Seems to be the hardest every yet a, but I'd you want to talk of logic then logically Apple should have the capacities available to fit their customer needs which will mean that certain vendors, certain location, and even certain times in the product cycle will have different demand requirements.
Watch everyone defending Apple for keeping 16GB as the base model then fellate them when they make it 32GB.
What a moronic statement. I don't think Apple NEEDS to change their base storage, because I think it would be bad for their bottom line and their business, never mind the fact that a shitload of people are perfectly fine with 16GB. At the same time, as a consumer I'm not going to complain if I can get a 32GB for the same price as a 16GB. Hell, I also wouldn't mind 256GB for the same price. I also wouldn't mind if I got a free Mac Pro with my iPhone purchase. But I can also acknowledge that all those things would be horrible business moves.
There's absolutely nothing contradictory about those statements, and it's sad that you need to use sexual implications instead of actually understanding some subtlety and the arguments being used.
So why did they NEED to change it from 4GB and 8GB?
Apple changed the base storage of the iPhone AFTER the App Store became part of the ecosystem.If Apple is going to a 12Mb camera, then the base storage may go up again - then again, it may not. Apple's got this covered, and is using a lot more data to decide then you and I have.
If Apple increased the base storage to 64GB, far more people would upgrade every year. Why? Because when you upgrade you lose all that storage you purchased. You can't move it to the new phone so you have to buy it again at Apple's gigantic premium. I know I held off buying a new iPad last year for this reason.
This is so stupid, that merely
reading it gave me a headache.
No, your 64 gigabytes doesn't "get lost" when you upgrade. You don't "lose" anything.
It does however, raise the value of your old phone when you try to sell it.
You may get 200$ for a 16gb iPhone 5 on Craigslist, but the 64gb will go for 250$.
Plenty of people don't need more than 16gb space, but for those who do, the higher resale value comes in handy when it's time to upgrade.
Nope. You can't buy one without being presented with a storage choice. You can't accidentally buy the wrong iPhone because you have to also specify the carrier and the color, in addition to storage. Wanna try again?
To be fair, the majority of people buy a phone in store in person. Not online. Some of the people buying the 16GB iPhone don't even have a computer to buy the iPhone with. They go in looking for the cheapest iPhone possible.
Nope. You can't buy one without being presented with a storage choice. You can't accidentally buy the wrong iPhone because you have to also specify the carrier and the color, in addition to storage. Wanna try again?
To be fair, the majority of people buy a phone in store in person. Not online. Some of the people buying the 16GB iPhone don't even have a computer to buy the iPhone with. They go in looking for the cheapest iPhone possible.
Or they get talked into buying it because that's what the store has, just like some people get talked into buying an Android phone.
If 16GB is plenty of storage for so many people why did Apple feel the need to increase 32GB to 64GB? Same reason they offered 5 models of iPad last year: upsell.
Keep the original iPad mini around so Phil Schiller can have a slide that says iPad starts at "just $249". Keep the iPad mini 2 around so marketing can say for only $50 more you get a much better product. And introduce the iPad mini 3 with iPad mini 2 specs so marketing can say for only $100 more you get a much better product with A8X chip and 2GB RAM (though they'd never mention the RAM bit but of course know people will find out about it via teardowns).
I'm sure Apple marketing and finance ran the numbers and had a good idea how many people would upgrade from 16GB to 64GB because hey it's 4x the storage for only $100 more. And I'm sure they also know once someone upgrades and starts filling up that storage they're more likely to keep upgrading to that configuration. And they also knew they had more $$$ to play around with at the higher end. Offering 4x the storage for only $100 more doesn't appear to have eaten into profits but it did increase margins and ASPs which no doubt was the plan all along.
In the holiday quarter Apple posted a record $18 billion in profit. No company in history has ever posted a profit that high. And you want us to believe that Apple is sacrificing profits? No the only reason 16 GB exist is so Phil Schiller can upsell people and get them to spend $100 more. The more he's able to upsell the higher the margins and ASPs.
Rogifan, you do not understand business or supply and demand. A product's value has nothing to do with its cost to produce. A product's value is only determined by the price that the customers are willing to pay for it. Clearly, Apple's iPhones are worth what Apple is charging because record numbers of people are gladly opening their wallets. (Truth be told, Apple could probably get away with charging a little more.) Charging less or falling to up-sell whenever possible (meaning that the more expensive product is deemed worth the cost) is tantamount to selling at less than value. Please, oh please, get that through your head.
The fact that Apple is making record profits only proves that they are doing something right, and they can just keep on doing those things and setting new records as far as I'm concerned. And I will happily keep opening my wallet to support their excellent performance and strategy.
