[CONTENTEMBED=/t/181788/apple-reveals-most-employees-are-white-men-says-diversity-needs-to-be-improved/750#post_2580463 layout=inline]Where do you hang out where "Merry Christmas" are fighting words?[/CONTENTEMBED]
When we are in Panama 90% of people there celebrate Christmas but not in the States.
That's hardly surprising; why would 90% of the people want to celebrate Christmas both in Panama and the States? Bit of a trek. Guess if you had family in both places.
But then, why single out the States? You might as well say that 90% of the Panama people celebrate Christmas there but not in Antarctica.
No where. They aren't fighting words at all. In the US If you said that to someone who did not observe Christmas, they would probably say thank you, and to you as well. People of other faiths have learned to accept things like that. They don't want to stir up trouble. Very much like jews who have a job that requires them to work past sunset on Fridays and Muslims who have to work on Friday. It is not the end of the world. They put up with it because it is better than making an issue out of it when it is not the local custom. Some of us think it is just more polite to avoid saying that to stranger as a courtesy to people of other faiths. What is so hard to understand about that?
When we are in Panama 90% of people there celebrate Christmas but not in the States.
In the States, it's about 80%.
So basically people don't care if you say Merry Christmas but heaven's forbid for that one person to be offended.
Conquered is fine with me, too. If only I lived in an age where I could conquer lands. Must have been great fun. Oh well. Nowhere left to conquer or discover now. All done and dusted. Might as well lie down and die.
It wasn't it was cracked up to be. Days on end riding on rickety ships, bad food, no plumbing, plus you have a hard enough time communicating with those that speak English, imagine the trouble you'd have if they didn't.
So basically people don't care if you say Merry Christmas but heaven's forbid for that one person to be offended.
Saying merry christmas to non-observers in the US and expecting them to return the greeting just because this is America is simply rude. That type of attitude is why Americans are generally considered rude when they travel to other countries. Certainly the case in Panama where most Americans refuse to learn any spanish and expect the locals to speak english. This isn't the 1800s. Things change as the diverse populations start intermingling around the world. In my opinion, common courtesies and customs should also change to reflect that new diversity.
Not really, my argument doesn't depend on BF being an idiot, he just is one. It's not an ad hominem so much as a plain insult, and one that he is proving well deserving of with this continual tripe.
It's a personal attack. If you think their comments are idiotic then specify that. And since all you really know of the person is their comments that's really all you can say is idiotic.
if you don't want to, that's your choice, but Frost took extreme issue with a simple direct comment mstone made yesterday, which surprisingly he's not doing with you so I guess it's very selective… like some people and their religious customs.
I was just doing some research about that and it turns out in the US 90% of people celebrate Christmas but only 50% of those who celebrate view it as a religious holiday. I would have thought it would have been less observers and more secular participants so I guess you point is noted. I still think saying happy holidays is preferable for businesses but apparently it makes no difference for individuals. I am still surprised that you find that people saying happy holidays is offensive. I couldn't find any statistics on that.
[CONTENTEMBED=/t/181788/apple-reveals-most-employees-are-white-men-says-diversity-needs-to-be-improved/750#post_2580478 layout=inline]In the States, it's about 80%.[/CONTENTEMBED]
So basically people don't care if you say Merry Christmas but heaven's forbid for that one person to be offended.
Saying merry christmas to non-observers in the US and expecting them to return the greeting just because this is America is simply rude. That type of attitude is why Americans are generally considered rude when they travel to other countries. Certainly the case in Panama where most Americans refuse to learn any spanish and expect the locals to speak english. This isn't the 1800s. Things change as the diverse populations start intermingling around the world. In my opinion, common courtesies and customs should also change to reflect that new diversity.
Are you expected to wear a Panama hat in Panama? That's the only noteworthy thing I know of emanating from that place. Must be nice living in such a boring place.
