I guess the bottom line for me is I don't have issues with cars and I don't understand why some are so eager to get rid of them or think their demise is imminent.
expensive. wasteful. dirty. there ya go.
(but let me guess, as a U.S. social conservative you don't believe in AGW...)
I guess the bottom line for me is I don't have issues with cars and I don't understand why some are so eager to get rid of them or think their demise is imminent.
Imminent for sure not. And I agree that individual and independent mobility is and will stay important for quite some time. There will be more concepts like car sharing, Uber etc but individual mobility has its role. Actually, globally it is on a rise when looking at India and China.
The one thing that's pretty clear is the limitation given by the availability of oil. And some years down the road pollution from exactly these countries where traffic is growing like crazy. This will sooner or later have a huge impact on cars as we see them today and also on individual mobility as well that will go beyond replacing a old school fuel injection big block by a flux compensator
an apple car would only be as good as a natural language parser? can you explain that strange comparison? because on the surface it doesn't make any fucking sense.
The point is that a self driving car is expected to be much more safe than current human driven cars. Reaching the same level of safety would not be acceptable.
The point is that a self driving car is expected to be much more safe than current human driven cars. Reaching the same level of safety would not be acceptable.
again -- what on earth does that have to do with a natural language parser? failing to see how Siri is the bar, here.
again -- what on earth does that have to do with a natural language parser? failing to see how Siri is the bar, here.
Ah this. Nothing, I'd say. Either it was meant to be ironic, like Siri being unreliable so would apple's car. Or it was meant Siriously . In the end my post was referring to the expected level of performance, not to the comparison.
an apple car would only be as good as a natural language parser? can you explain that strange comparison? because on the surface it doesn't make any fucking sense.
Ok, Siri was announced as a revolutionary service with a somewhat more 'real' AI.
In practice it was not much better than other services and no real AI in sight.
I suspect a self driving car (if Apple does such a thing, which I hope they do not) will be introduced in a similar way and will disappoint in a similar way.
I'm with you. I'm not one bit interested in self driving cars. I want to drive my own car that I can use whenever I want to go wherever I want. To me the automobile is the ultimate symbol of freedom in those trying to get rid of it are just taking that freedom away. I don't want to have to request an Uber driver every time I want to go somewhere.
I just read a Benedict Evans piece that was very bearish on Apple in the car space. He thinks the space will be Google and Uber. I think that's Silicon Valley bias. Not everyone is single and living in a big city. If you live in the suburbs and have a family you're going to have your own vehicle. You're not going to be calling an Uber driver every time you want to go somewhere. And for all those who say cars sit idle 90% of the time...well so what? So so does my washer and dryer and kitchen oven. That doesn't mean they should be replaced with dry cleaners and takeout.
I'm pretty confident that in less than 20 years, "autopilot" functions for cars will be a requirement and people will either not be able to get a license without it, or your insurance will be sky high. Government and the insurance industry will push hard on this to cut down drastically on accidents, plus the majority Boomer population is aging and will need the additional safety features.
Didn't anyone stop to think that there is still a valid reason for a grill (nee, an opening in front)? Large batteries need to be cooled as do motors. Is the possibility of a hybrid out of the question (either the gas powered generator or gas driven powertrain that can supplement the electrics)? There is also a need for a HVAC system which generally uses fresh filtered air passed thru a heat exchanger to get hot or cold air -- I know I don't want to have to rely on 4/80 AC ;) and electric seat warmers and/or strip heaters to warm up (i.e., electric heaters are really inefficient).
I realize that the comments started out about the Tesla but the (vapor) iCar stuck its head up really quick -- IMHO this is still very much a research project that may become a product. Apple will do its due diligence and in 5+ years may release a product. I'd love it!
To repeat, all the cooling air the batteries and the AC need is now coming through the smaller air intakes surrounding the big, yawning opening, which is itself blank to incoming air, since it's completely plugged with one big convex slab of plastic.
What's the explanation for this design curiosity? Behind the plastic non-grill, aside from the sensors mentioned by yoyo2222, is an empty, fabric-lined luggage space. Are you saying they were thinking of putting a gasoline-powered generator in there? The mind reels.
This whole grill business is one of the very few details that makes me question the engineering thoroughness of the Tesla. Otherwise, it seems to be a brilliant car.
