I said from day one when this first errupted this would be a huge PR problem for Apple. I wasn’t wrong. This is a good step though I agree with Ben Bajarin the $29 battery price should be permanent. Also I’m seeing quite a few posts from people saying their phone was fine with iOS 10 but when they upgraded to iOS 11 it really started to slow down. Seems there’s more issues than just the battery. Hopefully future point releases will fix these issues.
That huge PR problem exists in your wild imagination. No serious engineer talks without getting the results of the tests, benchmarks and other analysis. And Apple is managed by a serious engineer.
Ha, if it only exists in my imagination why did Apple release a statement? Why did they reduce the price of a battery replacement by $50? Why are they adding new features to iOS to give customers more visibility to the health of their battery? This was a huge PR issue that has affected Apple’s reputation and people’s trust in the company. You have have your head in the sand if you think otherwise.
Because it’s easier to spend money to change the narrative than trying to fix rampant misinformation and recall the distorted narrative that’s already out there.
Easier , to accept you did not communicate properly and that some people may feel hurt by this error, and fix the perception issue to what amount as buying the peace. Letting the narrative, no matter how false it is, escalate further, may have damaged the brand which is far more costly.
That doesn't change the fact that this has been another PR disaster. Distorted narrative or not, Apple's PR team took this to the top and got a solution. I can't see any reason to think otherwise. Apple has PR exactly for these reasons.
Seeing an opportunity from Apple's public relations crisis, some competitors this week issued statements to say that they do not throttle the processing power of older devices.
That was not a publc relations “crisis” but an engineering and testing issue at first place. Slowness claims started with the release of iOS 11, and testing, locating and fixing the issue took until this date. Apple has identified the issue in adequate time and immediately communicated its findings and solutions. There is no “public relations crisis” at all, but some media outlets and trolls won’t stop and will continue to push to create an artificial crisis, even after that. As always, their efforts will be futile...
You'd better say intelligent collaboration to use of "natural" degradation as a proclaimed cause for "measures" and throttling too early (treshold set before 80%) This is planned obsolescense which they couldn't publicly reveal. It took fairly long to create their public letter that is neither lying nor telling the whole truth. There are lots of loopholes left here, so this is damage control in a rudimentary form. Class action lawsuits will continue.
Disagree about planned obsolescence. The reasons that shutdowns occured was worked out and the OS was adjusted to guard against the shutdown. To me it seems like a perfectly appropriate fix.
What was poor was the release notes which explained the fix. Apple desire to dumb shit down to the nth degree is a real insult to the intelligence of users and meant that the fix could not be properly explained. Only now do they explain more fully their rationale. A valid one I suggest but they should simply have set this out in the first place.
I said from day one when this first errupted this would be a huge PR problem for Apple. I wasn’t wrong. This is a good step though I agree with Ben Bajarin the $29 battery price should be permanent. Also I’m seeing quite a few posts from people saying their phone was fine with iOS 10 but when they upgraded to iOS 11 it really started to slow down. Seems there’s more issues than just the battery. Hopefully future point releases will fix these issues.
Hmmm, which part of “new software makes old hardware work harder” don’t you understand? Are you new to computing?
Well perhaps then iPhone 6 and 6S shouldn’t have received iOS 11. They worked fine with iOS 10 which was also newer software to both devices. And since you can’t downgrade once you update you’re screwed if the update makes your phone really slow.
All in all it's a very good letter even if Tim is a the top of the conspiracy.
although it would be better if this price was permanent.
Also Android phone makers can't charge more than $29 for battery replacements - if you charge more than Apple its price gauging.
"although it would be better if this price was permanent."
Agree 100%
Yes because some of you want everything for free. It’s a new battery and labor time to install it. That ain’t free. I used to work for Best Buy as a PC install tech 20 years abbott and we charged 79 just to install some crappy modem or sound card. And you want it all for free?
Clearly you don’t run a business.
Ben Bajarin, an analyst who covers Apple and is mostly pro-Apple thinks the $29 battery price should be permanent too. The last record holiday quarter Apple had their profit was $18B. Their cash pile is well over $200B. Apple is not hard up for profits or money. This would be a goodwill gesture. Oh and by the way $29 is not free.
