"Automous region" is some ultimate bullshit. Taiwan controls its currency, armed forces and holds independent, fair, democratic elections. Just because the communist regime bullies others to not "officially" recognize Taiwan doesn't make them some "automous region," renegade province, or any other such nonsense.
Taiwan is trying to make a history of its own. Will historian around the world recognize Taiwan?
Oi! It's never been a part of the PRC and was a Japanese colony for 50 years (1895-1945). For more than 75 years it's been independent no matter what the communist oligarchs proclaim. So Taiwan is not trying to make its own history. It's continuing its history.
While China would love to remove democracy from them, it's still an independent island - and after how China has been going on in Hong Kong, they're obviously not going to tempt Taiwan into trying "one country, two systems" as China pretended to allow earlier.
That's bullshit.
Taiwan is an automous region, not an independent nation.
China would be happy to leave it as an autonomous region -- unless the west forces its hand with its standard 'freedom and democracy" line that it used to justify the invasion of Iraq. Then it will end that just as it did in Hong Kong when the west incited separatist insurrection on that island.
Actually, that is bullsh*t. Taiwan is a country. It lives under the (temporary) fiction that China and the world have created about it being an autonomous region to keep the peace, but China actually lost Taiwan in 1895 as part of the Sino-Japanese war. While Japan renounced sovereignty over Taiwan as part of the Treaty of San Francisco, China did not automatically become the "owner" of it again. Japan did not take Taiwan (Formosa) as part of WW2 or the 1930s Sino-Japanese conflicts. And the ROC was in charge of Taiwan when the Treaty of San Francisco was signed. The US did not even recognize the PRC as "China" until the 1970s. China claims Taiwan, and the rest of the world plays along for now because we want to trade with China.
But if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it is a duck. And Taiwan is a country. Autonomous regions don't have their own military and foreign policies and completely independent country-style institutions.
Just like the ROC does not have claim to the rest of China, even if they claim to (though that is rather pushed by the wayside now).
While China would love to remove democracy from them, it's still an independent island - and after how China has been going on in Hong Kong, they're obviously not going to tempt Taiwan into trying "one country, two systems" as China pretended to allow earlier.
That's bullshit.
Taiwan is an automous region, not an independent nation.
China would be happy to leave it as an autonomous region -- unless the west forces its hand with its standard 'freedom and democracy" line that it used to justify the invasion of Iraq. Then it will end that just as it did in Hong Kong when the west incited separatist insurrection on that island.
"Automous region" is some ultimate bullshit. Taiwan controls its currency, armed forces and holds independent, fair, democratic elections. Just because the communist regime bullies others to not "officially" recognize Taiwan doesn't make them some "automous region," renegade province, or any other such nonsense.
That's what makes it autonomous. It doesn't make it an independent country.
It's both amazing and amusing how the propaganda sucked in the fools: It started with "Is Taiwan independent?" "Should it be independent?" and the ongoing flood of claims has transformed that into proclamations of "it's always been independent!"
The U.S. just spent a Trillion dollars and 6,000 American lives and got its ass kicked for a third time trying to nation build. Should we try for the 4th time?
If a bunch of ragged militias armed with Kalashnikovs kicked our butts, what do you think China will do?
How many Americans lives are you willing to sacrifice for more lies and propaganda?
While China would love to remove democracy from them, it's still an independent island - and after how China has been going on in Hong Kong, they're obviously not going to tempt Taiwan into trying "one country, two systems" as China pretended to allow earlier.
That's bullshit.
Taiwan is an automous region, not an independent nation.
China would be happy to leave it as an autonomous region -- unless the west forces its hand with its standard 'freedom and democracy" line that it used to justify the invasion of Iraq. Then it will end that just as it did in Hong Kong when the west incited separatist insurrection on that island.
"Automous region" is some ultimate bullshit. Taiwan controls its currency, armed forces and holds independent, fair, democratic elections. Just because the communist regime bullies others to not "officially" recognize Taiwan doesn't make them some "automous region," renegade province, or any other such nonsense.
Yeh, that's what makes it autonomous. It doesn't make it an independent country.
No. Autonomous regions typically manage their own internal affairs but come under the umbrella and authority of the larger nation for foreign affairs, military, etc. Taiwan does not fit this model. Taiwan however, does fit the independent country model in most all regards except on paper.
While China would love to remove democracy from them, it's still an independent island - and after how China has been going on in Hong Kong, they're obviously not going to tempt Taiwan into trying "one country, two systems" as China pretended to allow earlier.
That's bullshit.
