"As moral, religious and law-abiding citizens, we feel that we are unprejudiced and undiscriminating in our wish to keep our community a closed community." A Not-Racist quoted from Sweet Land of Liberty, a history of segregation in America's north.
People can pretend they're good or Not-Racist, but when evidence stares you right in the face...
These boys were not loud, did not engage in any activity that caused alarm and were polite in the face of rude, bigoted actions by Apple staff and management. Blowhard pronouncements of racism being unfairly charged just makes it worse.
This isn't the first time for Apple. I recall managers at the Upper West Side Apple store made racially tinged comments to a couple of young African American men who barely entered the store. One manager spouted some nonsense of being god and some other BS. My Congresswoman Grace Meng asked NYS Attorney General (now NY Governor) Andrew Cuomo to investigate claims that Asian customers were asked to prove American citizenship in order to buy iPads when they first came out. And I remember a San Diego Apple manager had an Asian American woman arrested -- she was tasered before arrest -- after she refused to leave the store because he claimed she already bought a couple of iPhones and accused her of hoarding them for gray market sales. Each time the fanboys came out in droves to defend Apple's indefensible behavior.
Now you have transitioned seamlessly to stating your preconceptions about me? That doesn't help your argument either - just speaks to a pattern of weakness in your thinking. Just as a reminder on what I posted previously, I think that this was quite possibly racial profiling, but I detest the lazy thinking that leads to the kinds of posts littering this thread asserting that racism is the only possible explanation.
I always try to see the bright side of things, and often give people the benefit of doubt. Obviously it's not blatant racism, but there's very little there to suggest it's not in any way racism.
And I remember a San Diego Apple manager had an Asian American woman arrested -- she was tasered before arrest -- after she refused to leave the store because he claimed she already bought a couple of iPhones and accused her of hoarding them for gray market sales. Each time the fanboys came out in droves to defend Apple's indefensible behavior.
Scalpers should be tased, I don't have any problems with tasing scalpers.
I witnessed the whole thing first hand when I was standing in line at two different Apple stores a few years ago, when trying to get an iPad 2. I never ended up getting any iPad on that day from any Apple store, thanks in large part to the scumbag scalpers. I even wrote Steve Jobs an email about it at the time, because I was extremely pissed, to put it mildly.
Why shouldn't scalpers be ejected from Apple stores? It sounds like that manager did a good job.
Oh good, more middle aged white people injecting racism into situations where there was none to start with.
If a group of kids are messing about in a store and acting dodgy, I don't care what colour they are, they should be ejected from the store.
Are you saying that, because they are black, they should receive special privileges that non blacks don't?
Funny but they didn’t act dodgy when they were being kicked out of the store, so what makes you think they were acting that way previously?
So what was a factor in getting those young men ejected from the store? What about them made the staff fear they were there to steal?
It's never said in the video and no one has been quoted giving those reasons. That is why any supposed reason is pure speculation. Asserting that it's racism (or anything else for that matter) is nothing but reading biases into this case.
And it's never going to be said. No store manager in his/her right mind would tell them that it's because they're black. The manager says that the staff was worried about their 'presence' in the store. Please point out to me what is it about their presence that's so worrisome.
The manager says that the staff was worried about their 'presence' in the store. Please point out to me what is it about their presence that's so worrisome.
We don't know. That is my point. Since we do not know, it is irresponsible to claim to know, especially if that claim is used to create conflict and hard feelings.
The manager says that the staff was worried about their 'presence' in the store. Please point out to me what is it about their presence that's so worrisome.
We don't know. That is my point. Since we do not know, it is irresponsible to claim to know, especially if that claim is used to create conflict and hard feelings.
We don't know, but they did know why, and refused to say it. In many cases what's not said is louder, and clearer than what is said, and in my opinion this is one of those cases. Last I checked I'm entitled to my opinion, just like you have a right to yours.
Any store owner has the right to ask someone to leave.
Just so happens it was a black kid.
The headline is misleading (what a shock). The kid was profiled as a potential thief. Not profiled as a black kid. It could be the backpack or the way he held items, who knows.
I strongly disagree. It wasn't "a" black kid. It was a group of black kids. And why was the store manager worried they would steal something? Or was that just a b.s. statement on the part of the clerk? What evidence did they have to go on? Only that they were black. And while only two were visible in the video, they seemed very good natured even when confronted and were well dressed in what must have been their school 'uniforms'. I can tell you that I would not have been as nice if some clerk ever said to me that they were worried I would steal something, no matter what age I was. From the brief video, they did not appear to be 'gangstas'. If the backpack was the problem, they could have been asked to check them or told they would have to be searched upon leaving the store.