I said from day one when this first errupted this would be a huge PR problem for Apple. I wasn’t wrong. This is a good step though I agree with Ben Bajarin the $29 battery price should be permanent. Also I’m seeing quite a few posts from people saying their phone was fine with iOS 10 but when they upgraded to iOS 11 it really started to slow down. Seems there’s more issues than just the battery. Hopefully future point releases will fix these issues.
That huge PR problem exists in your wild imagination. No serious engineer talks without getting the results of the tests, benchmarks and other analysis. And Apple is managed by a serious engineer.
Ha, if it only exists in my imagination why did Apple release a statement? Why did they reduce the price of a battery replacement by $50? Why are they adding new features to iOS to give customers more visibility to the health of their battery? This was a huge PR issue that has affected Apple’s reputation and people’s trust in the company. You have have your head in the sand if you think otherwise.
Because it’s easier to spend money to change the narrative than trying to fix rampant misinformation and recall the distorted narrative that’s already out there.
Easier , to accept you did not communicate properly and that some people may feel hurt by this error, and fix the perception issue to what amount as buying the peace. Letting the narrative, no matter how false it is, escalate further, may have damaged the brand which is far more costly.
What’s the false narrative? That they were throttling phones without alerting the user?
Don’t be daft. the false narrative is obviously the one all over the hater rags — that apple is slowing down phones to make people upgrade as part of a conspiracy of planned obsolescence. You know, like the french lawsuit alleges.
Well I’m not reading the “hater rags”. What I’m mostly seeing is people complaining about lack of communication and transparency. And based on what Apple just announced they obviously were getting that feedback too.
I said from day one when this first errupted this would be a huge PR problem for Apple. I wasn’t wrong. This is a good step though I agree with Ben Bajarin the $29 battery price should be permanent. Also I’m seeing quite a few posts from people saying their phone was fine with iOS 10 but when they upgraded to iOS 11 it really started to slow down. Seems there’s more issues than just the battery. Hopefully future point releases will fix these issues.
That huge PR problem exists in your wild imagination. No serious engineer talks without getting the results of the tests, benchmarks and other analysis. And Apple is managed by a serious engineer.
Ha, if it only exists in my imagination why did Apple release a statement? Why did they reduce the price of a battery replacement by $50? Why are they adding new features to iOS to give customers more visibility to the health of their battery? This was a huge PR issue that has affected Apple’s reputation and people’s trust in the company. You have have your head in the sand if you think otherwise.
Because it’s easier to spend money to change the narrative than trying to fix rampant misinformation and recall the distorted narrative that’s already out there.
Easier , to accept you did not communicate properly and that some people may feel hurt by this error, and fix the perception issue to what amount as buying the peace. Letting the narrative, no matter how false it is, escalate further, may have damaged the brand which is far more costly.
What’s the false narrative? That they were throttling phones without alerting the user?
Man, you are being obtuse, the fucking "conspiracy" and so called planned fucking obsolescence. You know the one that got a grandstanding shithead in France to wail and moan and half the Android tit suckers to jump and down and sing and repeat with glee the same message.
You do know that fracking throttling without alerting the user occurs ALL THE TIME IN FRACKING PHONES / PCs / LAPTOPS, WATCHES. Thermal throttling under load is hella similar to this huh except it happens right from the start instead of being progressive.
In fact, I kinda assumed throttling in response to battery degradation already was occuring cause that's what I would have done as an engineering decision (I am an engineer).
When it comes to Apple, there is always a clickbait narrative going even if nothing at all is actually wrong, remember "bendgate", "antennagate", whinegate, whatevegate...
Just a simple question to you - Why can't you make your point politely without throwing tantrums against those who have a different opinion than you?
A simple Reliability analysis on the battery component would have let the engineers know of the expected life of the batteries with a certain confidence (usually around 95% confidence). This should have been followed by an accelerated life testing to determine the age. Seems like they didn't do this proper Reliability assessment properly or discovered it after he products were launched (through extended Reliability tests and/or warranty analysis) is that's pretty dumb.
Not everyone uses the battery the same, the issue is not the battery reliability at all ( except for the batch they replaced for the iPhone 6). At least try to read the actual issue.
