Did just take 7% of the market with it in Q1, and win 8 is selling almost as fast as win 7. So overall not that bad.
Okay. Yes, Windows 8 licenses are selling almost as fast as win 7. Now, how many of those licenses actually get activated? Microsoft doesn't share those numbers.
I know for a fact that several thousand of them came on stickers on desktops and laptops my company has bought since the launch of Windows 8, and they have all been wiped clean for WinXP / Win7 depending on location and date (we're in mid-migration to Win7 right now, with no plans to go to Windows 8). My company is not the only one doing this.
The Windows 8 sales numbers are not indicative of market uptake at all.
Microsoft seems to forget that everyone basically universally hates PowerPoint presentations. So yeah, not having PowerPoint might actually be a feature.
Microsoft is well aware that Mac users hate PP, or everything else that comes from MS, basically. PC users, however, don't have a problem with it. Considering solid majority of PC users, having PP is definitely at disposal is definitely a feature. For OSX/iOS users who are "lucky" enough not to have MS Office forced on them, it does not matter as they will not purchase W8 tablet, with or without PP.
With due respect to everyone here, this thread is highly representative of what bias can do to one's perception.
If someone you are crushing on wears a short skirt, you'd think her (or his) legs are long, with the right amount of tone and oh so shiny. You'd refuse to see the stubbles and cellulite even if someone pointed them out to you.
If someone you despise wears the same address, you'd only *notice* the not-so-straight knees, even from a long distance, and her (or his) calves would be too muscular or too skinny.
<span style="line-height:1.231;">Of course, to pretend you're not biased, you'd swear up and down that you too wear the same dress. To boot, you'd just happen to be a fashion designer as if such a proclamation would or should shift someone else's optics in an anonymous forum. Yeah, like I am a rocket scientist and Renaissance painter. </span>
It just never occurs to you that objectivity is not finding all good and no wrong in one party, and all wrong and no good in other parties. You're entitled to your opinions. But don't pretend to be rational, fair-minded or knowledgeable.
This is a great ad. If only because of the final 'Oh, **** it, lets just play Chopsticks.' And even that's all screwed up. We all know that iPad can do two things at once, and that it can edit PowerPoint documents (in Keynote and other apps). Also, you can play a cool little piano on iPad, too!
So, when I say it's a great ad, I don't think it actually advertises Microsoft well. It's so hilarious that it makes me want to buy an iPad. Just so I can play the piano. (Because why would I get a Surface? So I can make a PowerPoint presentation? Yeah, fun.)
Yeah, I'm sure majority of potential buyers will have piano playing app very high on their "must-have" lists.
With due respect to everyone here, this thread is highly representative of what bias can do to one's perception.
If someone you are crushing on wears a short skirt, you'd think her (or his) legs are long, with the right amount of tone and oh so shiny. You'd refuse to see the stubbles and cellulite even if someone pointed them out to you.
If someone you despise wears the same address, you'd only *notice* the not-so-straight knees, even from a long distance, and her (or his) calves would be too muscular or too skinny.
Of course, to pretend you're not biased, you'd swear up and down that you too wear the same dress. To boot, you'd just happen to be a fashion designer as if such a proclamation would or should shift someone else's optics in an anonymous forum. Yeah, like I am a rocket scientist and Renaissance painter.
It just never occurs to you that objectivity is not finding all good and no wrong in one party, and all wrong and no good in other parties. You're entitled to your opinions. But don't pretend to be rational, fair-minded or knowledgeable.
Way to go daddy! Why do you "paternalise" me? Is it because you realized that you have absolutely no chance of realistically arguing the fact that this ad is not "exceptionally great"? For sure it might be good, bad, OK depending on your point of view. But definitely not one of the best ads around (or of the year, or of the decade). I don’t know how in your mind this qualifies as "finding all good or bad".
Personally, I find pathetic that Microsoft gives so much eye time to the iPad in it’s own advertisement and simply comes up with a price slap at the end (and to boot, the ad’s aesthetics are a rip-off of Apple’s iPad ads). But I have to confess that I’m from Canada, and the regulations here don’t allow this kind of ads to be presented (portraying a competitor’s product of IP in a ridiculing way and showing price comparisons). And to boot, it is widely frowned upon by the general public.
