy the files and frameworks that were installed for Rosetta from Snow Leopard onto Lion to see if it would work but the same error message pops up which means Apple has stripped out other support mechanisms for PowerPC architecture/code within the OS. The writing is clearly on the wall for Rosetta.
Is it just me, or do those new GUI controls (buttons, sliders, etc.) look cartoony and cheap?
Probably just you.
The shiny, pill-like buttons in previous versions were a garish relic from the early days of OS X.
The new designs are more minimal and more stylish.
If you're that cheap to still be using PowerPC laptops and running PowerPC apps (most likely a seven year old copy of Office I'm guessing), then why even pretend you were thinking of upgrading at all?
I have a mint condition, completely tricked out PowerPC laptop that runs as fast as any of them have ever run and all it's good for is sitting on a shelf in case of power outages. It's impossible to use because it's so slow you'd pull your hair out just trying to write a short paper or cruise the web. The few times I've put Leopard on it, it slows down to half that speed so I run Tiger instead just to keep it reasonable.
I also have a 1st generation MacBook Air that I put together out of spare parts, and it runs rings around the power PC laptop, and you have to be pretty damn slow to be bested by a 1st generation Air.
You can get better performance out of a low end netbook than a PowerPC Mac at this point.
Aren't you the smart one! Humility isn't one of your strong points, is it? I currently have two high end Intel Mac Pro's that I use but my two 12" Powerbooks (1.5ghz, 1.25M, OS 10.5.8) are still very serviceable and meet all my needs when I use them on the road. While I have very few PPC apps (by the way, my MS Office is new - 2008), I can see no reason to toss anything that still is working. Apple has begun to work on the same planned short term obsolescence model that Microsoft is famous for and that is what I am reacting to. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
That's my take anyway. As I said in another thread: "If it works, it's obsolete"
I hear you there... I suppose I'm weird enough to hope that progress won't make a new computer obsolete before the Applecare expires...
But at least, I'm relieved for now that JRE can easily be downloaded. We depend heavily upon LibreOffice, and are not willing to go the route of Google Docs (or especially Apple iWork/Pages) for all our word processing.
Who knows, in the heat of the competition to come, Apple could make it difficult to get to Google Docs? Naw, just kidding.
[Edit: maybe I'm wrong and no need for JRE with LibreOffice (and GIMP??)? Heck: I'm ignernt.
Uh oh, I seem to remember Quicktime 7 requesting that Rosetta be installed before running. If so and they haven't fixed Quicktime X, I'll have to hold back from upgrading. You simply can't do quick edits in FCP/iMovie and QTX has so few features and is missing scaling, audio pasting, cutting, frame numbering etc.
I wish they wouldn't force a whole system on you before you find out if an app you rely on is any good. I guess there's not much choice with it being a system-level component though.
Good news everyone!
- QuickTime Player finally re-incorporates some features from QuickTime Pro. New features cited include Copy/Paste, Insert Clip, Crop Video, Rotate Video, Resize, Trim, More Export options.
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/27/...res-much-more/
But he ventured to my 27" iMac and felt the speed and power and found new apps. And every time I sat down to use that 12" PB, it felt slower and slower. Surfing was painful. Everything was just painfully slow.
I really enjoyed it over the years and probably those memories more than anything made it hard to let go. But the handwriting has been on the wall for some time. We all know it. In my case, AppleWorks was marked for death and I was putting off updating my files until the absolute end.
I don't begrudge Apple for dropping this or that. Sometimes it's a pain in the butt. But we are enjoying the fruits of innovation in the computer industry. We've had ample time to move our data forward or let is die. As businesses, we've had ample time to search out more modern solutions or keep the Macs we have to the bitter end and hope something comes available with the new models.
There's no point in stammering about moving to Windows if you can't have Front Row forever or you're angry for not being able to learn a new App to run databases.
We should learn to adapt and relish learning new things anyway. The minor lost productivity as you learn new things will be made up by the massive speed boosts and new features of the OS. There's the silver lining!
I like Front Row. No need to delete useful applications.
I wish they'd add screen casting to Air Play though.
Uh oh, I seem to remember Quicktime 7 requesting that Rosetta be installed before running. If so and they haven't fixed Quicktime X, I'll have to hold back from upgrading. You simply can't do quick edits in FCP/iMovie and QTX has so few features and is missing scaling, audio pasting, cutting, frame numbering etc.
Not only that, Quicktime 7 seems 100% reliant converting items to iphone, etc., where I find X seems to hang a LOT with 5 seconds left ... and not just on my computer I've found.
Two words: Mail Attachments.
I'm going to assume here the new mail won't rely on Java to show mail attachments?
