Futuremark analysis debunks rumor that Apple slows older iPhones down on purpose with iOS ...

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  • Reply 21 of 123
    RacerhomieXRacerhomieX Posts: 95unconfirmed, member
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    My 6 Plus is lagging and slow since I upgraded to iOS 11
    My one is fine on 11.0.2
    Really?

    When I open Mail or Safari the app does not open immediately.

    Instead I see a blank white screen for about 1-2 seconds.
    Yes , sometimes only in Low Power Mode.It doesn't even happen always. 11.0.2 fixed most.
    In normal mode ,everything is fine.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 123
    sog35 said:
    My 6 Plus is lagging and slow since I upgraded to iOS 11
    Christ, restore the device and start as a new phone during setup. You will see all is fine. No clue what corupt settings are in you backup.
    MplsPradarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 123
    oomuoomu Posts: 126member
    gpu/cpu metrics or new features are not the point.

    The point is:  even OLD features of the phone would be SLOWER.

    For exemple: animation, the very same animation, but slower.
    Safari with NO technical reason to be slower (not a bigger binaries, not a new fancy crazy interface) is slower to START.
    Scrolling slower, the same content than previously scrolled, but now slower. and so on.  

    it's THAT kind of "slowness" which concerns people, not the talk about gpu or how some "new features" will magically (or tragically) makes _everything_ slower. 


    And yes, we all know Apple doesn't twirl its moustaches, the proof being Cook has no moustaches. ^_-

    I guess what people are truly saying is they want more years of support for bugfixes, security and stability improvements before "new features which forces the whole os to be slower".



    -
    Beside, why are you so convinced a new feature is a good reason to explain why a whole stack of software would be slower ? Here, it's not about Apple, it could be about any platform, any manufacturers.

    I'm asking why are you so convinced it's a valid technical reason to explain why a whole interface or stack of softwares should be slower.

    I'll remind MacOs and even Windows were able to be truly improved (faster for a lot of previously introduced features) and still bring NEW features. at the same time.
    retrogustomuthuk_vanalingampropod
  • Reply 24 of 123
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 1,902administrator
    I think Apple really needs to prioritize not doing new whizbang effects on the home screen when switching between apps. The new ones in iOS 11 are still pretty jarring and they're probably the major reason people think it's slower.
    This can be cut back a bit, in accessibility settings.

    Settings>General>Accessibility>Reduce Motion
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 123
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 76member
    sog35
    The point is I don't want to run NEW features.
    Hey then no problem.  Android is you you!
    magman1979radarthekatwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 26 of 123
    calicali Posts: 3,495member
    In other news water is wet and companies don’t wanna lose customers.

    Can’t believe idiots believe the anti Apple propaganda in the first place. 
    radarthekatwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 27 of 123
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 17,787member
    Okay, look, here's the reality. The public perception is that Apple has somehow crippled the hardware with an OS update, forcing users to buy new phones.

    Guess what. Newer software means heavier software demands. The phones are literally the same speed as the day they were bought and these metrics are the proof. The difference is the load placed on them by the software.

    There is no plot or conspiracy. There is no shadowy cabal demanding that code get bloated to force users to buy a new phone. There is no Cook and Ive plot to turn down the processor and GPU speed. That's insane to even speculate, but yet, here we are. Planned obsolescence as a conspiracy to force hardware sales isn't a thing.

    Do you want your phone to be the same as the day you took it out of the box? Never update your software. Problem solved.
    Mike, were there a significant number of folks saying Apple was doing something nefarious to purposefully modify users phones to slow them down? I've not ever come across that claim myself but maybe it was a "thing"? All I recall reading is that some number of users feel new OS updates aren't optimized for their older phones even if they are "compatible", resulting in poorer performance. 
  • Reply 28 of 123
    misamisa Posts: 821member
    Okay, look, here's the reality. The public perception is that Apple has somehow crippled the hardware with an OS update, forcing users to buy new phones.

    Guess what. Newer software means heavier software demands. The phones are literally the same speed as the day they were bought and these metrics are the proof. The difference is the load placed on them by the software.

    There is no plot or conspiracy. There is no shadowy cabal demanding that code get bloated to force users to buy a new phone. There is no Cook and Ive plot to turn down the processor and GPU speed. That's insane to even speculate, but yet, here we are. Planned obsolescence as a conspiracy to force hardware sales isn't a thing.