By the way, what you did there is typical public relations 101 (some call it politics 101); If you know you have no arguments and are destined to "lose" a discussion - start attacking the person’s credibility and present yourself in a superior and authoritative tone.
The point being that Microsoft has no clue when it comes to music and culture? If so, then it's bang on.
Wow, that's deep, man. So basically everyone who purchases iPad and drop piano playing app on it is suddenly music connoisseur.
Funny thing is, many non-Apple users believe that number of Apple users are there because they believe having an Apple product suddenly makes one better in every possible way - smarter, with better taste, Aryan almost.
I believe that to be one ugly stereotype, but every now and then my belief is being challenged.
Is it legal to have a competitors product (Apples iPad in this instance) in your own commercial?
A better question would be if it's intelligent to have a competitor's product in your own commercial.
Originally Posted by Sensi
- Windows will only pause inactive apps, not "apps in the background" but apps doing nothing, neither background activities nor playing a song, etc.
- You can spit windows apps and use two at the same time side by side, the function is called "Windows Snap".
- Another ludicrous invention that I have never ever experienced while working with it daily... My only guess is that your HDD was off (following some power options settings) and that it took a good second to get back on and accessible. But I am digressing because we all know that you never ever tried Windows 8...
Absolutely nothing you have said is truthful in any regard. Windows pauses its Metro applications when they're not in the forefront. Windows Snap is useless for anything beyond a single column chat box or a calculator, as you've said. Guess that's not "true" multitasking, as is so often tossed around. And no, the drive was already spun up.
Originally Posted by nikon133
Honestly, I'm finding it really hard to take TS seriously, more often than not. Bias is just... overwhelming.
You want an effing video, kiddo? Why would I say something like that if it wasn't my daily experience with Windows 8?
With due respect to everyone here, this thread is highly representative of what bias can do to one's perception.
If someone you are crushing on wears a short skirt, you'd think her (or his) legs are long, with the right amount of tone and oh so shiny. You'd refuse to see the stubbles and cellulite even if someone pointed them out to you.
If someone you despise wears the same address, you'd only *notice* the not-so-straight knees, even from a long distance, and her (or his) calves would be too muscular or too skinny.
<span style="line-height:1.231;">Of course, to pretend you're not biased, you'd swear up and down that you too wear the same dress. To boot, you'd just happen to be a fashion designer as if such a proclamation would or should shift someone else's optics in an anonymous forum. Yeah, like I am a rocket scientist and Renaissance painter. </span>
It just never occurs to you that objectivity is not finding all good and no wrong in one party, and all wrong and no good in other parties. You're entitled to your opinions. But don't pretend to be rational, fair-minded or knowledgeable.
Apple's and MS's tablet ads are completely different, especially in how they present the product, so you can't say that people are just throwing out all objectivity for not liking this ad.
The iPad ads I can recall show emotion. They show the device being used in a natural setting. They show why and how this can connect to you people you love. Where the hell was any of this in ad and used superficial and somewhat false measures to compare itself to the iPad? When has Apple ever done this with the iPad?
The only way you could possibly show bias is to use a double-blind test. Switch or remove the Apple and MS logos on the products to see if people will talk up the opposite products. I doubt they would.
Okay. Yes, Windows 8 licenses are selling almost as fast as win 7. Now, how many of those licenses actually get activated? Microsoft doesn't share those numbers.
I know for a fact that several thousand of them came on stickers on desktops and laptops my company has bought since the launch of Windows 8, and they have all been wiped clean for WinXP / Win7 depending on location and date (we're in mid-migration to Win7 right now, with no plans to go to Windows 8). My company is not the only one doing this.
The Windows 8 sales numbers are not indicative of market uptake at all.
For win 8 licenses it is indicative when comparing sales to win 7 as win 7 was subjected to exactly the same thing.
Win8 tablet sales are indicative to other tablet sales as win 7 tablet sales were 0 and all other tablet sales have the same issues.
Actual figures are inaccurate, but as there all inaccurate for everyone, the guess at market shares and rates of selling can actually be compared to evaluate success.
