Ths article hardly scratched the surface (ha!) regarding the specs of these two devices.
I will now deliver a different perspective from a diffrent set of eyes. I am desktop gamer. So windows has allways been my prefered OS of choice. For me the surface book is the perfect laptop. It is a killer laptop in its own right with desktop preformance. The aspect ratio will do tons for me when typing up reports. The stated battery life of 12 hrs of video playback (surface pro 4 has 9 hrs of video playback) is great. And that the top comes off and can be flipped around is great for when I need to be creative with the pen (which is included of course).
I think the long battery life is due to the fact that it has not only one but two batteries. One i the base of the unit and the other in the screen.
There are a lot of comments on the hinge. I think it's designed that way so that the interconnection between the nvidia discrete gpu in the base and the main cpu and the rest of the main ciruitry won't take damage when closing the lid.
Needless to say this will be my new laptop. I just need to get confirmed when it will become available in Sweden. Cheers everyone!
I'm stunned at how dead Roger's articles read, and how completely devoid of relevance to context in the tech world or to history he manages to write! Um, are you actually human, dear Roger?
MacBook -> Surface Book laptop
Perhaps iLumina will be next. In any case, MS comes across as a bunch of thugs attempting vaguely advanced cognitive processes.
And the New Yorker claims Microsoft is the old Apple while Apple is becoming the old Microsoft. Wow if Microsoft knew all they needed to do to get the tech press drooling was create a fugly looking laptop they would have done it years ago. Joanna Stern at the WSJ says Microsoft is finally admitting that laptops are best. Really? So why does the Surface Pro 4 exist? And why is their laptop this fugly contraption with a detachable screen that seems unnecessary (only 3 hours battery life?) rather than something as thin, light and sleek as the technology inside would allow?
I'm impressed too, I think Apple should try to address this in some fashion better than they have with the iPadPro which is at least 1 year late to the game in my opinion. But Light, thin, Elegant? The only reason they have these characteristics is because they've copied apple. Copying Apple doesn't mean it's not longer "Apple-defining Characteristics". In my opinion it would be better stated Microsoft is attempting "Apple-defined characteristics". Steve Jobs is right that a vertical screen doesn't lend itself to touch and he's right. At least not for extended periods of time. But a screen that can be taken off it's computer and handled like a tablet is a different thing all together. One that runs a full blown OS is a nice feature. I'm not buying one but it's an interesting idea. Let's just see what happens.
Obviously elegant is subjective (I think this contraption is fugly) but thin and light? It weights about the same as Apple's rMBP. Dell's XPS 13 (Windows fanboys previous favorite laptop) only weighs 2.8 pounds and certainly looks more svelt than ther Surfce Book. One has to wonder what Dell thinks about Microsoft getting into the laptop space. Seems to me there's no point in Dell making premium consumer laptops anymore. I'm sure Microsoft will market the heck out of this laptop.
Say what you will, it's a full blown operating system on an intel chip with a new operating system that crosses devices. I've loved my Macs but I can't ignore this kind of innovation. Let's just say, I'm selling my Apple stock.
There's competition and it makes everyone stay on their toes and produce better product. Microsoft did well here, keeps the Mac products under the gun for improvement for us.
There will be sales for Surface series. Same people that would buy a laptop PC now turning to Surface thinking they can get the best of both worlds.
Problem is that it's a zero sum game. Microsoft is not creating a new market like iPad initially, it is trying to copy a tablet characteristics to lure PC users.
Whatever the sales of Surface, it has little to do with iPad. It's not even a Surface versus iPad race...it is just Windows camp cannibalizing each other. ?
Somehow, we are all so blinded with anti-competitor hatred here that we're missing the point, apparently.
Because it doesn't seem that anyone has brought this up yet, here: There are now high quality devices from Microsoft in pretty much every price range...all offering a consistent fit, form and function. All running the same (pretty much) operating system. This is pretty much exactly what Apple has done with the MacBook products. The only difference is that MS has a consistent OS experience among them all.
