Microsoft unveils Surface Book laptop & Surface Pro 4 tablet with new Surface Pen

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  • Reply 141 of 251
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    From Paul Thurrott :lol:

    https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/microsoft-surface/6662/microsoft-surface-book-preview
    From that description, you may think that Microsoft has answered a long-running request to create a Surface Ultrabook. Sadly, it has not. The Surface Book is—frick it, I’ll just say it—ugly, with an awkward design due to its admittedly unique (looking) hinge. This detracts somewhat, I think, from the stated goal to create a no-compromises device.
  • Reply 142 of 251
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post

     



    Not sure what you are referring to... 13" screen is plenty big enough (same as a MacBook, which runs MS Office just fine), and 267dpi would make for a very crisp screen. I'm no Microsoft fan, but your response does not match reality at all.


    His/her response is wrong especially using Word and Visual Studio as two examples. The SP3 doesn't use the full resolution natively since the entire OS is scaled by default at 150% for an effective resolution of 1,440x960, so the text are super crisp and clear.

  • Reply 143 of 251
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    Edit: However, it is interesting that Apple did not need to separate battery and GPU electronics among 2 separate device components 

    This plus your comment about the trackpad shows just how Apple and MS' products are very different. There is no fan in the iPad Pro and I think there is a fan in EACH section of the Surface Book. There is also no need for a dGPU or extra battery life. The iPad Pro is a full machine in and of itself with a 10 hour battery life in the same weight as the Surface Pro tablet with 3 hours of battery life. Sure, the new Surface Pro tablet will be faster than the iPad Pro in raw CPU speeds, but it also has a much higher TDP, the aforementioned fan, and heatsinks that will cool the device through vents. Will the fans be heard or not?

    We also need to consider the operating systems on these devices. Win10 takes up a lot more room than iOS so what is the user really getting in terms of storage for each of the 128GB models. My guess is the iPad Pro has a lot more space for the user out of the box. Then there is real world performance. The Surface Book comes with 8GiB RAM and we've read the iPad Pro comes with 4GiB, but raw HW numbers mean nothing if the OS and apps that use them are less efficient or intelligent about how it's used. The same with the processing, which is why real world tests between the two for a given task are important. For some users, having access to legacy concepts that are outmoded in a modern age is what "feels' best for them, and possibly works for them if they still use certain types of Windows apps, others just have an irrational need to control where files are placed so having access to Windows Explorer so they can micro-manage their C:/System32 folder and RegEdit can be soothing. So be it... but the average user just wants something that works.

    Most interesting, is when you look at the prices of Apple's tablets and notebooks, and compare to the Surface products, you see Apple's products as being the most cost effective options—not just TCO, but out of the gate. Oh how times have changed.
  • Reply 144 of 251
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    If this was an Apple product, the forums would be full of people complaining about "obsession with thinness and weight."

    But it's a Microsoft product so it is automatically declared "impressive" and a sign that Apple is "losing its edge."

    Of course. I knew before this event ever took place that whatever Microsoft announced the tech media would go apeshit over it. Heck there was even someone on the MacRumors forum who claimed Apple was 10 years behind Microsoft after today. And then you have John Gruber kissing ass because Microsoft has sponsored his podcast (he even held an episode live from Bulld last year) and he doesn't want to be seen as an Apple fanboy. Sickening.
  • Reply 145 of 251
    aluopaluop Posts: 57member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

     

    And just like that ad, in the video already posted, the first image is of the Surface Book closed.

     

    If you* don't like it, fine, but making up reasons to dislike it is ridiculous.

     

     

    * By you, I of course, mean the great maker-upper of stuff, sog35


     

    I've never said if I like this Surface Book or not. I just read what you said and wanted to point out it's incorrect. Again, this is what you said: "Funny?  How often does Apple spend in showcase videos showing MacBooks closed?") and wanted to point out it's not right."

  • Reply 146 of 251
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by runbuh View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

     


    This picture looks "less breaky"?






    These internals look more "breaky."

  • Reply 147 of 251
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,707member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post



    Integrated GPUs have involved enough to cover pretty much all 2D needs fine

     

    Sure, if you're using MS Paint or similarly amateur tools for drawing and don't require/notice the features and performance an illustrator would.