Taiwan is an automous region, not an independent nation.
China would be happy to leave it as an autonomous region -- unless the west forces its hand with its standard 'freedom and democracy" line that it used to justify the invasion of Iraq. Then it will end that just as it did in Hong Kong when the west incited separatist insurrection on that island.
"Automous region" is some ultimate bullshit. Taiwan controls its currency, armed forces and holds independent, fair, democratic elections. Just because the communist regime bullies others to not "officially" recognize Taiwan doesn't make them some "automous region," renegade province, or any other such nonsense.
Yeh, that's what makes it autonomous. It doesn't make it an independent country.
No. Autonomous regions typically manage their own internal affairs but come under the umbrella and authority of the larger nation for foreign affairs, military, etc. Taiwan does not fit this model. Taiwan however, does fit the independent country model in most all regards except on paper.
Ahh! You don't get to make up your own definition of "indepenent".
Some tried that in the U.S. a while back. It didn't end well.
"Automous region" is some ultimate bullshit. Taiwan controls its currency, armed forces and holds independent, fair, democratic elections. Just because the communist regime bullies others to not "officially" recognize Taiwan doesn't make them some "automous region," renegade province, or any other such nonsense.
Taiwan is trying to make a history of its own. Will historian around the world recognize Taiwan?
Oi! It's never been a part of the PRC and was a Japanese colony for 50 years (1895-1945). For more than 75 years it's been independent no matter what the communist oligarchs proclaim. So Taiwan is not trying to make its own history. It's continuing its history.
Taiwan represents China in UN until 1972. Is that Taiwan history? If it is not a part of China how could it do that?
It makes sense. ‘Hate speech’ is censored elsewhere and Apple probably doesn’t want its products to be used for political propaganda & to incite civil dissent/insurgency.
While China would love to remove democracy from them, it's still an independent island - and after how China has been going on in Hong Kong, they're obviously not going to tempt Taiwan into trying "one country, two systems" as China pretended to allow earlier.
That's bullshit.
Taiwan is an automous region, not an independent nation.
China would be happy to leave it as an autonomous region -- unless the west forces its hand with its standard 'freedom and democracy" line that it used to justify the invasion of Iraq. Then it will end that just as it did in Hong Kong when the west incited separatist insurrection on that island.
"Automous region" is some ultimate bullshit. Taiwan controls its currency, armed forces and holds independent, fair, democratic elections. Just because the communist regime bullies others to not "officially" recognize Taiwan doesn't make them some "automous region," renegade province, or any other such nonsense.
Yeh, that's what makes it autonomous. It doesn't make it an independent country.
No. Autonomous regions typically manage their own internal affairs but come under the umbrella and authority of the larger nation for foreign affairs, military, etc. Taiwan does not fit this model. Taiwan however, does fit the independent country model in most all regards except on paper.
Ahh! You don't get to make up your own definition of "indepenent".
Some tried that in the U.S. a while back. It didn't end well.
I am not making up my own definition of independent.
Taiwan IS independent in every measurable way. Just because PRC claims it doesn’t make it so. They have their own government, foreign policy, elections, military, currency, customs. The only thing PRC controls is the narrative. Modern Taiwan 🇹🇼 has never been part of the PRC. If Taiwan could drop its claims to be “China” then Taiwan and the world could go forward.
You don’t get to make up your own definition of autonomous or independent.
And btw. A bunch of tribesmen with AKs didn’t just beat the US. The US beat the US. With a feckless moron at the head.
"Automous region" is some ultimate bullshit. Taiwan controls its currency, armed forces and holds independent, fair, democratic elections. Just because the communist regime bullies others to not "officially" recognize Taiwan doesn't make them some "automous region," renegade province, or any other such nonsense.
Taiwan is trying to make a history of its own. Will historian around the world recognize Taiwan?
Oi! It's never been a part of the PRC and was a Japanese colony for 50 years (1895-1945). For more than 75 years it's been independent no matter what the communist oligarchs proclaim. So Taiwan is not trying to make its own history. It's continuing its history.
Taiwan represents China in UN until 1972. Is that Taiwan history? If it is not a part of China how could it do that?
Being independent and claiming the name “China” are two different things. One problem has been both sides have claimed to be “China”. Taiwan just needs to drop that claim and move on.