Mark my words, gang...if Microsoft convinces the world that running an app consistently on your phone, your tablet, your computer, your gaming system, etc. is something they want, then Microsoft hit it out of the park on Tuesday. I'm not so sure they didn't do that already.
And, oh, yes...I'm confident that by saying these things makes me a "Microsoft shill", an "Apple hater", a "Love It All Lively", blah blah blah. Listen...there is nothing wrong with rewarding excellence. And Microsoft had an excellent presentation and should be held up as FINALLY realizing how to compete again.
One has to wonder what Dell thinks about Microsoft getting into the laptop space. Seems to me there's no point in Dell making premium consumer laptops anymore. I'm sure Microsoft will market the heck out of this laptop.
This is the part I can't understand, why is Microsoft changing its business model and competing with its partners (who actually sell their product much wider than Microsoft can do alone)? I'd bet we see a huge shift in these partners going forward where they defocus Windows and promote Linux (and Chrome OS?) more and more.
Microsoft's moves make no sense to me, they were always so good at channel management, it seems they've thrown that out completely and are intending to go a direct route - quite a gamble, and to be honest I'd say a bit unethical, but then again I never felt (having worked with and for them many years) Microsoft's success was built on much integrity.
Truly ironic if MS is trying to be more like Apple, also it makes me wonder if it's true the old adage, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."
Somehow, we are all so blinded with anti-competitor hatred here that we're missing the point, apparently.
Because it doesn't seem that anyone has brought this up yet, here: There are now high quality devices from Microsoft in pretty much every price range...all offering a consistent fit, form and function. All running the same (pretty much) operating system. This is pretty much exactly what Apple has done with the MacBook products. The only difference is that MS has a consistent OS experience among them all.
Mark my words, gang...if Microsoft convinces the world that running an app consistently on your phone, your tablet, your computer, your gaming system, etc. is something they want, then Microsoft hit it out of the park on Tuesday. I'm not so sure they didn't do that already.
And, oh, yes...I'm confident that by saying these things makes me a "Microsoft shill", an "Apple hater", a "Love It All Lively", blah blah blah. Listen...there is nothing wrong with rewarding excellence. And Microsoft had an excellent presentation and should be held up as FINALLY realizing how to compete again.
Trust me, I wish I could be blinded but I have to face 2 Windows Desktops and 1 Windows laptop everyday because that is what my work entails.
I am not a Apple fanatic nor am I a Windows hater. It's just a difference in computing philosophy. After 20 over years of tinkering with Windows, PC DIY and dealing with PC maintenance, I am sick of it. I just want things to work. I want things to be optimized for each form factor and I am not keen on compromising my experience.
Many times on this forum I have stated the same thing. Windows UI and Microsoft Office UI are not designed for small tablets and small screens. For the past 20 years when I was using Windows, I continually tried to get larger screen sizes for my Windows PC, from 15 inch monitor to now 24" Monitor. By trying to combine the old and the new tablet usage, Microsoft is not optimizing the experience for both. If Microsoft redesigns the Windows and Office UI (by this I don't mean just sticking some metro tiles) then I might re-consider my position.
Sure enough, there are people who are still in love with Windows (and need the PC) and people like you will love whatever Microsoft come up with.
But what did Microsoft do? Nothing, just detached the keyboard and people like you heap tonnes of praises on Microsoft.
There are many high quality PC and laptop PC design by other vendors such as Toshiba, IBM, Sony (used to) and "insert your own vendor here", what's so different about Microsoft's offering? Microsoft simply detached the keyboard.
I still stick by what I said in that Microsoft Surface lines will have sales but they are attracting the PC buyers anyway, people who would buy another PC from another vendor if Microsoft didn't launch the Surface series.
But what did Microsoft do? Nothing, just detached the keyboard and people like you heap tonnes of praises on Microsoft.
There are many high quality PC and laptop PC design by other vendors such as Toshiba, IBM, Sony (used to) and "insert your own vendor here", what's so different about Microsoft's offering? Microsoft simply detached the keyboard.
