Hands-on with the new 64-bit A7-powered iPhone 5s with new M7, camera features & Touch ID

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  • Reply 121 of 166
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

     

     

    No, no and no. Having a 64 bit wide memory bus will significantly improve moving blocks of memory around. While this in itself is not a huge overall performance advantage (depending on how much memory block moving your app does) it does tend to increase performance on average about 6%.  All implementations of memmove() memcpy() etc are optimized to use the widest int size of the platform for exactly this reason. Everything from the cache width to the registers to bus size has doubled and this does definitely boost performance.

     

    You will not run out of memory due to 64-bit architecture. Sure some of the apps will get marginally bigger and maybe consume a little more runtime memory but we're not talking double here, not even close.


    64bit wide memory bus, but remember all of your instructions are 64bit long as well, so you get no performance increase over 32bit bus with 32bit instructions (as you'll run same amount of instruction per clock).

     

     In 32bit software, you get absolutely no performance increase as 32bit instruction are bloated into 64bit instruction to be ran on a 64bit processor, and you have to add overhead translating/bloating these instruction. 

     

    in 64bit software, you will get benefit only on instructions that actually require/use 64bit length, which doesn't occur very often.  Also, 1gb of memory will bottleneck 64bit software most likely.

     

    not double, but memory is still 1gb,  so you'll actually consume more memory while not receiving any benefit due to my prior statement.

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  • Reply 122 of 166
    Originally Posted by BearzJack View Post

    having a 64 bit chip does absolutely nothing, even with 2x size of registeres, because 64bit instructions are 2x size instructions, so they will fill up registers twice as fast as well, you'll get most of the time get no performance increase in All 32bit application, most 64bit applications.  The ONLY time you'll possibly get any performance advantage is when its a 64bit application that uses a certain 64bit instructions (RARE) , and even that is a guess.

     

    Additionally, you WILL run out of memory as with only 1gb of it, which is really the bottleneck of the system.  

     

    overall, you'l likely feel a performance decrease with most applications.  32bit application run slower due to conversion, 64bit application run slower due to insufficient memory.




    Glad you know this, seeing as you've used the iPhone 5S already.

     

    Oh, wait.

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  • Reply 123 of 166
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BearzJack View Post

     

    64bit wide memory bus, but remember all of your instructions are 64bit long as well, so you get no performance increase over 32bit bus with 32bit instructions (as you'll run same amount of instruction per clock).

     

     In 32bit software, you get absolutely no performance increase as 32bit instruction are bloated into 64bit instruction to be ran on a 64bit processor, and you have to add overhead translating/bloating these instruction. 

     

    in 64bit software, you will get benefit only on instructions that actually require/use 64bit length, which doesn't occur very often.  Also, 1gb of memory will bottleneck 64bit software most likely.

     

    not double, but memory is still 1gb,  so you'll actually consume more memory while not receiving any benefit due to my prior statement.


     

    You get a performance boost on data accesses, for example transferring a 10k byte array on a 64-bit system in a 64-bit app will be about 2x the speed of a 32 bit system. Instructions are not a wash they are still 32 bits wide, so now you can load 2x the instructions per cycle into cache, however a fair amount of that may be unneeded instructions. However the 64-bit arm instruction set is a much optimized version compared to previous architectures.

    Not every app does a lot or memory moving, hence the data width advantage only results in an overall approx 6% increase in performance.

     

    Any application that is math or graphic intensive (which brings in games, video, audio, gps etc) likely use 64 bit math which will see a performance advantage.

     

    Who says iPhone 5s only has 1GB memory?

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  • Reply 124 of 166
    rogifan wrote: »
    Rocking? People still use that term?

    Galaxy phones? People still use that term? :lol:
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  • Reply 125 of 166
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mutoneon View Post



    "The days of "lol iPhone doesn't have X or Y feature" are over."



    You're smoking crack if you don't think there's a huge unmet demand for larger screened iPhones.



    They are losing their cachet big-time by having only one small form factor. Just because you and I don't need a bigger screen doesn't mean that everyone else feels that way. I meet people all the time who want a bigger screen so that they can see easier. Women, especially. They carry purses and handbags, and have plenty of room for a bigger phone.



    They've gotten way too conservative. They need to aggressively address their weak spots, not simply declare that they're actually strengths.