    Do you want your phone to be the same as the day you took it out of the box? Never update your software. Problem solved.
    Yet this is not true when you use Geekbench 3 or 4.

    https://i.imgur.com/v5cWxQY.png
    https://i.imgur.com/CZSSCsQ.png

    The question is, why is the benchmark getting different numbers? My Retina iPad, which remains on iOS 9.3.5 has the same Geekbench score as it had on 9.2
    But my iPhone 6S gets 1799/3083 on 11.0.2 but 2498/4374 on 9.0.2. One third of the CPU performance has vanished.

    Geekbench 4 says it should be 2373/4046
    https://browser.geekbench.com/ios_devices/38

    But it ends up being 1796/3123 on 10.3.3 and 1161/2373 on 11.0.1 , GeekBench 4 is suggesting the phone is half the speed it should be. Yet if I run it right now on 11.0.2 it gets 2174/3813, still 10% below where the GeekBench website says it should be.

    So the question winds up being, why? Did the power management change? Is more running in the background? Are Geekbench or Futuremark's benchmarks rigged in a way to give a certain score on a certain chip? Does the OS cheat one benchmark software and not another?

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think Apple is doing anything that intentionally degrades the performance of the phone, but if the maximum performance of the phone can only be obtained under very specific circumstances, then what is the point of benchmarking the devices. It all feels familiar to the CPU cheats on old benchmarks and GPU cheats by GPU vendors later on desktops, everyone is out to get the best synthetic score possible, and no real world software actually benefits from this optimization. 

    Like see https://www.xda-developers.com/benchmark-cheating-strikes-back-how-oneplus-and-others-got-caught-red-handed-and-what-theyve-done-about-it/

    edited October 2017 gatorguymuthuk_vanalingampropod
  • Reply 29 of 123
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 313member
    The last part of the article is what matters - smart phones as we know them are now 10 years old. during the early days, there were significant advances in processing power combined with significant advances in the operating systems. That meant putting a new OS on an older device put significant strain on the hardware. The last couple of years has seen this plateau with the advances slowing, so it's less of an issue now than it was with an iPhone 4, but it's still an issue. 

    The question of whether Apple could better optimize a new version of iOS to allow it to work on older devices is still open, but I have to say that Apple does a better job than just about any other tech company of maintaining backward compatibility.
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 123
    sog35 said:
    My 6 Plus is lagging and slow since I upgraded to iOS 11
    Get it backed up and RESET (not just incrementally upgrade it since the prehistoric era). Then restore that backup on "freshly" reset phone.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 123
    Apple slows down older phones....sheesh. Sigh.

    Whoever came up with that BS, never actually tested it and always goes by his fee-fees, instead of hard numbers.

    Those who think that if you can have the same performance AND LOOKS/FUNCTIONALITY of iOS on iPhone6 circa 2013 (1900/2960 score in geekbench), as on iPhone8/X that shows 4500/10000 score, is a fool, to put it mildly.
    Do they really think that you can have 1/4 of SoC power and still can expect the same performance? Really?

    Even if Apple were to exclude some features from older phones in order to keep performance up, then these idiots would claim that Apple deliberately withholds FUNCTIONALITY (instead of deliberately slowing down phones) in order to sell more phones.


    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 123
    misa said:
    Okay, look, here's the reality. The public perception is that Apple has somehow crippled the hardware with an OS update, forcing users to buy new phones.

    Guess what. Newer software means heavier software demands. The phones are literally the same speed as the day they were bought and these metrics are the proof. The difference is the load placed on them by the software.

    There is no plot or conspiracy. There is no shadowy cabal demanding that code get bloated to force users to buy a new phone. There is no Cook and Ive plot to turn down the processor and GPU speed. That's insane to even speculate, but yet, here we are. Planned obsolescence as a conspiracy to force hardware sales isn't a thing.

    Do you want your phone to be the same as the day you took it out of the box? Never update your software. Problem solved.
    Yet this is not true when you use Geekbench 3 or 4.

    https://i.imgur.com/v5cWxQY.png
    https://i.imgur.com/CZSSCsQ.png

    The question is, why is the benchmark getting different numbers?