Classic Microsoft, copy an Apple concept but execute it worse. These ads are a feeble copycat of the "I'm a Mac" ads Apple created. The Apple commercials featured two people with clever personalities. Not once did Apple show any Windows products or features in the ads. But in Microsoft's defense, using actors to represent an iPad and Windows tablet would be even harder to pull off given their lack of creativity.
I can't believe I am going to say this here. I must be insane....
I met a guy the other day that had a Surface Pro and loved it. He'd gotten rid of his iPad for it. He preferred it because he was convinced served his purposes better than the iPad. He used it to take pictures and then notate those pictures, which is surely something he could do as well or better on the iPad. Still, he claimed the Surface offered more precision and worked better for the task than the iPad. Is that true or was he simply unable to find the right app on the iPad? I think he probably just didn't find the right app, but he is now convinced the Surface meets his needs better than the iPad.
App discovery is something many people here claim is a "non-issue" on iOS. There's always the chance his experience may be unique, but I am more and more convinced it is a growing problem in iOS. Some people are not going to search and search for the right app. Especially for a businesses, if they walk into a Microsoft Store or Best Buy and someone shows them an app they've always wanted (but could never find), they'll toss their iPad in a minute.
I am convinced this guy likes his Surface simply because he was unable to find the right app on the iPad, but now he perceives the Surface as "better". The number of apps in the App Store is both a blessing and a curse. I believe this is an unintended consequence of Apple's success.
I am not bold enough to say it is going to be iOS's downfall, but I think Microsoft is trying to tap into the frustrations some iPad users have, and I think being unable to find the right app is a big one. Not saying it is a good ad, but I know for a fact that the people they are targeting exists, as I just encountered one of them last week.
I'm sticking with my iPad, but I think Microsoft's approach here might be more on point than people realize. I reserve the right to be wrong. Only time will tell.
(Note: Worth pointing out that what's advertised is NOT the Surface Pro)
Hate to say it, your trolling skills aren’t too sharp I see...
"Out of the park" you say, but you provide absolutely no justificatory comments as to why this would be a "homer" - as if the ad by itself would be self-evident of that fact... but it’s not. This is a comparison advertisement using Apple’s aesthetics to try to steal a bit of Apple's thunder, and that hardly qualifies as "major league" stuff (to keep with your baseball reference). Their primary message is mostly, hey I’m just like an iPad (and if you would go so far as to believe me > even better). But for some reason I can’t seem to present myself to the world without mentioning (and even outright showing) an iPad.
Kind of pathetic if you ask me.
I disagree even though I think Microsoft's Pads are terrible. This ad is addressed towards current PC business users (thus the emphasis on Powerpoint) who haven't bought an iPad yet and are considering a Pad as their next computer. The point of the ad is that Microsoft's device is a serious device that a business person could use and that the iPad is not really suitable for complex tasks - that it's great for playing with silly apps, but for not much else AND that the Microsoft product is less expensive. They're also trying to take Siri out of the equation by implying that it doesn't really work anyway.
Even if Microsoft's argument is at least partially false, I think the ad is very effective. Having said that, I think the Apple ads that show a large variety of apps for the iPad are far more effective. I'm not sure how much "live tile updating" hits home with a business user.
While Keynote is far superior to Powerpoint, people like to stick with what they know. People don't trust, "well you can save it as a Powerpoint file anyway."
I've actually been surprised that Microsoft hasn't sold more than they have. Seems to me that if you're a business person who never made any transition to Apple's products and you want a portable device to carry around to do email, Word, Excel and Powerpoint, plus a little web surfing, the easiest course of action is to go with a Microsoft product. Sort of like the old "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" mantra.
But it might be too late. Apple has defined what a Pad should be and when people think of one, even if they think of a competitor's, they think of it as an "iPad". But having said that, to protect the future, I think Apple needs a major upgrade of the look, feel and actions of OSX and iOS. I think they're lagging.