Not really, my argument doesn't depend on BF being an idiot, he just is one. It's not an ad hominem so much as a plain insult, and one that he is proving well deserving of with this continual tripe.
It's a personal attack. If you think their comments are idiotic then specify that. And since all you really know of the person is their comments that's really all you can say is idiotic.
if you don't want to, that's your choice, but Frost took extreme issue with a simple direct comment mstone made yesterday, which surprisingly he's not doing with you so I guess it's very selective… like some people and their religious customs.
Saying merry christmas to non-observers in the US and expecting them to return the greeting just because this is America is simply rude. That type of attitude is why Americans are generally considered rude when they travel to other countries. Certainly the case in Panama where most Americans refuse to learn any spanish and expect the locals to speak english. This isn't the 1800s. Things change as the diverse populations start intermingling around the world. In my opinion, common courtesies and customs should also change to reflect that new diversity.
My anecdotal experience concurs with yours but I think the root cause is simply because the US is so large with a large, widespread population across most of the land -and- because it has such a heavy entertainment network that your average American simply has more than enough to contend with within their own borders.
These two reasons help to keep Americans isolated in their worldview even when educated. For the first point, you can go to Europe and you see people that speak multiple languages and have traveled to dozens of other countries simply because it's so easy to do. For the second point, even with native original programming everyone I know outside the US has seen innumerable "Hollywood" made television shows and movies. They even know our politicians and political issues better than Americans when giving random tests on the street, but that I classify as a branch of entertainment media these days.
Only about 3% of US citizens held passports as of 1989. That number has jumped considerably since changes were enacted after 9/11. Now you can't even do a cruise without a passport. Still, that percentage is still on par with more impoverished countries where people are missing a lot of things.
I was just doing some research about that and it turns out in the US 90% of people celebrate Christmas but only 50% of those who celebrate view it as a religious holiday. I would have thought it would have been less observers and more secular participants so I guess you point is noted. I still think saying happy holidays is preferable for businesses but apparently it makes no difference for individuals. I am still surprised that you find that people saying happy holidays is offensive. I couldn't find any statistics on that.
Hmmm. That's sad. My 80% was just self identified Christians and if your saying 50% of 90% thinks it's not a religious holiday, wow.
Are you expected to wear a Panama hat in Panama? That's the only noteworthy thing I know of emanating from that place. Must be nice living in such a boring place.
My anecdotal experience concurs with yours but I think the root cause is simply because the US is so large with a large, widespread population across most of the land -and- because it has such a heavy entertainment network that your average American simply has more than enough to contend with within their own borders.
These two reasons help to keep Americans isolated in their worldview even when educated. For the first point, you can go to Europe and you see people that speak multiple languages and have traveled to dozens of other countries simply because it's so easy to do. For the second point, even with native original programming everyone I know outside the US has seen innumerable "Hollywood" made television shows and movies. They even know our politicians and political issues better than Americans when giving random tests on the street, but that I classify as a branch of entertainment media these days.
Only about 3% of US citizens held passports as of 1989. That number has jumped considerably since changes were enacted after 9/11. Now you can't even do a cruise without a passport. Still, that percentage is still on par with more impoverished countries where people are missing a lot of things.
It's definitely because the US is so vast and sort of isolated. European countries are like US states. You can car/train travel for five hours in any direction and you be in a different country. In the US, you just be in a different state (or just your own state).
Are you expected to wear a Panama hat in Panama? That's the only noteworthy thing I know of emanating from that place. Must be nice living in such a boring place.
Only tourists buy Panama hats and they are usually made in Haiti or China. Probably our most famous asset is the Panama Canal, perhaps you've heard of it. Another claim to fame is our coffee which is world renowned. Panama is far from boring as it is a popular tourist destination with some of the finest surfing, fishing and scuba as well as a rich national heritage. There are also many wildlife species including over 300 types of hummingbirds. We also have a couple volcanoes. one extinct and one dormant, and both offer some very interesting geology to study. For those interested in anthropology there is a lot to study and explore regarding the history and culture of ancient peoples in America. there are many petroglyphs as well. I can recommend a very informative book titled "Guardians of the Life Stream". It is still in print, the ISBN is 0-9633959-3-9 and available in paperback on Amazon. In addition to the typical Central American culture we have a number of indigenous tribes. Probably the two most famous are the Kuna and the Ngöbe Buglé.
