Samsung warns of massive 60% decline in profits for Q3, cites stiff smartphone competition

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  • Reply 141 of 222



    Umm, nowhere in that article does it state that Samsung is making anything for them.  Only that the appliance business is being sold to a Swedish company - Electrolux.

  • Reply 142 of 222
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheElectricChairRepairman View Post

     



    I think it was $13-14 billion. It's more than the net profit of Google in 2013. Also, Samsung has to pay Microsoft somewhere in the area of $1 billion per year for licensing. In contrast, I think Apple spends about $1 billion on marketing per year. Contrast that to many Apple haters' opinion that Apple is 'just marketing' is pretty amusing.


    That's for "marketing" not just advertising, and it includes the entire company, not just their mobile division.

     

    That said, a huge chunk of Samsung's marketing budget IIRC goes to spiffs at the retail level -- basically, bonuses in cash and products given to retailers and sales reps that meet certain sales goals and allocate prime spots to display Samsung products. This individual and collective financial incentive is why retail sales reps push Samsung so hard.

     

    Apple doesn't play that game, and in fact, has some of thinnest retail margins between wholesale cost and MSRP in the industry. Apple, of course, is also a retail competitor and has its own incentive to direct customers to Apple stores, since anything purchased directly through Apple means that Apple gets to keep the retail markup for themselves.

     

    I know people who've worked wireless retail, and there are financial incentives galore to push competing products, with Samsung particularly aggressive. Apple doesn't offer anything extra, and prioritizes inventory for its own stores while leaving other retailers short supplied for long periods after new product launches. Even if they're fans of Apple products, retail workers are generally not fans of Apple the company.

  • Reply 143 of 222
    diegogdiegog Posts: 134member
    All he reports on China orders show the 6/6+ at about 50/50 split. Unless I've missed something in the last few days.
    sog35 wrote: »
    Not sure the phablet is a small percentage of the market.

    The 6+ is selling faster than they can make them and in China the reservations for the 6+ is actually greater than the 6.

    People can argue that the 6+ is not the ideal size for a phone.  But like I've been saying for months Apple had to bring out the 6+ just from a business standpoint.  They could no longer allow Samdung to dominate that market unchallanged.  That's why I was so confident Apple was bringing out the 5.5.
    This article references Samsung Mobile which is separate from the company that produces the DRAM.
    Apple is going to be giving them more cash next year, sadly. Reports are saying that Apple will be buying so much DRAM next year that Samsung (and the other companies) will be adding production lines just to meet demand. They're expecting Apple to jump from consuming 16.5% of the worlds mobile DRAM output to a whopping 25%.

    http://press.trendforce.com/press/20140925-1658.html
  • Reply 144 of 222
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,924member
    cfugle wrote: »
    I agree that ANY company that provides competition to Apple is good. It does not have to be Samsung. And I personally am thrilled on the success of this amazing and thoughtful company but in business a company can respond to market forced or sit in the corner and get erased. That is my point. Change is almost as important and being best. There was a time not so long ago that Apple stood on it's haunches mass producing crap computers in a million variations just as HP and Dell do still today. The multiple level products sku's were marketed as beginner, skilled and professional yet one products innards were barely different between the levels but pricing and packaging was. I bought and supports these systems at a time when Apple lacked focus and kick-ass motivation... many of the nasty forum comments I saw regarding my post come from juniors that never existed in the 80's and were not even a formed sperm at the time. So I'll just ignore them. I think it's our duty as buying public to keep a good company afloat and keep them on their toes. To keep voicing the changes we want and to praise them when it's due.

    It's not Apple's job to create a market for competion. Survival of the fittest.

    Plus the Apple of the 80s/90s is a lot different of the Apple of today. Apple has focus now.
  • Reply 145 of 222
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

     

     

    Precisely. And THIS is where the "love" for Samsung has stemmed, at least from online communities and nerds- their hatred of Apple, and jumping on whatever OEM has shown the most success against them. 

     

    Samsung's problem now, is that their entire stregy was creating short term whiz-bang- they've never had any long term vision, nor the patience of skill to executive it. Meanwhile, Apple has been making plenty of long term moves in the last few years, that did not bear fruit instantly (much to the chagrin of ADHD forum dwellers) but have no converged in a perfect storm which is very difficult to compete against. Killer specs, killer hardware, an option of screen sizes, Touch ID, Apple Pay, an insanely healthy ecosystem, high integration with OSX platform and the upcoming Apple Watch- All which increase desirability and strengthen the halo effect, and all which are impossible to compete with, if you're an OEM without full control of your platform. Now, with iOS8, through extensions they've taken away any reason that 99% of people would choose Android for the "freedom", and with larger screen sizes, 99% of the reason people might choose a phone from Samsung.

     

    There's nothing in Samsung's DNA that shows it has what it takes to recover from this. It will only get worse as the media piles on, and decides it's bored of Samsung. They literally have nothing to fight back with. They have no valuable, exclusive technologies, software, services, hardware (unless you count touchwiz, which most see as a liability). Oh, and no brand loyalty. Noone I know that has a Samsung phone particularly cares about the company or its products. It's just the shiny thing the carrier pushed on them, they saw in ads, or they liked screen size. And I will have zero pity, as Samsung has been digging this grave for a while, and is one of the most corrupt, tactless, and classless companies I've ever had the displeasure of witnessing. I hope some other OEMs can take this opportunity to excel. I have no problem with HTC, Sony, LG, etc and I wish them success in this space. 


