What will Trump industries have to do to comply? Nothing they sell is made here. Even their buildings use chinese steel, whats his plan on converting his own companies to dominic production?
I'm not speaking as a Trump supporter… he's not my guy… but I can't stand media mischaracterizations, and this is just one of a litany of such…
There was no "mandate", nor did he say anything about "forcing" Apple to do anything. Specific words spoken, in the context of Making America Great Again, were "I think we're going to get things coming. We're going to get Apple to start building their damn computers and things in this country instead of in other countries."
This reads as if to say "we are going to make Apple WANT to start building their damn computers in this country again"… again, you make America great, manufacturing comes back here. It is irresponsible to use the word "mandate" or to assume that he was talking about doing anything by force.
I'm not speaking as a Trump supporter… he's not my guy… but I can't stand media mischaracterizations, and this is just one of a litany of such…
There was no "mandate", nor did he say anything about "forcing" Apple to do anything. Specific words spoken, in the context of Making America Great Again, were "I think we're going to get things coming. We're going to get Apple to start building their damn computers and things in this country instead of in other countries."
This reads as if to say "we are going to make Apple WANT to start building their damn computers in this country again"… again, you make America great, manufacturing comes back here. It is irresponsible to use the word "mandate" or to assume that he was talking about doing anything by force.
Do you hear that knocking at your back door it’s the Swat team I hope you are as big loud mouth and ass to them as you are here…
if this dumbass sog is posting online that someone should kill the president then he'd better be ready for a visit from the Secret Service. they take that shit seriously.
take note, AI. you harbor this blatant troll at your own risk and reputation.
I admire Steve Jobs' candor in telling President Obama that the type of jobs related to making most iProduct thingies are never coming back to the USA. He wasn't blowing smoke, he was telling it like it is with brutal honesty. It's not even the labor rates, it's supply chain proximity, production scalability and elasticity, time to market, skills mix, and of course automation just to name a few non labor factors. The saving grace for the US, Germany, and other western countries today is the fact that the majority of automation machinery and system suppliers are still in high wage / high standard of living countries so they capture the high margin influence of automation. This could change. Manufacturing industry initiatives such as the Industrial Internet of Things (IIot) and Industrie 4.0 are primarily geared towards keeping the high margin parts of the automation machinery design and manufacturing processes in the high wage / high standard of living countries while recognizing that lower cost suppliers will continue to drive machinery and component costs down.
Another factor in manufacturing that's weak and nearly missing in the US but more healthy in countries like Germany is the education and training programs in place for high-skill and hard-skill workers that don't have college degrees. The US has no shortage at all of highly credentialed and degreed graduates who basically have little or no hard skills that can be directly applied to job requirements in modern manufacturing. Just how many art history, communications, political science, and Celtic history graduates does a maker of packaging machines, robotics, or CNC milling machines need? About the only dedicated, large scale high-skills and hard-skills training programs in the US are the military enlisted training programs.
The impact of seeking low cost labor for low skills jobs has been going on for the past half century so it's not like the manufacturing companies suddenly got a whiff of cheap Chinese labor and packed up all of their factories on boats and shipped them to China just in the past 5 years. That's been going on for decades. All those jobs are 20-30 years removed from ever coming back to the US. Heck, those jobs aren't even in China anymore, they've moved to Viet Nam, Philippines, and Bangladesh. The more recent trend however is that in some places where the manufacturing migration passed through, and most evident starting in Japan, is that they actually invested in modern manufacturing and skills attainment that matches the requirements of the tasks at hand in the modern global economy. The key behavior here is investment. Other companies invested in building out a full-stack modern manufacturing capability and the US did not. The US just wants to skim the highest margins from the top of the food chain and not get its hands dirty in low level details. No investment = no payback.
The current state of manufacturing in the US is an equal opportunity problem with plenty of blame to go around. You can't simply pin it on politicians or businessmen. The will of the people is as big a factor as anything. Behaviors almost always follow rewards. We got what we have because this is what we wanted and voted for. We lost our sense of purpose and replaced it with endless blaming and finger pointing. A nation of participants got replaced by a nation of spectators. When's the last time you heard of a German, Singaporean, or Japanese college athletic coach earning two or three orders of magnitude higher salary than a tenured science or engineering professor at the same university? I guess this tells you what really matters to Americans.
i live in Louisiana and the salary LSU pays to the football coach is disgusting. they say "oh but the department pays for it w/ TV revenues", but thats assuming (for odd some reason) that the program's income shouldn't go back into the general university budget. meanwhile, the library is a disgrace and they have to beg for corporate donations to build a new one. priorities?