    When was it tested? Right after the upgrade? Are you sure your iPad was not in power safe mode?
    My iPhone6 maintained performance since when I got it new (2013) to August 2017 when I gave it to my dad. I made sure I checked it after every update.
    Geekbench 3: when I got the phone, the total score was 2950-ish, when I tested it in august of 2017 it was 2920.
    In order to notice performance, as those guys claim, it should have dropped at least 40-60%. That would be 1700 and that would be obvious from the number.

    edited October 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 123
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 2,401member
    lkrupp said:
    Okay, look, here's the reality. The public perception is that Apple has somehow crippled the hardware with an OS update, forcing users to buy new phones.

    No, that is not the public perception. It is the perception of the wannabe tech crowd that loiters in comment sections making wild, unfounded, unconfirmed, irrational claims.
    People may not believe that Apple intentionally slows down their iPhone or iPad but I can tell you from first-hand experience older devices do feel slower. I was using my mother’s iPad mini 2 (which is running the latest software available for it) the other weekend and there was a lot of UI lag. People aren’t imagining this. 
    muthuk_vanalingampropod
  • Reply 34 of 123
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 17,787member
    Apple slows down older phones....sheesh. Sigh.

    Whoever came up with that BS, never actually tested it and always goes by his fee-fees, instead of hard numbers.

    Those who think that if you can have the same performance AND LOOKS/FUNCTIONALITY of iOS on iPhone6 circa 2013 (1900/2960 score in geekbench), as on iPhone8/X that shows 4500/10000 score, is a fool, to put it mildly.
    Do they really think that you can have 1/4 of SoC power and still can expect the same performance? Really?

    Even if Apple were to exclude some features from older phones in order to keep performance up, then these idiots would claim that Apple deliberately withholds FUNCTIONALITY (instead of deliberately slowing down phones) in order to sell more phones.


    Anton, have i imagined reading that Apple does deliberately withhold features from older iPhones on occasion if they are deemed incapable of offering a satisfactory user experience,  either due to the lack of needed hardware of course but also if that iOS device's available resources are too limited according to Apple? 
    edited October 2017 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 35 of 123
    sog35 said:
    My 6 Plus is lagging and slow since I upgraded to iOS 11
    Hardware evolves - faster and faster with every passing day. CPU/GPUs, etc. get more powerful in order to be able to run more powerful and sophisticated software. That's the way it's supposed to be. Unfortunately for some who can't afford to keep up with technological advancements, at some point they're just going to have to accept the fact that time does not stand still! For those who can't always get the "latest/greatest", if you were content with your device before it was replaced by a newer model, simply stick with the OS you were happy with in the first place.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 123
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 4,938member
    sog35 said:
    My 6 Plus is lagging and slow since I upgraded to iOS 11
    How many times per second do you refresh this site as to get the 1st post in each article? Impressive dedication. 1. Your anectodal experience does not invalide empirical results posted in this article 2. Your 6 is 3 generations old now, released with iOS8. Every software update does more, is more powerful, and therefore more computationally intensive (machine learning, complex calculations, graphical effects, etc)- and yes, probably optimized for the latest hardware which almost doubles in performance every year. It would be ridiculous NOT to expect some kind of performance hit with certain tasks on a 3 generation old device. But of course, that conclusion requires some common sense.
    StrangeDaysradarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 123
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 5,628member
    dysamoria said:
    Were they hired by Apple to deal with this growing PR problem?

    Benchmarks are well known not to translate to real-world usage. The biggest complaints are with GUI, restart, and app load slowdowns, not CPU or GPU functionality. No testing done on those facets, right?

    The most vocal complaints overall are with the "just upgraded" times after a new iOS comes out. Every apologist tells us why we should mock complainers as ignorant fools, and Apple rest on their laurels with that as the community solution, rather than actually addressing that issue themselves once and for all.

    It isn't even a question: Apple want you to keep buying the same hardware products every year. Now that they have phones and iPads, they can push an even faster upgrade cycle than with Macs. They are a hardware company using minimal software development to lure new buyers, who eventually may discover that the development of that software only supports selling the bullet point new features of each iOS, which sells iPhones (not continued maturation of the software product). In fact, their iOS developments have actually harmed their prior quality software development, like iWork (being back-ported from iOS to Mac OS, trashing hundreds of features and installing a clumsy GUI).

    Yes, there is a push to upgrade to a new phone. Yes, the OS is the push. No, Apple don't optimize iOS for any device but the newest. Yes, planned obsolescence is a real thing. The computer industry has made it so much more blatant than any other industry and has accelerated the same in every industry that sells computerized product: Push product out prematurely, ignore the software bugs, push out the successor ASAP, and abandon the predecessor.

