You have to wonder if a good number of Android phones sold in "developing markets", which seem to make up the bulk of activations, don't even have data services available. Although, even in the U.S., Android is so far behind iOS in, for example, web usage stats that it makes the sales and activation numbers tossed around seem somewhat incredible.
Oh, I'm sure they don't. That's what "developing markets" means, or so they say. Can't afford the data. Can still afford the phone, somehow (well, yeah, Android phones are all pretty much free), though.
Web usage stats are notoriously unrelated to sales. The larger iPad dominates web usage many times over its actual percentage of sold devices, for example.
They also don't tell us about device usage if someone is into apps more than the web.
Now, personally, I used a 7" Android tablet for surfing the web quite a bit, because it was very portable. (When Jobs famously told his staff that tablets weren't good for anything but surfing the web in the bathroom, he missed a golden opportunity. ANYTHING that engages men in the throne room will sell like hotcakes. - grin- ) So from my standpoint, there was no doubt that the iPad Mini would do very well.
On the other hand, the women in my family (daughters, daughters-in-law, wife) rarely surf the web. They're far more likely to use apps (*). Therefore they would not show up in web usage stats at all.
So think about your family's usage of their devices. Do they actually surf the web and hit major sites that would show up on a survey? Or do they mostly use social apps? Or view movies? Or play games? Or read email? Or engage in IMs or texts?
I do think that for a long time, iOS had a nicer web surfing experience. Now, with Chrome and other browsers, it's more even.
(*) For a couple of years, my youngest daughter would only use Android tablets with Flash, because all her favorite online games were available that way. Now she's moved on to games like Sims, and the iPad. She also uses the YouTube app a lot, and that doesn't use the web either.
The iPad mini is the cheap low-end into Apple's ecosystem; it was expected to fare well for that reason all along. Most people are cheap, they buy Apple mainly for the status, as evidenced by the number of Wi-Fi-only 16GB 9.7" iPads out there. The may be anecdotal evidence, but only other person I know who has a 64Gb iPad with cellular connectivity besides me is my cousin, and that's because his iPad 2 was mine and I sold it to him at half-price when the iPad 3 came out.
What the hell is the point of the 64GB iPad? U no haz computer?
I personally believe the 32G iPad Wifi-only is the best choice, but of course, it's due to my personal requirements. That you have the top of the line gear from Apple's mobile lineup is great for you, and that you feel like bragging it on some forum probably says stuff about you too. However, please abstain from equating "having differing requirements" with "most people are cheap". It's somehow annoying, for some reason.
So say… just… okay, say I buy three tons of fertilizer and dump it… somewhere. Don't use it. Whatever. Then when seed companies come a-callin', they find out I didn't even use the fertilizer. Don't even have a field. I live on an island in the Pacific; zero arable land, no growing conditions.
Think they're gonna waste their time and money shipping some seeds to my local store?
What's the point? Everyone knows you ship your weed directly from Amsterdam anyway.
Web usage stats are notoriously unrelated to sales. The larger iPad dominates web usage many times over its actual percentage of sold devices, for example.
They also don't tell us about device usage if someone is into apps more than the web.
Now, personally, I used a 7" Android tablet for surfing the web quite a bit, because it was very portable. (When Jobs famously told his staff that tablets weren't good for anything but surfing the web in the bathroom, he missed a golden opportunity. ANYTHING that engages men in the throne room will sell like hotcakes. - grin- ) So from my standpoint, there was no doubt that the iPad Mini would do very well.
On the other hand, the women in my family (daughters, daughters-in-law, wife) rarely surf the web. They're far more likely to use apps (*). Therefore they would not show up in web usage stats at all.
So think about your family's usage of their devices. Do they actually surf the web and hit major sites that would show up on a survey? Or do they mostly use social apps? Or view movies? Or play games? Or read email? Or engage in IMs or texts?
I do think that for a long time, iOS had a nicer web surfing experience. Now, with Chrome and other browsers, it's more even.
(*) For a couple of years, my youngest daughter would only use Android tablets with Flash, because all her favorite online games were available that way. Now she's moved on to games like Sims, and the iPad. She also uses the YouTube app a lot, and that doesn't use the web either.
Just thinking out loud.
Just fantasizing out loud would be more accurate.
