What I find hilarious is that 1 year ago, when all we had was the iPhone 4S, numerous Apple fan sites conducted polls on how large should Apple make the iPhone screen and there was a WIDE consensus at the time that 4 inches was perfect. A lot of people would have been content with 3.7 inches at the time.
I seem to remember the survey saying that 4" to 4.5" was the perfect size range at that anything over 5" was much too large... but you have to remember that this survey was taken before a lot of people got a good feel of a larger than 4.5" device.
I have a feeling that if Apple releases a higher screen phone, it's all going to be for a marketing gimmick.
Currently, 1080p Smartphones output higher ppi than "Retina" displays, at up to 443 ppi (Some even close to 500 ppi on 6.1 inch displays). I believe that in order to gain some sort of edge on the competition, they're going to want to make a new "Retina" display resolution, and call it "Super Retina" display, or something similar That will give consumer a feeling that their displays are higher resolution than other smartphones, when in reality I doubt any display that comes out will be higher ppi than what current 1080p phones have.
A bigger display would be mean nothing to me personally without bolstered software capabilities to take advantage of the larger display.
A 5", 1080p iPhone that just gives me a couple of icons just isn't that exciting to me. I'm more concerned about iOS7 than iPhone 5S at this point. Cleaning up some of the weaknesses in iOS would be vastly more beneficial to the current and future iphone owners.
I have a feeling that if Apple releases a higher screen phone, it's all going to be for a marketing gimmick.
Currently, 1080p Smartphones output higher ppi than "Retina" displays, at up to 443 ppi (Some even close to 500 ppi on 6.1 inch displays). I believe that in order to gain some sort of edge on the competition, they're going to want to make a new "Retina" display resolution, and call it "Super Retina" display, or something similar That will give consumer a feeling that their displays are higher resolution than other smartphones, when in reality I doubt any display that comes out will be higher ppi than what current 1080p phones have.
I thought retina was a point at which increase in ppi doesnt make a difference anymore
I seem to remember the survey saying that 4" to 4.5" was the perfect size range at that anything over 5" was much too large... but you have to remember that this survey was taken before a lot of people got a good feel of a larger than 4.5" device.
Consumer groups/ surveys aren't the Apple way. Weren't. Shouldn't be.
Nope, there's more than evidence, on this website and everywhere else, that people only look at the price they have to pay upfront. We are talking about people's psyche here, not money. The carrier subsides effectively hide the actual cost of the phone, thus refuting your argument about people not caring about the price increase.
Case in point, some time ago I complained about the price of an iPhone 3GS and was immediately greeted with "What? Isn't $0 cheap enough?".
I didn't say anything about people don't care about price increase. I sure do that's why i make that statement. So please don't twist my word to make you sound right.
On the other hand, you are only talking about European / America market. Do you know the two million launch sales (official) the Chinese carrier charge CNY 5288 for 16GB model? And black market price was at 7000 (the price came down 20 % this month but still a 8% extra on top of apple store price). These are facts.
All I am saying is - apple command such a power that everyone trying to copy. I damn sure is trying every day. But going back a little bit - apple never follow , they lead. This is what got them here in the first place. A bunch of know-it-all making noise all day long. It's entertaining (this is why I am here, to watch a circus) but does it mean anything?
I am sure apple is going to release a different size iPhone. You should see those detail model I got from Shenzhen , the case makers here are very well prepare. But are they going to sacrifice huge profit margin in 2013 by start over again and piss off a 4 billion dollars a years business (accessories) I hope not.
Am I reading the results properly? The larger the hand the longer it took to complete?
Yes, they conclude at the end that it's not so much the hand size but the ability to use a touch screen. They'd probably have to use more people to see if it affected typing but I don't think that's the issue. The smaller hands had to hold the phone right at the tips of their fingers and reposition the phone to reach the top, which makes it more likely they'd drop it. It also shows that people with larger hands don't automatically benefit from it being bigger - they aren't any faster at typing.
It shows that it would need to be redesigned like the Galaxy had to be redesigned to go from the S2 to the S3.
The S3 places the front-facing camera off-centre and has an asymmetric bezel. Apple would have to do the same to match the S3 dimensions and it wouldn't look as nice. I know people think function should exceed form but symmetry is very important.
