judging from what Motorola is doing, it wouldn't surprise me if one day Google just spit out a version of Android and Samsung did Tizen that was the extent of Android. HTC isn't making any money, NEC dumped their Android products, and I don't if anyone else is making any decent profits. Me too products generally don't last long.
Would you go into a line of business to only break even or make 1 to 5% net profit and never be able to be the market leader in control over the technology?
It's $50 more on Google Play. His was got at full price in t-mobile store for $600, using their $25/week for 2 years purchase plan. Personally I think the extra $50 would have been worth it, since the only one available on play store is 16GB/White, which is the model he wanted anyhow.
Personally, I would have recommended the Google Edition of the HTC One over the Google Edition of the Galaxy S4.
Both of them already have the Android 4.3 update. If you can, root his device and install the Google Edition software as soon as possible.
The Nexus 4 going from 4.2.2 to 4.3 already had a nice performance jump (battery too). I could imagine the difference between stock 4.3 and Samsung's skinned 4.2.2 would be quite large. Android 4.3 also adds native GLES3 support, which is a nice perk.
Actually a couple of million. Similar to the number of Nexus fans. Nexus 4 sold 1 million units, Nexus 7 sold 7 million units, and the Nexus 10 sold (they won't post the amount since it's too small of a number).
I've understood Nexus devices to be used to introduce new OS versions and hardware standards and not intended as high volume commercial successes. But perhaps MS was doing the same with the Surface.
I've understood Nexus devices to be used to introduce new OS versions and hardware standards and not intended as high volume commercial successes. But perhaps MS was doing the same with the Surface.
Exactly this. Nexus and Surface devices are not made for mass production. Google and Microsoft are not trying to get into competition with their OEMs.
Google did a pretty good job with their Nexus line of devices, meanwhile Microsoft did just about everything wrong.
What Microsoft should have done was waited until this year to launch Surface devices running Windows 8.1. A Basic model using Intel's brand new Bay Trail architecture and a Pro model using fanless Haswell (Y-Series). This way they can be lightweight, offer a long battery life as well as the performance needed for a full version of Windows 8.1.
The push on Windows RT was destined for failure. ARM inside a tablet is a losing battle, X86 is here.
As a result, the Surface RT had a nice build, but horrible performance and a useless version of Windows.
Meanwhile, the Surface Pro used powerful hardware but forgot it was meant to be a tablet, ie. the kind of device made for mobile versatility.
Is Tizen going to run Android Apps? If not, then aren't they going to face an uphill battle with developers who don't want to port their applications to a new OS? Without the core apps, who is going to buy these phones?
I agree that the more ecosystems the better for Apple, and I would love to see Samsung dump Android, but it seems like the lack of apps would be a huge issue for them...
I'm not so sure. Annecdotally, it seems likely that the bulk of Android customers barely know what an app is, let alone care. Most people are just buying whatever new phone the salesman at the service provider store pushes on them, which more & more are Samsung smartphones with Android. If Samsung goes all out with Tizen, especially in the low & mid range markets, it will become the #2 system and push Android to #3 overnight, even if there isn't one single third party app available. This has got to be Google's worst nightmare right now.
I'm trying to see an upside for it, I'm guessing it will be the only phone that will tell me that my Scamsung fridge door is ajar .... But I will pass thanks.
Here's an upside: No longer will a zillion Android phone manufacturers be able to combine their sales with Samsung and claim dominance of the phone market over Apple's iOS. Samsung's Tizen and Android can duke it out over second and third place. Another side benefit is that Google will be drawn into combatting Samsung's Tizen with their own MotoMo Android OS, distracting Google's management further from their core search business. This will weaken Google's bottom linemakiing Apple stronger by comparison.
Samsung, like Sony, has no idea what their customers want. Their idea of marketing is to make a lot of models and see what slides off the wall with a wet plop.
judging from what Motorola is doing, it wouldn't surprise me if one day Google just spit out a version of Android and Samsung did Tizen that was the extent of Android. HTC isn't making any money, NEC dumped their Android products, and I don't if anyone else is making any decent profits. Me too products generally don't last long.