One can make a fairly good predictive model on the analytical data to predict usage with a fair amount of certainty. Obviously, it isn't a 100% accurate model of the usage pattern, but from a pure reliability engineering standpoint, I'd accept a model that's even 80% accurate to aim for a reliability estimation of the usage.
Their reliability Engineering team needs to be fired for this fiasco. Guess they relied on the vendors assessment of Reliability estimation (and ask any experienced Reliability engineer and he will never accept a MTBF/MTTF number from a vendor and will perform their own analysis and testing). I know this from my current job in medical devices where we are required to predict battery life for lifesaving medical devices that we design.
Hey buddy, got 30 years of computer engineering behind me (graduated from Polytechnique) so stop trying to be clever. Everything you say is irrelevant. This has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIABILITY. Actually read about the issue or stop posting about it. You are the epitome of the low information commenter.
BTW, a medical device's range of use is way way way way more constricted than a consumer device in the hands of hundreds of millions (that goes without saying). You can have people playing AA games all day long while others only use their phone to call and text. This device which also has the power of a laptop with a battery 1/5 the size.. The peak usage of the latest A SOC's demand a lot more from the battery than in any other device that size. Top of the line Androids have barely caught up single core performance of the A9 (the one in the 6s).
Not to mention that things like device size are key selling point that consumer actually want runs counter to provide a big battery. Its not just Apple that wants a smaller battery, it's the consumer too. That the consumer doesn't quite understand the implication of this is pretty clear.
Also, even if only 5% of buyers are very heavy users who charges their device fully twice a day (0-10% to 100%), a lithium battery will be close to worn after 12 months (depending on ambient temp of use).
Those lets say 5% of users (could be a higher or lower percentage), probably the most techies of users, are in the millions and they're likely some of the most active online. The result is predictable. Their voice will be heard all over social media. The fact is that other than changing the battery, Apple can't do much for these users other than keeping their phones from not functioning at all, which they did. I sure The fact that they're heavy phone users means they've probably had early battery replacements in the past (cause otherwise their other phone would also be dead).
Should Apple actually spec their battery so those heavy users can use their phones for 2 years? Or will they more reasonably make sure 90% of their users can reach 2 years without changing batteries.
Again, you make lot of good points, with the usual tantrums thrown at the other person. Why it has to be that way? Why can't you be polite while making your point? Why do you want your tantrum be the key take away, instead of the actual point being conveyed?
I said from day one when this first errupted this would be a huge PR problem for Apple. I wasn’t wrong. This is a good step though I agree with Ben Bajarin the $29 battery price should be permanent. Also I’m seeing quite a few posts from people saying their phone was fine with iOS 10 but when they upgraded to iOS 11 it really started to slow down. Seems there’s more issues than just the battery. Hopefully future point releases will fix these issues.
Hmmm, which part of “new software makes old hardware work harder” don’t you understand? Are you new to computing?
You are the one with lack of basic understanding of what to expect out of a software update - New features (say anything related to AR, Facial recognition etc) which require latest hardware taking longer with older hardware is understood by everyone. There is NO reason for existing features (like navigation, safari, messages etc) which worked well with previous version of a OS (say iOS 10) to slow down dramatically with new version of OS (iOS 11), just because it is a new version. What key ground breaking "new features" have been added to "basic" iOS functionality like navigating between screens, messages, safari etc, that they are taking much longer than it took with iOS 10? Isn't this an ADMISSION that the CORE components of iOS is becoming bloated every year?
The reduced price for the replacement battery is much more reasonable for a phone battery. I hope this stays low.
If you were just paying for the battery itself I would agree. It takes a bit more than just 2 screws and some adhesive being removed to get the battery out and putting the new one in when it comes to the iPhone 6 and newer.
The reduced price for the replacement battery is much more reasonable for a phone battery. I hope this stays low.
If you were just paying for the battery itself I would agree. It takes a bit more than just 2 screws and some adhesive being removed to get the battery out and putting the new one in when it comes to the iPhone 6 and newer.
There is a huge price difference between iFixIt procuring a OEM battery from Apple's authorized vendors (in small quantities) Vs Apple procuring the same battery from Samsung/LG/whichever OEM (in large quantities), isn't it? Do you REALLY believe Apple is procuring the batteries for $25 from Samsung/LG/Anyone else?????????
