Google sets sights on enterprise, education with subscription 'Chromebooks'

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  • Reply 61 of 372
    christopher126christopher126 Posts: 4,366member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    I do like the idea of a striped down iPad to compete (just toss in the keyboard dock). And with Apple's retail network, Apple could easily do the same for schools. However, they would have to put forward the same kind of subscription model and same kind of service model (manage everything) to be competitive.



    Me too, Apple did it with the eMac. I have to believe it would be far easier with the iPad.



    I know a lot has been said about a stripped down iPad to make them cheaper but manufacturers sometimes find it's more cost effective to run the same line with the same product to increase the economies of scale...stick a different label on it at the end of the line and sell it cheaper to schools etc.



    I do agree that schools would find a $20 upfront investment quite attractive over buying a $400-$500 unit upfront. Airlines don't "buy" multi-million dollar jet planes for the same reason. They lease them.



    It's all about cash flow, baby!



    PS. And...this little Ghostery bubble shows what it's blocking then fades after a few seconds...note the lines through the programs!











    Pretty cool!
  • Reply 62 of 372
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    Dick, sorry for the wrong link a few minutes ago. I posted one for the Chrome Browser in error.



    Try this instead:

    http://www.google.com/support/forum/...50cc24be&hl=en



    A more direct link, and a much easier process, for a packaged version you can run off a USB drive is here:

    http://chromeos.hexxeh.net/vanilla.php
  • Reply 63 of 372
    h2ph2p Posts: 330member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    This is a CIO's dream. $28/mo and everything is taken care off. Vs. having to map out a plan with a high up front capital cost for IT upgrades and having to incur the ongoing costs for software and hardware support.



    I'll +1 your +1: Perfect analysis. It's the IT dept workers that may be out of a bit of work over this. Could cost a few jobs.
  • Reply 64 of 372
    guch20guch20 Posts: 173member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jdhayes117 View Post




    Personally, although a devout Apple enthusiast, if forced to make a choice other than Apple, I'd take Microsoft over Google any day.



    I completely agree with everything you said, particularly the part I quoted, which is why, when I'm due for a new phone in July, I'll be getting a Windows phone instead of an Android phone (since it's doubtful Apple will be bringing the iPhone to Sprint anytime soon...dammit).



    Google is the new Microsoft and I refuse to help them grow their monopoly.
  • Reply 65 of 372
    notscottnotscott Posts: 247member
    From a messaging perspective,



    How can it be "instant" on if it has an "8 second boot time"?



    How can it be "always connected" if there's an "Offline" mode/status (shown in the photo)?
  • Reply 66 of 372
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    OK!



    Several posters here are supportive of the Chrome OS and the ChromeBook.



    I don't see it... yet!





    Do you guys promoting the concept have some actual "hands-on" experience?



    If so, where can I get some?





    Help me see the light!



    I?m curious as to what you don?t see.



    Is WebKit as the foundation of an OS a problem?



    Is an OS that is a web browser a problem despite huge segment of PCs are only using the web browser?



    Is it coming from Google the problem?



    It will launch and run faster than a netbook running the same internal HW and yet will still have a greater battery life for the same size cell, all with a full-size keyboard.



    I certainly don?t have much of a need for my iPad but I can certainly see how it?s a great satellite computer for many users. I don?t understand how anyone can?t see how it can be useful.
  • Reply 67 of 372
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by H2P View Post


    I'll +1 your +1: Perfect analysis. It's the IT dept workers that may be out of a bit of work over this. Could cost a few jobs.



    Seriously. Some people just can't see how substantial this is. In this thread two perfect examples have come up:



    1) Computers used in schools, universities and libraries that are locked to web browsers.

    2) Computers in call centres that simply input machines running off web interfaces.