Let me try to help you have a higher opinion of the Tesla engineers. The plastic nose cone, which looks unpleasant to some people, helps give the Model S the lowest coefficient of drag of any mass production car. A low drag coefficient enables better performance in terms of acceleration, stability, and range. By making it out of plastic, rather than the aluminum (or aluminium, if you prefer) of the rest of the car body, it provides for very inexpensive repairs for low speed front collisions. This is required by auto safety administration regulations in many countries, including the US (NHTSA). I think there is truth in the suggestion that they wanted it to look a lot like other cars look. They have plenty of obstacles to adoption of the electric car platform, and they probably did not want to take a chance on some freaky sci-fi looking design, knowing they were going to build hundreds of thousands of them. It might have been nice to have the front look like Angelina Jolie's lips, but in the real world, that is not feasible.
I guess the bottom line for me is I don't have issues with cars and I don't understand why some are so eager to get rid of them or think their demise is imminent.
Let me try to help you have a higher opinion of the Tesla engineers. The plastic nose cone, which looks unpleasant to some people, helps give the Model S the lowest coefficient of drag of any mass production car. A low drag coefficient enables better performance in terms of acceleration, stability, and range. By making it out of plastic, rather than the aluminum (or aluminium, if you prefer) of the rest of the car body, it provides for very inexpensive repairs for low speed front collisions. This is required by auto safety administration regulations in many countries, including the US (NHTSA). I think there is truth in the suggestion that they wanted it to look a lot like other cars look. They have plenty of obstacles to adoption of the electric car platform, and they probably did not want to take a chance on some freaky sci-fi looking design, knowing they were going to build hundreds of thousands of them. It might have been nice to have the front look like Angelina Jolie's lips, but in the real world, that is not feasible.
Sounds reasonable. Repairability is grear goal when it comes to the nose of a sculpted car. The Karmann Ghia nose was always as much Bondo as sheet metal after a few years of parking on city streets.
Apple should just splash the petty cash and buy Tesla. It would save years of R&D and they could sell them in Apple Stores around the work and out back of each store have a charging station since all Apple Stores are going to be carbon neutral anyway. Eon would head up the electric vehicles division and have a seat on the Apple Board. Done deal....
Porsche proved that with the most sensuous front ends ever on their 356 models.
??? The 356? The engines were in the back and they were air-cooled. So was the 911 up until 1998. No need for a grille in front. They did have louvres on the deck lid for cooling though. I agree, they are beautiful.
??? The 356? The engines were in the back and they were air-cooled. So was the 911 up until 1998. No need for a grille in front. They did have louvres on the deck lid for cooling though. I agree, they are beautiful.
And so is the main motor in the Tesla in the back, the way God intended : ). Put the working weight over the drive wheels, keep unnecessary weight off the steering wheels. Smooth out the front for aerodynamics by getting rid of the radiator grill. It was always the sensible way to lay out a car, but people were scared of it in the end.
I imagine all the empty space ahead of the driver and passengers in the Tesla is about energy-absorbing crumple structures.
Let me try to help you have a higher opinion of the Tesla engineers. The plastic nose cone, which looks unpleasant to some people, helps give the Model S the lowest coefficient of drag of any mass production car. A low drag coefficient enables better performance in terms of acceleration, stability, and range. By making it out of plastic, rather than the aluminum (or aluminium, if you prefer) of the rest of the car body, it provides for very inexpensive repairs for low speed front collisions. This is required by auto safety administration regulations in many countries, including the US (NHTSA). I think there is truth in the suggestion that they wanted it to look a lot like other cars look. They have plenty of obstacles to adoption of the electric car platform, and they probably did not want to take a chance on some freaky sci-fi looking design, knowing they were going to build hundreds of thousands of them. It might have been nice to have the front look like Angelina Jolie's lips, but in the real world, that is not feasible.
Attention, Photoshoppers! We need to see this...now!
I’ve always loved the idea of an Apple Car, but I really want the design to be both revolutionary and practical. Apple’s in a position to do what the car companies are too terrified to do: change up the design concept in a radical(ly better) way.
The reason the current breed of Human Operated cars look bulky is because they have to take human error into account. Read: They are designed with safety in mind because the car needs to absorb energy when the human crashes his car. This happens very regularly considering the high number of road kills.
Not so much with a Self Driving Car. We could go back to the nimble sensual designs of European cars in the sixties and fifties. However, there is no need for a gasoline engine, gasoline reservoir, exhaust pipe and smiley face cooling radiator. Heck, even the dashboard becomes obsolete because one could control his car with his iPhone/iPad. And while we are at it: a steering wheel, gear shift and brake pedal are confined to the history books as well.
Make no mistake. A Self Driving Car is a paradigm shift in the history of mobility. The whole experience will be unlike anything we have been accustomed to.
