Futuremark analysis debunks rumor that Apple slows older iPhones down on purpose with iOS ...

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  • Reply 61 of 123
    So we have come to the conclusion that the phone is running the same speed as when it was produced and not crippled by apple delibrately, and it's the ios software updates that wiegh the processor in the phones down. If this is true, and it appears so, then apple would know this happens. Why do they included some older devices in the list that obvoiusly become crippled. I had an original iphone 3G which came pre installed with ios 3 when i updated to ios 4.1.2 the lag on the keyboard was so bad that my phone was nearly imbeded into my living room wall. So as i say, why do apple included certain older devices in the upgrade  list, knowing rhey become unusable?.
    propod
  • Reply 62 of 123
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,351member
    hhaggis said:
    So we have come to the conclusion that the phone is running the same speed as when it was produced and not crippled by apple delibrately, and it's the ios software updates that wiegh the processor in the phones down. If this is true, and it appears so, then apple would know this happens. Why do they included some older devices in the list that obvoiusly become crippled. I had an original iphone 3G which came pre installed with ios 3 when i updated to ios 4.1.2 the lag on the keyboard was so bad that my phone was nearly imbeded into my living room wall. So as i say, why do apple included certain older devices in the upgrade  list, knowing rhey become unusable?.
    The update you talked about is probably the worse that ever happened (by far), and indeed it happened under Jobs watch and they were lucky people were patient with them and Android had not yet become so strong.

    This wasn't the same thing as people are claiming now, subtle effect that many in fact don't see. In that case, it was a severe bug that rendered many phones in fact quasi unusable. Even the 3GS (which I owned) got slammed and got really slowed down under later versions of 4.

    This was clearly a lack of proper testing that cause that. Eventually, later updates mostly cleared this in the case of the 3GS, but not quite in the case of the 3G which got essentially stuck on IOS 3 if you wanted decent performances.

    I believe at that time that Apple allowed going back down in versions (or you could do it with simple hacks); so even if it was terrible, there was in fact a way around it. You could indeed go back to the previous better version

    Despite all that, the 3GS improved and eventually made it to IOS 6 with not too bad performance.

    Updates in the last few years have had less and less impact on older phones and I expect that when the oldest phone supported will be the 6s/SE with 2GB, they'll in fact support them for 6-7 years (right now for the 5s, it will be 5 years if they stop supporting it in 2018).

    edited October 2017 radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 63 of 123
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 2,405member
    lkrupp said:
    lkrupp said:
    Okay, look, here's the reality. The public perception is that Apple has somehow crippled the hardware with an OS update, forcing users to buy new phones.

    No, that is not the public perception. It is the perception of the wannabe tech crowd that loiters in comment sections making wild, unfounded, unconfirmed, irrational claims.
    People may not believe that Apple intentionally slows down their iPhone or iPad but I can tell you from first-hand experience older devices do feel slower. I was using my mother’s iPad mini 2 (which is running the latest software available for it) the other weekend and there was a lot of UI lag. People aren’t imagining this. 

    And this is to be expected. What don't you understand about software requiring more and more processing power?
    So people just have to accept a worse experience over time? I thought Apple was all about the user experience? Why can’t they find a way then to give older devices security updates without upgrading the entire OS If the hardware can’t support it well? Because Apple doesn’t want a pie chart that shows the installed base on an older version of iOS because they knock Android for it all the time?
    gatorguypropod
  • Reply 64 of 123
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 2,405member
    lkrupp said:
    Okay, look, here's the reality. The public perception is that Apple has somehow crippled the hardware with an OS update, forcing users to buy new phones.

    No, that is not the public perception. It is the perception of the wannabe tech crowd that loiters in comment sections making wild, unfounded, unconfirmed, irrational claims.
    People aren’t imagining this. 
    People may not believe that Apple intentionally slows down their iPhone or iPad
    Of course it is slow, when a 3 -4 year old devices gets an update that runs smoothly on the current year model. I mean, come on... Common sense? Ah, forgetaboutit.