What's wrong with going back to the original 1.5:1 aspect ratio of the iPhone 4S?
Because they already decided that it's as wide as they want to make it. Making it 16:9 was the only thing they could do to increase the screen size without making it wider in portrait.
Now today you people are saying 4 inches is too small and 5 inches is just right when a year ago NO ONE WAS SAYING THAT. And now you think Apple is "behind the times" when no one was even asking them for a larger than 4 inch screen until now.
What's funny is some people here demand Apple to essentially copy Samsung with larger screens, then are the same people to accuse Apple of copying Samsung, when THAT'S WHAT YOU WANTED THEM TO DO.
Exactly. It'll always be the case though because everybody has their own preference. Samsung wants to have options for everyone and that's up to them but Apple has always tried to offer as few options as possible. Cut anti-glare laptops, cut 17" iMac, cut 17" MBP, cut optical drives, cut the Macbook. If they offered options to suit everyone, they'd end up with a huge catalog of products to support and they have to have manufacturing adjustments for every one of these options.
An iPhone with a 4.8 inch screen would essentially look exactly the same as the Galaxy S3 from the front. Square off the corners slightly and make the home button round and you pretty much have a 4.8 inch iPhone. Exact same height width and everything.
I'd say more like the S2 with the squared off corners but effectively like one of Samsung's designs at which point people will say they copied Samsung because they led the way in big screen phones as you pointed out.
That's not really clear. If the bigger phone is more expensive, it would be less appealing. If it has a higher resolution, it would be slower with the same components and more work for developers. If it has the same resolution, it would have a lower pixel density and wouldn't allow you to do anything more on screen.
People should be aware they've probably tested all sorts of different sizes already, which could well explain supplier reports. They tested out the iPad and felt the same:
"Well, one could increase the resolution of the display to make up for some of the difference. It is meaningless, unless your tablet also includes sandpaper, so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one quarter of the present size. Apple's done extensive user-testing on touch interfaces over many years, and we really understand this stuff. There are clear limits of how close you can physically place elements on a touch screen before users cannot reliably tap, flick or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps."
There are other things like weight and price though that factor into usability and I think the 8" iPad Mini was the right thing to do but I think 7" tablets are too small.
A 7" 16:9 tablet is 45% the area of a 9.7" 4:3 tablet. A 7.9" 4:3 tablet is 67%.
In terms of phones there is clearly a maximum feasible size and all people are debating is what that maximum should be. They either stay conservative to avoid alienating people with an excessively large single model or they have multiple phones and complicate their manufacturing and pricing. I think the 4" screen they have is a good size and I actually think it's at the limit of comfortable one-handed use for most people.
Isn't it grand to live in a bubble where you think you are always the smartest person in the room even when you are quite far from it. Many people in the past were in favor of a larger screen besides me and you and several other prolific posters here always tried to shout them down as if it was the most ludicrous concept ever conceived by man. No one cares about the PPI so give it a rest already. Apple has a lot of people far smarter than you and they will figure out a way to give us a larger iPhone that makes sense.
I don't know why you choose to be so surly and enjoy being so confrontational and condescending. Do me a favor and just ignore all my posts in the future and I will do the same for you. Arguing with an abrasive and intractable know-it-all who is never wrong is tedious and unproductive.
I agree, your criticism has truth to it.
I think that a couple of folks (who are often moderators in this forum) are too smart for their own good...and their intelligence gets in the way of what could be valuable and interesting discussions.
Listen up...some of you have Apple/technology IQs that border on genius. And folks, like me, are not against you. I repeat, we are not against you. We sometimes just have differing opinions that are expressed in different ways. If you have a contrasting opinion, please try to help us understand it without making us feel like we're stupid. 99% of us are not trolls.
P.S. I've been treated pretty good here, but I felt compelled to say this in defense of others.
Cheap (er) plastic model of current '5' in a variety of colours. Go after the iPod teen market... Phones for kids/teens is becoming/has become a massive market. I can't see why it's taken Apple this long to replicate their iPod template.
While I agree with most of your thoughts, I gotta strongly disagree with this one.
I just can't see Apple producing a cheap product at this size... too much risk with product confusion (and brand reputation).