For your scenario to mirror reality, we'd need to assume that iOS users don't use apps, that most of what they do is surf the web on their devices. Not only is there no evidence to support that notion, it's contrary to what evidence we do have about app usage on iOS, which, if anything, indicates that it's actually heavier, at least in terms of the number of apps users have, than Android. In other words, there isn't even a grain of truth in your post.
And, if you want to look at anecdotal evidence, and apparently you don't want to look at anything else, the Android users I know hardly use apps at all. Most of them are unsophisticated technically and ended up with Android phones because a salesperson at a carrier store convinced them that there was no difference between Android and iOS and they had no base of knowledge from which to evaluate that claim. Most of them switch to iPhones as their contracts run out, apparently to be replaced by the next wave of unsophisticated customers getting their first smartphone.
The bottom line is that the usage stats do matter, and they tell us much more than "activation numbers" what people are doing with their "smartphones".
the wall of the really, REALLY seedy and disgusting motel when you're done using them.
That's the Linux crowd. The people who buy Android devices because iOS is "too restrictive" are the same people (and the same NUMBER of people) that go with Linux because Windows and OS X are "too restrictive".
A- So you're actually their client. I was wondering how they could make a living
B- Most Linux guys I know have iPhones. You go with Linux because it's the best system. You go with iPhone because it's the best phone. And you should not mix the problematics of restrictiveness on computers and on phones, really. They're very differing ideas.
Ive got to say, I love my ipad mini. Its great for email and forums and general consumption of media. Its not so great for creating anything. even making a post on a forum is time consuming.
hopefully apple address this with osx 11 and merge ios and osx into one system
Now imagine how many iPhones with 5 inch screens will Apple sell if they only have the courage to launch such a phone!
A 5" iPhone would not be pocketable in Levi's 501. That's a big deal for me as I don't want a phone holster on my belt for a few reasons one of which is they conflict with auto seat belts. If your fashion style is cargo pants or purse, a 5" phone might be workable. I tend to think a 5" phone is not that easy for one hand use such as dialing or accepting a call, although I have to admit, I have not tried one.
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a Retina 9'7" for a mini. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the mini to replace the full-size makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a DSLR for a Micro 4/3. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the Micro 4/3 to replace the full frame makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a MBP for a MBA. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the MBA to replace the full-size makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a landline for a cell phone. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the cell phone to replace the landline makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a full sized Pontiac for a compact Honda. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the Honda to replace the full-size makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I could go on...but thus far history has shown these kinds of statements are made by reactionary fuddy duddies unwilling to accept that times change.
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a DSLR for a Micro 4/3. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the Micro 4/3 to replace the full frame makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a MBP for a MBA. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the MBA to replace the full-size makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a landline for a cell phone. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the cell phone to replace the landline makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a full sized Pontiac for a compact Honda. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the Honda to replace the full-size makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I could go on...but thus far history has shown these kinds of statements are made by reactionary fuddy duddies unwilling to accept that times change.
Times may change, but fitness for purpose doesn't necessarily change with them. Citing instances where people made choices that were sub-optimal for purpose doesn't prove that they didn't make bad choices or that anyone who doesn't is a "fuddy duddy".
Web usage stats are notoriously unrelated to sales. [...] They also don't tell us about device usage if someone is into apps more than the web.
Interesting point. I hadn't thought of that. I gave up on web surfing on my phone because the constant scrolling and zooming is just such a PITA. That's one of the reasons I would like a bigger screen myself.
Wherever possible, I have installed a dedicated app to do what I would otherwise have to do via the web -- banking, shopping, social media, etc. -- because the interface of the app is invariably better suited to use on a hand-held device.
I gave up on web surfing on my phone because the constant scrolling and zooming is just such a PITA. That's one of the reasons I would like a bigger screen myself.
Wherever possible, I have installed a dedicated app to do what I would otherwise have to do via the web -- banking, shopping, social media, etc. -- because the interface of the app is invariably better suited to use on a hand-held device.
True, that's is what apps are for, amongst other reasons. And I agree with the web, though I mainly read articles and don't really 'browse the web' on my iPhone. So, the reader option is a big welcome, when available in Safari.
You have to wonder if a good number of Android phones sold in "developing markets", which seem to make up the bulk of activations, don't even have data services available.
Or more likely, the data is costly. Of course, phones used in "developing markets" wouldn't show up in the US advertising network stats anyway. If we compare just US web browsing stats for higher end phones, like the iPhone 5 to the GS3, they're much closer, like 56% to 44%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
The bottom line is that the usage stats do matter, and they tell us much more than "activation numbers" what people are doing with their "smartphones".