     

    Try using an integrated GPU to drive a 4K (or similarly hi-res) display with professional graphics applications like Adobe Illustrator which have vector-based, pressure-sensitive, highly accurate pencil/marker/chalk/paintbrush style drawing and get low-latency using a stylus.  This is what professional artists demand from a tablet, and why it's interesting to see them so impressed with the iPad Pro.

  • Reply 148 of 251
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    Try using an integrated GPU to drive a 4K (or similarly hi-res) display with professional graphics applications like Adobe Illustrator which have vector-based, pressure-sensitive, highly accurate pencil/marker/chalk/paintbrush style drawing and get low-latency using a stylus.  This is what professional artists demand from a tablet, and why it's interesting to see them so impressed with the iPad Pro.


     

    I wonder, what would you think of trying to run Illustrator on a Core m3 processor with integrated graphics, which according to Geekbench is about as fast as the A9 in the iPhone 6?

     

    People always compare the base model Surface Pro 4 to the iPad Pro to show they are priced similarly, then go on and on about how the Surface Pro 4 is much more powerful and can run professional grade desktop applications the iPad Pro can't. Seems people like to talk about the price of the bare-bones Surface and the performance of the fully loaded i7 version in the same sentence without distinguishing them.

     

    I have a feeling the iPad Pro will kill the base model Surface Pro 4 and the Core m3 processor. The A9X should be plenty powerful, and with iOS small footprint and optimization would likely be more efficient than full Windows 10 on the Surface.

  • Reply 149 of 251
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    The more I look at photos of the Surface Book the uglier I think it is. It almost looks like a prop that you'd see in a furniture store. I actually think it might look better if the color was darker. With it being so light and the keys the same color it just looks so washed out.
  • Reply 150 of 251
    robertcrobertc Posts: 118member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

     

    Geekbench


    That's not exactly a reliable source for comparing x86 and ARM.

  • Reply 151 of 251
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,075member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Entropys View Post



    Looks like the surface 4 still doesn't have a SIM card and GPS, can't see any reference to it. Surprised if that is the case.



    You guys are looking at this from a personal purchase perspective. I know my corporate IT people are aggressively pushing surface tablets to replace iPads. They want to be MS only. There are many government and corporate IT types like that.



    The lack of a SIM card is a big disappointment.    While I think its great hardware (its about time Intel refreshed their chips finally) this does not take on either the iPad or iPad Pro as foundations for NEW Mobile applications.    I have a Surface 3 (with LTE) and its nice but not as light or fast as an iPad.    MS really should have released a Surface with the Core M chip- I guess that will be Surface 4 next year.

     

    I liked that the new Lumia phones have Type C connectors, but its a little disappointing that they didn't include one on the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book.    But you have to give some credit for knowing that as Apple updates hardware like the keyboard, they also need to innovate.      I'm interested seeing reviews on how it works.   

     

    Unfortunately lots of IT departments will be against Apple.  Apple's entry point will be Marketing.  MS seems to be trying harder but its going to take a while to see how successful it is in creating new applications in a similar way that iOS has opened up..

  • Reply 152 of 251
    palegolaspalegolas Posts: 1,361member
    This is highly competitive. Good specs, pretty good design,
    At some point the specs will allow fully professional use in a tight form factor.. This time is probably now.
    The truth is, should Apple have made a MacBook Pro 15" tablet that I could draw on, I'd have used it all the time, and probably not listed for an iPad pro, and been happy with one machine. This is because I'm an animator/ artist.
    Now I do want an iPad pro, but until there's some professional software and a professional file workflow that doesn't involve duplicating huge files over iCloud, (connecting a disk with 4K video for editing, hello??) it'll remain an additional (still great) device.
    If here's one killer feature of the Surface, it's file handling.
    If there's one killer feature of iOS, it's everything else ;) iPad still wins my heart.
  • Reply 153 of 251
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post





    Don't consider switching, do it. Put your money where your poor tastes want to go. You will get exactly what you asked for: a bag of phat specs attached to a novel form factor and saddled with Windows.

     

    Pretty sure you meant that to be condescending but... all I could think of was this picture.