App discovery is something many people here claim is a "non-issue" on iOS. There's always the chance his experience may be unique, but I am more and more convinced it is a growing problem in iOS. Some people are not going to search and search for the right app. Especially for a businesses, if they walk into a Microsoft Store or Best Buy and someone shows them an app they've always wanted (but could never find), they'll toss their iPad in a minute.
I agree with you about "discovery". I think this is a problem for both media and apps. If you know what you want, it's easy, but if you're looking for "new music that I would like" or "the best app to do X", I don't think Apple has ever solved the problem of how to find the best when there's a hundred thousand apps and millions of music tracks. The best physical record stores weren't the ones that were the largest, they were the ones that curated the best. Same for bookstores. We seem to have forgotten what benefits curation provides.
If Apple curated, people would cry "censorship". But IMO, it could be a far better experience. Why do I want to be plagued with a long list of apps that most people consider to be junk? Also, even at just a few dollars an app (as miraculous as that is), it's very frustrating to buy an app, spend a few minutes with it and then think, "this is useless crap."
As for walking into a Microsoft store, I wasn't very impressed when I walked into the Times Square store, with the exception of one app they showed me for a Windows Phone which looked at signage and translated it (don't know if there's an iOS app that does the same). And no one at Best Buy is showing anyone a great app because their sales people are completely incompetent, most of the machines are locked to not actually do anything and if they actually demoed at all, which would be a miracle, it would only be the apps that are already on the machine. And Best Buy is in deep trouble anyway.
IMO, you can survive today as a warehouse store (like a BJs or Costco) or as an "environment" store, which has knowledgeable sales people and full demo capability, but you can no longer be in the middle - just a bunch of stuff on shelves mostly not plugged in or barely operational, except for walls filled with uncalibrated, look-alike TVs, which is what Best Buy and stores like it are. The only reason why Best Buy has survived as long as it has is that in some areas, it's Best Buy or Walmart. All the other physical competition is gone.
OH NO! iPad doesn;t run PowerPoint? The world is going to end!!! PP is the worst application EVER!!!!
That's not the point. I also think Word is a terrible app. The point is that those apps dominate in the business world for better or worse. At one point, I thought I would give up Office and use Apple's apps instead, but even though there's a certain level of compatibility, it's impossible. If I know I'm bringing my Mac along, I'll use Keynote, because it blows people away as compared with Powerpoint, but if it's a document that I have to share with other people, it has to be PP.
Word does all kinds of terrible things when it tries to "help" you. You tell it to paste in target format and it doesn't do it. You choose a Style and it frequently works, but it also frequently changes that style to other than you've defined it. Sometimes, it just refuses to do outline numbering the way you want it. As documents get long, it doesn't perform well. And yet, for documents that have to be shared, there's really no choice. And recent versions go off into space and tell you that it's "not responding" whenever it does a backup save.
And while Numbers does have the ability to overlay different grids on top of each other, which is fantastic and unique, it lacks so many other features that Excel has that I don't find it efficient for anything sophisticated.
So if you don't have to communicate with office workers or corporations and you just create docs for yourself, you don't need Office. When I give up working, I'll probably throw Office in the Trash. But otherwise, you do.
As for walking into a Microsoft store, I wasn't very impressed when I walked into the Times Square store, with the exception of one app they showed me for a Windows Phone which looked at signage and translated it (don't know if there's an iOS app that does the same). And no one at Best Buy is showing anyone a great app because their sales people are completely incompetent, most of the machines are locked to not actually do anything and if they actually demoed at all, which would be a miracle, it would only be the apps that are already on the machine. And Best Buy is in deep trouble anyway.
I'll be honest, this guy was a paid consultant. We had a discussion about his Surface, why he loved it, and why he gave up his iPad, but I did not ask a lot of questions as time was money. He did make it clear he never found a comparable app on the iPad. Perhaps he discovered the Surface app on his own, or someone may have recommended it. I've never been into a Microsoft Store and I am definitely not a fan of Best Buy. They were just examples, and perhaps bad ones.
But IS a 64GB iPad really comparable to the Windows RT tablet, which only has about 23GB of usable space? And why can't Microsoft get over the notion that we're all just waiting for a device on which to do "work"?