Of the population, there are 24% under the age of 18 and 13.4% over the age of 65, both groups that have not, in the modern age, been considered working age.
That leaves just over 62% of the population as a working age group, but does not factor in those unable to work (due to health reasons - mental or physical) or those that choose not to work (such as stay at home parents). There is no way the number is 30% or greater as Trump had been promoting, because to get to those numbers you really have to pull numbers from groups that you shouldn't.
As if you can simply say that there are 73 million people who are unemployed, without also noting that 61 million are under 15 years old and the other 12 million are between 15 and 17 years old.
I admire Steve Jobs' candor in telling President Obama that the type of jobs related to making most iProduct thingies are never coming back to the USA. He wasn't blowing smoke, he was telling it like it is with brutal honesty. It's not even the labor rates, it's supply chain proximity, production scalability and elasticity, time to market, skills mix, and of course automation just to name a few non labor factors. The saving grace for the US, Germany, and other western countries today is the fact that the majority of automation machinery and system suppliers are still in high wage / high standard of living countries so they capture the high margin influence of automation. This could change. Manufacturing industry initiatives such as the Industrial Internet of Things (IIot) and Industrie 4.0 are primarily geared towards keeping the high margin parts of the automation machinery design and manufacturing processes in the high wage / high standard of living countries while recognizing that lower cost suppliers will continue to drive machinery and component costs down.
Another factor in manufacturing that's weak and nearly missing in the US but more healthy in countries like Germany is the education and training programs in place for high-skill and hard-skill workers that don't have college degrees. The US has no shortage at all of highly credentialed and degreed graduates who basically have little or no hard skills that can be directly applied to job requirements in modern manufacturing. Just how many art history, communications, political science, and Celtic history graduates does a maker of packaging machines, robotics, or CNC milling machines need? About the only dedicated, large scale high-skills and hard-skills training programs in the US are the military enlisted training programs.
The impact of seeking low cost labor for low skills jobs has been going on for the past half century so it's not like the manufacturing companies suddenly got a whiff of cheap Chinese labor and packed up all of their factories on boats and shipped them to China just in the past 5 years. That's been going on for decades. All those jobs are 20-30 years removed from ever coming back to the US. Heck, those jobs aren't even in China anymore, they've moved to Viet Nam, Philippines, and Bangladesh. The more recent trend however is that in some places where the manufacturing migration passed through, and most evident starting in Japan, is that they actually invested in modern manufacturing and skills attainment that matches the requirements of the tasks at hand in the modern global economy. The key behavior here is investment. Other companies invested in building out a full-stack modern manufacturing capability and the US did not. The US just wants to skim the highest margins from the top of the food chain and not get its hands dirty in low level details. No investment = no payback.
The current state of manufacturing in the US is an equal opportunity problem with plenty of blame to go around. You can't simply pin it on politicians or businessmen. The will of the people is as big a factor as anything. Behaviors almost always follow rewards. We got what we have because this is what we wanted and voted for. We lost our sense of purpose and replaced it with endless blaming and finger pointing. A nation of participants got replaced by a nation of spectators. When's the last time you heard of a German, Singaporean, or Japanese college athletic coach earning two or three orders of magnitude higher salary than a tenured science or engineering professor at the same university? I guess this tells you what really matters to Americans.
i live in Louisiana and the salary LSU pays to the football coach is disgusting. they say "oh but the department pays for it w/ TV revenues", but thats assuming (for odd some reason) that the program's income shouldn't go back into the general university budget. meanwhile, the library is a disgrace and they have to beg for corporate donations to build a new one. priorities?
This only shows the upper management people is responsible to the decay of America. It has nothing to do with China.
MDTA: The Origins of the Manpower Development and Training Act of 1962
In a special message to the Congress, on May 25, 1961, President John F. Kennedy told the legislators that "Large scale unemployment during a recession is bad enough, but large scale unemployment during a period of prosperity would be intolerable." Four days later, he transmitted a bill to Congress that dealt with just such a situation. The Manpower Development and Training Act of 1962 endeavored to train and retrain thousands of workers unemployed because of automation and technological change.
