IDC predicts PC users won't upgrade to Windows 8, tablet sales will be "disappointing"

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  • Reply 101 of 137
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Braden99 View Post


    The Corsair Obsidian 650D is a nicer looking case, yeah I agree that Silverstone case doesn’t appeal to me at all. But the Mac Pro just looks so bulky and cluttered on the inside, dense with boxy subdivisions, and a design that hasn’t changed for eons in the tech industry. I like the Corsair 650D case because it has a clean, subtle design, with excellent build quality and unique features, like hot swappable drive bay, tool-less and excellent cooling.



    You're kidding right? With the window on the side? Who is that feature aimed at, people that want to rice it out with LEDs?



    The Mac Pro compartments are for cooling, directing air flow from outside the case directly to the devices that need it, so each segment gets exactly the cooling it needs without unnecessary fan noise, and that heated air gets pushed outside the case so you avoid the "hot box" effect.
  • Reply 102 of 137
    "You're kidding right? With the window on the side?"

    You can get a version without the window. However what some Mac users dont realise is there is some very nice looking components these days, and most PC users don't put lights inside their computers (including myself), nor do they want to show off some crazy water cooling. It's just a nice feature to have for those who appreciate the design at a component level, and not hiding them in steel boxes. I use to love the design of Mac Pro from it's release to about 2007, then I got bored...



    Modern PC cases don't need fully modular design to stay cool, there are cases that do that, like some of Antec cases, but in the long run I find these cumbersome, and more difficult to upgrade, small areas, difficult to get to, and no real extra cooling or sound reduction.
  • Reply 103 of 137
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dbtinc View Post


    I'm a MAC user and I can tell you that every upgrade presented "driver" problems. On the upside - most were updated in a very reasonable period of time.



    what driver problems? your printer, scanner? yahh, I think Christopher126 is talking about your vital drivers such as video card, wireless, network, sound - not peripheral add-ons. You never see missing drivers for video cards or IDE bus systems on a Mac unless you modded it.
  • Reply 104 of 137
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    For it's time the design was (and is) fantastic. Plus benefits like GigEthernet, USB and ADC~ one single cable for power and graphics signal. The noise factor was tolerable for its generation.



    A good case for its generation, yes. But the noise factor alone means it doesn't compete with the PC cases of today.

    Quote:

    To compare to the evolved designs of today you'd have to look at the Mac Pro, that is the best "current era" PC case out there. The noise level of the Mac Pro is comparable to top-quality PC cases. The internal design is unmatched by any PC case, by branded manufacturer or custom case manufacturers.



    Silverstone FT02? I'm sure it's a good case and I used to have a Silverstone 500W True Power thingy... but, the case design? Not sure what "level" it is at.



    Mac Pro's case isn't comparable to a generic PC case in the sense that it doesn't do anywhere near as much. It only has to accept a very limited amount of components, and many of those components have been custom designed to fit the case. Neither does the Pro's case have to allow reaching all components, or assembling a system from scratch. Those advantages allow it to do stricter and more sophisticated compartmentalization than any generic case can. It is certainly the most complicated case around.



    That said, I'm more impressed by the airflow design of FT02. If you think it's anything resembling a normal case, you didn't look at the internals.

    Quote:

    (Note that the Mac Pro image is actually with the side panel REMOVED, while the Silverstone is with the panel ON.



    Not sure what your point is, but I hope you realize there are non-windowed FT02's for normal people and windowed FT02's for the casemodders. You chose to post a picture of the latter, but without the components which would be the key part of that particular aesthetic.

    Quote:

    Also, the Mac Pro has the disc drives and USB+Front Audio ports shown, while the Silverstone is BEFORE the disc drives and USB/Front Audio ports are installed.



    Nope, the FT02's ports are on top.
    Quote:

    It might come down to a matter of taste, eg. a souped-up import with neon lights vs a stock Lamborghini.



    Car analogies: always terrible.