    Today, those machines will be $600-$700 Windows machines, which require lots of management and will still require some basic software like anti-virus. Whether you rent or lease, just imagine replacing those with a box that has nothing but the browser. No device management headaches. No sys admin permissions (well okay, some...but not like before). No anti-virus updates to manage, etc.



    I am not quite sure it'll be a huge hit yet. But I can see some serious potential in the concept.
  • Reply 68 of 372
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    It's just launched. Obviously we don't have first hand experience. But some of us can use logic to see how things would work. And there have been more than enough demos out there to form an informed opinion. And really....it's a freaking web browser. It'll run like Chrome on your desktop.



    Tell me, you didn't think the iPad was going to be a hit before you got your hands on one?

    If you did, why would you suggest that this can't be successful without trying it out?





    But, apparently, it has been in use by business for a while.



    I do understand the concept of a laptop. I have one. I have looked at netbooks -- never wanted one.



    So, along comes a special, low-cost? laptop that just runs a web browser and some local copies of web apps.





    Pardon me, but it is a leap in logic (at least for me) to assume that a browser and some web apps can do what I or any of the other 4 members of the household do on their computers.



    Everyone can do surfing, email, WP, SS, etc. -- those are "meets min" for any computing device.



    Can you create and edit a simple movie on a ChromeBook? We do this daily.



    What about games or other specialty apps?





    They say you can run apps while off line. What apps?





    To me, the whole issue is going to be about:



    1) the apps available for the device



    2) whether these apps can satisfy the bulk of a person's computer needs



    3) the cost



    At $1,008 ($28 per month for 36 months) I can buy a pretty nice iPad, BT KB, and lots of apps.
  • Reply 69 of 372
    ezduzitezduzit Posts: 158member
    what happens when soemone loses their machine?



    what happens when they stop paying? does google send out a team to collect? it's a certainty that those $20 per month charges will have an enormous default rate.



    where is the support coming from? this is a new kettle of fish for google to try and fry.
  • Reply 70 of 372
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post


    do agree that schools would find a $20 upfront investment quite attractive over buying a $400-$500 unit upfront. Airlines don't "buy" multi-million dollar jet planes for the same reason. They lease them.



    You could finance an iPad for about the same cost. The difference is that the physical keyboard and mouse with local storage, usb file sharing and good ergonomics are the compelling attributes of the Google solution. It is not as much about the price as it is the features since the costs are comparable. iPad is not well suited for the stated target market.
  • Reply 71 of 372
    prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Google announced on Wednesday that it will offer subscription "Chromebooks" running its Chrome OS Web-based operating system at a cost of $28 per month for business users, and $20 per month for students....



    Does anyone seriously give a rat's behind about Chrome OS anymore?



    Too little too late. The world has already moved on from the browser for the most part.



    I work in Education and I don't see any use for "class set's" of browsers on cheap underpowered notebooks either, except maybe elementary schools and the cost is too high and the tech to confusing for that. I do know of dozens of schools who want to buy class sets of iPads though.
  • Reply 72 of 372
    christopher126christopher126 Posts: 4,366member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    You could finance an iPad for about the same cost. The difference is that the physical keyboard and mouse with local storage, usb file sharing and good ergonomics are the compelling attributes of the Google solution. It is not as much about the price as it is the features since the costs are comparable. iPad is not well suited for the stated target market.



    Yep mstone...good points! But if I had a 12 year old daughter, I'd prefer her working on an iPad2 than a google netbook. In spite of the iPad2's limitations!



    Best
  • Reply 73 of 372
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I’m curious as to what you don’t see.



    Is WebKit as the foundation of an OS a problem?



    Is an OS that is a web browser a problem despite huge segment of PCs are only using the web browser?



    Is it coming from Google the problem?



    It will launch and run faster than a netbook running the same internal HW and yet will still have a greater battery life for the same size cell, all with a full-size keyboard.



    I certainly don’t have much of a need for my iPad but I can certainly see how it’s a great satellite computer for many users. I don’t understand how anyone can’t see how it can be useful.