Oh, quit beating your little toy drum. There will be users who won't be able to fill 16 Gb, and others for whom 16Gb isn't enough; for the latter they can quadruple their storage for $100. "Pissed off customers," indeed!
Go to eBay where products are street-priced to sell - see how iPhone's value is perceived by buyers. See how your above pissing and moaning about good will doesn't hold water. Your "good will" name on this board is better then this crusade you manufactured. You're hurting your own brand.
Actually, this is Rogifans exact brand. As long as I remember, his/her posts have entailed nothing but whining and concern-trolling.
And why don't they have them? Because the salespeople have already sold out of those higher capacity models via up sells. Now you know why they have 16GB in stock.
You're pulling an invented performance/storage capacity matrix out your ass? You just took the crown for this thread.
That was an interesting response. As performance increases the applications that can be used and the work that can be done on the device also increase. Even if we put aside applications for now, people are taking more pictures, videos as the quality of the camera increases people are using it more and more. These files take up a lot of space. When it comes to apps they are growing in size and the amount of applications that can now be used on a phone are massive.
Users can functionally use iLife, iWorks and MS applications on their phone and save their work on their devices. With the iPhone 6 Plus it is certainly big enough editing work using these applications works well.
Storing fitness tracking data, downloading Apple Watch applications on the iPhone to use with an Apple Watch. More powerful games that take up space. Buying videos, music, movies, tv show, using Apple Music and download songs and playlists for offline use.
I fail to understand how this doesn't add up. Maybe I'm not pulling something out of my ass maybe you're just being an ass.
Doesn't make much sense making a devices thinner, lighter, faster, adding more RAM if you believe the rumors and having storage space that is disproportionate.
Rogifan, you do not understand business or supply and demand. A product's value has nothing to do with its cost to produce. A product's value is only determined by the price that the customers are willing to pay for it. Clearly, Apple's iPhones are worth what Apple is charging because record numbers of people are gladly opening their wallets. (Truth be told, Apple could probably get away with charging a little more.) Charging less or falling to up-sell whenever possible (meaning that the more expensive product is deemed worth the cost) is tantamount to selling at less than value. Please, oh please, get that through your head.
The fact that Apple is making record profits only proves that they are doing something right, and they can just keep on doing those things and setting new records as far as I'm concerned. And I will happily keep opening my wallet to support their excellent performance and strategy.
Thompson
So then I guess everyone here would give a big thumbs up to the redesigns of iOS and OS X? Because hey Apple is selling more devices than ever and making record profits so...
Btw I was never a fan of the iOS 6 style design language so I'm glad Apple made the change.
That's not what Phil Schiller said. He expects people to use iCloud as their storage instead of locally stored.
And that's a big problem in my estimation. The cloud is important for a lot of things, but I have no desire to be tethered to it 24/7 to access my stuff. Wifi is not close to being everywhere, and cellular data is both unreliable and very costly. As a family of four we are already paying AT&T about $230 a month for our four iPhones, that I have no desire to spend another $50-70 a month just for the privilege to access my data slowly and unreliably
That's why I'm disliking Apple Music so much. To use the simple feature of offline listening of Apple Music, you are forced to use iCloud Music library, which in turn completey disables local sync and dumps everything to the cloud. It now become a very laborious and unreliable process to make sure you have all your media on all your devices to avoid using or relying on cellular data,and I'm three days into doing this on all four accounts, and it's still not right/complete.
They pulled the same nonsense with Photos in the Cloud when they removed local IPhoto share which we used in the house. We're not uploading 25,000 photos and paying for that privilege when the local option with occasional cloud sharing worked fine. And Home Sharing capabilities are being pulled back as well.
An all cloud based existence is nice in theory, but has very really coat and reliability limitations. It should be an option for those that want to do it, but everyone should not be forced to when there are plenty of legitimate reasons to not want to.
I'm fine with them making their money, but philosophically, I have concerns Apple is not thinking intensely as it used to about what is right for their customers as well as for themselves.
Rogifan, this debate really heads south for you when you try to make some sort of business argument about it. This is purely a personal argument. You think 16GB is too small, and the problem is that not enough of customer's feel that's the case, so you're not going to get your wish until enough consumers complain or Apple begins to sell less phones.
Device financing has really made it affordable for consumers to just opt for the 64GB model. It's a difference of roughly $4 a month on a 2 year lease. If you opt to early upgrade, it's a difference of $50
If you think it's just a matter of principal. Go buy an Android phone. Galaxy S6, HTC M9, G4 start at 32GB and the G4 lets you pop in a Micro SD. It's not a bad platform and lollipop has made it really clean and easy to use. You have choices, go for them. Vote with your wallet...not complain on a board filled with Apple fans and shareholders.