They deserved the apology. And the clerks in that store need to be re-trained.
Store owners (in the U.S.) do NOT have the right to ask someone to leave, if their request is solely based on race, national origin, age or sexual orientation (with the exception of age requirements for bars, R-rated movies, etc., dressing rooms based upon gender and minimal dress requirements, like wearing a shirt or shoes). Discrimination is not legal in places of public accommodation even if they are privately owned. Even though stores post signs that they can refuse service to anyone, they actually can't legally. If they could, we'd still have segregation in at least 10 states.
What evidence did they have to go on? Only that they were black.
That is an assumption on your part, and false to boot. Behavior (furtive looks, checking out security systems too closely, blocking security views) can be a legitimate reason, as can things like attributes of past thefts can also be legitimate evidence to go on. We do not know what that evidence is. Period. To assert otherwise is demonstrating your own bigotry.
But yet you're ready to play judge, jury, and execution based on your admitted ignorance?!?
No - based on opinion. Uninformed opinion. OK - well uneducated guess. Prejudiced, uneducated guess.
Play blind if you want but my eyes are wide open to the social injustices of the world.
And I applaud that, but you have taken it to the point of substituting your imagination when you have insufficient facts. That ends up doing a disservice to the fight against racism because it dilutes the issue.
Play blind if you want but my eyes are wide open to the social injustices of the world.
Blind?!? Let's talk about blind.
Trayvon Martin: Claims of being shot "'cause racism". Turns out he was beating George Zimmerman's head against the concrete.
Mike Brown: Claims be being shot "'cause racism". Turns out he tried to grab the officer's gun and was actively charging him when shot.
Black churches burned "'cause racism". Turns out white churches were also burned and the perp was black.
Mizzou president and chancellor forced out "'cause racism". Turns out that every single claimed racist incident (all three of them) was actively investigated by the police and/or the school administration lead by Tom Wolfe and the perps (if identified) were dealt with. In addition, Tom Wolfe did institute "diversity training" and other measures as a result of those incidents. But that wasn't enough for those who are sensitive "to the social injustices". Not to mention the fact that the student government is 100% black in a student body where 8% are black. And the president of that student government is the one who ginned up these incidents and went on a hunger strike over it. He also comes from a family where the father earns roughly $1 million every year.
And that's just a quick sample.
Yes, there is "social injustice" going on. It's the use of social groups to inflict harm on others (or escape consequences of inflicting harm) through the use of hoaxes and racist claims. It's perpetrating injustice in the name of "social justice". I'm not buying that fake victimhood as a method of exerting power because I am not blind to it, and neither should you.
Play blind if you want but my eyes are wide open to the social injustices of the world.
Blind?!? Let's talk about blind.
Trayvon Martin: Claims of being shot "'cause racism". Turns out he was beating George Zimmerman's head against the concrete.
Mike Brown: Claims be being shot "'cause racism". Turns out he tried to grab the officer's gun and was actively charging him when shot.
Black churches burned "'cause racism". Turns out white churches were also burned and the perp was black.
Mizzou president and chancellor forced out "'cause racism". Turns out that every single claimed racist incident (all three of them) was actively investigated by the police and/or the school administration lead by Tom Wolfe and the perps (if identified) were dealt with. In addition, Tom Wolfe did institute "diversity training" and other measures as a result of those incidents. But that wasn't enough for those who are sensitive "to the social injustices". Not to mention the fact that the student government is 100% black in a student body where 8% are black. And the president of that student government is the one who ginned up these incidents and went on a hunger strike over it. He also comes from a family where the father earns roughly $1 million every year.
And that's just a quick sample.
Yes, there is "social injustice" going on. It's the use of social groups to inflict harm on others (or escape consequences of inflicting harm) through the use of hoaxes and racist claims. It's perpetrating [SIZE=18px]injustice[/SIZE] in the name of "social justice". I'm not buying that fake victimhood as a method of exerting power because I am not blind to it, and neither should you.
Martin, and Brown were unable to claim anything because they were killed, but each of them played a big part in why they died.
I don't buy into every situation in which racism is claimed. There's usually blame to go around but in this instance I just don't see it no matter how hard I try.
I honestly don't think I would've maintained my composure if I were told that my presence was worrisome, and it was thought I might steal something like these young men did. Their behavior, and demeanor speaks volumes about their education, and respect for authority.