    See my earlier post!





    Simply stated, the web provides about 10% of what we (5 people) use computers for -- it'd be a lot less if I didn't follow these forums.



    When I'm at my Mac I typically use several apps. Currently I am using:



    -- Safari

    -- Mail

    -- Interactive Brokers Stocktrader (done for the day, but monitor after-hour trades and news)

    -- GarageBand

    -- Apple FCP Motion 4

    -- QuickTime 7

    -- iPhoto

    -- iTunes



    Sure, some of this I can do through a Web OS -- but where, how do I do the things that can't?





    I can visualize classes of uses (not users) where limited Web-based apps would be sufficient.



    However, I do not believe that Web-based apps are sufficient to satisfy most uses in business, home and personal.



    For example: is there a ChromeOS app to teach math; Spanish; how to tell time...



    Edit: I know I'm gonna' get zapped for this...



    But how is ChromeOS/ChromeBook different than WebTV with a built-in display?
  • Reply 74 of 372
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Can you create and edit a simple movie on a ChromeBook? We do this daily.



    The average person doesn’t do this, but there is no reason it can’t be done. Can’t you upload and edit with YouTube already?



    Quote:

    What about games or other specialty apps?



    Yes and yes. They already announced Angry Birds. They have an app store and you can buy apps for it.



    Quote:

    They say you can run apps while off line. What apps?



    Any app that is localized, which would include native apps for playing audio, video and Google Docs.



    This shouldn’t be an issue for you and tells me you’re not looking at this clearly. There are plenty of App Store apps that simply don’t work when your iDevice doesn’t have an internet connection. Flicker, Words with Friends, and Maps are the first three that come to mind.



    Quote:

    To me, the whole issue is going to be about:



    1) the apps available for the device



    2) whether these apps can satisfy the bulk of a person's computer needs



    3) the cost



    At $1,008 ($28 per month for 36 months) I can buy a pretty nice iPad, BT KB, and lots of apps



    1) Just like anything else it needs to have apps, but it already has the ones for education and business: docs and web browser. Just like Android Marketplace and Apple’s App Store before it it will take time to build. If it doesn’t it could sink the product but I wouldn’t count out web code based apps just yet when there has been so many impressive feats on the internet proper and on WebOS.



    2) Why does it have to be “the bulk”? My iPhone apps don’t satisfy “the bulk” of my computer app needs yet they are indispensable nonetheless. I could live without Words with Friends, but I don’t want to. BTW, Wowrds with Friends could be easily added to the Chrome OS app store.



    3) The cost has already been shown to be considerably less than a desktop or laptop for the intended utility and market.



    That is pretty dumb math. I don’t see you using the same iPad for 3 straight years, but you’re also talking about a $1000+ upfront costs which simply don’t exist since you are paying a per month fee. Are you seriously trying to argue that an iPad is a replacement for an iPad and that an iPad sitting in a keyboard dock could at a 100 tables in a library or 50 terminals at a schools’ admin building or at 1000 desks at a company that accesses all data via the browser on their LAN?
  • Reply 75 of 372
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
    deleted
  • Reply 76 of 372
    prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tjw View Post


    Because an iPad is so brilliant for office applications and collaboration through web apps.... .



    The point is that someone at Google forgot to realise that this is not what the education market wants.



    They are pushing these as if they would be great for the school to buy as "class sets" for the students, but "office applications and collaboration" is something corporations need, not schools. By the time the kids are even using word, we are talking high school at minimum so that leaves out all elementary schools. By high school, the curriculum is already focussed on applications that won't run on these things. By college and University, the students all have their own laptops and even more specific application needs.



    Some school IT departments will be fooled into buying these but they will regret it. This isn't useful for Education purposes at all IMO.
  • Reply 77 of 372
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
    deleted
  • Reply 78 of 372
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
    deleted
  • Reply 79 of 372
    christopher126christopher126 Posts: 4,366member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    See my earlier post!