    And you are wrong, people do say that Apple INTENTIONALLY slows down devices, to sell more of the new models. The reason for them saying that is because there are people who keep spreading and supporting that rumor, that obviously is not true. Since the majority of people are not really smart, they just assume that whatever they heard about so many times MUST BE TRUE, otherwise that rumor would not have persisted.
    Then why does a 3-4 year old device get the new OS if it makes the experience worse?
    propod
  • Reply 65 of 123
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 2,405member

    lkrupp said:
    Okay, look, here's the reality. The public perception is that Apple has somehow crippled the hardware with an OS update, forcing users to buy new phones.

    No, that is not the public perception. It is the perception of the wannabe tech crowd that loiters in comment sections making wild, unfounded, unconfirmed, irrational claims.
    People may not believe that Apple intentionally slows down their iPhone or iPad but I can tell you from first-hand experience older devices do feel slower. I was using my mother’s iPad mini 2 (which is running the latest software available for it) the other weekend and there was a lot of UI lag. People aren’t imagining this. 
    Yes because that's older hardware, running newer software. As has been explained very clearly -- new point releases of an OS version are more capable and do more stuff, requiring more processing power. The hardware hasn't changed from its incept date and of course will run slower. 

    Have you never owned a desktop computer before? Seriously. Besides major OS versions, try playing any new game on an older computer and compare frame rates. 

    New software always runs slower on older, less capable hardware. This is as natural as it getting darker when the sun sets.
    Sure but the end user isn’t given that warning. Computer geeks know it but I’ll bet a lot of the iOS install base doesn’t. They just get the notification to update their software and do it. And once they’ve updated they can’t go back. I remember Apple once provided a fix for FaceTime for devices that weren’t eligible for iOS 7. It sounds great when Apple puts up a slide showing all these devices that are eligible for the latest OS but it’s not great in reality when those devices become slower & laggy in everyday use.
    propod
  • Reply 66 of 123
    lkrupp said:
    Okay, look, here's the reality. The public perception is that Apple has somehow crippled the hardware with an OS update, forcing users to buy new phones.

    No, that is not the public perception. It is the perception of the wannabe tech crowd that loiters in comment sections making wild, unfounded, unconfirmed, irrational claims.
    People aren’t imagining this. 
    People may not believe that Apple intentionally slows down their iPhone or iPad
    Of course it is slow, when a 3 -4 year old devices gets an update that runs smoothly on the current year model. I mean, come on... Common sense? Ah, forgetaboutit.

    And you are wrong, people do say that Apple INTENTIONALLY slows down devices, to sell more of the new models. The reason for them saying that is because there are people who keep spreading and supporting that rumor, that obviously is not true. Since the majority of people are not really smart, they just assume that whatever they heard about so many times MUST BE TRUE, otherwise that rumor would not have persisted.
    Then why does a 3-4 year old device get the new OS if it makes the experience worse?
    Speak for yourself. My 4 yr old devices work perfectly under iOS 11. The experience is better, not worse thanks to iOS 11, the new dock, new multitasking, control center and alike.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 67 of 123
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 1,917administrator
    tipoo said:
    This analysis misses the whole idea. 

    I don't think CPU and GPU benchmarks are relevant to this conversation. I don't think at least, that the conspiracy was that they reduced clocks on those things, that would be easily notable.

    However what we can see is that major OS releases do add fractions of seconds on casual interactions like opening apps, which do add up over time. I don't think it's out of malice, just software growth over time.

    7 to 8

     https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/09/ios-8-on-the-iphone-4s-performance-isnt-the-only-problem/

    8 to 9

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/09/ios-9-on-the-iphone-4s-a-stay-of-execution-nothing-more/

    I think on every page of this article, I articulated why. The so-called"conspiracy" may not be that amongst the forumers, and we understand that a static device suffers some from growing software, and altering UI paradigms.

    But, check social media for the larger Apple user base. The conspiracy IS that they willingly slow down the hardware.

    There. Now I've said it on this page too.
    edited October 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 68 of 123
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 1,917administrator
    Mendo said:
    Tl;dr: It's not CPU/GPU power, it's a fixed RAM size, aging flash memory and increased memory footprints of iOS and apps that cause a perceived slowdown. And that simply can't be helped.