     

    For those that want a bigger screen it is surely not for talking into so what Apple should do to address that perception of unmet market is simply highlight their LTE iPad mini. Especially since given that there is no expensive (and unused for big screen buyers) voice plan the overall costs of the thing will be substantially less than a phablet.

     

    More agression in the marketing department would be welcome.

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  • Reply 126 of 166
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Secular Investor View Post

     

     

    "Not sure what the RAM is on it either but I doubt it is 4GB or more. More like 2GB! You need that for operating it in 64 bit mode;" NO YOU DON'T - READ THE ARTCLE.

     

    You are right though. The S5 is missing lots of vital features. It has no tele-transporter, no patoto peeler, no Swiss Army Knife, no x-ray, nothing to inflate my tyres, no bottle opener, no water bottle, no shoe horn, no steam iron, not even a key to unlock my front door, or even a sponge to wipe your silly butt. ..... ZZZZZZZZ.


     

    The tire inflator is a must-have for me.

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  • Reply 127 of 166
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

     

     

    For those that want a bigger screen it is surely not for talking into so what Apple should do to address that perception of unmet market is simply highlight their LTE iPad mini. Especially since given that there is no expensive (and unused for big screen buyers) voice plan the overall costs of the thing will be substantially less than a phablet.

     

    More agression in the marketing department would be welcome.


     

    A larger screen does not equal a large phone.

     

    Apple could fit a 4.9 inch bezel free screen in 4.27in x 2.4in frame.

    Current dimensions of 5s are 4.9 x 2.33

     

    iPhone 3G/3GS were 2.4in wide.

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  • Reply 128 of 166
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

     

     

    A larger screen does not equal a large phone.

     

    Apple could fit a 4.9 inch bezel free screen in 4.27in x 2.4in frame.

    Current dimensions of 5s are 4.9 x 2.33

     

    iPhone 3G/3GS were 2.4in wide.


     

    But it does equal a large screen mobile computing device which is what I suggested people are desiring when they want a larger "phone" given the decline in actual voice messages. So the thiought being some one wants "big" why not go BIG? and, of course, cheaper.

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  • Reply 129 of 166

    Originally Posted by Adam Foosaner View Post

     

    ***Full disclosure*** - I used to own a Galaxy S4 and ended up not liking it. That is why I am switching to the iPhone 5s, since it is a product that works better for me. However, I can see why many other people enjoy the Galaxy series of phones so I do not hold hate for having diversity in the industry. 

     

    Am I the only person who follows this site that believes that Apple Insider takes things too far sometimes with the bashing of other companies? Am I wrong to ask for a more professional style of writing?


     

    Welcome to Apple Insider!  We all enjoyed your excellent "Voice of Reason" troll.  

     

    You managed to avoid the usual cookie-cutter "concern troll" formula (e.g. "I love Apple but I fear that the iPhone 5C will spell doom for the company because...") and also the usual mindless Samsung copy-and-paste-talk-points ("1. Screen is too small, 2. 64-bits means nothing, 3. No Samsung toaster-fridge integration", etc.)  There have been quite a few trollish comments here on Apple Insider, some more obvious than others, of the above two types.

     

    But there are relatively few "Voice of Reason" trolls.  Because most trolls attack Apple and its products, which of course makes it impossible for them to appear reasonable and "unbiased."  And also because "being reasonable" does little if anything to turn the tide.  And trolls (the paid trolls, that is) seek to disrupt a site's reader base and to subvert their opinions.  And yes, the entities who pay trolls just might expect to see their brand name and product name(s) in troll comments.  I noticed both "Samsung" and "Galaxy S4" in your comment.  Good job!

     

    Blogs are about opinions.   This is a pro-Apple blog, not an "unbiased" font of journalistic truth (although much of what Apple Insider publishes does eventually turn out to be true.)  And if Apple Insider's opinions aren't watered down enough for you, then I'm sure there are thousands of other blogs that are.  It's a big wide world out there.

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  • Reply 130 of 166
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

     

    The tire inflator is a must-have for me.


     

    Don't worry. Build it and they will come.

     

    In the meantime, this could help get you started. 

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  • Reply 131 of 166
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by OakhamMD View Post

     

     

    Don't worry. Build it and they will come.

     

    In the meantime, this could help get you started. 


     

    Hah! Thanks! My car is just old enough it doesn't have that built-in and I am a tad tire inflation obsessed.

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  • Reply 132 of 166
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post





    I think this need can be better served with an iPad Mini that can make and receive phone calls. MHO.