I CAN see producing a cheaper product that differentiates it... like a smaller form factor (flip or iPod nano-sized) phone.
There is a large market for smaller form factor of phones (that are cheaper in both hardware & data plans).
Don't get me wrong, there is always a market for cheap. Apple won't go to all cheap markets. But could selectively enter if there's value to their ecosystem and brand (and profitability, of course).
While I agree with most of your thoughts, I gotta strongly disagree with this one.
I just can't see Apple producing a cheap product at this size... too much risk with product confusion (and brand reputation).
I CAN see producing a cheaper product that differentiates it... like a smaller form factor (flip or iPod nano-sized) phone.
There is a large market for smaller form factor of phones (that are cheaper in both hardware & data plans).
Don't get me wrong, there is always a market for cheap. Apple won't go to all cheap markets. But could selectively enter if there's value to their ecosystem and brand (and profitability, of course).
I think agree with you on this. Hypothetically, they could offer a less expensive product without being 'cheap' in the derogatory sense, and not contradict Phil Schiller's comments. They can make a plastic-backed phone that holds up very well, I thought with the plastic-backed 3G / 3GS models held up very well. It's also possible that they're disowning that heritage in favor of an all metal chassis product line.
What I find hilarious is that 1 year ago, when all we had was the iPhone 4S, numerous Apple fan sites conducted polls on how large should Apple make the iPhone screen and there was a WIDE consensus at the time that 4 inches was perfect. A lot of people would have been content with 3.7 inches at the time.
Well Apple gave us an iPhone with a 4 inch screen and what do we do? Complain and say it's not big enough!
Now today you people are saying 4 inches is too small and 5 inches is just right when a year ago NO ONE WAS SAYING THAT. And now you think Apple is "behind the times" when no one was even asking them for a larger than 4 inch screen until now.
What's funny is some people here demand Apple to essentially copy Samsung with larger screens, then are the same people to accuse Apple of copying Samsung, when THAT'S WHAT YOU WANTED THEM TO DO.
I never said I thought 4" was just right.... In fact as soon as I use a 4.5+ display I knew I preferred it....
Also I suspect many people assumed that a 4" iPhone would have a wider screen. All apple did was add a little to the length.
The funny part is that almost everyone here says that the iPad Mini screen is better than the Nexus 7 because the screen has a wider aspect ratio and that is far superior. However, the same people completely reverse themselves and say the iPhone 5 is better because it is has a narrower screen ratio that the wider format Android phones....
I personally think that the wider screen is why I prefer the larger Android phones. The extra length of the iPhone 5 did not seem to add much in my opinion over the screen in the 4s....
People are not buying bigger screens for the sake of having a bigger screen...
They are buying bigger screens because of the innovation occurring inside the Android OS that lends itself to the need of a bigger screen.
Floating windows, multiple apps running side by side, and all of these going on in combination.
On my note 2 it is common for me to have 2 apps side by side, a floating browser Window, and a floating note Page.
And I may still need desktop access during this to use a widget or see a conference video playing.
Thus a bigger screen is necessary, not just a fad.
When it comes to iphones why do you really need a big screen when you can only run 1 app at a time, and your desktop is basically just the Android appdrawer?
This is why iphones owners see bigger screens as stupid or a joke, because in the world of ios you could operate it on a watch band. It's simple, static, linear, and lens itself to "one thing at a time" use.
Android and ios are worlds apart in use, requirements, and usefulness.
You can laugh all you want and think ios is somehow more innovative than Android.
I think this simple video proves otherwise.
And also process my point about why Android users need a bigger screen.
If I had to take the non-laughable approach, I'd instead say your comments lacked a key message and so made little sense.
Operating iOS on a watch band lacked any logic to the topic at hand...iOS on a watch band would be useless to 99% of the population.
There are probably more people who prefer a 4" (screen) phone than a 5.5" phone.
Just because we want our phones to do more, doesn't mean we want it bigger & with increased weight with reduced battery life.
And your video link showed usage of Android on a PC monitor (and in fast forward nonetheless) using a mouse and a keyboard! What the hell does that have to do with operation of a mobile phone in a mobile situation?