China the country and government mandates what happens in China. They will be offended by certain things, full stop. United States the country and government mandates what happens in the United States, They will be offended by certain things, full stop. Those from one place feeling outrage because those in the other places don't do it like your place need to stop substituting feelings and what they see on TV for actual thought, full stop. Those who think other countries do bad things and believe bad things, but mine doesn't do any of that need to take their heads out of the clouds and read a book, full stop. People that think a company should only sell products in places that are like the place you live in lack an ability to see outside their confirmation bias, extra full stop.
Apple "fan" sites are becoming less and less Apple tech talk and more like the supermarket checkout aisle magazines. Can't wait for the eventual headline -- Report: Tim Cook Impregnates Alien so iOS Can Conquer The Galaxy
Well said though remember, one Faith can never truly tolerate another so the believers in Liberty & Communism will always be at odds. I guess the real difference is that, thanks to higher transparency, the Chinese know how their strings are being pulled. On the subject of moral high ground - luckily the Chinese don’t appear to take issue with us invading middle eastern states trying to convert them to Liberty.
While China would love to remove democracy from them, it's still an independent island - and after how China has been going on in Hong Kong, they're obviously not going to tempt Taiwan into trying "one country, two systems" as China pretended to allow earlier.
That's bullshit.
Taiwan is an automous region, not an independent nation.
China would be happy to leave it as an autonomous region -- unless the west forces its hand with its standard 'freedom and democracy" line that it used to justify the invasion of Iraq. Then it will end that just as it did in Hong Kong when the west incited separatist insurrection on that island.
"Automous region" is some ultimate bullshit. Taiwan controls its currency, armed forces and holds independent, fair, democratic elections. Just because the communist regime bullies others to not "officially" recognize Taiwan doesn't make them some "automous region," renegade province, or any other such nonsense.
Yeh, that's what makes it autonomous. It doesn't make it an independent country.
No. Autonomous regions typically manage their own internal affairs but come under the umbrella and authority of the larger nation for foreign affairs, military, etc. Taiwan does not fit this model. Taiwan however, does fit the independent country model in most all regards except on paper.
Ahh! You don't get to make up your own definition of "indepenent".
Some tried that in the U.S. a while back. It didn't end well.
I am not making up my own definition of independent.
Taiwan IS independent in every measurable way. Just because PRC claims it doesn’t make it so. They have their own government, foreign policy, elections, military, currency, customs. The only thing PRC controls is the narrative. Modern Taiwan ߇鰟缠has never been part of the PRC. If Taiwan could drop its claims to be “China” then Taiwan and the world could go forward.
You don’t get to make up your own definition of autonomous or independent.
And btw. A bunch of tribesmen with AKs didn’t just beat the US. The US beat the US. With a feckless moron at the head.
Likewise, just because we claimed the Confederecy "didn't make it so" either. Err, oh wait! I guess it did!
Except for Republicans and their sycophants, the world recognizes that Taiwan is an autonomous region of China.
The problem is:
We can afford neither a hot nor a cold war with China. But some are trying to instigate that war and China has made it very clear that the quickest easiest way to do that is to try to take Taiwan from them. To them, this is no abstract political debate. It's deadly serious.
... So why would any sane person instigate an unnecessary war with China?
... With Taiwan as an autonomous region, China was happy. The U.S. was happy and Taiwan was happy - and prosperous. Rocking that boat was a Trumpian thing to do. And we know he mostly liked to cause trouble - for others.
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By the way; which one of the 4 U.S. presidents was the "feckless moron" who lost to those ragtag militias armed with kalashnikovs -- or do you think a fifth one could have beaten them?
"Automous region" is some ultimate bullshit. Taiwan controls its currency, armed forces and holds independent, fair, democratic elections. Just because the communist regime bullies others to not "officially" recognize Taiwan doesn't make them some "automous region," renegade province, or any other such nonsense.
Taiwan is trying to make a history of its own. Will historian around the world recognize Taiwan?
Oi! It's never been a part of the PRC and was a Japanese colony for 50 years (1895-1945). For more than 75 years it's been independent no matter what the communist oligarchs proclaim. So Taiwan is not trying to make its own history. It's continuing its history.
Taiwan represents China in UN until 1972. Is that Taiwan history? If it is not a part of China how could it do that?
Being independent and claiming the name “China” are two different things. One problem has been both sides have claimed to be “China”. Taiwan just needs to drop that claim and move on.
Taiwan is independent of what? Economically it depends on trade with mainland China. Each year Taiwan has a surplus of over $100 billion US dollars. Militarily it depends on buying weapons from US. Culturally most Taiwanese are strongly related to mainland China. Their ancestors came to Taiwan in the last two to three hundred years. Maybe this does not apply to you. Your ancestor maybe from Japan.