And why don't they have them? Because the salespeople have already sold out of those higher capacity models via up sells. Now you know why they have 16GB in stock.
And you don't think those salespeople then dupe people into buying the 16GB model?
If 16GB is plenty of storage for so many people why did Apple feel the need to increase 32GB to 64GB? Same reason they offered 5 models of iPad last year: upsell.
Keep the original iPad mini around so Phil Schiller can have a slide that says iPad starts at "just $249". Keep the iPad mini 2 around so marketing can say for only $50 more you get a much better product. And introduce the iPad mini 3 with iPad mini 2 specs so marketing can say for only $100 more you get a much better product with A8X chip and 2GB RAM (though they'd never mention the RAM bit but of course know people will find out about it via teardowns).
I'm sure Apple marketing and finance ran the numbers and had a good idea how many people would upgrade from 16GB to 64GB because hey it's 4x the storage for only $100 more. And I'm sure they also know once someone upgrades and starts filling up that storage they're more likely to keep upgrading to that configuration. And they also knew they had more $$$ to play around with at the higher end. Offering 4x the storage for only $100 more doesn't appear to have eaten into profits but it did increase margins and ASPs which no doubt was the plan all along.
Apple wants there customers to buy the more expensive model. SHOCKING!
Welcome to Business 101.
You act like its dispicable that Apple makes the higher end models more appealing.
Tell me what price tiers would you like to see? I want you to price out the 3 tiers.
My guess from reading your tears is:
32 GB $199
64 GB $299
128 GB $399
Is that what you want Appke to do?
But now the 64GB model is only $100 more instead of $200, so Apple is losing billions.
And you don't think those salespeople then dupe people into buying the 16GB model?
Possible. I'm just pointing out the original assumption was wrong. How many of a certain device in stores has NOTHING to do with the percentage of people buying them. There are many possibilities for a certain model being in stock and another being out of stock.
To draw any conclusions about what Apple should change for minimum storage based on anecdotal evidence of what your local store has in stock is beyond idiotic.
Comments
Appeasing everyone is not logical.
Apple changed the base storage of the iPhone AFTER the App Store became part of the ecosystem.If Apple is going to a 12Mb camera, then the base storage may go up again - then again, it may not. Apple's got this covered, and is using a lot more data to decide then you and I have.
This is so stupid, that merely
reading it gave me a headache.
No, your 64 gigabytes doesn't "get lost" when you upgrade. You don't "lose" anything.
It does however, raise the value of your old phone when you try to sell it.
You may get 200$ for a 16gb iPhone 5 on Craigslist, but the 64gb will go for 250$.
Plenty of people don't need more than 16gb space, but for those who do, the higher resale value comes in handy when it's time to upgrade.
To be fair, the majority of people buy a phone in store in person. Not online. Some of the people buying the 16GB iPhone don't even have a computer to buy the iPhone with. They go in looking for the cheapest iPhone possible.
Or they get talked into buying it because that's what the store has, just like some people get talked into buying an Android phone.
Or they get talked into buying it because that's what the store has, just like some people get talked into buying an Android phone.
And the salesperson at the store would NEVER talk a person into buying the higher capacity iPhone.
Not if they don't have them.
Keep the original iPad mini around so Phil Schiller can have a slide that says iPad starts at "just $249". Keep the iPad mini 2 around so marketing can say for only $50 more you get a much better product. And introduce the iPad mini 3 with iPad mini 2 specs so marketing can say for only $100 more you get a much better product with A8X chip and 2GB RAM (though they'd never mention the RAM bit but of course know people will find out about it via teardowns).
I'm sure Apple marketing and finance ran the numbers and had a good idea how many people would upgrade from 16GB to 64GB because hey it's 4x the storage for only $100 more. And I'm sure they also know once someone upgrades and starts filling up that storage they're more likely to keep upgrading to that configuration. And they also knew they had more $$$ to play around with at the higher end. Offering 4x the storage for only $100 more doesn't appear to have eaten into profits but it did increase margins and ASPs which no doubt was the plan all along.
In the holiday quarter Apple posted a record $18 billion in profit. No company in history has ever posted a profit that high. And you want us to believe that Apple is sacrificing profits? No the only reason 16 GB exist is so Phil Schiller can upsell people and get them to spend $100 more. The more he's able to upsell the higher the margins and ASPs.