...I can kind of see why TS chuckled.
Perhaps for the 8" screen size...having a split screen or multiple windows would be of more value. I can see using multiple windows on my tablet...but maybe only in one instance per day. Other than that, there's nothing I cannot do in iOS already (like Pandora, maps, phone call) in a "multi-tasking" environment. But still, it doesn't have to be a phone.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook
What I find hilarious is that 1 year ago, when all we had was the iPhone 4S, numerous Apple fan sites conducted polls on how large should Apple make the iPhone screen and there was a WIDE consensus at the time that 4 inches was perfect. A lot of people would have been content with 3.7 inches at the time.
I seem to remember the survey saying that 4" to 4.5" was the perfect size range at that anything over 5" was much too large... but you have to remember that this survey was taken before a lot of people got a good feel of a larger than 4.5" device.
I have a feeling that if Apple releases a higher screen phone, it's all going to be for a marketing gimmick.
Currently, 1080p Smartphones output higher ppi than "Retina" displays, at up to 443 ppi (Some even close to 500 ppi on 6.1 inch displays). I believe that in order to gain some sort of edge on the competition, they're going to want to make a new "Retina" display resolution, and call it "Super Retina" display, or something similar That will give consumer a feeling that their displays are higher resolution than other smartphones, when in reality I doubt any display that comes out will be higher ppi than what current 1080p phones have.
A 5", 1080p iPhone that just gives me a couple of icons just isn't that exciting to me. I'm more concerned about iOS7 than iPhone 5S at this point. Cleaning up some of the weaknesses in iOS would be vastly more beneficial to the current and future iphone owners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez
I have a feeling that if Apple releases a higher screen phone, it's all going to be for a marketing gimmick.
Currently, 1080p Smartphones output higher ppi than "Retina" displays, at up to 443 ppi (Some even close to 500 ppi on 6.1 inch displays). I believe that in order to gain some sort of edge on the competition, they're going to want to make a new "Retina" display resolution, and call it "Super Retina" display, or something similar That will give consumer a feeling that their displays are higher resolution than other smartphones, when in reality I doubt any display that comes out will be higher ppi than what current 1080p phones have.
I thought retina was a point at which increase in ppi doesnt make a difference anymore
Pros:
More customers
Variety
Having a phablet - filling the gap between phones and tablets
don't loose customers because of something as 'irrelevant' as the screen size
Cons
Resolution might not fit
Apple is not the first to do this
More phones => more eventual cannibalization
Breaking tradition with one iPhone per year
As I see it, the pros are reasonable for Companies that want to monetize something.
The cons are more 'emotional', traditional or Apple specific.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
I seem to remember the survey saying that 4" to 4.5" was the perfect size range at that anything over 5" was much too large... but you have to remember that this survey was taken before a lot of people got a good feel of a larger than 4.5" device.
Consumer groups/ surveys aren't the Apple way. Weren't. Shouldn't be.
I didn't say anything about people don't care about price increase. I sure do that's why i make that statement. So please don't twist my word to make you sound right.
On the other hand, you are only talking about European / America market. Do you know the two million launch sales (official) the Chinese carrier charge CNY 5288 for 16GB model? And black market price was at 7000 (the price came down 20 % this month but still a 8% extra on top of apple store price). These are facts.
All I am saying is - apple command such a power that everyone trying to copy. I damn sure is trying every day. But going back a little bit - apple never follow , they lead. This is what got them here in the first place. A bunch of know-it-all making noise all day long. It's entertaining (this is why I am here, to watch a circus) but does it mean anything?
I am sure apple is going to release a different size iPhone. You should see those detail model I got from Shenzhen , the case makers here are very well prepare. But are they going to sacrifice huge profit margin in 2013 by start over again and piss off a 4 billion dollars a years business (accessories) I hope not.
Yes, they conclude at the end that it's not so much the hand size but the ability to use a touch screen. They'd probably have to use more people to see if it affected typing but I don't think that's the issue. The smaller hands had to hold the phone right at the tips of their fingers and reposition the phone to reach the top, which makes it more likely they'd drop it. It also shows that people with larger hands don't automatically benefit from it being bigger - they aren't any faster at typing.