I said from day one when this first errupted this would be a huge PR problem for Apple. I wasn’t wrong. This is a good step though I agree with Ben Bajarin the $29 battery price should be permanent. Also I’m seeing quite a few posts from people saying their phone was fine with iOS 10 but when they upgraded to iOS 11 it really started to slow down. Seems there’s more issues than just the battery. Hopefully future point releases will fix these issues.
Hmmm, which part of “new software makes old hardware work harder” don’t you understand? Are you new to computing?
You are the one with lack of basic understanding of what to expect out of a software update - New features (say anything related to AR, Facial recognition etc) which require latest hardware taking longer with older hardware is understood by everyone. There is NO reason for existing features (like navigation, safari, messages etc) which worked well with previous version of a OS (say iOS 10) to slow down dramatically with new version of OS (iOS 11), just because it is a new version. What key ground breaking "new features" have been added to "basic" iOS functionality like navigating between screens, messages, safari etc, that they are taking much longer than it took with iOS 10? Isn't this an ADMISSION that the CORE components of iOS is becoming bloated every year?
This is how it goes if you don’t slavishly defend Apple 24/7. You’re labeled either a troll or treated as an idiot. A few weeks ago Phil Schiller gave an interview with London’s Daily Telegraph. It didn’t get a lot of attention because it was behind a paywall. In if Schiller said (about recent software bugs):
“We just had a bad week. A couple of things happened, that’s all. The team is going to audit the systems and look carefully at the process and do some soul-searching, and do everything that they can to keep this from happening again.”
When Cook & the executive team sit down and discuss what can be improved in 2018 hopefully software quality will be at the top of the list. One thing, how about allowing older devices to stay on year old software but providing updates for any critical bugs or security issues. No you might not get some new feature but if your device is running smoothly and you don’t care about new features at least your software would still be up to date security wise. I’m sure Apple thinks showing off a slide where all these older devices get the latest software looks good but if it’s a poor user experience then it’s not good, especially when there’s no way to revert back to what you has previously. Anyway I hope 2017 has made Apple execs take a good hard look at how they can improve their software quality.
The lawsuits are going to die on the vine anyway. Apple has never promised a level of performance, and the battery has always been labeled a user consumable. Additionally, the throttling routines were announced with the iOS 10.2.1 update to keep the phones from crashing altogether, but perhaps with not quite enough granularity.
“Most iPhone users will realize, as most iPod customers realized, that they never needed to replace their batteries,” Joswiak said.
Greg Joswiak, Apple Marketing VP, July 2007, ladies and gentlemen. This was from a David Pogue story about the original iPhone lasting for 400 cycles.
Seeing an opportunity from Apple's public relations crisis, some competitors this week issued statements to say that they do not throttle the processing power of older devices.
That was not a publc relations “crisis” but an engineering and testing issue at first place. Slowness claims started with the release of iOS 11, and testing, locating and fixing the issue took until this date. Apple has identified the issue in adequate time and immediately communicated its findings and solutions. There is no “public relations crisis” at all, but some media outlets and trolls won’t stop and will continue to push to create an artificial crisis, even after that. As always, their efforts will be futile...
You'd better say intelligent collaboration to use of "natural" degradation as a proclaimed cause for "measures" and throttling too early (treshold set before 80%) This is planned obsolescense which they couldn't publicly reveal. It took fairly long to create their public letter that is neither lying nor telling the whole truth. There are lots of loopholes left here, so this is damage control in a rudimentary form. Class action lawsuits will continue.
The lawsuits are going to die on the vine anyway. Apple has never promised a level of performance, and the battery has always been labeled a user consumable. Additionally, the throttling routines were announced with the iOS 10.2.1 update to keep the phones from crashing altogether, but perhaps with not quite enough granularity.
“Most iPhone users will realize, as most iPod customers realized, that they never needed to replace their batteries,” Joswiak said.
Greg Joswiak, Apple Marketing VP, July 2007, ladies and gentlemen. This was from a David Pogue story about the original iPhone lasting for 400 cycles.
Did you just miss the part where this "iPhone slowing down because of battery" problem came with iOS 10.2.1 update? And you quoted someone from 2007?