Hailed by the country as the first major piece of manpower legislation since the Employment Act of 1946, MDTA did not spring full-grown into John Kennedy's "New Frontier" era. Rather, the preoccupation with manpower utilization since the end of the Second World War reflected the nation's response to certain critical historical factors. The legacy of the depression had served to heighten the country's sensitivity to the issues of unemployment and economic growth. The dawn of the Atomic Age had witnessed the implementation of a new technology that threatened to replace men with machines. Furthermore, the imperatives of the Cold War, with its accent on scientific preeminence, had revealed America's weakness in training skilled technicians in sufficient numbers. The interaction of these components served as a catalyst to propel the federal government into the vanguard of human resource development as envisioned in MDTA.
Way back in late 1962, I taught Beginning Programing Classes for a school funded by the MDTA. The classes were held in the evenings, 3 hrs, and had 10-15 students (totally non-tech).
It was quite rewarding to see the Aha Moment as each student caught on to the subject.
Seven years prior to that, I had my own Aha Moment while attending a night class at Pasadena City College: Introduction to IBM Punched Card Data Processing... It changed my life!
My point: there are things that Government and Tech Companies can do together to invest in training our unemployed and under-employed citizens to get the skills to get good jobs.
IMO, it is also necessary to realize that not everyone can or wants to learn tech. I would like to see Government and Tech Companies invest in vocational training in middle schools through Jr. College. *
* The aforementioned Pasadena City College held classes where students:
The article conflates employee costs with labor costs. Sure, the average Chinese worker makes about $300 a month (as a floor), and that would be 4 to 8 times more in the U.S. as a start. But the article also states that labor costs account for about $5 per phone currently. Making the phones in the U.S. would raise labor costs to (say) $20 a phone, so that a $649 phone becomes $664 -- yes, it's more but it's hardly a deal breaker for many.
From the article, labor costs are a small fraction of the total costs of the phone. No business person likes giving away even pennies, but assembling the phones in the U.S. under this scenario is not a killer for Apple. That's if the labor cost is truly $5 a phone.
It wouldn't just be Apple. ALL manufacturing would have to be brought home. You can't single out one company. It would essentially be the end of the USA as all nations would become economic protectionists, buying only those goods they manufacture. Which is why we have a congress that is very business-oriented, and why we will never have to worry about Trump being elected.
And a little tip to Tralala...the last thing in the world the Republican party wants is full employment. Unemployment in 8% range is most desirable as it keeps wages down. Your anti-Democrat stance is evidence of your ignorance about world economies.
The article conflates employee costs with labor costs. Sure, the average Chinese worker makes about $300 a month (as a floor), and that would be 4 to 8 times more in the U.S. as a start. But the article also states that labor costs account for about $5 per phone currently. Making the phones in the U.S. would raise labor costs to (say) $20 a phone, so that a $649 phone becomes $664 -- yes, it's more but it's hardly a deal breaker for many.
From the article, labor costs are a small fraction of the total costs of the phone. No business person likes giving away even pennies, but assembling the phones in the U.S. under this scenario is not a killer for Apple. That's if the labor cost is truly $5 a phone.
That doesn't begin to account for what it would cost Apple to bring the entire production shop to the US from China.
There is no way the number is 30% or greater as Trump had been promoting
You’re right; I was wrong. It’s 42%, using only your accepted age group.
That is pure bs. He is talking a different concept. But he borrow the word unemployment. This is misleading. His concept will not be understood because this misleading.
The article conflates employee costs with labor costs. Sure, the average Chinese worker makes about $300 a month (as a floor), and that would be 4 to 8 times more in the U.S. as a start. But the article also states that labor costs account for about $5 per phone currently. Making the phones in the U.S. would raise labor costs to (say) $20 a phone, so that a $649 phone becomes $664 -- yes, it's more but it's hardly a deal breaker for many.
From the article, labor costs are a small fraction of the total costs of the phone. No business person likes giving away even pennies, but assembling the phones in the U.S. under this scenario is not a killer for Apple. That's if the labor cost is truly $5 a phone.
Honest question:
Are your calculations based on gross wages or do they include benefits -- Social Security, Medicare, ACA, Unemmployment Insuuance, etc.?