I still stick by what I said in that Microsoft Surface lines will have sales but they are attracting the PC buyers anyway, people who would buy another PC from another vendor if Microsoft didn't launch the Surface series.
And Microsoft wasn't the first PC maker to create a laptop with detachable screen. Convertible aka 2-in-1 laptops have existed for a while now. Every time I turn on the TV I see an Intel commercial for one of these things. I'm not convinced this is going to take share from Apple. If anything it's going to take share from premium offerings from the likes of Dell or Lenovo. PC makers that are strong in enterprise sales might fair OK but the rest are going to be stuck in a race to the bottom.
I still haven't seen anyone explain why the Surface Pro and Surface Book need to exist. It's almost as if Microsoft is keeping it around because they don't want to admit were wrong and the laptop form factor is best.
This is the part I can't understand, why is Microsoft changing its business model and competing with its partners (who actually sell their product much wider than Microsoft can do alone)? I'd bet we see a huge shift in these partners going forward where they defocus Windows and promote Linux (and Chrome OS?) more and more.
Microsoft's moves make no sense to me, they were always so good at channel management, it seems they've thrown that out completely and are intending to go a direct route - quite a gamble, and to be honest I'd say a bit unethical, but then again I never felt (having worked with and for them many years) Microsoft's success was built on much integrity.
Truly ironic if MS is trying to be more like Apple, also it makes me wonder if it's true the old adage, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."
The Microsoft fanboys would argue these are just reference designs to light the fire under OEMs to create better stuff. I don't buy that. You can create reference specs without designing and selling your own product. Look what Intel did with Ultrabooks. Also I think it's really unfair to put all the blame on OEMs. It's easy for Microsoft to make great hardware when they don't have to worry about selling in volume, being profitable or competing on cost. Microsoft is basically catering to diehards that have money to spend. We'll see how OEMs react now that Microsoft is competing with them in the laptop space. I would say we'll see more Chromebooks but then Google decided to make a premium tablet running Android so who knows how committed they are to Chrome OS?
The Verge says the iPad Pro is "far less powerful" than the Surface Pro 4. What are they basing that on? We really know nothing about the A9X chip.
They're basing it off the observations I posted earlier. They're talking about the performance of the i7 version while mentioning the starter price of $899 (which comes with a Core m3).
As if you can get a Surface Pro 4 for the same price as an iPad Pro that has the performance of a MBP.
I stand by my earlier post that the iPad Pro will outperform the m3 based Surface Pro.
Are you saying that there is full Adobe Illustrator on iOS? I've heard of Adobe Illustrator Draw... which works on both iPhone and iPad... but it doesn't appear to be full Illustrator.
There probably isn't (I'm not an illustrator), but I've heard of plenty of other apps and custom styluses which attempt to address the market for digital illustration where you need low-latency and rich pen styles to simulate working with physical tools as closely as possible.
Quote:
Anyway, looking at Adobe Illustrator CC 2015 GPU features:
GPU Performance enhancements for Illustrator CC 2015
GPU performance enhancements let Illustrator pan, zoom, and scroll up to 10 times faster with 10 times higher zoom magnification (64,000%, up from 6,400%).
All that tells you is that they've added GPU optimizations to their product. Meaning, they'll take advantage of whatever GPU you have, but the performance will only be as good as any given GPU. Speaking from personal experience, the performance of GPUs varies wildly. While integrated GPUs are getting better, they're still no match for discrete GPUs -- especially when you get into high resolution displays.
Quote:
It doesn't seem to be undoable on integrated graphics - after all, I'm pretty sure designers are using it on MBPs with integrated graphics and retina screens... but if you still do need GPU, you can use Surface Book in tablet mode with keyboard attached and get extra benefits from NVIDIA GPU.
Sure. However, I know a number of illustrators, and they tend to carry sketchbooks around with them everywhere so that they can get ideas down on paper wherever and whenever they happen to get inspired. For a tablet to be able to replace that sketchbook, it needs to be as light and easy to carry/handle as possible. As well as be highly performant in any situation to capture all of the intricate details of those sketches (and not get in the way with lag). This is where I don't believe the Surface Book, when using the integrated GPU, will be good enough. Especially given that most Windows apps aren't being optimized for tablet use due to the market for such apps being so small.