The reason the current breed of Human Operated cars look bulky is because they have to take human error into account. Read: They are designed with safety in mind because the car needs to absorb energy when the human crashes his car. This happens very regularly considering the high number of road kills.
Not so much with a Self Driving Car. We could go back to the nimble sensual designs of European cars in the sixties and fifties. However, there is no need for a gasoline engine, gasoline reservoir, exhaust pipe and smiley face cooling radiator. Heck, even the dashboard becomes obsolete because one could control his car with his iPhone/iPad. And while we are at it: a steering wheel, gear shift and brake pedal are confined to the history books as well.
Make no mistake. A Self Driving Car is a paradigm shift in the history of mobility. The whole experience will be unlike anything we have been accustomed to.
Not completely different. It will be "the chauffeur service for the rest of us".
Make no mistake. A Self Driving Car is a paradigm shift in the history of mobility. The whole experience will be unlike anything we have been accustomed to.
And yet I’ll never buy anything I can’t drive myself. I’ll just have the benefit of pretty designs.
And yet I’ll never buy anything I can’t drive myself. I’ll just have the benefit of pretty designs.
No one has figured out the business model of Self Driving Cars, yet:
Would you need to insure a Self Driving Car for theft? For accidents?
Would you need to buy a Self Driving Car or just make use of the platform using an über like app?
Could you have a family plan for your car?
Apple, Google and über are best positioned to respond to these kind of Challenges. The pretty Human controlled leisure cars are confined as extravaganzas for the week-end. Like old-timers on rural roads or sports cars on race circuits.
The reason the current breed of Human Operated cars look bulky is because they have to take human error into account. Read: They are designed with safety in mind because the car needs to absorb energy when the human crashes his car. This happens very regularly considering the high number of road kills.
Not so much with a Self Driving Car. We could go back to the nimble sensual designs of European cars in the sixties and fifties. However, there is no need for a gasoline engine, gasoline reservoir, exhaust pipe and smiley face cooling radiator. Heck, even the dashboard becomes obsolete because one could control his car with his iPhone/iPad. And while we are at it: a steering wheel, gear shift and brake pedal are confined to the history books as well.
Make no mistake. A Self Driving Car is a paradigm shift in the history of mobility. The whole experience will be unlike anything we have been accustomed to.
Self driving cars will still have to have safety features in case another car collides with it. No self driving system is going to be smart enough to avoid any possible collision when there are other drivers in the fray.
Comments
expensive. wasteful. dirty. there ya go.
(but let me guess, as a U.S. social conservative you don't believe in AGW...)
Imminent for sure not. And I agree that individual and independent mobility is and will stay important for quite some time. There will be more concepts like car sharing, Uber etc but individual mobility has its role. Actually, globally it is on a rise when looking at India and China.
The one thing that's pretty clear is the limitation given by the availability of oil. And some years down the road pollution from exactly these countries where traffic is growing like crazy. This will sooner or later have a huge impact on cars as we see them today and also on individual mobility as well that will go beyond replacing a old school fuel injection big block by a flux compensator
The point is that a self driving car is expected to be much more safe than current human driven cars. Reaching the same level of safety would not be acceptable.
again -- what on earth does that have to do with a natural language parser? failing to see how Siri is the bar, here.
Ah this. Nothing, I'd say. Either it was meant to be ironic, like Siri being unreliable so would apple's car. Or it was meant Siriously
an apple car would only be as good as a natural language parser? can you explain that strange comparison? because on the surface it doesn't make any fucking sense.
Ok, Siri was announced as a revolutionary service with a somewhat more 'real' AI.
In practice it was not much better than other services and no real AI in sight.
I suspect a self driving car (if Apple does such a thing, which I hope they do not) will be introduced in a similar way and will disappoint in a similar way.
I guess someone needs to tell that to Jony Ive. I'm sure his $300K Bentley Mulsanne is quite the gas guzzler.
I'm with you. I'm not one bit interested in self driving cars. I want to drive my own car that I can use whenever I want to go wherever I want. To me the automobile is the ultimate symbol of freedom in those trying to get rid of it are just taking that freedom away. I don't want to have to request an Uber driver every time I want to go somewhere.
I just read a Benedict Evans piece that was very bearish on Apple in the car space. He thinks the space will be Google and Uber. I think that's Silicon Valley bias. Not everyone is single and living in a big city. If you live in the suburbs and have a family you're going to have your own vehicle. You're not going to be calling an Uber driver every time you want to go somewhere. And for all those who say cars sit idle 90% of the time...well so what? So so does my washer and dryer and kitchen oven. That doesn't mean they should be replaced with dry cleaners and takeout.