MDTA: The Origins of the Manpower Development and Training Act of 1962
In a special message to the Congress, on May 25, 1961, President John F. Kennedy told the legislators that "Large scale unemployment during a recession is bad enough, but large scale unemployment during a period of prosperity would be intolerable." Four days later, he transmitted a bill to Congress that dealt with just such a situation. The Manpower Development and Training Act of 1962 endeavored to train and retrain thousands of workers unemployed because of automation and technological change.
Hailed by the country as the first major piece of manpower legislation since the Employment Act of 1946, MDTA did not spring full-grown into John Kennedy's "New Frontier" era. Rather, the preoccupation with manpower utilization since the end of the Second World War reflected the nation's response to certain critical historical factors. The legacy of the depression had served to heighten the country's sensitivity to the issues of unemployment and economic growth. The dawn of the Atomic Age had witnessed the implementation of a new technology that threatened to replace men with machines. Furthermore, the imperatives of the Cold War, with its accent on scientific preeminence, had revealed America's weakness in training skilled technicians in sufficient numbers. The interaction of these components served as a catalyst to propel the federal government into the vanguard of human resource development as envisioned in MDTA.
Way back in late 1962, I taught Beginning Programing Classes for a school funded by the MDTA. The classes were held in the evenings, 3 hrs, and had 10-15 students (totally non-tech).
It was quite rewarding to see the Aha Moment as each student caught on to the subject.
Seven years prior to that, I had my own Aha Moment while attending a night class at Pasadena City College: Introduction to IBM Punched Card Data Processing... It changed my life!
My point: there are things that Government and Tech Companies can do together to invest in training our unemployed and under-employed citizens to get the skills to get good jobs.
IMO, it is also necessary to realize that not everyone can or wants to learn tech. I would like to see Government and Tech Companies invest in vocational training in middle schools through Jr. College. *
* The aforementioned Pasadena City College held classes where students:
built and sold a house each year
rebuilt automobiles
various shop skills
plumbing/electrician/cement worker
ballroom dancing...
AIR, they even built an airplane
I don't think so. Apple is on the cutting edge of technology. Even Apple does not clearly what the future will be in technology. Over the last thirty years, many 'new' technology has been gone. The dvd is on the way out. And tape player is no longer installed on cars. How does the stupid government know to help workers in the rapidly changing technology? Apple is on the cutting edge of technology. In this sense why Americans should be previledged? The best way is for Americans try to learn to use technology.
2 points: 1st rip on him, 2nd agree with some of it.
Trumpo the clown has all his own cr@p, from his 'Made in America' hats to the steel he uses for his building made overseas.
He s a walking hypocrite.
Hiring this moron to fix our problems is like hiring a drug dealer to stop the drug war.
He said he would 'drain the swamp' meaning get rid of political insiders and he isn't even in office yet and his entire cabinet is nothing but political insiders.
You've been had people. It was another con and you fell for it again.
-------------------
In terms of Apple and everyone else getting their stuff made overseas. I think he has point and I agree we need some jobs back. I don't think most of these factors jobs will come back because no one here wants for work for $12 a day. But I do think we need to enforce much greater taxes on theses companies and don't give the the 35% BS which we all know exactly NO ONE actually pays. Apple, along with everyone else, doesn't need 100 Billion $ sitting in Ireland because they don't want to pay taxes. Change the laws and make it illegal to park your money overseas, and then use the money for Americans.
You conveniently forget that all the money being held overseas has already been taxed by other countries. Nobody should be taxed twice regardless of how much they have. Increasing taxes has NEVER grown the economy. The US is the only country that so heavily taxes repatriated income.
The article conflates employee costs with labor costs. Sure, the average Chinese worker makes about $300 a month (as a floor), and that would be 4 to 8 times more in the U.S. as a start. But the article also states that labor costs account for about $5 per phone currently. Making the phones in the U.S. would raise labor costs to (say) $20 a phone, so that a $649 phone becomes $664 -- yes, it's more but it's hardly a deal breaker for many.
From the article, labor costs are a small fraction of the total costs of the phone. No business person likes giving away even pennies, but assembling the phones in the U.S. under this scenario is not a killer for Apple. That's if the labor cost is truly $5 a phone.
Honest question:
Are your calculations based on gross wages or do they include benefits -- Social Security, Medicare, ACA, Unemmployment Insuuance, etc.?
You are talking to a socialist. They have no idea how to run a company that can make a profit.
2 points: 1st rip on him, 2nd agree with some of it.