    ############

    This site regularly reports about hardware in a professional manner. So why in the world would an editor think that raw CPU/GPU power would matter? Of course changes to APIs happen over time that may impact the processing power directly in a minuscule way, but that is not where system slowdowns come from.

    Performance issues are usually pretty much entirely memory-based. Flash memory is known to degrade over time, even with internal load balancing, so loading times naturally increase over time (far more noticeable than any change to raw CPU/GPU power could), but the real killer is memory management. The iPhone 6 plus has 1GB of RAM, compared to the 3GB of the 8 plus. iOS has grown steadily, and OS features always get priority when it comes to multitasking, so less availability memory for other apps. Meanwhile, apps also grow in size and functionality and need more memory, causing other running apps to get paged into the (constantly slowing) flash memory. So switching apps then causes a) running apps to be slowly written to flash, and b) the requested, hibernated app to be loaded from flash.

    When I got my iPhone 6 plus almost 3 years ago, 1GB of RAM could comfortably hold several apps without having to swap any of it into a flash page file. These days my iPhone is often even struggling with loading on-demand parts of a running app into memory, and often even switching between two apps would cause either of them to reload, especially when it's memory hogs such a Facebook, Twitter and Chrome. Just switching between this holy trifecta can cause slowdowns that are less than pretty.

    So what I, as a user, would expect from Apple and app developers, is better memory management for older phones, but even that can only do so much given that every app is constantly in a race of offering more and better looking functionality than its competitors, continuously bloating it's memory footprint up, and iOS obviously need to add features as well that can't be loaded on demand.

    So what I'd really like to see is memory benchmarks and multitasking checks. Xcode for instance allows to at least see RAM usage. But for real comparisons, that would require old hardware with old iOS versions and old app versions to compare, and those are hard to come by.
    Nope, that's not the case here. The iPhone's storage is over-provisioned, and there is no noticeable slowdown with time -- and even with heavy use over three years, you won't approach the limits of the read/write cycle.
    Soliwatto_cobra
  • Reply 69 of 123
    Arstechnica did a piece on the 5s with iOS 11 and it's really just the cold boot that slows down significantly. The difference in app launch speeds was fractions of a second slower in iOS 11 vs. iOS 10, but the browser speed was a bit faster. 
    watto_cobramattinoz
  • Reply 70 of 123
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 662member
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    My 6 Plus is lagging and slow since I upgraded to iOS 11
    My one is fine on 11.0.2
    Really?

    When I open Mail or Safari the app does not open immediately.

    Instead I see a blank white screen for about 1-2 seconds.
    Sog, i had the same issue.   You are down to a few Gb of free memory.  Check this and than delete some media.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 71 of 123
    gatorguy said:
    Apple slows down older phones....sheesh. Sigh.

    Whoever came up with that BS, never actually tested it and always goes by his fee-fees, instead of hard numbers.

    Those who think that if you can have the same performance AND LOOKS/FUNCTIONALITY of iOS on iPhone6 circa 2013 (1900/2960 score in geekbench), as on iPhone8/X that shows 4500/10000 score, is a fool, to put it mildly.
    Do they really think that you can have 1/4 of SoC power and still can expect the same performance? Really?

    Even if Apple were to exclude some features from older phones in order to keep performance up, then these idiots would claim that Apple deliberately withholds FUNCTIONALITY (instead of deliberately slowing down phones) in order to sell more phones.


    Anton, have i imagined reading that Apple does deliberately withhold features from older iPhones on occasion if they are deemed incapable of offering a satisfactory user experience,  either due to the lack of needed hardware of course but also if that iOS device's available resources are too limited according to Apple? 
    Yes, they are TOO limited for the current iOS indeed, which is why Android phone manufacturers do not even attempt to update a 3-4 year old devices. They know it will not go well. My wife's 5c worked ok with late iOS10. When you have a limited number of resources (true for ANY model/any manufacturer) the time will come when the next OS update will noticeably slow them down. It is inevitable, but it is far better than not supplying updates for them, IMHO.