    I like the Mac Pro's case a little bit better visually than the FT02, but there isn't a big difference. Both are pleasantly featureless and unobtrusive gray (or black) boxes.
  • Reply 105 of 137
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Braden99 View Post


    "You're kidding right? With the window on the side?"

    You can get a version without the window. However what some Mac users dont realise is there is some very nice looking components these days, and most PC users don't put lights inside their computers (including myself), nor do they want to show off some crazy water cooling. It's just a nice feature to have for those who appreciate the design at a component level, and not hiding them in steel boxes. I use to love the design of Mac Pro from it's release to about 2007, then I got bored...



    You may have become bored, but I still haven't seen a PC case remotely close to the Mac Pro case which is an impressive combination of aesthetics, industrial design and functionality.

    http://store.storeimages.cdn-apple.c...ery-big-04.jpg



    There are nearly no wires inside the case, HDs mate directly to the Motherboard.



    Even with most of the rats nest hidden behind:

    http://images.anandtech.com/gallerie...back_575px.jpg

    The FT02 still has that assembled in someones garage look on the visible internals:

    http://images.anandtech.com/gallerie...nals_575px.jpg
  • Reply 106 of 137
    The FT01 looks nicer to me

    Again with an option for no window
  • Reply 107 of 137
    Yeah the Mac Pro still looks good, but as Gon mentioned, only has to support a very limited range of upgrades, and only needs to be provide access to certain areas. I don't think the Mac Pro is that amazing looking, certaintly once you factor in function and upgradeability, rather than only form.
  • Reply 108 of 137
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post


    Even with most of the rats nest hidden behind:

    http://images.anandtech.com/gallerie...back_575px.jpg

    The FT02 still has that assembled in someones garage look on the visible internals:

    http://images.anandtech.com/gallerie...nals_575px.jpg



    While it's possible the expert who did this build worked in his garage, the phrase is misleading since this is pretty much the highest level of quality possible with generic components. "Garage" > "factory".



    For comparison, here's what a desktop usually looks like from the factory (this individual is a Dell professional workstation).

    http://images.anandtech.com/doci/4299/s-internals.jpg



    Even iMacs and 'books, despite being extremely integrated machines, have had a good amount of visible wire leads over the years.
  • Reply 109 of 137
    I have seen better cable management (including in my own system, which was built by a company allowing customized systems), but here are a few examples:

    http://benchmarkreviews.com/images/r...T-Side-H70.jpg

    http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/a...4/DSC_0524.jpg

    http://benchmarks-reviews.com/comput...LI_example.jpg
  • Reply 110 of 137
    splifsplif Posts: 603member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Braden99 View Post


    I have seen better cable management (including in my own system, which was built by a company allowing customized systems), but here are a few examples:

    http://benchmarkreviews.com/images/r...T-Side-H70.jpg

    http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/a...4/DSC_0524.jpg

    http://benchmarks-reviews.com/comput...LI_example.jpg



    & how does this look cleaner than the inside of a MacPro?
  • Reply 111 of 137
    splifsplif Posts: 603member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gon View Post


    While it's possible the expert who did this build worked in his garage, the phrase is misleading since this is pretty much the highest level of quality possible with generic components. "Garage" > "factory".



    For comparison, here's what a desktop usually looks like from the factory (this individual is a Dell professional workstation).

    http://images.anandtech.com/doci/4299/s-internals.jpg



    Even iMacs and 'books, despite being extremely integrated machines, have had a good amount of visible wire leads over the years.



    Yup, but nothing close to anything I've seen posted here. A snowflake & an avalanche are not the same thing.
  • Reply 112 of 137
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splif View Post


    & how does this look cleaner than the inside of a MacPro?



    Personal opinion, just as you have your opinion. As someone who opens up my system to add components etc, the Mac Pro looks cramped, and hides most of the motherboard and internal area, giving limited expansion options and space.