  • Reply 154 of 251
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Boltsfan17 View Post

     

    I just checked out the prices on the preorder page. Geez, starts at $2,099 for the i7. It costs $2,699 for the i7 with 51GB. No thank you. I'll take a 15" MacBook Pro for cheaper. At least that will stay charged for longer than 3 hours. 


     

    Can't really make an accurate spec comparison until we see exact specs, so it's foolish this early to say what's better for what price or what isn't. All we know is that it's a 15W-TPD Skylake CPU, which makes it in the 6600 or 6500 Series i7s, with a Maxwell-based nVidia GPU pulling it into the 800M or 900M series. A 65W power supply limits it to the 950 series or below, and only the 950 series or higher has GDDR5 in the mobile arena so I'm guessing it's a 950M. Strangest thing is the 1GB of GDDR, which doesn't match any configuration nVidia has released thus far. It could be a custom 960M, which would explain the crappy battery, but that's pushing it I'd think.

     

    Based on that, even if it's a 6550 and low-clocked 950M, it's soundly beating even the current $2499 rMBP in performance. It's not that bad a deal comparing it to macbooks, but there's far better deals out there if you're after specs. What's disappointing is only 256GB of storage on a model that's above $2k, and charging an extra $600 for what seems to only be 8GB of RAM and 256GB of storage. Really?! There better be a CPU bump in there else that final $600 is a colossal waste of money.

  • Reply 155 of 251
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,680member



    just to play devil's advocate, here's one from Macworld;

     

    http://www.macworld.com/video/58643/surface-book-hands-on-microsofts-first-laptop-is-simply-amazing

     

    "Surface Book Hands-On: Microsoft's first laptop is simply amazing."

  • Reply 156 of 251
    pistispistis Posts: 247member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sflagel View Post

     

    That is indeed terrible




    Looks like a pair of tweezers to me!

  • Reply 157 of 251
    robertc wrote: »
    That's not exactly a reliable source for comparing x86 and ARM.

    I see you conveniently ignored the rest of my post. I wonder why?
  • Reply 158 of 251
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post

     

    I'm impressed. Apple is losing its edge to these competitors. Light, thin, elegant.... no longer Apple-defining characteristics.




    I'm impressed too, I think Apple should try to address this in some fashion better than they have with the iPadPro which is at least 1 year late to the game in my opinion.  But Light, thin, Elegant?   The only reason they have these characteristics is because they've copied apple.  Copying Apple doesn't mean it's not longer "Apple-defining Characteristics".  In my opinion it would be better stated Microsoft is attempting "Apple-defined characteristics". Steve Jobs is right that a vertical screen doesn't lend itself to touch and he's right.   At least not for extended periods of time.  But a screen that can be taken off it's computer and handled like a tablet is a different thing all together.  One that runs a full blown OS is a nice feature. I'm not buying one but it's an interesting idea.  Let's just see what happens.  

  • Reply 159 of 251
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post

    Light, thin, elegant.... no longer Apple-defining characteristics.



    Get your eyes checked.

  • Reply 160 of 251
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    auxio wrote: »
    Sure, if you're using MS Paint or similarly amateur tools for drawing and don't require/notice the features and performance an illustrator would.

    Try using an integrated GPU to drive a 4K (or similarly hi-res) display with professional graphics applications like Adobe Illustrator which have vector-based, pressure-sensitive, highly accurate pencil/marker/chalk/paintbrush style drawing and get low-latency using a stylus.  This is what professional artists demand from a tablet, and why it's interesting to see them so impressed with the iPad Pro.

    Are you saying that there is full Adobe Illustrator on iOS? I've heard of Adobe Illustrator Draw... which works on both iPhone and iPad... but it doesn't appear to be full Illustrator.

    Anyway, looking at Adobe Illustrator CC 2015 GPU features:

    GPU Performance enhancements for Illustrator CC 2015

    GPU performance enhancements let Illustrator pan, zoom, and scroll up to 10 times faster with 10 times higher zoom magnification (64,000%, up from 6,400%).

    It doesn't seem to be undoable on integrated graphics - after all, I'm pretty sure designers are using it on MBPs with integrated graphics and retina screens... but if you still do need GPU, you can use Surface Book in tablet mode with keyboard attached and get extra benefits from NVIDIA GPU.
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