    Liar, liar, pants on fire. Your rants are just that, rants. You can provide no evidence your scurrilous claims are true. Your rants are uninformed opinion and nothing more. As software progresses the horsepower required to run it efficiently increases. You would be screaming bloody murder if Apple's policy was that every iOS upgrade would only run on the latest hardware and all previous hardware was left out of the new software. Do you expect High Sierra to run on a Mac Classic as fast as it does on a 5K iMac? I have a retired 2008 iMac that won't run High Sierra at all. Am I supposed to be alleging planned obsolescence too? 
    StrangeDaysradarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 123
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 5,628member
    lkrupp said:
    Okay, look, here's the reality. The public perception is that Apple has somehow crippled the hardware with an OS update, forcing users to buy new phones.

    No, that is not the public perception. It is the perception of the wannabe tech crowd that loiters in comment sections making wild, unfounded, unconfirmed, irrational claims.
    People may not believe that Apple intentionally slows down their iPhone or iPad but I can tell you from first-hand experience older devices do feel slower. I was using my mother’s iPad mini 2 (which is running the latest software available for it) the other weekend and there was a lot of UI lag. People aren’t imagining this. 

    And this is to be expected. What don't you understand about software requiring more and more processing power?
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 123
    misamisa Posts: 821member
    misa said:
    Okay, look, here's the reality. The public perception is that Apple has somehow crippled the hardware with an OS update, forcing users to buy new phones.

    Guess what. Newer software means heavier software demands. The phones are literally the same speed as the day they were bought and these metrics are the proof. The difference is the load placed on them by the software.

    There is no plot or conspiracy. There is no shadowy cabal demanding that code get bloated to force users to buy a new phone. There is no Cook and Ive plot to turn down the processor and GPU speed. That's insane to even speculate, but yet, here we are. Planned obsolescence as a conspiracy to force hardware sales isn't a thing.

    Do you want your phone to be the same as the day you took it out of the box? Never update your software. Problem solved.
    Yet this is not true when you use Geekbench 3 or 4.

    https://i.imgur.com/v5cWxQY.png
    https://i.imgur.com/CZSSCsQ.png

    The question is, why is the benchmark getting different numbers?

    When was it tested? Right after the upgrade? Are you sure your iPad was not in power safe mode?
    My iPhone6 maintained performance since when I got it new (2013) to August 2017 when I gave it to my dad. I made sure I checked it after every update.
    Geekbench 3: when I got the phone, the total score was 2950-ish, when I tested it in august of 2017 it was 2920.
    In order to notice performance, as those guys claim, it should have dropped at least 40-60%. That would be 1700 and that would be obvious from the number.

    I actually consider the iPad to be unusable because there is too much lag just to do simple things By geekbench numbers it's 1/10th the speed of the iPhone 6S

    Like it's not my imagination that the numbers change, every time they've been tested they've been plugged in. With iOS 11 it seems that the battery life now vanishes at a rapid rate and that would point to something in the background running that would also account for the smaller loss in benchmark scores. However I'm not sure how these half and 3/4 scores keep popping up even when nothing else is running.
  • Reply 40 of 123

    Do you want your phone to be the same as the day you took it out of the box? Never update your software. Problem solved.
    Mike, I'd agree with you except for one fact.  Apple revokes code signing for older releases and requires an update to the latest release whenever you have to restore your phone.  

    I have an iPhone 4s that is running iOS 7.1.2.  I pray to GOD I never have to restore it (and remember, there are lots of reasons why you might have to restore it, as this is the only way to fix if the memory is corrupted) because if I DO I will have to update to iOS 9, which will brick my phone.  How do I know?  My OTHER iPhone 4s is ON iOS 9 and it is essentially unusable.  Same with my iPad 2 (which is similar hardware to the 4s)

    I *wish* this was the good old days when I could option click the restore button and pick which .ipsw file to restore with-- but once Apple revokes the code signing for that release you can't install it any more.

    If they would actually TEST the older hardware with the newer releases we might have fewer problems-- for example, if I visit appleInsider.com (just the root homepage) from my iPhone 4s or my iPad 2 running iOS 9 the browser goes into an endless reload loop with an error at the top saying "This website caused an error and was reloaded"  -- as near as i can tell this is caused by running out of memory in Webkit when a page with "infinite scrolling" is accessed.



    muthuk_vanalingampropod
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