Rumor: Apple UI chief Greg Christie set to leave after clashes with Jony Ive [update: confirmed]

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  • Reply 61 of 122
    sporlosporlo Posts: 143member
    So...you're saying the person responsible is out?
    The media portrayed iOS 7's redesign as nearly all Ive's idea. Of course I'm speculating, but it sounds like Christie is the one who wouldn't concede to Ive's push forward. I'd love to be wrong, since if Ive is the one being conservative here, then iOS 8 might be a better product.
  • Reply 62 of 122
    mechanicmechanic Posts: 805member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppeX View Post

     

    Apple is destroying the fantastic Mac interface with the awkward iOS interface. No labels, no scrollbars, no arrows on scroll bars, etc. Not to mention the hard to read fonts on iOS and the almost invisible slide to unlock. Functionality should be ABOVE the look or plain design, and not the other way round.


    Um you can turn on scroll bars lol. Even in mavericks.  There on auto appear (when you scroll the page they appear then disappear after stopping).

    You can go into System Preferences>General and Under "Show scroll bars" check "Always"  and scroll bars will be in every window and will not auto hide.  Incidentally Steve Jobs himself introduce the auto hiding scroll bars back in snow leopard.

  • Reply 63 of 122
    ios6 vs ios7: I think the new ios has many more pros than cons.

    I wouldn't be surprised if this soap opera story is over exaggerated, and that he's leaving for many reasons - but it's easy to write the story that Ive is at odds with him, it happened once before, so it adds credibility.
  • Reply 64 of 122
    mechanicmechanic Posts: 805member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Retrogusto View Post

     

    Yeah. But my biggest complaint is the way the white borders with controls seem to be there when I don't want them, and not there when I do. For example, if I'm looking at a photo in landscape mode, bars at the top and bottom of the screen obscure part of the picture, and I don't know how to make them disappear. You'd think they'd vanish after a few seconds, but they don't. At least not usually. On the other hand, if I'm looking at a web page, the bar at the bottom that includes the "back" and "close" buttons seems to appear and disappear with some logic that I still don't understand, so if I want to close the page or go back a page, I have to fidget with it at random until the navigation bar appears. I'm sure there's some logic to the way it works, but it's not intuitive. Also, the way the controls obscure the frame when you're taking a picture makes it hard to frame pictures well. I normally think of Apple as being at the forefront of usability, but this stuff is definitely a step backwards from iOS 6. This may be due to the fact that I'm using iOS 7 on a 4S, but it still shouldn't be that bad.

     

    That said, I was recently on vacation and borrowed a friend's old spare Samsung phone running Android from a few years ago, and was shocked at how unusable the thing was. Friends sometimes tease me for being pre-Apple, but I still can't believe how much worse it was than my already low expectations.


    Tap on the picture to make the bars disappear. Its that easy.  The bars are there because they contain navigation and edit buttons.  But if you just want to view the pictures full page tap once on the picture and then swipe  left to right to scroll through the pictures with no bars.  If you want the bars back then tap the picture once and they come back.  In safari in ios7 when you scroll the page down as your reading, the bar with navigation controls slides out of the way so you can see more of the page.  When you scroll back to the top to put in a url or go to another page the navigation menus slide into view.  Its very intuitive. 

  • Reply 65 of 122
    pokepoke Posts: 506member

    I don't mind the look of iOS 7 but it's riddled with usability issues, whereas iOS 1-6 was fantastic usability-wise. Did iOS need an updated look? Sure, but it took a hit in usability in the process. I have no idea what's going on inside Apple but the fact is that two people who worked on iOS since its inception and who knew usability inside and out and were obviously responsible for the success of the project have left. The guy who has replaced them has no background in software at all. There are rumours of clashes. Taken together it all paints a bad picture.

     

    I'm not going to pass judgement until I see iOS 8, but this whole sequence of events is disturbing.

  • Reply 66 of 122
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by EWTHeckman View Post

     

    Microsoft and Apple are making the same basic mistake—following design fads at the expense of usability. Apple isn't sliding into the abyss quite as fast as MS (who managed to ship an OS with perfect security: no way to access anything), but that's cold comfort.

     

    Apple because awesome because their team included psychologists who not only helped design the interface, they tested their theories before shipping them. I haven't heard of psychologists on Apple's design team for at least the last 15 years, and it's showing in the interface. (Gray on gray, hidden features—like scroll bars—that actually convey information, etc.)