I still don't understand why people are so desperate to use MS Office on such a small screen. What is so wonderful about editing PP presentations or complex spreadsheets on such small screen real estate? Sure you can do it I guess, but would you really want to?
I can't believe I am going to say this here. I must be insane....
I met a guy the other day that had a Surface Pro and loved it. He'd gotten rid of his iPad for it. He preferred it because he was convinced served his purposes better than the iPad. He used it to take pictures and then notate those pictures, which is surely something he could do as well or better on the iPad. Still, he claimed the Surface offered more precision and worked better for the task than the iPad. Is that true or was he simply unable to find the right app on the iPad? I think he probably just didn't find the right app, but he is now convinced the Surface meets his needs better than the iPad.
I have no doubt, that for a small percentage of people, most of which would be in professional settings with specific needs, the Surface may very well suit their needs better than an iPad. Especially with the pressure sensitive screen, as the guy needed to annotate as you state. For him the Surface may be a better suited tool.
The point is that for MOST people, the iPad will suit their needs in a more intuitive way, and is a better overall device. From size, weight, battery life, stability, responsiveness, intuitiveness, ecosystem, etc etc.
Wow, that's deep, man. So basically everyone who purchases iPad and drop piano playing app on it is suddenly music connoisseur.
Funny thing is, many non-Apple users believe that number of Apple users are there because they believe having an Apple product suddenly makes one better in every possible way - smarter, with better taste, Aryan almost.
I believe that to be one ugly stereotype, but every now and then my belief is being challenged.
First, what does being Aryan have to do with this?
Second, if you actually read what I said, I didn't make any comments or generalizations about the users of iPads or Surfaces, I made a comment about Microsoft (the company) being culturally ignorant. Remember Songsmith? Enough said.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84
Did just take 7% of the market with it in Q1, and win 8 is selling almost as fast as win 7. So overall not that bad.
Okay. Yes, Windows 8 licenses are selling almost as fast as win 7. Now, how many of those licenses actually get activated? Microsoft doesn't share those numbers.
I know for a fact that several thousand of them came on stickers on desktops and laptops my company has bought since the launch of Windows 8, and they have all been wiped clean for WinXP / Win7 depending on location and date (we're in mid-migration to Win7 right now, with no plans to go to Windows 8). My company is not the only one doing this.
The Windows 8 sales numbers are not indicative of market uptake at all.
Microsoft is well aware that Mac users hate PP, or everything else that comes from MS, basically. PC users, however, don't have a problem with it. Considering solid majority of PC users, having PP is definitely at disposal is definitely a feature. For OSX/iOS users who are "lucky" enough not to have MS Office forced on them, it does not matter as they will not purchase W8 tablet, with or without PP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso
Not an MS lover, But the mangled chopsticks was "the point".
The point being that Microsoft has no clue when it comes to music and culture? If so, then it's bang on.
Interesting analogy...
Yeah, I'm sure majority of potential buyers will have piano playing app very high on their "must-have" lists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent
With due respect to everyone here, this thread is highly representative of what bias can do to one's perception.
If someone you are crushing on wears a short skirt, you'd think her (or his) legs are long, with the right amount of tone and oh so shiny. You'd refuse to see the stubbles and cellulite even if someone pointed them out to you.
If someone you despise wears the same address, you'd only *notice* the not-so-straight knees, even from a long distance, and her (or his) calves would be too muscular or too skinny.
Of course, to pretend you're not biased, you'd swear up and down that you too wear the same dress. To boot, you'd just happen to be a fashion designer as if such a proclamation would or should shift someone else's optics in an anonymous forum. Yeah, like I am a rocket scientist and Renaissance painter.
It just never occurs to you that objectivity is not finding all good and no wrong in one party, and all wrong and no good in other parties. You're entitled to your opinions. But don't pretend to be rational, fair-minded or knowledgeable.
Way to go daddy! Why do you "paternalise" me? Is it because you realized that you have absolutely no chance of realistically arguing the fact that this ad is not "exceptionally great"? For sure it might be good, bad, OK depending on your point of view. But definitely not one of the best ads around (or of the year, or of the decade). I don’t know how in your mind this qualifies as "finding all good or bad".