You do realize that Word and Visual Studio are HiDPI aware right? Second, the screen is not running natively at the full resolution. It's going to be using a scaling factor that's comfortable enough even on the Surface Pro 3. I am using Windows 10 on a 4K display, and Word is beautiful. Now, there're software that are not HiDPI aware, but most of MS stuffs are good. You should have used another software as an example instead.
Too bad that, out of the box, Windows DPI scaling is set to 100% and you need to go into the settings to increase it. This means that 99% of users won't have it turned on and be left wondering why everything on their screen is so tiny. Speaking from experience in customer support.
I'm impressed. Apple is losing its edge to these competitors. Light, thin, elegant.... no longer Apple-defining characteristics.
ROFLOL
So Apple's only advantage has been hardware features? Give it a rest. There have been MANY attempts to produce thin, light and elegant laptops. Yet Apple still dominates because of providing a superior user experience.
Comments
I will now deliver a different perspective from a diffrent set of eyes. I am desktop gamer. So windows has allways been my prefered OS of choice. For me the surface book is the perfect laptop. It is a killer laptop in its own right with desktop preformance. The aspect ratio will do tons for me when typing up reports. The stated battery life of 12 hrs of video playback (surface pro 4 has 9 hrs of video playback) is great. And that the top comes off and can be flipped around is great for when I need to be creative with the pen (which is included of course).
I think the long battery life is due to the fact that it has not only one but two batteries. One i the base of the unit and the other in the screen.
There are a lot of comments on the hinge. I think it's designed that way so that the interconnection between the nvidia discrete gpu in the base and the main cpu and the rest of the main ciruitry won't take damage when closing the lid.
Needless to say this will be my new laptop. I just need to get confirmed when it will become available in Sweden. Cheers everyone!
OSX -> Windows 10
MacBook -> Surface Book laptop
Perhaps iLumina will be next. In any case, MS comes across as a bunch of thugs attempting vaguely advanced cognitive processes.
How funny that a Microsoft fanboy thinks it's ugly and Macworld thanks it's amazing.
Edit: hmm...when I clicked your link it took me to IDG TV so it seems like it's a video link from Macworld's parent company.
And the New Yorker claims Microsoft is the old Apple while Apple is becoming the old Microsoft. Wow if Microsoft knew all they needed to do to get the tech press drooling was create a fugly looking laptop they would have done it years ago. Joanna Stern at the WSJ says Microsoft is finally admitting that laptops are best. Really? So why does the Surface Pro 4 exist? And why is their laptop this fugly contraption with a detachable screen that seems unnecessary (only 3 hours battery life?) rather than something as thin, light and sleek as the technology inside would allow?
Obviously elegant is subjective (I think this contraption is fugly) but thin and light? It weights about the same as Apple's rMBP. Dell's XPS 13 (Windows fanboys previous favorite laptop) only weighs 2.8 pounds and certainly looks more svelt than ther Surfce Book. One has to wonder what Dell thinks about Microsoft getting into the laptop space. Seems to me there's no point in Dell making premium consumer laptops anymore. I'm sure Microsoft will market the heck out of this laptop.
Say what you will, it's a full blown operating system on an intel chip with a new operating system that crosses devices. I've loved my Macs but I can't ignore this kind of innovation. Let's just say, I'm selling my Apple stock.
$3 billion in Surface sales is insignificant?
There's competition and it makes everyone stay on their toes and produce better product. Microsoft did well here, keeps the Mac products under the gun for improvement for us.
There will be sales for Surface series. Same people that would buy a laptop PC now turning to Surface thinking they can get the best of both worlds.
Problem is that it's a zero sum game. Microsoft is not creating a new market like iPad initially, it is trying to copy a tablet characteristics to lure PC users.
Whatever the sales of Surface, it has little to do with iPad. It's not even a Surface versus iPad race...it is just Windows camp cannibalizing each other. ?