    I'm not ready to write off Apple just yet; but I too am afraid they will embrace theoretical design principles at the expense of real-world human needs and preferences. A pure white slab of a couch that rises instantaneously from the floor to meet my backside as I sit down may be theoretically pure--free from structural adornment, only there when it's time for it to function, and of a hue that is not biased toward any hue but is a combination of all--but such a couch would be uncomfortable to sit in, a pain to keep clean, and never used since I'd be too worried I'd wind up falling to the floor.

     

    Human use isn't the final test of good design, it is the essential starting principle.

  • Reply 67 of 122
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    ewtheckman wrote: »
    Microsoft and Apple are making the same basic mistake—following design fads at the expense of usability. Apple isn't sliding into the abyss quite as fast as MS (who managed to ship an OS with perfect security: no way to access anything), but that's cold comfort.

    Apple because awesome because their team included psychologists who not only helped design the interface, they tested their theories before shipping them. I haven't heard of psychologists on Apple's design team for at least the last 15 years, and it's showing in the interface. (Gray on gray, hidden features—like scroll bars—that actually convey information, etc.)

    Strange how I have no problem with accessing everything on Windows 8.1.

    True it is more touch-centric than mouse-centric, and I enjoy using it on Win tablet more than on desktop PC... but with next update on 8.1, MS will basically restore full "classic" desktop environment for users who prefer it, with politically correct Start Menu, windowed Metro apps etc.

    But even in current form, it is down to individuals to like it or not. It did polarize users by pushing some comfort margins a bit too far, but it's not like everyone stood up and called for lynch. I took demo HP Envy Spectre 13 to my wife to try it, a few days back - she is iPhone 5s and Windows 7 laptop user - and she absolutely adored laptop's Retina resolution touch-screen functionality for browsing/reading in casual position (recliner armchair, sofa, bed).
  • Reply 68 of 122
    solipsismx wrote: »
    I'm happy to hear that Jony is now working on Mac OS X as I love what they accomplished with iOS 7 (which I've been recently informed means I'm lying or just a rabid fanboy).
    Thanks for admitting that. After reading the above comments, I thought I was the only one who liked iOS 7. And I have no idea what everyone is talking about when they question the ease of use or the reliability.
  • Reply 69 of 122
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Thanks for admitting that. After reading the above comments, I thought I was the only one who liked iOS 7. And I have no idea what everyone is talking about when they question the ease of use or the reliability.
    I guess you need green felt and faux leather to be useable?
  • Reply 70 of 122
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Thanks for admitting that. After reading the above comments, I thought I was the only one who liked iOS 7. And I have no idea what everyone is talking about when they question the ease of use or the reliability.

    Check out the conversation from post number 31 to 35.
  • Reply 71 of 122
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

     

    Is it possible that Jony is no good at software and/or UI?


     

    He has great taste in industrial design. I am not certain exactly who made all of the decisions on iOS 7... we'll see what he approves as iOS continues to evolve.

  • Reply 72 of 122
    dnd0psdnd0ps Posts: 253member
    sky king wrote: »
    If yo look at all the other stuff Mr Ive has designed you would have to be a truly weird person to put any of it in your living room.  So far all I can detect in IOS-7 (and increasingly in Mavericks) is design changes to accommodate the tastes of a man who would like to live in a modern office lobby instead of a home.  But at least the system is far less reliable than the predecessors.

    Yes.  The vision of one man normally makes a company great.  Ands the reverse is also true.  Placing the power in the hands of the wrong people can destroy a company.  Apple would have done far better if it had consciously attempted to carry on the dream of Mr. Jobs rather than pretend that Mr Cook and Mr Ives were replacements for the drive, genius and singleminded control of Jobs.