Apple should have a standard program like this UP FRONT. I agree with them auto enabling low power mode but they should also have had instruction to replace battery at a reasonable price which now they have. IMO it was too late for a 1st class company.
Apple feels the need to roll over on this one because there’s a segment of consumers that are five, and don’t get the point of the way the iPhone functions under the circumstances as explained by Apple. It’s a total non-issue, but sometimes you have to simply bow to the absurd.
Why is it so impossible for so many to admit that Apple was wrong here?
There is nothing absurd in trying to figure out why your phone...which worked perfectly yesterday...now slows to a crawl after installing an official update. This is an issue. And Apple admitted it today.
They screwed this up not by hobbling functioning phones with an update but by not communicating with their customers what that update may look like after installed. They admitted it. And now, they’re gonna try to fix it...as they should.
Stop blaming the customer and let Apple fix this.
1. They weren't actually "wrong." Some folks not liking their design decisions doesn't make them "wrong." Maybe misunderstood, but it's at best a matter of semantic word play than anyone being in the wrong. Apple gave in to "the customer is always right... even when they don't understand perfectly reasonable motives explained in plain english". And since Apple is all about making consumers happy – often no matter what, they decided to roll over on this one. Probably for the best.
2. "now slows to a crawl after installing an official update." Conclusions drawn from assumptions. Will need to know age of phone, model, how it is being used, its condition, and exactly how many people are experiencing this. Personal anecdotes are of no interest. There's nothing here whatsoever from which to draw any conclusions.
3. They admitted to not making something clear that they thought was already understood. Apple taking responsibility doesn't admit of any actual wrongdoing. It's a business decision. Don't read too much into it. Apple's about making customers happy, even the unreasonable ones.
4. Customers very often a) don't read, b) don't understand even the most basic, straightforward logic, so yeah, I WILL blame the customer in many cases. But as with children who have patient parents, eventually mum and dad will make it all better.
5. I'm totally not preventing Apple from fixing this.
There is no actual conspiracy here. No "planned obsolescence" or any other cloak-and-dagger nonsense. Planned obsolescence does not sell new iPhones. New iPhones sell new iPhones.
They implemented a feature they thought made sense, and which they sincerely believed consumers would benefit from. They then went on to explain it, and given its logic, believed consumers would understand and appreciate same. It turned out differently, but not because of any nefarious activity.
So, in your mind, until Apple apologized Thursday for not telling anyone about this new feature, any customer who may have had negative experiences with the update was “holding it wrong”...? It’s all on the customer here, eh?
Tell me: If this “feature” had been rolled out quietly to Samsung devices with zero fanfare or with just a blip in a release document, would you have applauded the Samsung marketing department for giving the customer exactly what they didn’t know they wanted when they didn’t know they wanted it? Or would you have pointed and laughed at a complete lack of communication and, worse, a perceived lack of respect for customers?
In response to your first question: yes. Managing performance under certain conditions is both NORMAL and actually DESIRABLE, when the individual understands why it is happening or why it *might* happen. It’s done discreetly and very successfully on other forms of tech hardware without so much as a peep from anyone.
However, many consumers are uneducated as to this sort of thing and would rather knee-jerk than actually put what literacy they do have to good use. Hence, the plaintive cries for Apple to tell them all their precious innermosts. It’s kind of adorable, actually. “You never talk to me anymore!”
As to the hypothetical situation in your second paragraph, I normally don’t comment on hypotheticals because they aren’t real and don’t mean anything. But if Samsung had done the same thing I would have understood the reason because... I already know that performance management of this kind makes sense.
“Foggyhill” in this discussion has quite nicely nailed the basics of the issue, and better than I have. Refer to their posts for further information.
Apple has inadvertently hurt itself. Trying to help can hurt yourself. Lesson learned. Let customer replace battery when they feel the performance(frequent charge per day) is not as good due to battery ability to keep up. Let IOS warn user about battery issue and let iphone continue working(freeze,shutdown,less responsive,etc) like that.
If Apple didn't slow down older iPhone to avoid old battery created less accepted performance of iPhone which persuade customers to upgrade than Apple could have sold more iphones even that was not there intention. Apple, learn from Chinese and Korean phone manufacturers. Never admit publicly any fault to your products or accept any fault until like battery explodes in your face.
