Microsoft unveils Surface Book laptop & Surface Pro 4 tablet with new Surface Pen

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  • Reply 241 of 251
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,680member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    1) Your comment screams BS. You think it compares to a 13" MBP. You start off buy listing the Macs you own and then when you make your facile comparison you don't mention that the Surface Book only gets 3 hours of battery life and no dGPU when used as a tablet. You also make no mention of price. The MBP starts $200 less than the Surface Book and the price disparity continues to increase as you move to the more expensive models. Additionally, you make no mention of use cases, why you need Windows when you have Macs for development, or why you need such a limited tablet when you can just use the 15" MBP you say you have along with an iPad (or some other tablet) for when you do need a tablet. You don't even list the Surface Book's processing speed when it (plus RAM and minimum storage) need to be higher than Mac OS X for doing the same tasks do to legacy overhead from rampant spaghetti code.



    2) Being a lousy tablet, that loses the key reasons, like battery life and a dGPU, Surface Book are important factors when choosing a device; so, yes, 3 hours of battery life is very important when talking about something you are expected to be considerably more mobile than a notebook... which gets 12 hours. Even the iPad gets 10 hours.



    3) I called one Microsoft Store. They said they won't likely have any in stock until the 26th. What Microsoft Store did you give it a through testing?



    Not having any SB in stock just means there isn't any for sale. I'm sure they have them on display.

  • Reply 242 of 251
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,680member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by solarfuse View Post

     

    Came across this thread while looking for Surface Book news.  I've been using Macs for around 4 years and use a rMBP 15" for development. It's a great machine. But I pre-ordered a Surface Book. This thing is a competitor to the rMBP 13".

     

    The rMBP 13" weighs 3.48 lbs (does not have a discreet GPU)

    The Surface Book weighs 3.48 lbs (for the high end model with GPU, 3.34 lbs with the non-GPU model)

     

    The rMBP gets up to 12 hours of movie playback

    The Surface Book gets up to 12 hours of movie playback

     

    The main difference is, I can take the screen off of the Surface Book and use it as a tablet. The rMBP cannot do that. I have tried using the Surface Book in the Microsoft Store. It feels like a premium product - I was surprised how thin the keyboard was. Much thinner than my rMBP 15" (looks more like an Air). When the screen is detached, it's incredibly light for a 13.5" screen - 1.6lbs. It's lighter than the Surface Pro 4 even though the screen is over an inch bigger (doesn't sound like much but it's a big difference). Of course when detached it has less battery life since the base contains the majority of the batteries. But that's the purpose of the device - a laptop that can also act as an occasional tablet (if your usage is the opposite get the Surface Pro 4). And that's exactly how I plan to use it. The rMBP is a laptop that can never be a tablet. That's the reason people, including us Macbook owners, desire the Surface Book. To say "it only gets 3 hours battery life in tablet mode, macbook gets N" is just stupid.

     

    The Surface Book is probably not perfect right now - it could use a kickstand on the tablet and probably a beefier video card. But for a version 1 device, I think it's pretty awesome.




    If you watch the interview with Satya Nadell;

     

    http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/7/9470861/microsoft-ceo-satya-nadella-interview-video-surface-book-windows-10

     

    He never calls the detached screen of the SB a tablet.  He repeatedly calls it a "digital clipboard."  That to me is telling - meaning it's designed mostly as a note-taking device as opposed to a "full-fledged" tablet.

  • Reply 243 of 251

    1) You're welcome to believe I have some secret agenda and I came here to spread "BS". Microsoft compared the Surface Book directly to the Macbook Pro in their unveiling. It's not something I made up just to start some online debate. That was obviously their target since they hit the weight and battery life exactly and it was specifically mentioned in the conference

     

     

    I use Macbook Pros for my job. I'm buying the Surface Book for myself.  What's so hard to believe? What's my use case? Exactly what Microsoft created the Surface Book for. 90% of the time I'm going to be using it as a laptop (coding, surfing the net), and 10% of the time I'm going to detach it and lay on the couch - maybe use it to queue up some youtube videos on Chromecast.  Maybe surf the internet for a bit. I'm thinking of learning how to draw on it. Yes the battery life in tablet mode isn't that great and I spent lots of time debating whether I should go with the SP4 or the SB. Once I tried out the Surface Book I made my decision. I'm still not 100% sure if I made the right decision (originally I was planning on buying the SP4 before they announced the SB). But I have 30 days to return it for a full refund.