True, but sometimes it seems Apple does it purely out of spite. Was Rosetta in the previous builds of Lion? Was it working? Are there new changes to the Lion OS that makes it somehow inherently incompatible?
Apple make Rosetta so seamless that it's likely there are many people who don't know they are even using it. Java can be installed on your own. FrontRow nobody really used. I think ditching Rosetta is going to be a headache for Apple and their customers.
I doubt They do anything out of spite, so I hope that was just kidding on your part. They have very good reasons for what they do, even if we don't all agree with it every time.
We really have to push PPC away at this time. People just have to upgrade sometime. And remember that people who don't buy new products for a long while, are not considered customers by companies. Apple has to look at it's present and future customer base, not the guys who last bought a computer in the early 2000's. Six years is enough already. Say goodby.
Sure, that's when the last PPC hardware was sold. But when was the last PPC software was sold? When did Apple finally update all it's software to not use any PPC code? When was Office, and Quicken moved to Intel. There was a LOT of PPC software, including Apple's own, that was sold after the last PPC Mac was sold.
We are not talking about supporting the hardware. Who cares if Aperture 3 can run on a PPC Mac. We are talking about supporting the software that was sold not all that long ago. The one great thing about Macs, and I've been using them since 1987, is that even as the hardware faded into the past, the software kept working. I had software from 1989 that still ran fine and was fully functional running under Classic on OX up until Classic was abandoned only a couple of years ago. It worked for nearly 2 decades!
If Rosetta doesn't have some inherent incompatibility with Lion, it shouldn't be abandoned yet.
But on the positive for Apple, if they stick with this decision, it means I'll likely be purchasing a new laptop sooner than planned so I can ensure to have a machine that will run Snow Leopard.
They do support the software. Software support is called upgrades. When you buy an upgrade, you are taking advantage of the software support. Rosetta was a curtesy, to give people time to get a new machine, without requiring them to do so right away.
Six years should be enough time for anyone to have taken the plunge.
It's fine to tell people not to upgrade, but what happens when they need a new computer?
Jeesh! This is simple. I've already responded to it.
Get another HDD, either external or internal, and put SL on that, and use it as a startup drive with all your old apps.
This isn't the end of the world guys! There are easy workarounds if you really can't let go of your babies.
I thought 32-bit and 64-bit each have their own advantages.
There is no real advantage to 32 bit, other than the somewhat smaller program files. If you've got programs that won't work under 64 bits, then get on the phone with the developer and yell at him.
Of course, both the CS5 and Office 2008 core applications are 64 bit Intel (mostly?).
Bryce has no equivalent that I know of, with its range of capabilities and has a rich heritage. Something nice about the application actually, is the community that includes Mac and Windows users (up to Leopard and Win 7) talking on the one forum.
I used to use Bryce. But it fell behind years ago. Now, it's not very good. There are much better programs available, but they will cost you. Such is progress.
For me the big issue is loss of Canvas. While I think I can find a Canvas replacement, I have 20 years of Canvas files that cannot be read with other software. A lot of work went into those files and, as with draw programs, many components can be reused.
A few solutions:
1. someone writes a rosetta replacement.
2. dual boot
3. (dread) buy the windows version of Canvas and run under windows (but I'm doubtful it will open all old files).
Best Solution: A canvas replacement that can read old canvas files.
What's the matter with you guys? Don't you know your own software? Are you sure you actually have Canvas? I already said that Canvas is still available. Is it too much to ask you to look this up before complaining about something that isn't a problem?
Here!
http://store.acdsee.com/store/acd/en...=1298847081162
Good news everyone!
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/27/...res-much-more/
The video was removed though so I can't see what it looks like. I can see the overlay UI getting annoying and they better have in/out marking. The overlay is an issue when you have a clip with artifacts that appear at the top of the frame. You sometimes don't see them until you play them in another player.
Not only that, Quicktime 7 seems 100% reliant converting items to iphone, etc., where I find X seems to hang a LOT with 5 seconds left ... and not just on my computer I've found.
I've found their export limits pretty annoying too as they like to decide the bitrate for you and yet don't bundle high quality AVC encoders so it comes out bad. QTX also has issues playing some AVC content due to the forced hardware decoder. It's smooth when it works though.
edit: there's some other things added too in Lion like being able to merge folders instead of just replace and also video capture of a selected area:
http://www.macstories.net/mac/os-x-l...of-the-screen/
Try VueScan - unless it is a SCSI device - which is about the only thing I have run across that VueScan cannot handle.
VueScan will work with a FireWire to SCSI converter cable, and usually, it depends on the scanner more than VueScan, a USB to SCSI converter cable.