... although it would be better if this price was permanent.
Agreed... Apple battery replacement pricing has always been a bag of hurt.. I get that they want good profit on everything, and that’s a sound business strategy I guess, but batteries? Couldn’t batteries be an exception? Or at least they could include one heavily discounted battery replacement for every machine, once the battery starts to wear out.
Apple’s original stance was “IPhone batteries last the life of the phone”. That’s how they justified making it enclosed, when everyone else was making them easily replaceable.
I don't recall anyone at Apple saying batteries will last forever. They made it enclosed because most people never change the batteries.
Well, that, and to make it user replaceable you have to build a bunch of framework around all the othe components to make the battery separate from all the other components, fixtures for the door to snap in etc. making it bigger & bulkier, and we all know how Apple feels about that... then there’s the risk of when it gets dropped, the battery door popping off exposing it to the elements and further damage. I have to imagine Apple had a long game of making the device water resistant/proof and having a battery door would have been yet another obstacle to that. Could you fathom the outcry if Apple had started out with a “user replaceable” battery with a door and then iPhone 7 came around and THEN they take it away?
Comments
I hope the 29€ price is permanent too.
What was poor was the release notes which explained the fix. Apple desire to dumb shit down to the nth degree is a real insult to the intelligence of users and meant that the fix could not be properly explained. Only now do they explain more fully their rationale. A valid one I suggest but they should simply have set this out in the first place.
Again, you make lot of good points, with the usual tantrums thrown at the other person. Why it has to be that way? Why can't you be polite while making your point? Why do you want your tantrum be the key take away, instead of the actual point being conveyed?
Another Scam!!!!!!! Can’t believe Apple are such scam merchants
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+6+Battery+Replacement/29363
Ifixit lists the battery itself at 24.99.
There is a huge price difference between iFixIt procuring a OEM battery from Apple's authorized vendors (in small quantities) Vs Apple procuring the same battery from Samsung/LG/whichever OEM (in large quantities), isn't it? Do you REALLY believe Apple is procuring the batteries for $25 from Samsung/LG/Anyone else?????????
When Cook & the executive team sit down and discuss what can be improved in 2018 hopefully software quality will be at the top of the list. One thing, how about allowing older devices to stay on year old software but providing updates for any critical bugs or security issues. No you might not get some new feature but if your device is running smoothly and you don’t care about new features at least your software would still be up to date security wise. I’m sure Apple thinks showing off a slide where all these older devices get the latest software looks good but if it’s a poor user experience then it’s not good, especially when there’s no way to revert back to what you has previously. Anyway I hope 2017 has made Apple execs take a good hard look at how they can improve their software quality.
Greg Joswiak, Apple Marketing VP, July 2007, ladies and gentlemen. This was from a David Pogue story about the original iPhone lasting for 400 cycles.
In response to your first question: yes. Managing performance under certain conditions is both NORMAL and actually DESIRABLE, when the individual understands why it is happening or why it *might* happen. It’s done discreetly and very successfully on other forms of tech hardware without so much as a peep from anyone.
However, many consumers are uneducated as to this sort of thing and would rather knee-jerk than actually put what literacy they do have to good use. Hence, the plaintive cries for Apple to tell them all their precious innermosts. It’s kind of adorable, actually. “You never talk to me anymore!”
As to the hypothetical situation in your second paragraph, I normally don’t comment on hypotheticals because they aren’t real and don’t mean anything. But if Samsung had done the same thing I would have understood the reason because... I already know that performance management of this kind makes sense.
“Foggyhill” in this discussion has quite nicely nailed the basics of the issue, and better than I have. Refer to their posts for further information.
Well, that, and to make it user replaceable you have to build a bunch of framework around all the othe components to make the battery separate from all the other components, fixtures for the door to snap in etc. making it bigger & bulkier, and we all know how Apple feels about that... then there’s the risk of when it gets dropped, the battery door popping off exposing it to the elements and further damage. I have to imagine Apple had a long game of making the device water resistant/proof and having a battery door would have been yet another obstacle to that. Could you fathom the outcry if Apple had started out with a “user replaceable” battery with a door and then iPhone 7 came around and THEN they take it away?