People are racists for different reasons, and in different ways. There's racists that simply hate other races, and act very aggressively towards them. Others have irrational fears because they've been taught wrong, and haven't had much positive exposure to people of another race. I believe these Apple employees are of the latter group, and simply need some sensitivity training, and definitely some black friends.
Others have irrational fears because they've been taught wrong, and haven't had much positive exposure to people of another race. I believe these Apple employees are of the latter group, and simply need some sensitivity training, and definitely some black friends.
Again, another assumption made without any evidence. In fact, given Apple's record on training, it is far more likely that you are flat wrong about this and that they have received "sensitivity training" as part of their training on how to do their job.
Others have irrational fears because they've been taught wrong, and haven't had much positive exposure to people of another race. I believe these Apple employees are of the latter group, and simply need some sensitivity training, and definitely some black friends.
Again, another assumption made without any evidence. In fact, given Apple's record on training, it is far more likely that you are flat wrong about this and that they have received "sensitivity training" as part of their training on how to do their job.
Getting trained, and putting that training to work are 2 very different things. A 5 hour class isn't going to change deep seeded feelings.
Comments
People can pretend they're good or Not-Racist, but when evidence stares you right in the face...
These boys were not loud, did not engage in any activity that caused alarm and were polite in the face of rude, bigoted actions by Apple staff and management. Blowhard pronouncements of racism being unfairly charged just makes it worse.
This isn't the first time for Apple. I recall managers at the Upper West Side Apple store made racially tinged comments to a couple of young African American men who barely entered the store. One manager spouted some nonsense of being god and some other BS. My Congresswoman Grace Meng asked NYS Attorney General (now NY Governor) Andrew Cuomo to investigate claims that Asian customers were asked to prove American citizenship in order to buy iPads when they first came out. And I remember a San Diego Apple manager had an Asian American woman arrested -- she was tasered before arrest -- after she refused to leave the store because he claimed she already bought a couple of iPhones and accused her of hoarding them for gray market sales. Each time the fanboys came out in droves to defend Apple's indefensible behavior.
I always try to see the bright side of things, and often give people the benefit of doubt. Obviously it's not blatant racism, but there's very little there to suggest it's not in any way racism.
And I remember a San Diego Apple manager had an Asian American woman arrested -- she was tasered before arrest -- after she refused to leave the store because he claimed she already bought a couple of iPhones and accused her of hoarding them for gray market sales. Each time the fanboys came out in droves to defend Apple's indefensible behavior.
Scalpers should be tased, I don't have any problems with tasing scalpers.
I witnessed the whole thing first hand when I was standing in line at two different Apple stores a few years ago, when trying to get an iPad 2. I never ended up getting any iPad on that day from any Apple store, thanks in large part to the scumbag scalpers. I even wrote Steve Jobs an email about it at the time, because I was extremely pissed, to put it mildly.
Why shouldn't scalpers be ejected from Apple stores? It sounds like that manager did a good job.
Oh good, more middle aged white people injecting racism into situations where there was none to start with.
If a group of kids are messing about in a store and acting dodgy, I don't care what colour they are, they should be ejected from the store.
Are you saying that, because they are black, they should receive special privileges that non blacks don't?
Funny but they didn’t act dodgy when they were being kicked out of the store, so what makes you think they were acting that way previously?
And it's never going to be said. No store manager in his/her right mind would tell them that it's because they're black. The manager says that the staff was worried about their 'presence' in the store. Please point out to me what is it about their presence that's so worrisome.
The manager says that the staff was worried about their 'presence' in the store. Please point out to me what is it about their presence that's so worrisome.
We don't know. That is my point. Since we do not know, it is irresponsible to claim to know, especially if that claim is used to create conflict and hard feelings.
We don't know, but they did know why, and refused to say it. In many cases what's not said is louder, and clearer than what is said, and in my opinion this is one of those cases. Last I checked I'm entitled to my opinion, just like you have a right to yours.
Any store owner has the right to ask someone to leave.
Just so happens it was a black kid.
The headline is misleading (what a shock). The kid was profiled as a potential thief. Not profiled as a black kid. It could be the backpack or the way he held items, who knows.
I strongly disagree. It wasn't "a" black kid. It was a group of black kids. And why was the store manager worried they would steal something? Or was that just a b.s. statement on the part of the clerk? What evidence did they have to go on? Only that they were black. And while only two were visible in the video, they seemed very good natured even when confronted and were well dressed in what must have been their school 'uniforms'. I can tell you that I would not have been as nice if some clerk ever said to me that they were worried I would steal something, no matter what age I was. From the brief video, they did not appear to be 'gangstas'. If the backpack was the problem, they could have been asked to check them or told they would have to be searched upon leaving the store.