     

    Yep, Apple plays the long game. Perfect example is how they executed the 64-bit iOS transition. They didn't just introduce a 64-bit SoC to fill out a spec sheet, they had a 64-bit OS ready to go at launch, and went 64-bit with all of the preinstalled apps as well. Now, they've positioned the product line to go all 64-bit by next year, which gives developers a very large target market for 64-bit apps.

     

    All the while, Apple's SoCs perform at a high level while remaining very efficient. With the A8, Apple chose to reduce power consumption, whereas Samsung's typical solution is bigger batteries and throttling (except when running benchmark tests). While competitors claimed that 64-bit was a gimmick (while scrambling to ramp up their own 64-bit chips), Apple executed a masterful chip strategy that has positioned them for big performance and efficiency gains of their own choosing. Apple started with the A4, which used a reference ARM design. They went dual-core and to a more advanced ARM reference design with the A5. Then Apple introduced their own core design with the A6. This set the table for the A7, which added 64-bit support and doubled the performance. Now with the A8, Apple incrementally increased performance while reducing power consumption in half.

     

    Samsung's chip strategy has been to play the spec game (MOAR CORES! HIGHER GIGAHERTZ!), introduce gimmicky features like an octacore that can only run four cores at a time, and outright cheat on benchmark tests. All of this is short-term market gaming without any coherent long-term strategy. They don't even source their own SoCs across the board. By using Snapdragon SoCs in certain markets, and their own Exynos SoCs in others, Samsung can't even maintain consistency within their own product lines.

  • Reply 146 of 222

    I think Samsung is just now starting to realize the repercussion of chasing profits at any cost.

     

    I consider myself a techie guy with ample amount of disposable income for unnecessary purchases. In the past many of these purchases would go to Samsung, sometimes because they had better features or, all things being equal, I knew the brand. When it came time to buy a smartphone Samsung never had a chance to get my business. I won't go into the almost innumerable benefits of IOS/Apple vs. Android/{insert random company} other than to say IOS superiority has been self evident since the beginning. Now after years of watching the manner in which Samsung has conducted itself, I now will avoid buying their products precisely because I know the brand. This would not be so bad for them if all they sold is phones, but they lost me as a customer across all their business lines. Often times when I am buying something I don't know exactly what I want, but I am certain what I don't want and that is anything with Samsung's name on it.

  • Reply 147 of 222
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    I'm coming late to this party as usual, and since the grave-dancing is over, I'd like to address what IMO is wrong with ALL of Apple's competitors, as well as what Apple can do better to keep them all down.

    First and foremost: the OS is the problem for all of them.

    So what's the alternative? Do you really think that it's feasible for every manufacturer to make its own OS, and ecosystem, and have the market support all of them?

    A realistic look at the numbers indicate that making your own OS will most likely result in failure, Symbian, WebOS are dead, and BB is dying.

    The difference is that Apple built its OS on top of an already thriving ecosystem, and every new device on the shoulders of a successful one. It's way too late in the game for anyone to follow that same road map to success.
  • Reply 148 of 222
    Wall Street is still heavily betting on Google and Android as the most important mobile platform and I hope those ignorant mofos lose their shirts.  Apart from major market share there is no proof that Android is a superior platform to iOS.  Being popular doesn't make it good.  I personally think Apple is being treated unfairly based on low smartphone market share.  There's nothing to praise about cheap products and Wall Street shouldn't lump Android into some huge unified category of a platform.  There's far too many companies of all sorts building Android smartphones and tablets and all have their own personal agenda of taking other Android companies to task.  How can Wall Street back some Android OS that takes months and months to be updated and yet they get pissed if Apple has to pull an update in a day or so. Does anyone know how long it will take before 70% of all Android devices are on the same OS version?  Never.  I can assure you it will never happen.  I think they'd be lucky to have 60% of all Android devices on the same OS version at one time and I'm being very generous.  I can't even imagine what's going to happen when Android One becomes popular in BRIC nations.

    Ah Odo, we have a different take on this.
    Some day Android will be 80-90% of the market .
    When those Chinese and Indian manufacturers are finished shoving out
    billions of generic adenoids
    Android will be "king" of the pile.

    Just like Symbian and Java me used to be.
  • Reply 149 of 222
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,474member

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by goofy1958 View Post

     



    Umm, nowhere in that article does it state that Samsung is making anything for them.  Only that the appliance business is being sold to a Swedish company - Electrolux.


     

    Yup, some people with jump the gun and forget to make sure they understand what they are saying.  Sorry Mr Spam, to late to duck the egg.

  • Reply 150 of 222

    Now that right there is funny, I don't care who you are!  That's funny.

  • Reply 151 of 222
    calicali Posts: 3,494member
    guys the iHaters are back at it!!

    Samsung's next ad?