While China would love to remove democracy from them, it's still an independent island - and after how China has been going on in Hong Kong, they're obviously not going to tempt Taiwan into trying "one country, two systems" as China pretended to allow earlier.
That's bullshit.
Taiwan is an automous region, not an independent nation.
China would be happy to leave it as an autonomous region -- unless the west forces its hand with its standard 'freedom and democracy" line that it used to justify the invasion of Iraq. Then it will end that just as it did in Hong Kong when the west incited separatist insurrection on that island.
"Automous region" is some ultimate bullshit. Taiwan controls its currency, armed forces and holds independent, fair, democratic elections. Just because the communist regime bullies others to not "officially" recognize Taiwan doesn't make them some "automous region," renegade province, or any other such nonsense.
That's what makes it autonomous. It doesn't make it an independent country.
It's both amazing and amusing how the propaganda sucked in the fools: It started with "Is Taiwan independent?" "Should it be independent?" and the ongoing flood of claims has transformed that into proclamations of "it's always been independent!"
The U.S. just spent a Trillion dollars and 6,000 American lives and got its ass kicked for a third time trying to nation build. Should we try for the 4th time?
If a bunch of ragged militias armed with Kalashnikovs kicked our butts, what do you think China will do?
How many Americans lives are you willing to sacrifice for more lies and propaganda?
That is no one's definition of autonomous. Even you can't be that dense. All the extra BS about nation building has nothing to do with Taiwan and China's bullying.
Oi! It's never been a part of the PRC and was a Japanese colony for 50 years (1895-1945). For more than 75 years it's been independent no matter what the communist oligarchs proclaim. So Taiwan is not trying to make its own history. It's continuing its history.
Taiwan represents China in UN until 1972. Is that Taiwan history? If it is not a part of China how could it do that?
So, you're going to gloss over 1895-1945. You're going to gloss over the fact that the commies never possessed nor controlled Taiwan in any shape or form.
Oi! It's never been a part of the PRC and was a Japanese colony for 50 years (1895-1945). For more than 75 years it's been independent no matter what the communist oligarchs proclaim. So Taiwan is not trying to make its own history. It's continuing its history.
Taiwan represents China in UN until 1972. Is that Taiwan history? If it is not a part of China how could it do that?
So, you're going to gloss over 1895-1945. You're going to gloss over the fact that the commies never possessed nor controlled Taiwan in any shape or form.
I am not glossing over 1895-1945. You have to look at how Japan got hold of Taiwan and from whom. China ceded Taiwan to Japan because of a war. The war was started by Japan to expand in Korea. Korea was a protectorate of China. Korean king asked China for help. China lost the war with Japan then force China to cede Taiwan. China did not invade Japan. China was trying to help Korea from being occupied by Japan. This is the true history. Every Korean will agree on this history. If you don't believe, ask any Korean who knows Korean history. CCP is a political party who is governing mainland China. You try to mix a political party with a nation. This is the tactic Taiwan is trying to change history. But history cannot be changed.
While China would love to remove democracy from them, it's still an independent island - and after how China has been going on in Hong Kong, they're obviously not going to tempt Taiwan into trying "one country, two systems" as China pretended to allow earlier.
That's bullshit.
Taiwan is an automous region, not an independent nation.
China would be happy to leave it as an autonomous region -- unless the west forces its hand with its standard 'freedom and democracy" line that it used to justify the invasion of Iraq. Then it will end that just as it did in Hong Kong when the west incited separatist insurrection on that island.
"Automous region" is some ultimate bullshit. Taiwan controls its currency, armed forces and holds independent, fair, democratic elections. Just because the communist regime bullies others to not "officially" recognize Taiwan doesn't make them some "automous region," renegade province, or any other such nonsense.
That's what makes it autonomous. It doesn't make it an independent country.
It's both amazing and amusing how the propaganda sucked in the fools: It started with "Is Taiwan independent?" "Should it be independent?" and the ongoing flood of claims has transformed that into proclamations of "it's always been independent!"
The U.S. just spent a Trillion dollars and 6,000 American lives and got its ass kicked for a third time trying to nation build. Should we try for the 4th time?
If a bunch of ragged militias armed with Kalashnikovs kicked our butts, what do you think China will do?
How many Americans lives are you willing to sacrifice for more lies and propaganda?
That is no one's definition of autonomous. Even you can't be that dense. All the extra BS about nation building has nothing to do with Taiwan and China's bullying.
Nation building has EVERYTHING to do with the movement to declare Taiwan independent of China. It's creating a nation out of thin air. And, like our other ventures into nation building, it will include the U.S. losing yet another war. Again.