Would you go into a line of business to only break even or make 1 to 5% net profit and never be able to be the market leader in control over the technology?
To answer your closing question: I think Google would be ecstatic to break even with Motorola. It's costing them several hundred million per quarter currently.
Keep also in mind that Google's Attention-Deficit management is already bored of Android and wanting to move onto playing with Chrome. There is really no long-term thinking at Samsung or Google/MotoMo.
Alien Dalvik and other ports of the Dalvik VM enables most Android apps to run on Meego, Maemo, BlackBerry OS 10, iOS (yes, you can run Android apps on Apple devices if you're jailbroken and install Alien Dalvik), etc... So running Android apps on Tizen shouldn't be a problem...
Throwing another layer of lag into the mix probably won't even be noticed by Samsung phone users.
To be honest, I don't mind the homescreen. Everything else looks pretty crap. Does this mean Samsung will sell phones with 4 5 different operating systems? Tizen, Android, Windows Phone, Bada and that other one they use on the really low end phones... if so it sounds like a great way to make an awesome ecosystem /s
I've understood Nexus devices to be used to introduce new OS versions and hardware standards and not intended as high volume commercial successes. But perhaps MS was doing the same with the Surface.
First off, Google and Microsoft, just like Samsung, and others make these products first and foremost for their own employees. Years before the Surface, Microsoft employees were buying iPads and using them at work. What do you think Microsoft is going to do? prevent Apple products from being used amongst Microsoft employees, especially when there are sales reps doing presentations. The last thing they want is the company using a competitors product that doesn't run Office, because Microsoft's too stupid to port it over.
Now, Google has their own internal developers that need to test code, etc. Google has these Nexus product for their employees and they probably make enough to sell to break even since they are just private label jobs and there really isn't anything THAT special about them other than they are cheap with maybe a decent spec here and there.
Now with Microsoft, they are spending TONS of money in advertising for the Surface, unlike Google for the Nexus. I think Microsoft is spending somewhere around $500 Mil on tv ads, etc. That's not chump change in the advertising world. Nexus wasn't promoted nearly as much.
What is dumb is that the media shouldn't hype the Nexus product that much since it's not a product Google expects to make much money on. And it's NOT a high end product, it's medium grade product.
Microsoft screwed up in a lot of ways and if Windows 8 doesn't take off within 2 years to the point where they have successfully taken 50% marketshare within their own platform, they will be in deep trouble. And what is WIndows 9 going to look like and when is that scheduled to be released? Is Microsoft going to constantly changing the UI because each time they do something, it doesn't work? Vista is basically telling everyone, XP sucked, then Windows 7 tells everyone that WIndows Vista sucked, etc. etc. because Microsoft changes the product drastically rather than improving on what really works. OS X looks from first sight the same as it always has, for the most part, but digging inside you know it's different. Sure, I think Apple's due for a theme change, but not drastically changing the GUI so that the work flow is completely different like Windows 8.
What is dumb is that the media shouldn't hype the Nexus product that much since it's not a product Google expects to make much money on. And it's NOT a high end product, it's medium grade product.
I would argue that.
The Nexus 4 was the sister phone to the LG's Optimus G flagship. At the time of launch, the Snapdragon S4 Pro was the most powerful SoC inside of a phone. It came with just about every feature expected of a flagship device. The only drawback was the lack of LTE support on many networks (although never advertised, the Nexus 4 could run on select LTE bands).
The Nexus 10 was the first Android tablet to introduce a resolution beyond 1920x1200. It housed Samsung's Exynos 5250 which was the first SoC to market with ARM's Cortex A15 (ARMv8), and LPDDR3 memory. It was also the first SoC (and still is) to use ARM's Mali T600 series, the Mali-T604.
The first Nexus 7 is the only mid~high range product. Tegra 3 (2012 model) and Snapdragon S4 Pro (2013 model) had both been on the market for quite sometime before the launch of the Nexus 7. To the Nexus 7's defence, it was the first full feature 7inch tablet, and is now the first high resolution 7inch tablet.