Other interesting places to visit are in Casco Viejo which is the old city established by the Spanish conquistadors which has been preserved.
You might be surprised to learn that Panama City has more, and taller and certainly some of the most unusual skyscrapers in the world and with an economic growth rate at 8% it is the fastest growing economy behind only China. Panama also has the largest mall in the world. Albrook Mall.
[CONTENTEMBED=/t/181788/apple-reveals-most-employees-are-white-men-says-diversity-needs-to-be-improved/700_100#post_2580486 layout=inline]Are you expected to wear a Panama hat in Panama? That's the only noteworthy thing I know of emanating from that place. Must be nice living in such a boring place.[/CONTENTEMBED]
Only tourists buy Panama hats and they are usually made in Haiti or China. Probably our most famous asset is the Panama Canal, perhaps you've heard of it. Another claim to fame is our coffee which is world renowned. Panama is far from boring as it is a popular tourist destination with some of the finest surfing, fishing and scuba as well as a rich national heritage. There are also many wildlife species including over 300 types of hummingbirds. We also have a couple volcanoes. one extinct and one dormant, and both offer some very interesting geology to study. For those interested in anthropology there is a lot to study and explore regarding the history and culture of ancient peoples in America. there are many petroglyphs as well. I can recommend a very informative book titled "Guardians of the Life Stream". It is still in print, the ISBM is 0-9633959-3-9 and available in paperback on Amazon. In addition to the typical Central American culture we have a number of indigenous tribes. Probably the two most famous are the Kuna and the Ngöbe Buglé.
Other interesting places to visit are in Casco Viejo which is the old city established by the Spanish conquistadors which has been preserved.
You might be surprised to learn that Panama City has more, and taller and certainly some of the most unusual skyscrapers in the world and with an economic growth rate at 8% it is the fastest growing economy behind only China. Panama also has the largest mall in the world. Albrook Mall.
Hope that helps.
Meh. All sounds boring and ugly.
The one thing I will always remember is that people from Panama have a penchant for making death threats against strangers over the pettiest of slights, masquerading as bravado.
...making death threats against strangers over the pettiest of slights, masquerading as bravado.
I'm very truly sorry about that. I was wondering what part of my comment made you so upset. Actually the part about the cricket bat was not a threat at all. It was stated as "perhaps" and "if" and "probably" and "years ago" and then a question. I have no reason to threaten you whatsoever. The part of my comment that was a borderline infraction was the first part where I postulated something about your mental state. Again, sorry about that, but by all means keep up the insults against everyone as they are rather entertaining since your are not very good at insults.
He's a troll. He's obnoxious, confrontational, judgemental and I'm 99% convinced that he's not even a Christian and this has all been an attention seeking stunt.
He's called people pathetic before in TS-style unprovoked attacks, so I'm going to say it again, he's an idiot, and should be forcibly shut up since he won't do it voluntarily.
I guess that mean people that celebrate Cinco de Mayo or St. Patrick's Day are Mexican-Irish?¡
Why are you calling those events by name? You need to be all-inclusive and refer to them as holidays when you don't know if all the people on the forum celebrate them or not. People do celebrate St. Patrick's Day despite not being Irish, Ireland doesn't say happy holidays to avoid offending residents of Ireland who don't celebrate it.
The point still stands that it's arrogant to impose your religion on anyone else and consider them inferior scum if they don't have the same cultural traditions as you.
It's not about imposing a religion on anyone and the tradition is to be caring towards other people, it's not like it's an offensive tradition.