     

    I didn't list the Surface Book's processing speed since I'm not sure if they're directly comparable. rMBP's have a higher clock rate but the SP4 and SB are the newer 6th generation chipset. It's probably a wash or negligible for most people..

     

    I've been given about 4 iPads from my business and I've gifted them all away. I'm not a big iPad fan. I don't know why you think having two devices is superior to having one. I think Microsoft has the correct strategy going forward.

     

    2) Microsoft is targeting two types of people.

     

    a. One who wants a tablet that can replace a laptop (with some compromises in screen size) with the SP4

    b. The other who wants a laptop with little compromises that can also act as a tablet (with some compromises.. mainly battery life and no kickstand) with the Surface Book.

     

    I fall into the latter category. Compared to the rMBP 13", the Surface Book has superior performance (with the dGPU) and can also double as a tablet. The rMBP gets 0 hours in tablet mode since... it cannot be used as a tablet.

     

     

    3) Only select Microsoft stores have them and the ones that do only have one unit (the reason explained to me is they wanted to keep it a secret). The 4 closest Microsoft stores to me do not have them. I contacted Microsoft and they were able to tell me the closest store that had one (1 hour away). All stores have plenty of SP4's for display.

     

    The Surface Book has some quirks - I never said it was perfect. Detaching and reattaching the display is not as simple as the SP4 and I'm not sure how stable Windows 10 is at this point. I did lots of research before I pre-ordered and many SB3 owners are reverting to Windows 8.1. I'm not too worried about the hinge. I've never stacked anything on top of any of my laptops. Even the old plastic Dell laptops can be stacked about 20 high before the screens start to crack (dont ask how I know) - I'm sure the hinge is plenty strong. It would not be good for my wife who tosses her Macbook Air into her canvas bag every day along with her keys, lipstick, and various other metal bits.

  • Reply 244 of 251
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CanukStorm View Post

     



    If you watch the interview with Satya Nadell;

     

    http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/7/9470861/microsoft-ceo-satya-nadella-interview-video-surface-book-windows-10

     

    He never calls the detached screen of the SB a tablet.  He repeatedly calls it a "digital clipboard."  That to me is telling - meaning it's designed mostly as a note-taking device as opposed to a "full-fledged" tablet.

     


     

    I realize that's how they're marketing it (even the MS store employees read the same script to me). The only major difference between the "clipboard" of the Surface Book and the SP4 is battery life (this is the major difference) and ports. The SB tablet is actually much nicer in your hands (a bigger display, better resolution, and slightly less weight). I doubt I would ever need the USB ports when I'm using it as a tablet so I don't really need those, but I might miss the SD card slot when working with photos which unfortunately is also in the base/keyboard.

     

    In tablet form they have roughly the same performance with equal specs. The i7 processor in the SP4 has the Intel Iris graphics so it should offer slightly superior video performance than the SB i7 tablet which has the intel hd graphics 520 (when detached from the dGPU base of course). But most people will opt for the i5 models of both devices and in that case they're essentially identical in tablet form.

  • Reply 245 of 251
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    1) Your comment screams BS. You think it compares to a 13" MBP. You start off buy listing the Macs you own and then when you make your facile comparison you don't mention that the Surface Book only gets 3 hours of battery life and no dGPU when used as a tablet. You also make no mention of price. The MBP starts $200 less than the Surface Book and the price disparity continues to increase as you move to the more expensive models. Additionally, you make no mention of use cases, why you need Windows when you have Macs for development, or why you need such a limited tablet when you can just use the 15" MBP you say you have along with an iPad (or some other tablet) for when you do need a tablet. You don't even list the Surface Book's processing speed when it (plus RAM and minimum storage) need to be higher than Mac OS X for doing the same tasks do to legacy overhead from rampant spaghetti code.