It shows that it would need to be redesigned like the Galaxy had to be redesigned to go from the S2 to the S3.
The S3 places the front-facing camera off-centre and has an asymmetric bezel. Apple would have to do the same to match the S3 dimensions and it wouldn't look as nice. I know people think function should exceed form but symmetry is very important.
Because they already decided that it's as wide as they want to make it. Making it 16:9 was the only thing they could do to increase the screen size without making it wider in portrait.
Exactly. It'll always be the case though because everybody has their own preference. Samsung wants to have options for everyone and that's up to them but Apple has always tried to offer as few options as possible. Cut anti-glare laptops, cut 17" iMac, cut 17" MBP, cut optical drives, cut the Macbook. If they offered options to suit everyone, they'd end up with a huge catalog of products to support and they have to have manufacturing adjustments for every one of these options.
I'd say more like the S2 with the squared off corners but effectively like one of Samsung's designs at which point people will say they copied Samsung because they led the way in big screen phones as you pointed out.
That's not really clear. If the bigger phone is more expensive, it would be less appealing. If it has a higher resolution, it would be slower with the same components and more work for developers. If it has the same resolution, it would have a lower pixel density and wouldn't allow you to do anything more on screen.
People should be aware they've probably tested all sorts of different sizes already, which could well explain supplier reports. They tested out the iPad and felt the same:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/22/ipad-mini-steve-jobs-7in-tablets
"Well, one could increase the resolution of the display to make up for some of the difference. It is meaningless, unless your tablet also includes sandpaper, so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one quarter of the present size. Apple's done extensive user-testing on touch interfaces over many years, and we really understand this stuff. There are clear limits of how close you can physically place elements on a touch screen before users cannot reliably tap, flick or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps."
There are other things like weight and price though that factor into usability and I think the 8" iPad Mini was the right thing to do but I think 7" tablets are too small.
A 7" 16:9 tablet is 45% the area of a 9.7" 4:3 tablet. A 7.9" 4:3 tablet is 67%.
In terms of phones there is clearly a maximum feasible size and all people are debating is what that maximum should be. They either stay conservative to avoid alienating people with an excessively large single model or they have multiple phones and complicate their manufacturing and pricing. I think the 4" screen they have is a good size and I actually think it's at the limit of comfortable one-handed use for most people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
Isn't it grand to live in a bubble where you think you are always the smartest person in the room even when you are quite far from it. Many people in the past were in favor of a larger screen besides me and you and several other prolific posters here always tried to shout them down as if it was the most ludicrous concept ever conceived by man. No one cares about the PPI so give it a rest already. Apple has a lot of people far smarter than you and they will figure out a way to give us a larger iPhone that makes sense.
I don't know why you choose to be so surly and enjoy being so confrontational and condescending. Do me a favor and just ignore all my posts in the future and I will do the same for you. Arguing with an abrasive and intractable know-it-all who is never wrong is tedious and unproductive.
I agree, your criticism has truth to it.
I think that a couple of folks (who are often moderators in this forum) are too smart for their own good...and their intelligence gets in the way of what could be valuable and interesting discussions.
Listen up...some of you have Apple/technology IQs that border on genius. And folks, like me, are not against you. I repeat, we are not against you. We sometimes just have differing opinions that are expressed in different ways. If you have a contrasting opinion, please try to help us understand it without making us feel like we're stupid. 99% of us are not trolls.
P.S. I've been treated pretty good here, but I felt compelled to say this in defense of others.
...carry on...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon.
Cheap (er) plastic model of current '5' in a variety of colours. Go after the iPod teen market... Phones for kids/teens is becoming/has become a massive market. I can't see why it's taken Apple this long to replicate their iPod template.
While I agree with most of your thoughts, I gotta strongly disagree with this one.
I just can't see Apple producing a cheap product at this size... too much risk with product confusion (and brand reputation).
I CAN see producing a cheaper product that differentiates it... like a smaller form factor (flip or iPod nano-sized) phone.
There is a large market for smaller form factor of phones (that are cheaper in both hardware & data plans).
Don't get me wrong, there is always a market for cheap. Apple won't go to all cheap markets. But could selectively enter if there's value to their ecosystem and brand (and profitability, of course).