Full usage stats would matter, but web stats by themselves do not tell much, and in fact often paint a hugely distorted picture. For examples:
Leave out Android completely and just compare iPad to iPhone browsing stats. We all know that iPad users browse like crazy. They make it look as if iPhone users don't use their browser at all, in comparison. In other words, mixing the iPad into the stats throws all the results way off, giving false impressions of super low smartphone usage.
Besides the use of apps and widgets instead of the web, another problem with using advertising network stats is that they totally depend on the HTTP user agent, and on ad downloads.
On Android, it's very easy to set an alternative brower as the default, or to install an ad blocker. A lot of people use Chrome or Firefox, etc, which allow easily turning off "mobile" site viewing by hiding Android/mobile info from the user agent string. Those users would not show up in the ad network stats.
Most importantly, these stats are released for the sole purpose of drumming up paid business for that particular ad network. They're not meant for anything else.
[
A Nexus7 can fit in the back pocket of a pair of 501's. A 5" iPhone wouldn't be a problem.
For some reason I never pictured you as a teenage girl carrying your phone with the shattered screen in your back jeans pocket. Of course I meant front pocket which also kind of depends on your girth as the jeans pockets are proportional to waist size. I wear 34 and the iPhone 5 is as tall as it can be right now. Perhaps there is a bit of width still but I wouldn't want to have to force it into the pocket. There needs to be some space when sitting and for the ability to easily access the phone when necessary. I just can't imagine that a phone bigger than the current iPhone would be comfortable in a front jeans pocket.
Comments
Originally Posted by anonymouse
You have to wonder if a good number of Android phones sold in "developing markets", which seem to make up the bulk of activations, don't even have data services available. Although, even in the U.S., Android is so far behind iOS in, for example, web usage stats that it makes the sales and activation numbers tossed around seem somewhat incredible.
Oh, I'm sure they don't. That's what "developing markets" means, or so they say. Can't afford the data. Can still afford the phone, somehow (well, yeah, Android phones are all pretty much free), though.
Web usage stats are notoriously unrelated to sales. The larger iPad dominates web usage many times over its actual percentage of sold devices, for example.
They also don't tell us about device usage if someone is into apps more than the web.
Now, personally, I used a 7" Android tablet for surfing the web quite a bit, because it was very portable. (When Jobs famously told his staff that tablets weren't good for anything but surfing the web in the bathroom, he missed a golden opportunity. ANYTHING that engages men in the throne room will sell like hotcakes. - grin- ) So from my standpoint, there was no doubt that the iPad Mini would do very well.
On the other hand, the women in my family (daughters, daughters-in-law, wife) rarely surf the web. They're far more likely to use apps (*). Therefore they would not show up in web usage stats at all.
So think about your family's usage of their devices. Do they actually surf the web and hit major sites that would show up on a survey? Or do they mostly use social apps? Or view movies? Or play games? Or read email? Or engage in IMs or texts?
I do think that for a long time, iOS had a nicer web surfing experience. Now, with Chrome and other browsers, it's more even.
(*) For a couple of years, my youngest daughter would only use Android tablets with Flash, because all her favorite online games were available that way. Now she's moved on to games like Sims, and the iPad. She also uses the YouTube app a lot, and that doesn't use the web either.
Just thinking out loud.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
The iPad mini is the cheap low-end into Apple's ecosystem; it was expected to fare well for that reason all along. Most people are cheap, they buy Apple mainly for the status, as evidenced by the number of Wi-Fi-only 16GB 9.7" iPads out there. The may be anecdotal evidence, but only other person I know who has a 64Gb iPad with cellular connectivity besides me is my cousin, and that's because his iPad 2 was mine and I sold it to him at half-price when the iPad 3 came out.
What the hell is the point of the 64GB iPad? U no haz computer?
I personally believe the 32G iPad Wifi-only is the best choice, but of course, it's due to my personal requirements. That you have the top of the line gear from Apple's mobile lineup is great for you, and that you feel like bragging it on some forum probably says stuff about you too. However, please abstain from equating "having differing requirements" with "most people are cheap". It's somehow annoying, for some reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So say… just… okay, say I buy three tons of fertilizer and dump it… somewhere. Don't use it. Whatever. Then when seed companies come a-callin', they find out I didn't even use the fertilizer. Don't even have a field. I live on an island in the Pacific; zero arable land, no growing conditions.