    Does it really matter anyway, You Mac Pro users can't see into your computers, and have adverse reactions to windows to see the internal components, you are likely to only ever open up your system once or twice (or never). All the internal components on a PC are identical in quality (if not better), becauce Apple souce all their parts from the same source, and these aren't necessarily the most high end solutions.

    Graphic cards have always been especially bad and expensive on Mac's, and SSD drives are currently only available from Apple, which are overpriced, and underperforming compared to the fastest SSD drives, all of which are compatiable with Windows 7.
  • Reply 113 of 137
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Braden99 View Post


    Graphic cards have always been especially bad and expensive on Mac's, and SSD drives are currently only available from Apple, which are overpriced, and underperforming compared to the fastest SSD drives, all of which are compatiable with Windows 7.



    Graphics objection I understand, but why do you say a Mac Pro must only use Apple's SSDs? What is with the "not compatible with Windows 7' line? Do you have a source for that?
  • Reply 114 of 137
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by knightlie View Post


    If you need a keyboard you need a laptop, not a tablet.



    If you look at something like the Asus Transformer you can see how the line between the two could be blurred.
  • Reply 115 of 137
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Braden99 View Post


    hides most of the motherboard and internal area, giving limited expansion options and space.



    No, every single option for expansion is made available to the user. Apple has custom logic boards and can choose the number of ports. It's all hidden because there's absolutely no reason anyone should need to see the logic board to upgrade a computer.



    Quote:

    You Mac Pro users can't see into your computers, and have adverse reactions to windows to see the internal components, you are likely to only ever open up your system once or twice (or never).



    I love how you think you know what we are. And I take it you never saw the G5. Clear plastic panel inside the metal outer wall?



    Quote:

    All the internal components on a PC are identical in quality (if not better), becauce Apple souce all their parts from the same source,



    Keeps getting better and better?



    Quote:

    Graphic cards have always been especially bad and expensive on Mac's



    Graphics card makers have always been especially bad at writing EFI drivers, despite its immense superiority over BIOS.



    Quote:

    and SSD drives are currently only available from Apple, which are overpriced, and underperforming compared to the fastest SSD drives, all of which are compatiable with Windows 7.



    Your point being? No one with more sense than money buys hard drives from Apple. Just like you'd never buy upgrades from any Windows OEM.
  • Reply 116 of 137
    Quote:

    Microsoft will do well in selling Windows 8 to the server market but fail to entice consumers or IT departments to upgrade their desktops



    I think this is extremely misleading. MS typically pushes its latest version of Server to Enterprise customers, who recently have been taking it just because it is most recent, not because it has great features or innovations. The server (and desktop) OS markets are mature.
  • Reply 117 of 137
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Graphics objection I understand, but why do you say a Mac Pro must only use Apple's SSDs? What is with the "not compatible with Windows 7' line? Do you have a source for that?



    My understanding is Lion OSX does not support any third party SSD with TRIM support, meaning over time your drive will become incredibly slow, say for example an OCZ Vertex 3, support for individual SSD is provided by Apple - But this may have changed as of now.

    http://osxdaily.com/2011/06/27/trim-...c-os-x-10-6-8/



    Also isn't the latest Mac Pro's only Sata 3GB/s, where very fast drives like Vertex 3 and others need 6GB/s for full speed. There are also other options for PCI-E SSD drives, that I doubt are as compatible as on Windows
  • Reply 118 of 137
    majjomajjo Posts: 574member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splif View Post


    & how does this look cleaner than the inside of a MacPro?



    How did this devolved into a debate about interior case aesthetics?



    Quote:

    Car analogies: always terrible.



    Actually, I can't help but be reminded of those tacky plastic covers that car companies put on top of their engine bays while reading the comments regarding the looks of the interior of the mac pro. see:

  • Reply 119 of 137
    WTF:







  • Reply 120 of 137
    So what your point? That it's bad Apple cover up all the components, or that PC's sometimes use plastic?

    Most good PC cases these days are a combination of steel and alminuim, so that point is mute.
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