    It's kind of like Obamacare and Social Security.  Once you get something bad in place it's really, really hard to get rid of it.
    Here we go again, if Jobs were alive bla bla bla
    sky king wrote: »
    My My.  this fellow known as Tallest Skil seems to have little to say except that he persistently and consistently disagrees with anyone who writes unfavorably about IOS-7 or Mavericks.  Further, his vocabulary seems a little limited.  "Shut up," is hardly a helpful comment.  I wonder, Tallest, can you accept the concept that not everyone likes whatever it is that you like about IOS-7 and Mavericks?  Can you accept the idea that a good number of long time Apple users are disheartened at the direction the company is taking?  Or are you simply related to Mr. Ive?
    You must be new here
  • Reply 73 of 122
    retrogusto wrote: »
    Yeah. But my biggest complaint is the way the white borders with controls seem to be there when I don't want them, and not there when I do. For example, if I'm looking at a photo in landscape mode, bars at the top and bottom of the screen obscure part of the picture, and I don't know how to make them disappear. You'd think they'd vanish after a few seconds, but they don't. At least not usually. On the other hand, if I'm looking at a web page, the bar at the bottom that includes the "back" and "close" buttons seems to appear and disappear with some logic that I still don't understand, so if I want to close the page or go back a page, I have to fidget with it at random until the navigation bar appears. I'm sure there's some logic to the way it works, but it's not intuitive. Also, the way the controls obscure the frame when you're taking a picture makes it hard to frame pictures well. I normally think of Apple as being at the forefront of usability, but this stuff is definitely a step backwards from iOS 6. This may be due to the fact that I'm using iOS 7 on a 4S, but it still shouldn't be that bad.

    That said, I was recently on vacation and borrowed a friend's old spare Samsung phone running Android from a few years ago, and was shocked at how unusable the thing was. Friends sometimes tease me for being pre-Apple, but I still can't believe how much worse it was than my already low expectations.


    In my experience, Camera Roll and Safari have been pretty straightforward in iOS 7.

    When looking at a photo in landscape view, all you need to do to turn off the horizontal bars is just tap on the photo. That's it.

    With Safari, when you're scrolling down through a web page, the 'back' button bar disappears. The moment you start scrolling back up, it reappears. Super simple.

    Hope this helps.
  • Reply 74 of 122
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    I'm not ready to write off Apple just yet;

    Whew. Good thing you posted this or I would have sold my shares.



    Side note: a lot of trollish comments on this article.
  • Reply 75 of 122
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    Whew. Good thing you posted this or I would have sold my shares.







    Side note: a lot of trollish comments on this article.

    Wow, I didn't realize I had that much influence! I have no plans to sell mine either. After 17 years I've grown rather fond of them. If I have a change of heart I'll be sure to announce it here, in case you're watching.

  • Reply 76 of 122
    howiehowie Posts: 68member

    The story is about Greg Christie, but you show an image of Jony Ive?

  • Reply 77 of 122
    sporlosporlo Posts: 143member
    rogifan wrote: »
    I guess you need green felt and faux leather to be useable?
    Why impose this false dichotomy? I'm a critic of both of those guys.

    Also, there's another false dichotomy in the idea that anyone who dislikes iOS 7 must be longing to return to the good old days of iOS 6. No no no. Is it not possible to make good improvements, yet in the process screw up a lot that never needed to be messed with? That's how I see iOS 7. I'm not looking to go back (in fact there's plenty to complain about in versions 5 & 6 too), I'm just frustrated at the silly new design paradigm (keyword: paradigm. I'm not complaining about specific aesthetics) that seems to be here to stay.
  • Reply 78 of 122
    pazuzupazuzu Posts: 1,728member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pmz View Post

     

    Cue the comments on how Ive will continue to ruin the Apple UI like he did with iOS 7....

     

    What? That's what the trolls on other sites are saying....


    Well it only took 6 months to get it passable after it launched.

  • Reply 79 of 122
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post



    Try finding a usable photo of Greg Christie to post. I'll be waiting...

     

    Well don't expect it from me.  I'm not the one running a website called "Apple Insider".  

  • Reply 80 of 122
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post





    Strange how I have no problem with accessing everything on Windows 8.1.

     

    What I ran into was actually MS Server 2012. It was freshly set up and booted to the desktop. I was accessing it remotely to do my work and it was the very first time I had seen that interface. There was no start menu or anything like it, no drives on the desktop, no visual access to the hard drives at all. It took me about 5 minutes to figure out how to get to the hard drive! That is too freakin' hard to figure out the most very basic of OS tasks.

     

    One of the major rules that Apple figured out which made their interface so successful can be described in a single word: discoverability. Just looking at the screen should give you some indication that there is more to be discovered at this spot, like menus, drag handles, etc. That MS Server 2012 interface lacks discoverability—in spades.

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