Think they're gonna waste their time and money shipping some seeds to my local store?
What's the point? Everyone knows you ship your weed directly from Amsterdam anyway.
Originally Posted by lightknight
What's the point? Everyone knows you ship your weed directly from Amsterdam anyway.
Where does that fit into the analogy? I can't find it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
Web usage stats are notoriously unrelated to sales. The larger iPad dominates web usage many times over its actual percentage of sold devices, for example.
They also don't tell us about device usage if someone is into apps more than the web.
Now, personally, I used a 7" Android tablet for surfing the web quite a bit, because it was very portable. (When Jobs famously told his staff that tablets weren't good for anything but surfing the web in the bathroom, he missed a golden opportunity. ANYTHING that engages men in the throne room will sell like hotcakes. - grin- ) So from my standpoint, there was no doubt that the iPad Mini would do very well.
On the other hand, the women in my family (daughters, daughters-in-law, wife) rarely surf the web. They're far more likely to use apps (*). Therefore they would not show up in web usage stats at all.
So think about your family's usage of their devices. Do they actually surf the web and hit major sites that would show up on a survey? Or do they mostly use social apps? Or view movies? Or play games? Or read email? Or engage in IMs or texts?
I do think that for a long time, iOS had a nicer web surfing experience. Now, with Chrome and other browsers, it's more even.
(*) For a couple of years, my youngest daughter would only use Android tablets with Flash, because all her favorite online games were available that way. Now she's moved on to games like Sims, and the iPad. She also uses the YouTube app a lot, and that doesn't use the web either.
Just thinking out loud.
Just fantasizing out loud would be more accurate.
For your scenario to mirror reality, we'd need to assume that iOS users don't use apps, that most of what they do is surf the web on their devices. Not only is there no evidence to support that notion, it's contrary to what evidence we do have about app usage on iOS, which, if anything, indicates that it's actually heavier, at least in terms of the number of apps users have, than Android. In other words, there isn't even a grain of truth in your post.
And, if you want to look at anecdotal evidence, and apparently you don't want to look at anything else, the Android users I know hardly use apps at all. Most of them are unsophisticated technically and ended up with Android phones because a salesperson at a carrier store convinced them that there was no difference between Android and iOS and they had no base of knowledge from which to evaluate that claim. Most of them switch to iPhones as their contracts run out, apparently to be replaced by the next wave of unsophisticated customers getting their first smartphone.
The bottom line is that the usage stats do matter, and they tell us much more than "activation numbers" what people are doing with their "smartphones".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
... Most people are cheap, they buy Apple mainly for the status, as evidenced by the number of Wi-Fi-only 16GB 9.7" iPads out there. ...
Please explain why the sales numbers of Wi-Fi-only 16GB 9.7" iPads are evidence that people, "buy Apple mainly for the status."
I'll get the popcorn, because it's going to be entertaining watching you jump through hoops to explain that one away.
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Please explain why the sales numbers of Wi-Fi-only 16GB 9.7" iPads are evidence that people, "buy Apple mainly for the status."
Cheapest source of entry = still being part of the "rich crowd".
That's as close as I can come to an explanation, but we're not in Gilded Age England anymore, so who knows.
I think he means U talk SillyShit, most/some of the time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
the wall of the really, REALLY seedy and disgusting motel when you're done using them.
That's the Linux crowd. The people who buy Android devices because iOS is "too restrictive" are the same people (and the same NUMBER of people) that go with Linux because Windows and OS X are "too restrictive".
A- So you're actually their client. I was wondering how they could make a living
B- Most Linux guys I know have iPhones. You go with Linux because it's the best system. You go with iPhone because it's the best phone. And you should not mix the problematics of restrictiveness on computers and on phones, really. They're very differing ideas.
Its great for email and forums and general consumption of media.