    It is not an issue for Android phones, which get abandoned by the manufacturer within 1.5-2 years. And then you just get a new device. Ooops, looks like they are not updating it to sell more, but there is no rumor about them. Why?


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 72 of 123

    tipoo said:
    This analysis misses the whole idea. 

    I don't think CPU and GPU benchmarks are relevant to this conversation. I don't think at least, that the conspiracy was that they reduced clocks on those things, that would be easily notable.

    However what we can see is that major OS releases do add fractions of seconds on casual interactions like opening apps, which do add up over time. I don't think it's out of malice, just software growth over time.

    7 to 8

     https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/09/ios-8-on-the-iphone-4s-performance-isnt-the-only-problem/

    8 to 9

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/09/ios-9-on-the-iphone-4s-a-stay-of-execution-nothing-more/

    Analysis does not miss the idea, but confirms what we already knew - Apple does not DELIBERATELY slow down older devices.
    Also, in the majority of cases I have problems with the way people measure those numbers. Do they use averaging, do they put error bars on those sample points? 
    What good of a measurement it is, when they report 1.6 vs 1.8 sec numbers, if they have error associated with those measurements to be +-0.3 seconds.
    Also, when do they test it? Right after they updated it or did they wait before new update finishes setting itself up correctly? 

  • Reply 73 of 123
    SoliSoli Posts: 6,170member
    It's unfortunate that so much time and effort has to be spent on such a ridiculous premise. If Apple was looking to hamstring older devices to push people to update to the newest models they would simply not even waste time making a new OS work with older devices. Frankly I'm surprised Apple even goes out of their way to support older devices in SW as long as they do when there competitors don't/can't.
    hammeroftruthwatto_cobra
  • Reply 74 of 123
    Soli said:
    It's unfortunate that so much time and effort has to be spent on such a ridiculous premise. If Apple was looking to hamstring older devices to push people to update to the newest models they would simply not even waste time making a new OS work with older devices. Frankly I'm surprised Apple even goes out of their way to support older devices in SW as long as they do when there competitors don't/can't.
    Maybe they should stop supporting anything older than the last generation device. 

    If you have owned multiple iPhones, then you should know that after 2 years, your device will slow down considerably if you update the OS. 
    Newer operating systems will use more resources. Plus, if your battery was on the brink of being consumed, then it's going to kill your already dying battery. 

    If you don't want your device to slow down, don't update the OS or the 3rd party apps that you use. If you are worried about security, then turn off cellular data while you are away from a known good wifi connection. Although that's a tinfoil hat move. 

    Sorry if it's a bitter pill, but your $900 phone only has a 2 year lifespan realistically.  That's including non Apple devices. 


    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 75 of 123
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 1,193member
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    My 6 Plus is lagging and slow since I upgraded to iOS 11
    My one is fine on 11.0.2
    Really?

    When I open Mail or Safari the app does not open immediately.

    Instead I see a blank white screen for about 1-2 seconds.
    You may also have a huge history in Safari that takes awhile loading. Clear your history and Safari will open in a snap. Also check your mailboxes in Mail to see if there is a huge amount of irrelevant email. Delete them, make your mailboxes lighter and you'll be relieved. Remember you're using a 3 yrs old device, you need to accept some compromises with that.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 76 of 123
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 1,193member
    Soli said:
    It's unfortunate that so much time and effort has to be spent on such a ridiculous premise. If Apple was looking to hamstring older devices to push people to update to the newest models they would simply not even waste time making a new OS work with older devices. Frankly I'm surprised Apple even goes out of their way to support older devices in SW as long as they do when there competitors don't/can't.
    Maybe they should stop supporting anything older than the last generation device. 

    If you have owned multiple iPhones, then you should know that after 2 years, your device will slow down considerably if you update the OS. 
    Newer operating systems will use more resources. Plus, if your battery was on the brink of being consumed, then it's going to kill your already dying battery. 

    If you don't want your device to slow down, don't update the OS or the 3rd party apps that you use. If you are worried about security, then turn off cellular data while you are away from a known good wifi connection. Although that's a tinfoil hat move. 

    Sorry if it's a bitter pill, but your $900 phone only has a 2 year lifespan realistically.  That's including non Apple devices. 