    Simply stated, the web provides about 10% of what we (5 people) use computers for -- it'd be a lot less if I didn't follow these forums.



    When I'm at my Mac I typically use several apps. Currently I am using:



    -- Safari

    -- Mail

    -- Interactive Brokers Stocktrader (done for the day, but monitor after-hour trades and news)

    -- GarageBand

    -- Apple FCP Motion 4

    -- QuickTime 7

    -- iPhoto

    -- iTunes



    Sure, some of this I can do through a Web OS -- but where, how do I do the things that can't?





    I can visualize classes of uses (not users) where limited Web-based apps would be sufficient.



    However, I do not believe that Web-based apps are sufficient to satisfy most uses in business, home and personal.



    For example: is there a ChromeOS app to teach math; Spanish; how to tell time...



    Good points Dick...BTW, a little off topic (Sorry) but have you seen the KhanAcadamy.org? Really impressive for students in Junior High or High School..may be even younger. Watch his TED 2011 talk here: http://www.khanacademy.org/



    PS. No Affiliation just love the website
  • Reply 80 of 372
    prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    The average person doesn’t do this, but there is no reason it can’t be done. Can’t you upload and edit with YouTube already?





    Yes and yes. They already announced Angry Birds. They have an app store and you can buy apps for it.





    Any app that is localized, which would include native apps for playing audio, video and Google Docs.



    This shouldn’t be an issue for you and tells me you’re not looking at this clearly. There are plenty of App Store apps that simply don’t work when your iDevice doesn’t have an internet connection. Flicker, Words with Friends, and Maps are the first three that come to mind.





    1) Just like anything else it needs to have apps, but it already has the ones for education and business: docs and web browser. Just like Android Marketplace and Apple’s App Store before it it will take time to build. If it doesn’t it could sink the product but I wouldn’t count out web code based apps just yet when there has been so many impressive feats on the internet proper and on WebOS.



    2) Why does it have to be “the bulk”? My iPhone apps don’t satisfy “the bulk” of my computer app needs yet they are indispensable nonetheless. I could live without Words with Friends, but I don’t want to. BTW, Wowrds with Friends could be easily added to the Chrome OS app store.



    3) The cost has already been shown to be considerably less than a desktop or laptop for the intended utility and market.



    No offence but I think you are 100% wrong on this. I work in Education and these things just don't fit the use cases at all.



    It reminds me of Microsoft in that they seem to have simply no idea of the market they are trying to sell to. It's almost as if someone on the Chrome project sat down and said "hmmm ... where can we sell these things now we've made them? I bet schools would like them!" Educational technology needs to be designed for the situation from the ground up. These are just cheap laptops that cut out the Microsoft tax, but it isn't enough. I don't see it.



    These things are too expensive, too underpowered and just don't have the necessary apps. Nor is there any reasonable expectation they can get them in the near future. Education needs are completely different from just editing a document and cruising the web. Most students need to edit video at a minimum, and there are dozens of specialty apps that simply won't be available.



    Also, where is the support? Is Google "in the schools?" No. Do they have reps visiting schools finding out what apps are needed and what they can do to fix things or help out? No.



    Apple does.



    Edit:



    In addition ... schools that do need word processing need Word. Anyone with any tech talent knows MS Word is POS but it's the standard format that everyone uses and it can't be gotten around. Apple is in the schools every day, supporting their needs and *still* they can't get them to switch Word for Pages even though Pages is a better product. A school can'st simply just switch to Google Docs overnight (or even over a matter of years). Ain't gonna happen.



    Also, something most people aren't aware of ... most governments and educational institutions outside of the USA can't use Google Docs at all. Period. The reason being that it's illegal to have personal information stored on computers outside of the country. In Canada, it's a violation of the privacy act for example for a school to use Google docs. Some do it anyway but only a small number.
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