Its not so great for creating anything. even making a post on a forum is time consuming.
hopefully apple address this with osx 11 and merge ios and osx into one system
A 5" iPhone would not be pocketable in Levi's 501. That's a big deal for me as I don't want a phone holster on my belt for a few reasons one of which is they conflict with auto seat belts. If your fashion style is cargo pants or purse, a 5" phone might be workable. I tend to think a 5" phone is not that easy for one hand use such as dialing or accepting a call, although I have to admit, I have not tried one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a Retina 9'7" for a mini. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the mini to replace the full-size makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a DSLR for a Micro 4/3. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the Micro 4/3 to replace the full frame makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a MBP for a MBA. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the MBA to replace the full-size makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a landline for a cell phone. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the cell phone to replace the landline makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a full sized Pontiac for a compact Honda. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the Honda to replace the full-size makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I could go on...but thus far history has shown these kinds of statements are made by reactionary fuddy duddies unwilling to accept that times change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a DSLR for a Micro 4/3. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the Micro 4/3 to replace the full frame makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a MBP for a MBA. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the MBA to replace the full-size makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a landline for a cell phone. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the cell phone to replace the landline makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I've used both. You're out of your mind if you swap a full sized Pontiac for a compact Honda. They definitely serve different purposes, but to choose the Honda to replace the full-size makes me glad I'm not anyone who would make that decision.
I could go on...but thus far history has shown these kinds of statements are made by reactionary fuddy duddies unwilling to accept that times change.
Times may change, but fitness for purpose doesn't necessarily change with them. Citing instances where people made choices that were sub-optimal for purpose doesn't prove that they didn't make bad choices or that anyone who doesn't is a "fuddy duddy".
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
Web usage stats are notoriously unrelated to sales. [...] They also don't tell us about device usage if someone is into apps more than the web.
Interesting point. I hadn't thought of that. I gave up on web surfing on my phone because the constant scrolling and zooming is just such a PITA. That's one of the reasons I would like a bigger screen myself.
Wherever possible, I have installed a dedicated app to do what I would otherwise have to do via the web -- banking, shopping, social media, etc. -- because the interface of the app is invariably better suited to use on a hand-held device.
True, that's is what apps are for, amongst other reasons. And I agree with the web, though I mainly read articles and don't really 'browse the web' on my iPhone. So, the reader option is a big welcome, when available in Safari.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
A 5" iPhone would not be pocketable in Levi's 501.
Depends what you mean by "pocketable." That criterion is important to me, too, so I checked. An S3 fits easily.
If Apple maintains the 16:9 aspect ratio, a 5" screen might be a fair bit taller than an S3 so maybe it would stick out the top of the pocket.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
Depends what you mean by "pocketable." That criterion is important to me, too, so I checked. An S3 fits easily.
If Apple maintains the 16:9 aspect ratio, a 5" screen might be a fair bit taller than an S3 so maybe it would stick out the top of the pocket.
A Nexus7 can fit in the back pocket of a pair of 501's. A 5" iPhone wouldn't be a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
You have to wonder if a good number of Android phones sold in "developing markets", which seem to make up the bulk of activations, don't even have data services available.
Or more likely, the data is costly. Of course, phones used in "developing markets" wouldn't show up in the US advertising network stats anyway. If we compare just US web browsing stats for higher end phones, like the iPhone 5 to the GS3, they're much closer, like 56% to 44%.
Quote:Originally Posted by anonymouse
The bottom line is that the usage stats do matter, and they tell us much more than "activation numbers" what people are doing with their "smartphones".
Full usage stats would matter, but web stats by themselves do not tell much, and in fact often paint a hugely distorted picture. For examples:
Leave out Android completely and just compare iPad to iPhone browsing stats. We all know that iPad users browse like crazy. They make it look as if iPhone users don't use their browser at all, in comparison. In other words, mixing the iPad into the stats throws all the results way off, giving false impressions of super low smartphone usage.
Besides the use of apps and widgets instead of the web, another problem with using advertising network stats is that they totally depend on the HTTP user agent, and on ad downloads.
On Android, it's very easy to set an alternative brower as the default, or to install an ad blocker. A lot of people use Chrome or Firefox, etc, which allow easily turning off "mobile" site viewing by hiding Android/mobile info from the user agent string. Those users would not show up in the ad network stats.
Most importantly, these stats are released for the sole purpose of drumming up paid business for that particular ad network. They're not meant for anything else.
For some reason I never pictured you as a teenage girl carrying your phone with the shattered screen in your back jeans pocket. Of course I meant front pocket which also kind of depends on your girth as the jeans pockets are proportional to waist size. I wear 34 and the iPhone 5 is as tall as it can be right now. Perhaps there is a bit of width still but I wouldn't want to have to force it into the pocket. There needs to be some space when sitting and for the ability to easily access the phone when necessary. I just can't imagine that a phone bigger than the current iPhone would be comfortable in a front jeans pocket.