Personally, I find pathetic that Microsoft gives so much eye time to the iPad in it’s own advertisement and simply comes up with a price slap at the end (and to boot, the ad’s aesthetics are a rip-off of Apple’s iPad ads). But I have to confess that I’m from Canada, and the regulations here don’t allow this kind of ads to be presented (portraying a competitor’s product of IP in a ridiculing way and showing price comparisons). And to boot, it is widely frowned upon by the general public.
By the way, what you did there is typical public relations 101 (some call it politics 101); If you know you have no arguments and are destined to "lose" a discussion - start attacking the person’s credibility and present yourself in a superior and authoritative tone.
Wow, that's deep, man. So basically everyone who purchases iPad and drop piano playing app on it is suddenly music connoisseur.
Funny thing is, many non-Apple users believe that number of Apple users are there because they believe having an Apple product suddenly makes one better in every possible way - smarter, with better taste, Aryan almost.
I believe that to be one ugly stereotype, but every now and then my belief is being challenged.
Originally Posted by simtub
Is it legal to have a competitors product (Apples iPad in this instance) in your own commercial?
A better question would be if it's intelligent to have a competitor's product in your own commercial.
Originally Posted by Sensi
- Windows will only pause inactive apps, not "apps in the background" but apps doing nothing, neither background activities nor playing a song, etc.
- You can spit windows apps and use two at the same time side by side, the function is called "Windows Snap".
- Another ludicrous invention that I have never ever experienced while working with it daily... My only guess is that your HDD was off (following some power options settings) and that it took a good second to get back on and accessible. But I am digressing because we all know that you never ever tried Windows 8...
Absolutely nothing you have said is truthful in any regard. Windows pauses its Metro applications when they're not in the forefront. Windows Snap is useless for anything beyond a single column chat box or a calculator, as you've said. Guess that's not "true" multitasking, as is so often tossed around. And no, the drive was already spun up.
Originally Posted by nikon133
Honestly, I'm finding it really hard to take TS seriously, more often than not. Bias is just... overwhelming.
You want an effing video, kiddo? Why would I say something like that if it wasn't my daily experience with Windows 8?
Apple's and MS's tablet ads are completely different, especially in how they present the product, so you can't say that people are just throwing out all objectivity for not liking this ad.
The iPad ads I can recall show emotion. They show the device being used in a natural setting. They show why and how this can connect to you people you love. Where the hell was any of this in ad and used superficial and somewhat false measures to compare itself to the iPad? When has Apple ever done this with the iPad?
The only way you could possibly show bias is to use a double-blind test. Switch or remove the Apple and MS logos on the products to see if people will talk up the opposite products. I doubt they would.
Win8 tablet sales are indicative to other tablet sales as win 7 tablet sales were 0 and all other tablet sales have the same issues.
Actual figures are inaccurate, but as there all inaccurate for everyone, the guess at market shares and rates of selling can actually be compared to evaluate success.
I can't believe I am going to say this here. I must be insane....
I met a guy the other day that had a Surface Pro and loved it. He'd gotten rid of his iPad for it. He preferred it because he was convinced served his purposes better than the iPad. He used it to take pictures and then notate those pictures, which is surely something he could do as well or better on the iPad. Still, he claimed the Surface offered more precision and worked better for the task than the iPad. Is that true or was he simply unable to find the right app on the iPad? I think he probably just didn't find the right app, but he is now convinced the Surface meets his needs better than the iPad.
App discovery is something many people here claim is a "non-issue" on iOS. There's always the chance his experience may be unique, but I am more and more convinced it is a growing problem in iOS. Some people are not going to search and search for the right app. Especially for a businesses, if they walk into a Microsoft Store or Best Buy and someone shows them an app they've always wanted (but could never find), they'll toss their iPad in a minute.
I am convinced this guy likes his Surface simply because he was unable to find the right app on the iPad, but now he perceives the Surface as "better". The number of apps in the App Store is both a blessing and a curse. I believe this is an unintended consequence of Apple's success.
I am not bold enough to say it is going to be iOS's downfall, but I think Microsoft is trying to tap into the frustrations some iPad users have, and I think being unable to find the right app is a big one. Not saying it is a good ad, but I know for a fact that the people they are targeting exists, as I just encountered one of them last week.