Christmas is not the only holiday (religious or secular) in the winter period of mid December through to mid January that is commonly known as the holiday season.
What are all of the events just so we know what the phrase is covering? Mid-Dec to mid-Jan is an excessive range, the holiday period typically means 24th Dec - 2nd-5th Jan.
What are all of the events just so we know what the phrase is covering? Mid-Dec to mid-Jan is an excessive range, the holiday period typically means 24th Dec - 2nd-5th Jan.
I'm happy with that range too, I was being broad because we've got people from different countries talking here, who may have different understandings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
But they do in the countries that primarily celebrate it and I don't see why it's confusing:
Great, if those people in those countries want to wish me Happy Ramadan (or y'know, whatever they actually say) I'll take it as a positive thing. But nevertheless, I'm as white as they come, don't look at all like a muslim and I don't observe Ramadan, so it's a bit weird. If Ramadan happens to be a national holiday (pretty sure it isn't, since it lasts a month, right?) so everyone enjoys the period then I think happy holidays would be more appropriate there too.
Comments
That's hardly surprising; why would 90% of the people want to celebrate Christmas both in Panama and the States? Bit of a trek. Guess if you had family in both places.
But then, why single out the States? You might as well say that 90% of the Panama people celebrate Christmas there but not in Antarctica.
In the States, it's about 80%.
So basically people don't care if you say Merry Christmas but heaven's forbid for that one person to be offended.
Yeah, but think of the serving wenches! ????
Who ya calling a Homo!
So basically people don't care if you say Merry Christmas but heaven's forbid for that one person to be offended.
Saying merry christmas to non-observers in the US and expecting them to return the greeting just because this is America is simply rude. That type of attitude is why Americans are generally considered rude when they travel to other countries. Certainly the case in Panama where most Americans refuse to learn any spanish and expect the locals to speak english. This isn't the 1800s. Things change as the diverse populations start intermingling around the world. In my opinion, common courtesies and customs should also change to reflect that new diversity.
It's a personal attack. If you think their comments are idiotic then specify that. And since all you really know of the person is their comments that's really all you can say is idiotic.
if you don't want to, that's your choice, but Frost took extreme issue with a simple direct comment mstone made yesterday, which surprisingly he's not doing with you so I guess it's very selective… like some people and their religious customs.
I was just doing some research about that and it turns out in the US 90% of people celebrate Christmas but only 50% of those who celebrate view it as a religious holiday. I would have thought it would have been less observers and more secular participants so I guess you point is noted. I still think saying happy holidays is preferable for businesses but apparently it makes no difference for individuals. I am still surprised that you find that people saying happy holidays is offensive. I couldn't find any statistics on that.
I'm not entirely sure that there are pubs in uncharted territories.
Are you expected to wear a Panama hat in Panama? That's the only noteworthy thing I know of emanating from that place. Must be nice living in such a boring place.
I've reported him for four.
My anecdotal experience concurs with yours but I think the root cause is simply because the US is so large with a large, widespread population across most of the land -and- because it has such a heavy entertainment network that your average American simply has more than enough to contend with within their own borders.
These two reasons help to keep Americans isolated in their worldview even when educated. For the first point, you can go to Europe and you see people that speak multiple languages and have traveled to dozens of other countries simply because it's so easy to do. For the second point, even with native original programming everyone I know outside the US has seen innumerable "Hollywood" made television shows and movies. They even know our politicians and political issues better than Americans when giving random tests on the street, but that I classify as a branch of entertainment media these days.
Only about 3% of US citizens held passports as of 1989. That number has jumped considerably since changes were enacted after 9/11. Now you can't even do a cruise without a passport. Still, that percentage is still on par with more impoverished countries where people are missing a lot of things.
Hmmm. That's sad. My 80% was just self identified Christians and if your saying 50% of 90% thinks it's not a religious holiday, wow.