They deserved the apology. And the clerks in that store need to be re-trained.
Store owners (in the U.S.) do NOT have the right to ask someone to leave, if their request is solely based on race, national origin, age or sexual orientation (with the exception of age requirements for bars, R-rated movies, etc., dressing rooms based upon gender and minimal dress requirements, like wearing a shirt or shoes). Discrimination is not legal in places of public accommodation even if they are privately owned. Even though stores post signs that they can refuse service to anyone, they actually can't legally. If they could, we'd still have segregation in at least 10 states.
What evidence did they have to go on? Only that they were black.
That is an assumption on your part, and false to boot. Behavior (furtive looks, checking out security systems too closely, blocking security views) can be a legitimate reason, as can things like attributes of past thefts can also be legitimate evidence to go on. We do not know what that evidence is. Period. To assert otherwise is demonstrating your own bigotry.
We don't know,
But yet you're ready to play judge, jury, and execution based on your admitted ignorance?!?
We don't know,
But yet you're ready to play judge, jury, and execution based on your admitted ignorance?!?
No - based on opinion. Uninformed opinion. OK - well uneducated guess. Prejudiced, uneducated guess.
Play blind if you want but my eyes are wide open to the social injustices of the world.
We don't know,
But yet you're ready to play judge, jury, and execution based on your admitted ignorance?!?
No - based on opinion. Uninformed opinion. OK - well uneducated guess. Prejudiced, uneducated guess.
Play blind if you want but my eyes are wide open to the social injustices of the world.
And I applaud that, but you have taken it to the point of substituting your imagination when you have insufficient facts. That ends up doing a disservice to the fight against racism because it dilutes the issue.
Play blind if you want but my eyes are wide open to the social injustices of the world.
Blind?!? Let's talk about blind.
Trayvon Martin: Claims of being shot "'cause racism". Turns out he was beating George Zimmerman's head against the concrete.
Mike Brown: Claims be being shot "'cause racism". Turns out he tried to grab the officer's gun and was actively charging him when shot.
Black churches burned "'cause racism". Turns out white churches were also burned and the perp was black.
Mizzou president and chancellor forced out "'cause racism". Turns out that every single claimed racist incident (all three of them) was actively investigated by the police and/or the school administration lead by Tom Wolfe and the perps (if identified) were dealt with. In addition, Tom Wolfe did institute "diversity training" and other measures as a result of those incidents. But that wasn't enough for those who are sensitive "to the social injustices". Not to mention the fact that the student government is 100% black in a student body where 8% are black. And the president of that student government is the one who ginned up these incidents and went on a hunger strike over it. He also comes from a family where the father earns roughly $1 million every year.
And that's just a quick sample.
Yes, there is "social injustice" going on. It's the use of social groups to inflict harm on others (or escape consequences of inflicting harm) through the use of hoaxes and racist claims. It's perpetrating injustice in the name of "social justice". I'm not buying that fake victimhood as a method of exerting power because I am not blind to it, and neither should you.
Martin, and Brown were unable to claim anything because they were killed, but each of them played a big part in why they died.
I don't buy into every situation in which racism is claimed. There's usually blame to go around but in this instance I just don't see it no matter how hard I try.
I honestly don't think I would've maintained my composure if I were told that my presence was worrisome, and it was thought I might steal something like these young men did. Their behavior, and demeanor speaks volumes about their education, and respect for authority.
People are racists for different reasons, and in different ways. There's racists that simply hate other races, and act very aggressively towards them. Others have irrational fears because they've been taught wrong, and haven't had much positive exposure to people of another race. I believe these Apple employees are of the latter group, and simply need some sensitivity training, and definitely some black friends.
Others have irrational fears because they've been taught wrong, and haven't had much positive exposure to people of another race. I believe these Apple employees are of the latter group, and simply need some sensitivity training, and definitely some black friends.
Again, another assumption made without any evidence. In fact, given Apple's record on training, it is far more likely that you are flat wrong about this and that they have received "sensitivity training" as part of their training on how to do their job.
Getting trained, and putting that training to work are 2 very different things. A 5 hour class isn't going to change deep seeded feelings.
A group of teens with backpacks always catches my eye.
And rightly so, but keeping an eye on them, and kicking them out are 2 different things.