     

    I wopnder what sort of extra effort that would take given it's already available with LTE?

     

    By that size I've no interest in voice but, yeah, I expect some would. Then maybe wireless earpieces would finally take off....

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  • Reply 133 of 166
    tyler82tyler82 Posts: 1,116member
    The NSA's new favorite device, ever!
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  • Reply 134 of 166
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

     

     

    But it does equal a large screen mobile computing device which is what I suggested people are desiring when they want a larger "phone" given the decline in actual voice messages. So the thiought being some one wants "big" why not go BIG? and, of course, cheaper.


     

    I think people want big but in a pocket sized package. I don't think an iPad-mini is practical to carry around without a bag.

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  • Reply 135 of 166
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post



    DED -- Good article.



    It was factual, concise, informative and gathered and fleshed-out information from several sources.



    The short videos were good -- but the "hands on" title was a bit deceptive.

     

    What did you find deceptive?

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  • Reply 136 of 166
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Harry Wild View Post



    5S does not come with 128Gb storage option; nor does it come with WiFi standard 802.11ac. No IGZO screen either. Not sure what the RAM is on it either but I doubt it is 4GB or more. More like 2GB! You need that for operating it in 64 bit mode; but there are no 64 bit Apple iPhone apps either so that explains the lack of RAM %u2013 Checking on the price of RAM; going from 2 to 4GB cost around $30 -(retail)

     

    All the apps on the iPhone 5s will be 64-bit. And it will not be difficult for third parties to enhance their apps. Even if a specific app has little to gain from moving to 64-bit, it will still work against Apple's 64-bit system libraries and benefit from more efficient compiling via Xcode's support for the modernized 64-bit ARMv8/AArch64 instruction set.



    The move to 64-bit in desktop Intel/PPC systems was largely motivated by the 4GB barrier of addressable RAM. That's not the case in mobile devices. There is an entirely different motive for moving to 64-bit ARM. Stop repeating what you think you know and read about it.

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  • Reply 137 of 166
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hypercommunist View Post



    In what way is this a "hands on" article? It just repeats info from the keynote, with some background information.

     

    If you look at the pictures and videos you'll see the iPhone 5s on a hand. The ones without fingernails are DED, but most of the time the hands on the device were the presenter while we were filming. The quality of the videos is greatly diminished by YouTube processing.

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  • Reply 138 of 166
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ExceptionHandler View Post

     

    Apple Insider isnt the main problem.  Most of the authors do not do what you described above.  They are usually tactful.  That said, I have largely started to avoid articles written by Daniel Eran Dilger for various reasons, including the reason you have stated.  I love apple products and reading about them; I am not fond of android products, but there are occasionally neat uses for it, however I would never own an android phone, tablet, or set top box. I do not think it's is necessary for constant bashing I see in his articles, regardless if I agree with the position or not (I do agree that samsung and google have largely and blatantly copied apple's designs in many areas).

     

    I can usually spot the articles he has written just by the title, but once in a while I get click baited or I'll see one that may be interesting, but I go into the article expecting to filter out some drivel.


     

    I'm so glad your signature advocates Creationism and Young Earth. Please feel free to insult us with all the arrogant huffing about our "drivel" that you can generate, but leave that signature in place. 

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  • Reply 139 of 166
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by E-Money View Post



    Which version is for T-Mobile?

     

    It's the same as the AT&T/Verizon model, A1533. 

     

    T-mobile US uses LTE band 4, aka AWS

     

    http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

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  • Reply 140 of 166
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BearzJack View Post

     

    having a 64 bit chip does absolutely nothing, even with 2x size of registeres, because 64bit instructions are 2x size instructions, so they will fill up registers twice as fast as well, you'll get most of the time get no performance increase in All 32bit application, most 64bit applications.  The ONLY time you'll possibly get any performance advantage is when its a 64bit application that uses a certain 64bit instructions (RARE) , and even that is a guess.

     

    Additionally, you WILL run out of memory as with only 1gb of it, which is really the bottleneck of the system.  

     

    overall, you'l likely feel a performance decrease with most applications.  32bit application run slower due to conversion, 64bit application run slower due to insufficient memory.


     

    Read up about ARMv8 and how large its instructions are. Or just read the article. 

     

    Do you really think that Apple would release a high end phone with an inappropriately-scaled chip architecture that delivered no benefit, just because Samsung did this summer? Come now, that's pretty preposterous.  

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