<<face palm>>
It's definitely because the US is so vast and sort of isolated. European countries are like US states. You can car/train travel for five hours in any direction and you be in a different country. In the US, you just be in a different state (or just your own state).
Only tourists buy Panama hats and they are usually made in Haiti or China. Probably our most famous asset is the Panama Canal, perhaps you've heard of it. Another claim to fame is our coffee which is world renowned. Panama is far from boring as it is a popular tourist destination with some of the finest surfing, fishing and scuba as well as a rich national heritage. There are also many wildlife species including over 300 types of hummingbirds. We also have a couple volcanoes. one extinct and one dormant, and both offer some very interesting geology to study. For those interested in anthropology there is a lot to study and explore regarding the history and culture of ancient peoples in America. there are many petroglyphs as well. I can recommend a very informative book titled "Guardians of the Life Stream". It is still in print, the ISBN is 0-9633959-3-9 and available in paperback on Amazon. In addition to the typical Central American culture we have a number of indigenous tribes. Probably the two most famous are the Kuna and the Ngöbe Buglé.
Other interesting places to visit are in Casco Viejo which is the old city established by the Spanish conquistadors which has been preserved.
You might be surprised to learn that Panama City has more, and taller and certainly some of the most unusual skyscrapers in the world and with an economic growth rate at 8% it is the fastest growing economy behind only China. Panama also has the largest mall in the world. Albrook Mall.
Hope that helps.
Meh. All sounds boring and ugly.
The one thing I will always remember is that people from Panama have a penchant for making death threats against strangers over the pettiest of slights, masquerading as bravado.
I'm very truly sorry about that. I was wondering what part of my comment made you so upset. Actually the part about the cricket bat was not a threat at all. It was stated as "perhaps" and "if" and "probably" and "years ago" and then a question. I have no reason to threaten you whatsoever. The part of my comment that was a borderline infraction was the first part where I postulated something about your mental state. Again, sorry about that, but by all means keep up the insults against everyone as they are rather entertaining since your are not very good at insults.
What the **** is up with you?
He's a troll. He's obnoxious, confrontational, judgemental and I'm 99% convinced that he's not even a Christian and this has all been an attention seeking stunt.
He's called people pathetic before in TS-style unprovoked attacks, so I'm going to say it again, he's an idiot, and should be forcibly shut up since he won't do it voluntarily.
No, just most Western non-Christians. Why do you say 'some' to imply it's a minority?
Why are you calling those events by name? You need to be all-inclusive and refer to them as holidays when you don't know if all the people on the forum celebrate them or not. People do celebrate St. Patrick's Day despite not being Irish, Ireland doesn't say happy holidays to avoid offending residents of Ireland who don't celebrate it.
It's not about imposing a religion on anyone and the tradition is to be caring towards other people, it's not like it's an offensive tradition.
Hardly.
So no Happy Easter either then?
Why wouldn't I be fine with it? Even when not celebrating it, I wouldn't get offended and request that they stop saying it.
What are all of the events just so we know what the phrase is covering? Mid-Dec to mid-Jan is an excessive range, the holiday period typically means 24th Dec - 2nd-5th Jan.
But they do in the countries that primarily celebrate it and I don't see why it's confusing:
What are all of the events just so we know what the phrase is covering? Mid-Dec to mid-Jan is an excessive range, the holiday period typically means 24th Dec - 2nd-5th Jan.
I'm happy with that range too, I was being broad because we've got people from different countries talking here, who may have different understandings.
But they do in the countries that primarily celebrate it and I don't see why it's confusing:
Great, if those people in those countries want to wish me Happy Ramadan (or y'know, whatever they actually say) I'll take it as a positive thing. But nevertheless, I'm as white as they come, don't look at all like a muslim and I don't observe Ramadan, so it's a bit weird. If Ramadan happens to be a national holiday (pretty sure it isn't, since it lasts a month, right?) so everyone enjoys the period then I think happy holidays would be more appropriate there too.