If rumours of the Nexus 5 are true, the LG G2 (being announced tomorrow morning) will be the sister phone, and it uses a 1080p display combined with Qualcomm's Snapdragon 800 + LTE-Advanced. So once again it will be a top of the line device.
I've understood Nexus devices to be used to introduce new OS versions and hardware standards and not intended as high volume commercial successes. But perhaps MS was doing the same with the Surface.
Nonsense. Google sells Nexus devices by the millions and makes absolutely no effort to limit their sale. They'd be happy to take all the sales they can get. "Not intended as a commercial success" is total BS. Google goes out of its way to sell as many Nexus devices as they can with full advertising and so on.
The Nexus 4 was the sister phone to the LG's Optimus G flagship. At the time of launch, the Snapdragon S4 Pro was the most powerful SoC inside of a phone. It came with just about every feature expected of a flagship device. The only drawback was the lack of LTE support on many networks (although never advertised, the Nexus 4 could run on select LTE bands).
The Nexus 10 was the first Android tablet to introduce a resolution beyond 1920x1200. It housed Samsung's Exynos 5250 which was the first SoC to market with ARM's Cortex A15 (ARMv8), and LPDDR3 memory. It was also the first SoC (and still is) to use ARM's Mali T600 series, the Mali-T604.
The first Nexus 7 is the only mid~high range product. Tegra 3 (2012 model) and Snapdragon S4 Pro (2013 model) had both been on the market for quite sometime before the launch of the Nexus 7. To the Nexus 7's defence, it was the first full feature 7inch tablet, and is now the first high resolution 7inch tablet.
If rumours of the Nexus 5 are true, the LG G2 (being announced tomorrow morning) will be the sister phone, and it uses a 1080p display combined with Qualcomm's Snapdragon 800 + LTE-Advanced. So once again it will be a top of the line device.
The camera is horrible, especially in low light, and it doesn't support 4G/LTE, plus the battery life wasn't that great.
Comments
Would you go into a line of business to only break even or make 1 to 5% net profit and never be able to be the market leader in control over the technology?
the same could not really be said of iOS
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen
Ok, so Meego is an iOS knockoff. What's your point?
Actually, MeeGo is a combination of Moblin and Maemo (public release in 2005).
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat
It's $50 more on Google Play. His was got at full price in t-mobile store for $600, using their $25/week for 2 years purchase plan. Personally I think the extra $50 would have been worth it, since the only one available on play store is 16GB/White, which is the model he wanted anyhow.
Personally, I would have recommended the Google Edition of the HTC One over the Google Edition of the Galaxy S4.
Both of them already have the Android 4.3 update. If you can, root his device and install the Google Edition software as soon as possible.
The Nexus 4 going from 4.2.2 to 4.3 already had a nice performance jump (battery too). I could imagine the difference between stock 4.3 and Samsung's skinned 4.2.2 would be quite large. Android 4.3 also adds native GLES3 support, which is a nice perk.
Or pear shaped. :-)
Not at all.
1. iOS history is that previous apps almost always work flawlessly. The same is not true of Android.
2. With iOS, there is a vary fast transition to the newer OS so that you don't have the same fragmentation issues that Android faces.
I've understood Nexus devices to be used to introduce new OS versions and hardware standards and not intended as high volume commercial successes. But perhaps MS was doing the same with the Surface.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
I've understood Nexus devices to be used to introduce new OS versions and hardware standards and not intended as high volume commercial successes. But perhaps MS was doing the same with the Surface.
Exactly this. Nexus and Surface devices are not made for mass production. Google and Microsoft are not trying to get into competition with their OEMs.
Google did a pretty good job with their Nexus line of devices, meanwhile Microsoft did just about everything wrong.
What Microsoft should have done was waited until this year to launch Surface devices running Windows 8.1. A Basic model using Intel's brand new Bay Trail architecture and a Pro model using fanless Haswell (Y-Series). This way they can be lightweight, offer a long battery life as well as the performance needed for a full version of Windows 8.1.