I think agree with you on this. Hypothetically, they could offer a less expensive product without being 'cheap' in the derogatory sense, and not contradict Phil Schiller's comments. They can make a plastic-backed phone that holds up very well, I thought with the plastic-backed 3G / 3GS models held up very well. It's also possible that they're disowning that heritage in favor of an all metal chassis product line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook
What I find hilarious is that 1 year ago, when all we had was the iPhone 4S, numerous Apple fan sites conducted polls on how large should Apple make the iPhone screen and there was a WIDE consensus at the time that 4 inches was perfect. A lot of people would have been content with 3.7 inches at the time.
Well Apple gave us an iPhone with a 4 inch screen and what do we do? Complain and say it's not big enough!
Now today you people are saying 4 inches is too small and 5 inches is just right when a year ago NO ONE WAS SAYING THAT. And now you think Apple is "behind the times" when no one was even asking them for a larger than 4 inch screen until now.
What's funny is some people here demand Apple to essentially copy Samsung with larger screens, then are the same people to accuse Apple of copying Samsung, when THAT'S WHAT YOU WANTED THEM TO DO.
I never said I thought 4" was just right.... In fact as soon as I use a 4.5+ display I knew I preferred it....
Also I suspect many people assumed that a 4" iPhone would have a wider screen. All apple did was add a little to the length.
The funny part is that almost everyone here says that the iPad Mini screen is better than the Nexus 7 because the screen has a wider aspect ratio and that is far superior. However, the same people completely reverse themselves and say the iPhone 5 is better because it is has a narrower screen ratio that the wider format Android phones....
I personally think that the wider screen is why I prefer the larger Android phones. The extra length of the iPhone 5 did not seem to add much in my opinion over the screen in the 4s....
People are not buying bigger screens for the sake of having a bigger screen...
They are buying bigger screens because of the innovation occurring inside the Android OS that lends itself to the need of a bigger screen.
Floating windows, multiple apps running side by side, and all of these going on in combination.
On my note 2 it is common for me to have 2 apps side by side, a floating browser Window, and a floating note Page.
And I may still need desktop access during this to use a widget or see a conference video playing.
Thus a bigger screen is necessary, not just a fad.
When it comes to iphones why do you really need a big screen when you can only run 1 app at a time, and your desktop is basically just the Android appdrawer?
This is why iphones owners see bigger screens as stupid or a joke, because in the world of ios you could operate it on a watch band. It's simple, static, linear, and lens itself to "one thing at a time" use.
Android and ios are worlds apart in use, requirements, and usefulness.
Originally Posted by truimagz
People are… …buying bigger screens because of the innovation occurring inside the Android OS…
…your desktop is basically just the Android app drawer?
…in the world of iOS you could operate it on a watch band.
Your thinking to much about what the avg gas station clerk needs, and not enough about what a ceo needs from a phone.
It's not often we see posts this hilarious. Kudos.
I think this simple video proves otherwise.
And also process my point about why Android users need a bigger screen.
Please state your qualifications in knowing what a CEO needs. You didn't even capitalize it properly, so I don't believe you know jack about the job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by truimagz
You can laugh all you want and think ios is somehow more innovative than Android.
I think this simple video proves otherwise.
And also process my point about why Android users need a bigger screen.
If I had to take the non-laughable approach, I'd instead say your comments lacked a key message and so made little sense.
Operating iOS on a watch band lacked any logic to the topic at hand...iOS on a watch band would be useless to 99% of the population.
There are probably more people who prefer a 4" (screen) phone than a 5.5" phone.
Just because we want our phones to do more, doesn't mean we want it bigger & with increased weight with reduced battery life.
And your video link showed usage of Android on a PC monitor (and in fast forward nonetheless) using a mouse and a keyboard! What the hell does that have to do with operation of a mobile phone in a mobile situation?
...I can kind of see why TS chuckled.
Perhaps for the 8" screen size...having a split screen or multiple windows would be of more value. I can see using multiple windows on my tablet...but maybe only in one instance per day. Other than that, there's nothing I cannot do in iOS already (like Pandora, maps, phone call) in a "multi-tasking" environment. But still, it doesn't have to be a phone.
I'd expect more from an administrator and moderator.