Rogifan, you do not understand business or supply and demand. A product's value has nothing to do with its cost to produce. A product's value is only determined by the price that the customers are willing to pay for it. Clearly, Apple's iPhones are worth what Apple is charging because record numbers of people are gladly opening their wallets. (Truth be told, Apple could probably get away with charging a little more.) Charging less or falling to up-sell whenever possible (meaning that the more expensive product is deemed worth the cost) is tantamount to selling at less than value. Please, oh please, get that through your head.
The fact that Apple is making record profits only proves that they are doing something right, and they can just keep on doing those things and setting new records as far as I'm concerned. And I will happily keep opening my wallet to support their excellent performance and strategy.
Thompson
Actually, this is Rogifans exact brand. As long as I remember, his/her posts have entailed nothing but whining and concern-trolling.
And why don't they have them? Because the salespeople have already sold out of those higher capacity models via up sells. Now you know why they have 16GB in stock.
You're pulling an invented performance/storage capacity matrix out your ass? You just took the crown for this thread.
That was an interesting response. As performance increases the applications that can be used and the work that can be done on the device also increase. Even if we put aside applications for now, people are taking more pictures, videos as the quality of the camera increases people are using it more and more. These files take up a lot of space. When it comes to apps they are growing in size and the amount of applications that can now be used on a phone are massive.
Users can functionally use iLife, iWorks and MS applications on their phone and save their work on their devices. With the iPhone 6 Plus it is certainly big enough editing work using these applications works well.
Storing fitness tracking data, downloading Apple Watch applications on the iPhone to use with an Apple Watch. More powerful games that take up space. Buying videos, music, movies, tv show, using Apple Music and download songs and playlists for offline use.
I fail to understand how this doesn't add up. Maybe I'm not pulling something out of my ass maybe you're just being an ass.
Doesn't make much sense making a devices thinner, lighter, faster, adding more RAM if you believe the rumors and having storage space that is disproportionate.
So then I guess everyone here would give a big thumbs up to the redesigns of iOS and OS X? Because hey Apple is selling more devices than ever and making record profits so...
Btw I was never a fan of the iOS 6 style design language so I'm glad Apple made the change.
And that's a big problem in my estimation. The cloud is important for a lot of things, but I have no desire to be tethered to it 24/7 to access my stuff. Wifi is not close to being everywhere, and cellular data is both unreliable and very costly. As a family of four we are already paying AT&T about $230 a month for our four iPhones, that I have no desire to spend another $50-70 a month just for the privilege to access my data slowly and unreliably
That's why I'm disliking Apple Music so much. To use the simple feature of offline listening of Apple Music, you are forced to use iCloud Music library, which in turn completey disables local sync and dumps everything to the cloud. It now become a very laborious and unreliable process to make sure you have all your media on all your devices to avoid using or relying on cellular data,and I'm three days into doing this on all four accounts, and it's still not right/complete.
They pulled the same nonsense with Photos in the Cloud when they removed local IPhoto share which we used in the house. We're not uploading 25,000 photos and paying for that privilege when the local option with occasional cloud sharing worked fine. And Home Sharing capabilities are being pulled back as well.
An all cloud based existence is nice in theory, but has very really coat and reliability limitations. It should be an option for those that want to do it, but everyone should not be forced to when there are plenty of legitimate reasons to not want to.
I'm fine with them making their money, but philosophically, I have concerns Apple is not thinking intensely as it used to about what is right for their customers as well as for themselves.
Rogifan, this debate really heads south for you when you try to make some sort of business argument about it. This is purely a personal argument. You think 16GB is too small, and the problem is that not enough of customer's feel that's the case, so you're not going to get your wish until enough consumers complain or Apple begins to sell less phones.
Device financing has really made it affordable for consumers to just opt for the 64GB model. It's a difference of roughly $4 a month on a 2 year lease. If you opt to early upgrade, it's a difference of $50
If you think it's just a matter of principal. Go buy an Android phone. Galaxy S6, HTC M9, G4 start at 32GB and the G4 lets you pop in a Micro SD. It's not a bad platform and lollipop has made it really clean and easy to use. You have choices, go for them. Vote with your wallet...not complain on a board filled with Apple fans and shareholders.
And you don't think those salespeople then dupe people into buying the 16GB model?
But now the 64GB model is only $100 more instead of $200, so Apple is losing billions.
Possible. I'm just pointing out the original assumption was wrong. How many of a certain device in stores has NOTHING to do with the percentage of people buying them. There are many possibilities for a certain model being in stock and another being out of stock.
To draw any conclusions about what Apple should change for minimum storage based on anecdotal evidence of what your local store has in stock is beyond idiotic.
WTH are you talking about? Where are you getting this $200 figure from?