I'm pretty confident that in less than 20 years, "autopilot" functions for cars will be a requirement and people will either not be able to get a license without it, or your insurance will be sky high. Government and the insurance industry will push hard on this to cut down drastically on accidents, plus the majority Boomer population is aging and will need the additional safety features.
Let me try to help you have a higher opinion of the Tesla engineers. The plastic nose cone, which looks unpleasant to some people, helps give the Model S the lowest coefficient of drag of any mass production car. A low drag coefficient enables better performance in terms of acceleration, stability, and range. By making it out of plastic, rather than the aluminum (or aluminium, if you prefer) of the rest of the car body, it provides for very inexpensive repairs for low speed front collisions. This is required by auto safety administration regulations in many countries, including the US (NHTSA). I think there is truth in the suggestion that they wanted it to look a lot like other cars look. They have plenty of obstacles to adoption of the electric car platform, and they probably did not want to take a chance on some freaky sci-fi looking design, knowing they were going to build hundreds of thousands of them. It might have been nice to have the front look like Angelina Jolie's lips, but in the real world, that is not feasible.
You describing cars, or kids?
Sounds reasonable. Repairability is grear goal when it comes to the nose of a sculpted car. The Karmann Ghia nose was always as much Bondo as sheet metal after a few years of parking on city streets.
Eon would head up the electric vehicles division and have a seat on the Apple Board. Done deal....
??? The 356? The engines were in the back and they were air-cooled. So was the 911 up until 1998. No need for a grille in front. They did have louvres on the deck lid for cooling though. I agree, they are beautiful.
And so is the main motor in the Tesla in the back, the way God intended : ). Put the working weight over the drive wheels, keep unnecessary weight off the steering wheels. Smooth out the front for aerodynamics by getting rid of the radiator grill. It was always the sensible way to lay out a car, but people were scared of it in the end.
I imagine all the empty space ahead of the driver and passengers in the Tesla is about energy-absorbing crumple structures.
Attention, Photoshoppers! We need to see this...now!
I’ve always loved the idea of an Apple Car, but I really want the design to be both revolutionary and practical. Apple’s in a position to do what the car companies are too terrified to do: change up the design concept in a radical(ly better) way.
The reason the current breed of Human Operated cars look bulky is because they have to take human error into account. Read: They are designed with safety in mind because the car needs to absorb energy when the human crashes his car. This happens very regularly considering the high number of road kills.
Not so much with a Self Driving Car. We could go back to the nimble sensual designs of European cars in the sixties and fifties. However, there is no need for a gasoline engine, gasoline reservoir, exhaust pipe and smiley face cooling radiator. Heck, even the dashboard becomes obsolete because one could control his car with his iPhone/iPad. And while we are at it: a steering wheel, gear shift and brake pedal are confined to the history books as well.
Make no mistake. A Self Driving Car is a paradigm shift in the history of mobility. The whole experience will be unlike anything we have been accustomed to.
Not completely different. It will be "the chauffeur service for the rest of us".
Make no mistake. A Self Driving Car is a paradigm shift in the history of mobility. The whole experience will be unlike anything we have been accustomed to.
And yet I’ll never buy anything I can’t drive myself. I’ll just have the benefit of pretty designs.
And yet I’ll never buy anything I can’t drive myself. I’ll just have the benefit of pretty designs.
No one has figured out the business model of Self Driving Cars, yet:
Apple, Google and über are best positioned to respond to these kind of Challenges. The pretty Human controlled leisure cars are confined as extravaganzas for the week-end. Like old-timers on rural roads or sports cars on race circuits.
The reason the current breed of Human Operated cars look bulky is because they have to take human error into account. Read: They are designed with safety in mind because the car needs to absorb energy when the human crashes his car. This happens very regularly considering the high number of road kills.
Not so much with a Self Driving Car. We could go back to the nimble sensual designs of European cars in the sixties and fifties. However, there is no need for a gasoline engine, gasoline reservoir, exhaust pipe and smiley face cooling radiator. Heck, even the dashboard becomes obsolete because one could control his car with his iPhone/iPad. And while we are at it: a steering wheel, gear shift and brake pedal are confined to the history books as well.
Make no mistake. A Self Driving Car is a paradigm shift in the history of mobility. The whole experience will be unlike anything we have been accustomed to.
Self driving cars will still have to have safety features in case another car collides with it. No self driving system is going to be smart enough to avoid any possible collision when there are other drivers in the fray.