Somehow, we are all so blinded with anti-competitor hatred here that we're missing the point, apparently.
Because it doesn't seem that anyone has brought this up yet, here: There are now high quality devices from Microsoft in pretty much every price range...all offering a consistent fit, form and function. All running the same (pretty much) operating system. This is pretty much exactly what Apple has done with the MacBook products. The only difference is that MS has a consistent OS experience among them all.
Mark my words, gang...if Microsoft convinces the world that running an app consistently on your phone, your tablet, your computer, your gaming system, etc. is something they want, then Microsoft hit it out of the park on Tuesday. I'm not so sure they didn't do that already.
And, oh, yes...I'm confident that by saying these things makes me a "Microsoft shill", an "Apple hater", a "Love It All Lively", blah blah blah. Listen...there is nothing wrong with rewarding excellence. And Microsoft had an excellent presentation and should be held up as FINALLY realizing how to compete again.
One has to wonder what Dell thinks about Microsoft getting into the laptop space. Seems to me there's no point in Dell making premium consumer laptops anymore. I'm sure Microsoft will market the heck out of this laptop.
This is the part I can't understand, why is Microsoft changing its business model and competing with its partners (who actually sell their product much wider than Microsoft can do alone)? I'd bet we see a huge shift in these partners going forward where they defocus Windows and promote Linux (and Chrome OS?) more and more.
Microsoft's moves make no sense to me, they were always so good at channel management, it seems they've thrown that out completely and are intending to go a direct route - quite a gamble, and to be honest I'd say a bit unethical, but then again I never felt (having worked with and for them many years) Microsoft's success was built on much integrity.
Truly ironic if MS is trying to be more like Apple, also it makes me wonder if it's true the old adage, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."
Somehow, we are all so blinded with anti-competitor hatred here that we're missing the point, apparently.
Because it doesn't seem that anyone has brought this up yet, here: There are now high quality devices from Microsoft in pretty much every price range...all offering a consistent fit, form and function. All running the same (pretty much) operating system. This is pretty much exactly what Apple has done with the MacBook products. The only difference is that MS has a consistent OS experience among them all.
Mark my words, gang...if Microsoft convinces the world that running an app consistently on your phone, your tablet, your computer, your gaming system, etc. is something they want, then Microsoft hit it out of the park on Tuesday. I'm not so sure they didn't do that already.
And, oh, yes...I'm confident that by saying these things makes me a "Microsoft shill", an "Apple hater", a "Love It All Lively", blah blah blah. Listen...there is nothing wrong with rewarding excellence. And Microsoft had an excellent presentation and should be held up as FINALLY realizing how to compete again.
Trust me, I wish I could be blinded but I have to face 2 Windows Desktops and 1 Windows laptop everyday because that is what my work entails.
I am not a Apple fanatic nor am I a Windows hater. It's just a difference in computing philosophy. After 20 over years of tinkering with Windows, PC DIY and dealing with PC maintenance, I am sick of it. I just want things to work. I want things to be optimized for each form factor and I am not keen on compromising my experience.
Many times on this forum I have stated the same thing. Windows UI and Microsoft Office UI are not designed for small tablets and small screens. For the past 20 years when I was using Windows, I continually tried to get larger screen sizes for my Windows PC, from 15 inch monitor to now 24" Monitor. By trying to combine the old and the new tablet usage, Microsoft is not optimizing the experience for both. If Microsoft redesigns the Windows and Office UI (by this I don't mean just sticking some metro tiles) then I might re-consider my position.
Sure enough, there are people who are still in love with Windows (and need the PC) and people like you will love whatever Microsoft come up with.
But what did Microsoft do? Nothing, just detached the keyboard and people like you heap tonnes of praises on Microsoft.
There are many high quality PC and laptop PC design by other vendors such as Toshiba, IBM, Sony (used to) and "insert your own vendor here", what's so different about Microsoft's offering? Microsoft simply detached the keyboard.