The push on Windows RT was destined for failure. ARM inside a tablet is a losing battle, X86 is here.
As a result, the Surface RT had a nice build, but horrible performance and a useless version of Windows.
Meanwhile, the Surface Pro used powerful hardware but forgot it was meant to be a tablet, ie. the kind of device made for mobile versatility.
People with older devices can't find previous apps.
Do you mean newer apps? In any case 95% or more are on iOS 6.
I'm not so sure. Annecdotally, it seems likely that the bulk of Android customers barely know what an app is, let alone care. Most people are just buying whatever new phone the salesman at the service provider store pushes on them, which more & more are Samsung smartphones with Android. If Samsung goes all out with Tizen, especially in the low & mid range markets, it will become the #2 system and push Android to #3 overnight, even if there isn't one single third party app available. This has got to be Google's worst nightmare right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
I'm trying to see an upside for it, I'm guessing it will be the only phone that will tell me that my Scamsung fridge door is ajar .... But I will pass thanks.
Here's an upside: No longer will a zillion Android phone manufacturers be able to combine their sales with Samsung and claim dominance of the phone market over Apple's iOS. Samsung's Tizen and Android can duke it out over second and third place. Another side benefit is that Google will be drawn into combatting Samsung's Tizen with their own MotoMo Android OS, distracting Google's management further from their core search business. This will weaken Google's bottom linemakiing Apple stronger by comparison.
Samsung, like Sony, has no idea what their customers want. Their idea of marketing is to make a lot of models and see what slides off the wall with a wet plop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
judging from what Motorola is doing, it wouldn't surprise me if one day Google just spit out a version of Android and Samsung did Tizen that was the extent of Android. HTC isn't making any money, NEC dumped their Android products, and I don't if anyone else is making any decent profits. Me too products generally don't last long.
Would you go into a line of business to only break even or make 1 to 5% net profit and never be able to be the market leader in control over the technology?
To answer your closing question: I think Google would be ecstatic to break even with Motorola. It's costing them several hundred million per quarter currently.
Keep also in mind that Google's Attention-Deficit management is already bored of Android and wanting to move onto playing with Chrome. There is really no long-term thinking at Samsung or Google/MotoMo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
Alien Dalvik and other ports of the Dalvik VM enables most Android apps to run on Meego, Maemo, BlackBerry OS 10, iOS (yes, you can run Android apps on Apple devices if you're jailbroken and install Alien Dalvik), etc... So running Android apps on Tizen shouldn't be a problem...
Throwing another layer of lag into the mix probably won't even be noticed by Samsung phone users.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_mac_lover
Samsung... U think u can build up your own Eco system ?
More like an "echo" system.
As in it's all been done before.
I presume it will be designed with the same technical acumen and usability as the POS OS that comes with their Smart TV.
To be honest, I don't mind the homescreen. Everything else looks pretty crap. Does this mean Samsung will sell phones with 4 5 different operating systems? Tizen, Android, Windows Phone, Bada and that other one they use on the really low end phones... if so it sounds like a great way to make an awesome ecosystem /s
Edit: Added Windows phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
I've understood Nexus devices to be used to introduce new OS versions and hardware standards and not intended as high volume commercial successes. But perhaps MS was doing the same with the Surface.
First off, Google and Microsoft, just like Samsung, and others make these products first and foremost for their own employees. Years before the Surface, Microsoft employees were buying iPads and using them at work. What do you think Microsoft is going to do? prevent Apple products from being used amongst Microsoft employees, especially when there are sales reps doing presentations. The last thing they want is the company using a competitors product that doesn't run Office, because Microsoft's too stupid to port it over.
Now, Google has their own internal developers that need to test code, etc. Google has these Nexus product for their employees and they probably make enough to sell to break even since they are just private label jobs and there really isn't anything THAT special about them other than they are cheap with maybe a decent spec here and there.
Now with Microsoft, they are spending TONS of money in advertising for the Surface, unlike Google for the Nexus. I think Microsoft is spending somewhere around $500 Mil on tv ads, etc. That's not chump change in the advertising world. Nexus wasn't promoted nearly as much.