I'm sticking with my iPad, but I think Microsoft's approach here might be more on point than people realize. I reserve the right to be wrong. Only time will tell.
(Note: Worth pointing out that what's advertised is NOT the Surface Pro)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juil
Hate to say it, your trolling skills aren’t too sharp I see...
"Out of the park" you say, but you provide absolutely no justificatory comments as to why this would be a "homer" - as if the ad by itself would be self-evident of that fact... but it’s not. This is a comparison advertisement using Apple’s aesthetics to try to steal a bit of Apple's thunder, and that hardly qualifies as "major league" stuff (to keep with your baseball reference). Their primary message is mostly, hey I’m just like an iPad (and if you would go so far as to believe me > even better). But for some reason I can’t seem to present myself to the world without mentioning (and even outright showing) an iPad.
Kind of pathetic if you ask me.
I disagree even though I think Microsoft's Pads are terrible. This ad is addressed towards current PC business users (thus the emphasis on Powerpoint) who haven't bought an iPad yet and are considering a Pad as their next computer. The point of the ad is that Microsoft's device is a serious device that a business person could use and that the iPad is not really suitable for complex tasks - that it's great for playing with silly apps, but for not much else AND that the Microsoft product is less expensive. They're also trying to take Siri out of the equation by implying that it doesn't really work anyway.
Even if Microsoft's argument is at least partially false, I think the ad is very effective. Having said that, I think the Apple ads that show a large variety of apps for the iPad are far more effective. I'm not sure how much "live tile updating" hits home with a business user.
While Keynote is far superior to Powerpoint, people like to stick with what they know. People don't trust, "well you can save it as a Powerpoint file anyway."
I've actually been surprised that Microsoft hasn't sold more than they have. Seems to me that if you're a business person who never made any transition to Apple's products and you want a portable device to carry around to do email, Word, Excel and Powerpoint, plus a little web surfing, the easiest course of action is to go with a Microsoft product. Sort of like the old "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" mantra.
But it might be too late. Apple has defined what a Pad should be and when people think of one, even if they think of a competitor's, they think of it as an "iPad". But having said that, to protect the future, I think Apple needs a major upgrade of the look, feel and actions of OSX and iOS. I think they're lagging.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednival
App discovery is something many people here claim is a "non-issue" on iOS. There's always the chance his experience may be unique, but I am more and more convinced it is a growing problem in iOS. Some people are not going to search and search for the right app. Especially for a businesses, if they walk into a Microsoft Store or Best Buy and someone shows them an app they've always wanted (but could never find), they'll toss their iPad in a minute.
I agree with you about "discovery". I think this is a problem for both media and apps. If you know what you want, it's easy, but if you're looking for "new music that I would like" or "the best app to do X", I don't think Apple has ever solved the problem of how to find the best when there's a hundred thousand apps and millions of music tracks. The best physical record stores weren't the ones that were the largest, they were the ones that curated the best. Same for bookstores. We seem to have forgotten what benefits curation provides.
If Apple curated, people would cry "censorship". But IMO, it could be a far better experience. Why do I want to be plagued with a long list of apps that most people consider to be junk? Also, even at just a few dollars an app (as miraculous as that is), it's very frustrating to buy an app, spend a few minutes with it and then think, "this is useless crap."
As for walking into a Microsoft store, I wasn't very impressed when I walked into the Times Square store, with the exception of one app they showed me for a Windows Phone which looked at signage and translated it (don't know if there's an iOS app that does the same). And no one at Best Buy is showing anyone a great app because their sales people are completely incompetent, most of the machines are locked to not actually do anything and if they actually demoed at all, which would be a miracle, it would only be the apps that are already on the machine. And Best Buy is in deep trouble anyway.
IMO, you can survive today as a warehouse store (like a BJs or Costco) or as an "environment" store, which has knowledgeable sales people and full demo capability, but you can no longer be in the middle - just a bunch of stuff on shelves mostly not plugged in or barely operational, except for walls filled with uncalibrated, look-alike TVs, which is what Best Buy and stores like it are. The only reason why Best Buy has survived as long as it has is that in some areas, it's Best Buy or Walmart. All the other physical competition is gone.