    2) Being a lousy tablet, that loses the key reasons, like battery life and a dGPU, Surface Book are important factors when choosing a device; so, yes, 3 hours of battery life is very important when talking about something you are expected to be considerably more mobile than a notebook... which gets 12 hours. Even the iPad gets 10 hours.



    3) I called one Microsoft Store. They said they won't likely have any in stock until the 26th. What Microsoft Store did you give it a through testing?



    All of his posts sound like commercials disguised as sincere comments.

  • Reply 246 of 251
    Originally Posted by solarfuse View Post

    2) Microsoft is targeting two types of people.

    a. One who wants a tablet that can replace a laptop (with some compromises in screen size) with the SP4

    b. The other who wants a laptop with little compromises that can also act as a tablet (with some compromises.. mainly battery life and no kickstand) with the Surface Book.




    So they’re targeting milquetoasts.

  • Reply 247 of 251
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

     



    All of his posts sound like commercials disguised as sincere comments.


     

    That's because all of my posts are being modified by the forum moderators (including this one which I've now removed the original post). If you want sincere comments I'm sorry but we'll have to converse on another website.

  • Reply 248 of 251
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    solarfuse wrote: »
    That's because all of my posts are being modified by the forum moderators (including this one which I've now removed the original post). If you want sincere comments I'm sorry but we'll have to converse on another website.

    What exactly was removed? Don't take anything you read here to offense. Since 2002 I've only recalled a handful of none Apple computers that the majority of the members really actually liked, even if a few of them do actually like a product they would rather still post a negative comment to fit in (for some it's almost habituary), think of it like High School. Anyway, the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book are both fantastic products, would make anyone who owns one of them extremely happy. I looked hard and long at the Surface Book but since I prefer using a tablet more than a notebook now, I again went with the Surface Pro 4 Though I didn't buy the keyboard this time as when it's sitting on my desk I always prefer using a MS Wedge Keyboard and Mouse. When traveling or out and about I'm extremely comfortable just using the virtual keyboard as Windows 10 has one of the best I've ever used. Anyway, be happy with your purchase as it's a good one, if not, well you're right, it has a 30 day return policy something the Apple Store no longer has, so if you don't like it, just return it for the Surface Pro 4.
  • Reply 249 of 251
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,680member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post





    What exactly was removed? Don't take anything you read here to offense. Since 2002 I've only recalled a handful of none Apple computers that the majority of the members really actually liked, even if a few of them do actually like a product they would rather still post a negative comment to fit in (for some it's almost habituary), think of it like High School. Anyway, the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book are both fantastic products, would make anyone who owns one of them extremely happy. I looked hard and long at the Surface Book but since I prefer using a tablet more than a notebook now, I again went with the Surface Pro 4 Though I didn't buy the keyboard this time as when it's sitting on my desk I always prefer using a MS Wedge Keyboard and Mouse. When traveling or out and about I'm extremely comfortable just using the virtual keyboard as Windows 10 has one of the best I've ever used. Anyway, be happy with your purchase as it's a good one, if not, well you're right, it has a 30 day return policy something the Apple Store no longer has, so if you don't like it, just return it for the Surface Pro 4.



    Or he / she could just purchase the iPad Pro.

  • Reply 250 of 251
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,242member

    I have to state that I'm completely turned off by the Surface Book; it is obviously an interim solution to a technical problem, performance, by splitting the "computer" and battery between the screen and the keyboard. Lots of hype behind this, but inherently a flawed solution better solved with future Intel technology, and it will be. I expect that the Surface Pro line will continue to be developed as MS's main mobility solution. 

     

    I'm also aware of the problems of using a touch screen in particular situations, and splitting the UI depending on which paradigm, touch or keyboard, is in use. It seems like a good solution for MS for a product line; who wouldn't want a 2 in 1 for value? The problem for MS is that the Surface product line doesn't actually compete very well with the iPad; a purely mobile device.

     

    One might consider it a race between Apple's development of ARM and supporting apps, versus repurposing Windows applications to lighter, thinner, mobile targeted hardware like the Surface Pro. While there are obvious limitations of iOS 9 apps today against Windows 10 applications, it's quite easy to make the case that the simplest design with the fewest compromises will probably be the better experience for iPad Pro's target market, creatives and Enterprise. I expect that the market will bear this out.

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