Trumpo the clown has all his own cr@p, from his 'Made in America' hats to the steel he uses for his building made overseas.
He s a walking hypocrite.
Hiring this moron to fix our problems is like hiring a drug dealer to stop the drug war.
He said he would 'drain the swamp' meaning get rid of political insiders and he isn't even in office yet and his entire cabinet is nothing but political insiders.
You've been had people. It was another con and you fell for it again.
-------------------
In terms of Apple and everyone else getting their stuff made overseas. I think he has point and I agree we need some jobs back. I don't think most of these factors jobs will come back because no one here wants for work for $12 a day. But I do think we need to enforce much greater taxes on theses companies and don't give the the 35% BS which we all know exactly NO ONE actually pays. Apple, along with everyone else, doesn't need 100 Billion $ sitting in Ireland because they don't want to pay taxes. Change the laws and make it illegal to park your money overseas, and then use the money for Americans.
You conveniently forget that all the money being held overseas has already been taxed by other countries. Nobody should be taxed twice regardless of how much they have. Increasing taxes has NEVER grown the economy. The US is the only country that so heavily taxes repatriated income.
I think the real issue is not Apple should repatriate the money so US can collect tax. The issue is why should bring the money back to invest in US economy but have to pay enormous sum of money first. Samsung buys Harman for five billion dollars. Does Samsung have to pay US government for this investment?
The irony of saying that business would have to pass on the increased overhead to the customer is that business never passed on the reduced overhead to the customer when outsourcing. See how that works?
Apple designs, prototypes, markets and sells phones and pads in the US. They hire Foxconn and Pegasus to mass manufacture. There is no Foxconn or Pegasus in the US. Trump should tell THEM to open assembly facilities in the US.
I don't recall the US ever having a large consumer electronics manufacturing capability. We made some early TVs and radios here, but by the time that market matured, it had all moved to Japan, then spread through Asia. Trump wants to "bring back" something that was never really here.
Comments
take note, AI. you harbor this blatant troll at your own risk and reputation.
i live in Louisiana and the salary LSU pays to the football coach is disgusting. they say "oh but the department pays for it w/ TV revenues", but thats assuming (for odd some reason) that the program's income shouldn't go back into the general university budget. meanwhile, the library is a disgrace and they have to beg for corporate donations to build a new one. priorities?
That leaves just over 62% of the population as a working age group, but does not factor in those unable to work (due to health reasons - mental or physical) or those that choose not to work (such as stay at home parents). There is no way the number is 30% or greater as Trump had been promoting, because to get to those numbers you really have to pull numbers from groups that you shouldn't.
As if you can simply say that there are 73 million people who are unemployed, without also noting that 61 million are under 15 years old and the other 12 million are between 15 and 17 years old.
Shadow's from the past:
MDTA: The Origins of the Manpower Development and Training Act of 1962
Way back in late 1962, I taught Beginning Programing Classes for a school funded by the MDTA. The classes were held in the evenings, 3 hrs, and had 10-15 students (totally non-tech).
It was quite rewarding to see the Aha Moment as each student caught on to the subject.
Seven years prior to that, I had my own Aha Moment while attending a night class at Pasadena City College: Introduction to IBM Punched Card Data Processing... It changed my life!
My point: there are things that Government and Tech Companies can do together to invest in training our unemployed and under-employed citizens to get the skills to get good jobs.
IMO, it is also necessary to realize that not everyone can or wants to learn tech. I would like to see Government and Tech Companies invest in vocational training in middle schools through Jr. College. *
* The aforementioned Pasadena City College held classes where students:
Are your calculations based on gross wages or do they include benefits -- Social Security, Medicare, ACA, Unemmployment Insuuance, etc.?
I don't think so. Apple is on the cutting edge of technology. Even Apple does not clearly what the future will be in technology. Over the last thirty years, many 'new' technology has been gone. The dvd is on the way out. And tape player is no longer installed on cars. How does the stupid government know to help workers in the rapidly changing technology? Apple is on the cutting edge of technology. In this sense why Americans should be previledged? The best way is for Americans try to learn to use technology.
There is no Foxconn or Pegasus in the US. Trump should tell THEM to open assembly facilities in the US.
I don't recall the US ever having a large consumer electronics manufacturing capability. We made some early TVs and radios here, but by the time that market matured, it had all moved to Japan, then spread through Asia. Trump wants to "bring back" something that was never really here.