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Originally Posted by storneo
OH NO! iPad doesn;t run PowerPoint? The world is going to end!!! PP is the worst application EVER!!!!
That's not the point. I also think Word is a terrible app. The point is that those apps dominate in the business world for better or worse. At one point, I thought I would give up Office and use Apple's apps instead, but even though there's a certain level of compatibility, it's impossible. If I know I'm bringing my Mac along, I'll use Keynote, because it blows people away as compared with Powerpoint, but if it's a document that I have to share with other people, it has to be PP.
Word does all kinds of terrible things when it tries to "help" you. You tell it to paste in target format and it doesn't do it. You choose a Style and it frequently works, but it also frequently changes that style to other than you've defined it. Sometimes, it just refuses to do outline numbering the way you want it. As documents get long, it doesn't perform well. And yet, for documents that have to be shared, there's really no choice. And recent versions go off into space and tell you that it's "not responding" whenever it does a backup save.
And while Numbers does have the ability to overlay different grids on top of each other, which is fantastic and unique, it lacks so many other features that Excel has that I don't find it efficient for anything sophisticated.
So if you don't have to communicate with office workers or corporations and you just create docs for yourself, you don't need Office. When I give up working, I'll probably throw Office in the Trash. But otherwise, you do.
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Originally Posted by zoetmb
As for walking into a Microsoft store, I wasn't very impressed when I walked into the Times Square store, with the exception of one app they showed me for a Windows Phone which looked at signage and translated it (don't know if there's an iOS app that does the same). And no one at Best Buy is showing anyone a great app because their sales people are completely incompetent, most of the machines are locked to not actually do anything and if they actually demoed at all, which would be a miracle, it would only be the apps that are already on the machine. And Best Buy is in deep trouble anyway.
I'll be honest, this guy was a paid consultant. We had a discussion about his Surface, why he loved it, and why he gave up his iPad, but I did not ask a lot of questions as time was money. He did make it clear he never found a comparable app on the iPad. Perhaps he discovered the Surface app on his own, or someone may have recommended it. I've never been into a Microsoft Store and I am definitely not a fan of Best Buy. They were just examples, and perhaps bad ones.
I still don't understand why people are so desperate to use MS Office on such a small screen. What is so wonderful about editing PP presentations or complex spreadsheets on such small screen real estate? Sure you can do it I guess, but would you really want to?
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Originally Posted by rednival
I can't believe I am going to say this here. I must be insane....
I met a guy the other day that had a Surface Pro and loved it. He'd gotten rid of his iPad for it. He preferred it because he was convinced served his purposes better than the iPad. He used it to take pictures and then notate those pictures, which is surely something he could do as well or better on the iPad. Still, he claimed the Surface offered more precision and worked better for the task than the iPad. Is that true or was he simply unable to find the right app on the iPad? I think he probably just didn't find the right app, but he is now convinced the Surface meets his needs better than the iPad.
I have no doubt, that for a small percentage of people, most of which would be in professional settings with specific needs, the Surface may very well suit their needs better than an iPad. Especially with the pressure sensitive screen, as the guy needed to annotate as you state. For him the Surface may be a better suited tool.
The point is that for MOST people, the iPad will suit their needs in a more intuitive way, and is a better overall device. From size, weight, battery life, stability, responsiveness, intuitiveness, ecosystem, etc etc.
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Originally Posted by nikon133
Wow, that's deep, man. So basically everyone who purchases iPad and drop piano playing app on it is suddenly music connoisseur.
Funny thing is, many non-Apple users believe that number of Apple users are there because they believe having an Apple product suddenly makes one better in every possible way - smarter, with better taste, Aryan almost.
I believe that to be one ugly stereotype, but every now and then my belief is being challenged.
First, what does being Aryan have to do with this?
Second, if you actually read what I said, I didn't make any comments or generalizations about the users of iPads or Surfaces, I made a comment about Microsoft (the company) being culturally ignorant. Remember Songsmith? Enough said.