    2 year lifespan sarcastically, not realistically. I have an iPhone 5s still in daily use working perfectly with iOS 11.0.2 with all modern features turned on such as iCloud, Apple Music and so on. This is a four years old device. You may consider at least four year lifespan for 64 bit models, i.e. 5s and later.
    watto_cobraStrangeDays
  • Reply 77 of 123
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 17,822member
    gatorguy said:
    Apple slows down older phones....sheesh. Sigh.

    Whoever came up with that BS, never actually tested it and always goes by his fee-fees, instead of hard numbers.

    Those who think that if you can have the same performance AND LOOKS/FUNCTIONALITY of iOS on iPhone6 circa 2013 (1900/2960 score in geekbench), as on iPhone8/X that shows 4500/10000 score, is a fool, to put it mildly.
    Do they really think that you can have 1/4 of SoC power and still can expect the same performance? Really?

    Even if Apple were to exclude some features from older phones in order to keep performance up, then these idiots would claim that Apple deliberately withholds FUNCTIONALITY (instead of deliberately slowing down phones) in order to sell more phones.


    Anton, have i imagined reading that Apple does deliberately withhold features from older iPhones on occasion if they are deemed incapable of offering a satisfactory user experience,  either due to the lack of needed hardware of course but also if that iOS device's available resources are too limited according to Apple? 
    Yes, they are TOO limited for the current iOS indeed, which is why Android phone manufacturers do not even attempt to update a 3-4 year old devices. They know it will not go well. My wife's 5c worked ok with late iOS10. When you have a limited number of resources (true for ANY model/any manufacturer) the time will come when the next OS update will noticeably slow them down. It is inevitable, but it is far better than not supplying updates for them, IMHO.

    It is not an issue for Android phones, which get abandoned by the manufacturer within 1.5-2 years. And then you just get a new device. Ooops, looks like they are not updating it to sell more, but there is no rumor about them. Why?


    New features, new security patches, and new OS versions are separate pieces of the software on Android, so directly comparing OS version share between platforms really isn't directly comparing "updates" between the two. 
  • Reply 78 of 123
    My own phone (6), was very noticeably slower and less capable over the 3 years that I used it. So much of this can be chalked up to declining battery performance and the wearing out of NAND flash cells over time. A new 6 running the latest OS would probably be fine.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 79 of 123
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,351member
    Soli said:
    It's unfortunate that so much time and effort has to be spent on such a ridiculous premise. If Apple was looking to hamstring older devices to push people to update to the newest models they would simply not even waste time making a new OS work with older devices. Frankly I'm surprised Apple even goes out of their way to support older devices in SW as long as they do when there competitors don't/can't.
    Maybe they should stop supporting anything older than the last generation device. 

    If you have owned multiple iPhones, then you should know that after 2 years, your device will slow down considerably if you update the OS. 
    Newer operating systems will use more resources. Plus, if your battery was on the brink of being consumed, then it's going to kill your already dying battery. 

    If you don't want your device to slow down, don't update the OS or the 3rd party apps that you use. If you are worried about security, then turn off cellular data while you are away from a known good wifi connection. Although that's a tinfoil hat move. 

    Sorry if it's a bitter pill, but your $900 phone only has a 2 year lifespan realistically.  That's including non Apple devices. 


    You know no such things, you basically stated a lie as a fact. You are thus a liar. bitter pill I know buddy, but that's a fact.

    I've got a god damn Ipad2 still in use and my 3GS is also still working, plus got 5s, 6s in operation in the family. Those phones are figment of my imagination in your mind it seems.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 80 of 123
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 1,193member
    My own phone (6), was very noticeably slower and less capable over the 3 years that I used it. So much of this can be chalked up to declining battery performance and the wearing out of NAND flash cells over time. A new 6 running the latest OS would probably be fine.
    Wearing out of NAND flash cells would not have such a noticeable impact on performance. iOS has no swap file, i.e. it does not swap the contents of memory to disk. So the wear of flash cells will take very long time. Other factors affecting directly RAM usage must be considered.
    watto_cobra
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