    HairGate

    https://fortune.com/2014/10/07/hairgate-iphone-hit-by-new-social-media-storm/
  • Reply 152 of 222
    solipsismx wrote: »
    The way I see it Apple's biggest strengths are their ability to grow multiple product lines from what they learned from other product lines (e.g.: Mac OS X » iOS » efficient frameworks in iOS moved back into Mac OS X, and milled aluminium MBP cases » milled aluminium casing for iPhones), but I see their biggest weakness is their relatively slow reaction time to market changes because they don't like to cut corners. An extreme example are those Chinese knockoffs that copy the look of everything external based on a few leaks.

    I agree that not being first is a consequence of their development strategy, but I am not convinced it has ever been a "weakness" in terms of affecting their bottom line, only the attitudes of certain demographics.

    Apple takes arrows from those who value being first to market, but they seem to recover that when they finally "catch up" in that regard.
  • Reply 153 of 222
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,924member
    cali wrote: »
    guys the iHaters are back at it!!

    Samsung's next ad?

    HairGate

    https://fortune.com/2014/10/07/hairgate-iphone-hit-by-new-social-media-storm/

    Bizarre. I've been rubbing my 6 all over my facial hair and nothing happens.
  • Reply 154 of 222
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    jungmark wrote: »
    Bizarre. I've been rubbing my 6 all over my facial hair and nothing happens.

    Please tell me you have one of those cool kung-fu master mustaches. :lol:
  • Reply 155 of 222
    ricmacricmac Posts: 65member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by daveinpublic View Post





    We know competition is good for Apple, no one said different. Why don't you turn it around and say competition is good for Samsung, and Apple's success will only strengthen their resolve? This is a glory day, rejoice and be glad!

    I have never bought into the idea that Apple "needs" competition.  I really doubt that Apple pays attention to things that way.  I think the whole culture that Steve Jobs built with his return to Apple (and THAT is his single greatest "product") that culture is one of a giant company that acts like and thinks like a start up.  Apple sees APPLE as it's greatest competitor.  Just my humble opinion.

  • Reply 156 of 222

    I can assure you that Samsung probably blew millions on R&D, Production, Marketing, etc for the Galaxy Gear watches. That might have been their biggest mistake. 

     

    I think they thought they were invincible and they wanted to lead innovation, but they should have just payed it safe.

  • Reply 157 of 222
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,246member
    A 60% drop is huge. Can't say that I'm sorry for them!!! I sure as hell wouldn't buy any Samscum products. As for China, People there like the iPhone. iOS is only on Apple's iPhone, not anyone else. Why would anyone in China pay for a Samscum Android phone? There's China made phones with huge screens and all the bells running forked Android for $200. Samscum is not going to win any price war in China with their phones. it'll be a race to the bottom with slim to none profit margins for Samscum, and they'll in the end lose.

    Fandroids can't go Apple Apple for Small screens anymore. What's left? Well they can try the same old iOS looks the same since the original iPhone and nothing has changed. They've tired the large Bezzle around the iPhone thing and that hasn't been working. that perfect TouchID button rocks!!! Far better then that swipe crap on Samscums phone or any other past phone. All they seem to be able to latch onto currently is the so called bendgate. Yet Consumer Reports, the same company that did Antennagate on the iPhone 4 and used that to bash Apple over the head with, ignore or make up excuses or pretend it never happened when the HTC One M8 bent easier then either iPhone!!! So that Android phone must really be a pile of poopoo. Yet they won't say anything about it. It's so funny. Don't get we wrong, I like the design of the phone and if iOS was on it, it would be perfect.
  • Reply 158 of 222
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    ricmac wrote: »
    I have never bought into the idea that Apple "needs" competition.  I really doubt that Apple pays attention to things that way.  I think the whole culture that Steve Jobs built with his return to Apple (and THAT is his single greatest "product") that culture is one of a giant company that acts like and thinks like a start up.  Apple sees APPLE as it's greatest competitor.  Just my humble opinion.

    Apple doesn't build a big phone if it weren't for the competition.
  • Reply 159 of 222

    Why all the samsung bashing. Yes I love the iphone and think Samsung phones are crap, but that doesnt make all Samsung products crap. My Samsung TV has gave me years of trouble free TV watching. 

    If the iphone was the only smart phone on the market, then that too would not be as good as it is today. Competition is the key to truly great products. 

     

    BTW Apple was nearly dead and buried before Jobs came back. Gloating is not something I will do to others misfortune. 

     

    Gary. 

  • Reply 160 of 222
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,541member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DiegoG View Post



    This article references Samsung Mobile which is separate from the company that produces the DRAM.

    While Samsung Group is the overall conglomerate and comprises multiple companies, the flagship "company" of the group is Samsung Electronics.  Samsung Electronics has multiple divisions, including displays, mobile phones, semiconductors, TV's, and "other" (printers, cameras, camcorders, etc).  So Samsung Electronics is indeed the company that produces the DRAM, and as a company they report their aggregate revenues and profits.  Mobile and TV's are mentioned in the article as the primary reasons for the profit decline.  I believe their quarterly reports split out the revenue by division, but not sure.

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