What is dumb is that the media shouldn't hype the Nexus product that much since it's not a product Google expects to make much money on. And it's NOT a high end product, it's medium grade product.
Microsoft screwed up in a lot of ways and if Windows 8 doesn't take off within 2 years to the point where they have successfully taken 50% marketshare within their own platform, they will be in deep trouble. And what is WIndows 9 going to look like and when is that scheduled to be released? Is Microsoft going to constantly changing the UI because each time they do something, it doesn't work? Vista is basically telling everyone, XP sucked, then Windows 7 tells everyone that WIndows Vista sucked, etc. etc. because Microsoft changes the product drastically rather than improving on what really works. OS X looks from first sight the same as it always has, for the most part, but digging inside you know it's different. Sure, I think Apple's due for a theme change, but not drastically changing the GUI so that the work flow is completely different like Windows 8.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
What is dumb is that the media shouldn't hype the Nexus product that much since it's not a product Google expects to make much money on. And it's NOT a high end product, it's medium grade product.
I would argue that.
The Nexus 4 was the sister phone to the LG's Optimus G flagship. At the time of launch, the Snapdragon S4 Pro was the most powerful SoC inside of a phone. It came with just about every feature expected of a flagship device. The only drawback was the lack of LTE support on many networks (although never advertised, the Nexus 4 could run on select LTE bands).
The Nexus 10 was the first Android tablet to introduce a resolution beyond 1920x1200. It housed Samsung's Exynos 5250 which was the first SoC to market with ARM's Cortex A15 (ARMv8), and LPDDR3 memory. It was also the first SoC (and still is) to use ARM's Mali T600 series, the Mali-T604.
The first Nexus 7 is the only mid~high range product. Tegra 3 (2012 model) and Snapdragon S4 Pro (2013 model) had both been on the market for quite sometime before the launch of the Nexus 7. To the Nexus 7's defence, it was the first full feature 7inch tablet, and is now the first high resolution 7inch tablet.
If rumours of the Nexus 5 are true, the LG G2 (being announced tomorrow morning) will be the sister phone, and it uses a 1080p display combined with Qualcomm's Snapdragon 800 + LTE-Advanced. So once again it will be a top of the line device.
Nonsense. Google sells Nexus devices by the millions and makes absolutely no effort to limit their sale. They'd be happy to take all the sales they can get. "Not intended as a commercial success" is total BS. Google goes out of its way to sell as many Nexus devices as they can with full advertising and so on.
Yes, I suppose that owners of the original iPhone might not be able to run a tiny percentage of current apps.
But anyone denying that the problem is 100 times worse on Android for the reasons I already gave is lying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings33
I would argue that.
The Nexus 4 was the sister phone to the LG's Optimus G flagship. At the time of launch, the Snapdragon S4 Pro was the most powerful SoC inside of a phone. It came with just about every feature expected of a flagship device. The only drawback was the lack of LTE support on many networks (although never advertised, the Nexus 4 could run on select LTE bands).
The Nexus 10 was the first Android tablet to introduce a resolution beyond 1920x1200. It housed Samsung's Exynos 5250 which was the first SoC to market with ARM's Cortex A15 (ARMv8), and LPDDR3 memory. It was also the first SoC (and still is) to use ARM's Mali T600 series, the Mali-T604.
The first Nexus 7 is the only mid~high range product. Tegra 3 (2012 model) and Snapdragon S4 Pro (2013 model) had both been on the market for quite sometime before the launch of the Nexus 7. To the Nexus 7's defence, it was the first full feature 7inch tablet, and is now the first high resolution 7inch tablet.
If rumours of the Nexus 5 are true, the LG G2 (being announced tomorrow morning) will be the sister phone, and it uses a 1080p display combined with Qualcomm's Snapdragon 800 + LTE-Advanced. So once again it will be a top of the line device.
The camera is horrible, especially in low light, and it doesn't support 4G/LTE, plus the battery life wasn't that great.