So yeh, it has everything to do with nation building.
Oi! It's never been a part of the PRC and was a Japanese colony for 50 years (1895-1945). For more than 75 years it's been independent no matter what the communist oligarchs proclaim. So Taiwan is not trying to make its own history. It's continuing its history.
Taiwan represents China in UN until 1972. Is that Taiwan history? If it is not a part of China how could it do that?
So, you're going to gloss over 1895-1945. You're going to gloss over the fact that the commies never possessed nor controlled Taiwan in any shape or form.
Modern day Taiwan is/was run by the losers of the China civil war that put Mao in control of the mainland. The losers fled to Taiwan but refused to concede defeat and claimed that they were the real China. When that nonsense didn't work they settled for being an autonomous region and mostly left alone. Everybody was satisfied with that situation till Trump did what Trump does: stirred up the hornet's nest and told them to declare themselves an independent nation.
While he implied to them that the U.S. would support them, there was no way even Trump would dare take on China in their own back yard. So, he simply led them down a rabbit hole.
The U.S. is once again going to look like fools when they push China a little too hard and China retakes Taiwan by force and the Americans say: "Gee! We gave them training and equipment. We don't understand how they could be crushed in a matter of days".
You can be sure that the lessons of Afghanistan were not lost on either China or Taiwan.
For us this is an abstract political ideology thing. For China, this is their home. I wouldn't bet against them. They will no more give up Taiwan than we would give up Florida (although that last is a tempting idea in light of their crazy governor)
Oi! It's never been a part of the PRC and was a Japanese colony for 50 years (1895-1945). For more than 75 years it's been independent no matter what the communist oligarchs proclaim. So Taiwan is not trying to make its own history. It's continuing its history.
Taiwan represents China in UN until 1972. Is that Taiwan history? If it is not a part of China how could it do that?
So, you're going to gloss over 1895-1945. You're going to gloss over the fact that the commies never possessed nor controlled Taiwan in any shape or form.
Modern day Taiwan is/was run by the losers of the China civil war that put Mao in control of the mainland. The losers fled to Taiwan but refused to concede defeat and claimed that they were the real China. When that nonsense didn't work they settled for being an autonomous region and mostly left alone. Everybody was satisfied with that situation till Trump did what Trump does: stirred up the hornet's nest and told them to declare themselves an independent nation.
While he implied to them that the U.S. would support them, there was no way even Trump would dare take on China in their own back yard. So, he simply led them down a rabbit hole.
The U.S. is once again going to look like fools when they push China a little too hard and China retakes Taiwan by force and the Americans say: "Gee! We gave them training and equipment. We don't understand how they could be crushed in a matter of days".
You can be sure that the lessons of Afghanistan were not lost on either China or Taiwan.
For us this is an abstract political ideology thing. For China, this is their home. I wouldn't bet against them. They will no more give up Taiwan than we would give up Florida (although that last is a tempting idea in light of their crazy governor)
Although there are different voices in China, Xi has declared more than once that he will seek to reunify Taiwan peacefully. China haters try to gloss over what Xi said and try to make impression to the world that China try to take over Taiwan by force.
Not sure how China can "give up" Taiwan when they exhibit no control over it at all.
Thank you! It's pointless trying to reason with dunces. They're consuming from the CCP trough and nothing will convince them otherwise. Not wasting my time any further.
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Actually, that is bullsh*t. Taiwan is a country. It lives under the (temporary) fiction that China and the world have created about it being an autonomous region to keep the peace, but China actually lost Taiwan in 1895 as part of the Sino-Japanese war. While Japan renounced sovereignty over Taiwan as part of the Treaty of San Francisco, China did not automatically become the "owner" of it again. Japan did not take Taiwan (Formosa) as part of WW2 or the 1930s Sino-Japanese conflicts. And the ROC was in charge of Taiwan when the Treaty of San Francisco was signed. The US did not even recognize the PRC as "China" until the 1970s. China claims Taiwan, and the rest of the world plays along for now because we want to trade with China.
But if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it is a duck. And Taiwan is a country. Autonomous regions don't have their own military and foreign policies and completely independent country-style institutions.
Just like the ROC does not have claim to the rest of China, even if they claim to (though that is rather pushed by the wayside now).
Should we try for the 4th time?
You don’t get to make up your own definition of autonomous or independent.
On the subject of moral high ground - luckily the Chinese don’t appear to take issue with us invading middle eastern states trying to convert them to Liberty.