I still stick by what I said in that Microsoft Surface lines will have sales but they are attracting the PC buyers anyway, people who would buy another PC from another vendor if Microsoft didn't launch the Surface series.
Looks like a person could get a nasty cut handling that thing.
And Microsoft wasn't the first PC maker to create a laptop with detachable screen. Convertible aka 2-in-1 laptops have existed for a while now. Every time I turn on the TV I see an Intel commercial for one of these things. I'm not convinced this is going to take share from Apple. If anything it's going to take share from premium offerings from the likes of Dell or Lenovo. PC makers that are strong in enterprise sales might fair OK but the rest are going to be stuck in a race to the bottom.
I still haven't seen anyone explain why the Surface Pro and Surface Book need to exist. It's almost as if Microsoft is keeping it around because they don't want to admit were wrong and the laptop form factor is best.
The Microsoft fanboys would argue these are just reference designs to light the fire under OEMs to create better stuff. I don't buy that. You can create reference specs without designing and selling your own product. Look what Intel did with Ultrabooks. Also I think it's really unfair to put all the blame on OEMs. It's easy for Microsoft to make great hardware when they don't have to worry about selling in volume, being profitable or competing on cost. Microsoft is basically catering to diehards that have money to spend. We'll see how OEMs react now that Microsoft is competing with them in the laptop space. I would say we'll see more Chromebooks but then Google decided to make a premium tablet running Android so who knows how committed they are to Chrome OS?
They're basing it off the observations I posted earlier. They're talking about the performance of the i7 version while mentioning the starter price of $899 (which comes with a Core m3).
As if you can get a Surface Pro 4 for the same price as an iPad Pro that has the performance of a MBP.
I stand by my earlier post that the iPad Pro will outperform the m3 based Surface Pro.
Are you saying that there is full Adobe Illustrator on iOS? I've heard of Adobe Illustrator Draw... which works on both iPhone and iPad... but it doesn't appear to be full Illustrator.
There probably isn't (I'm not an illustrator), but I've heard of plenty of other apps and custom styluses which attempt to address the market for digital illustration where you need low-latency and rich pen styles to simulate working with physical tools as closely as possible.
GPU Performance enhancements for Illustrator CC 2015
GPU performance enhancements let Illustrator pan, zoom, and scroll up to 10 times faster with 10 times higher zoom magnification (64,000%, up from 6,400%).
All that tells you is that they've added GPU optimizations to their product. Meaning, they'll take advantage of whatever GPU you have, but the performance will only be as good as any given GPU. Speaking from personal experience, the performance of GPUs varies wildly. While integrated GPUs are getting better, they're still no match for discrete GPUs -- especially when you get into high resolution displays.
Sure. However, I know a number of illustrators, and they tend to carry sketchbooks around with them everywhere so that they can get ideas down on paper wherever and whenever they happen to get inspired. For a tablet to be able to replace that sketchbook, it needs to be as light and easy to carry/handle as possible. As well as be highly performant in any situation to capture all of the intricate details of those sketches (and not get in the way with lag). This is where I don't believe the Surface Book, when using the integrated GPU, will be good enough. Especially given that most Windows apps aren't being optimized for tablet use due to the market for such apps being so small.
Microsoft is a big sponsor of The Verge. They troll Apple all the time with extremely biased "reporting".
You do realize that Word and Visual Studio are HiDPI aware right? Second, the screen is not running natively at the full resolution. It's going to be using a scaling factor that's comfortable enough even on the Surface Pro 3. I am using Windows 10 on a 4K display, and Word is beautiful. Now, there're software that are not HiDPI aware, but most of MS stuffs are good. You should have used another software as an example instead.
Too bad that, out of the box, Windows DPI scaling is set to 100% and you need to go into the settings to increase it. This means that 99% of users won't have it turned on and be left wondering why everything on their screen is so tiny. Speaking from experience in customer support.
ROFLOL
So Apple's only advantage has been hardware features? Give it a rest. There have been MANY attempts to produce thin, light and elegant laptops. Yet Apple still dominates because of providing a superior user experience.