I love this man! this is so great, that we can all come together in the MOAF and actually have a intelligent discussion with out any mindless flames and put downs...this is awesome.
not to mention the fact that the movie is quite the mind-hump
here are some things, that I think I know, but I'd like to run by you guys, just to get a second look.
is the architect a program?
and
is persephone a program?
I believe both are, but for some reason I am having second thoughts.
Bane was infected by smith, I think that is pretty clear, Why else would he go from wanting to help neo(by delivering the oracle's message) to wanting to kill him(which is on smiths agenda)
Smith wants power, he said that in the hallway at the end, and he also suggested it in the first matrix. I believe he wants to control the matrix, and hat's why he was waiting for neo and crew to get to the core, becuase he thought that what ever was there, would give him that power(to control the matrix) it is clear he doesn't like humans, and it is also clear(or semi clear) he doesn't have much affection for the machines either, he is avirus, he lives to multiply and infect as many programs as he can, if he could download his program to every human connected to the matrix, I believe he would do that.
Smith is certainly going to be the lead antagonist in the final movie, he certainly clashes with a lot of people's interests, and it seems that he is beyond control.
Here is a thought, if Smith infects Neo, and leaves that much needed bit of code that needs to return to the source, does not Smith become the One??? Just a thought, and would Smith also gain Neo's abilities???
pardon me for popping in so late, but I just saw it last nite and i was wow'd. i thought the first one was quite bad, and i probably went in with lowered expectations, but i came out happy.
also, that mathematical idea for explaining neo from the goddy character, i think is a bit difficult to understand. i mean, i think i got it, but when i read heard his, and flesh people's, explanations it doesn't seem as clear as it is in me head. let's see if i got it right: the machines plug into these people, and presents them with the matrix. 99.9% believe it, as they see it, but the rest don't. those who don't are most of the people in zion (probably some who haven't gotten the pill yet too). neo is an extrapolation of the disbelievers. given enough offspring, the matrix will eventually encounter 'the one' who is strong enough to really get around the matrix. and, apon finding this guy, the creator decides to reboot his computer. since he can't really control this 'one', he has to offer him the option: a machine reboot or complete annhilation. did i get it right?
Scott, I think your earlier assertion is incorrect. I don't have the time now but I believe the Architect himself asserts that the "second Matrix also failed". I believe the 2-6 matrices are all based on the same "imperfect world" based on "human grotesqueries", but it seems like it is somehow regenerated / upgraded / whatever the hell you want to call it each time "the one" has to make their choice. It's like the matrix itself has a life cycle that only a few players are even aware of (Agents included) .....
Well here's the dialog.
the matrix is older than you know. i prefer counting from the emerging of one integral anomoly to the next, in which case, this is the sixth version.
the fist matrix i designed was quite naturally perfect, a work of art. flawless. sublime. a triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. the inevitability of its doom is aparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfectino inherent in every human being. thus, i redisigned it, based on your history, to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. however, i was again frustrated by failure.
So the first was a failure and redisgned and still failed. Maybe you could call that two? But the current one is "older than you know". Now he says it's the "sixth version" but I don't think that means that it's restarted each time. Or maybe that it's still the same martix just "reloaded" each time? Maybe the transcription is off. It's the second version of the matrix on it's sixth itteration.
I love this man! this is so great, that we can all come together in the MOAF and actually have a intelligent discussion with out any mindless flames and put downs...this is awesome.
Serpah (the Oracle's guardian) appears twice in the Revolutions trailer: as well as a close up of him with two pistols there's also a few frames of him kicking someone, so it looks like he'll have a bigger part to play.
Okay, closer look at the we see Serpah fighting some unknown bald white guy. Looks like a "freed mind" from Zion but who knows?
I'm still thinking the Oracle is up to something. Who's side is she on? Both? At the end of Rev' I thought she was just part of the system to cause Neo to go back to the source. BUT she told trinity that she would fall in love with the one AND the architect says that Neo's love is something new. WTF is she up to.
Smith and Neo meet again. In the rain. One of the parts I loved about the first Matrix was how the sprinklers came on (rain if you will) when Neo set out to free Morpheus. To me it indicated that the agents had lost control of the system. Hummmm? What does Morpheus say when Neo and Smith meet? "He fights for us?" I can't tell?
Anyone know who makes the sunglasses we see in the movie? Oakley?
I kinda like the Agent glasses -- or at least the ones that the guy in the Mountain Dew (?) ad is wearing. I think they're the same ones that are "sitting" on the "Apparel" tab at Amazon.com? I dunno. I just thought those angular ones were pretty cool. Would probably look like crap on me though...
[Edit: OK, I found the merchandise site (not obviously linked from main Matrix site. Blinde Design and Vision make the official shades and replicas respectively, only, I don't see the kind in the soda spot noted above (which I kind of like better than the "Agent Smith" shades).
pardon me for popping in so late, but I just saw it last nite and i was wow'd. i thought the first one was quite bad, and i probably went in with lowered expectations, but i came out happy.
also, that mathematical idea for explaining neo from the goddy character, i think is a bit difficult to understand. i mean, i think i got it, but when i read heard his, and flesh people's, explanations it doesn't seem as clear as it is in me head. let's see if i got it right: the machines plug into these people, and presents them with the matrix. 99.9% believe it, as they see it, but the rest don't. those who don't are most of the people in zion (probably some who haven't gotten the pill yet too). neo is an extrapolation of the disbelievers. given enough offspring, the matrix will eventually encounter 'the one' who is strong enough to really get around the matrix. and, apon finding this guy, the creator decides to reboot his computer. since he can't really control this 'one', he has to offer him the option: a machine reboot or complete annhilation. did i get it right?
I think you have it all right, as far as my understanding goes anyway, except the part about the reboot. The Architect doesn't mention restarting the Matrix, only the reinsertion of the code carried by the One. He does say he prefers to count 'verions' by the number of Ones there have been, but that doesn't equate necessarily to retstarting the Matrix. I think what is restarted is the cycle of Zion. Zion contains freed humans and free born humans. They need to be periodically wiped out because as they become a large group they become a potential threat in the real world where they can't be controlled to the extent they are in the machine. As the grow in number and zeal, they increase even faster as the free minds at a faster rate and more and more children are born free. So, once the One is released and set on his path to the Source, then Zion is wiped out and the One, after reinserting his code, selects a small group of humans in the Matrix to free and retarts Zion again and instructs them in the myth of the One, so that they zealously set about to freeing the 'problem' minds that can create problems within the Matrix.
Even though I was warned I was a little disappointed by all the vapid dialogue. I almost fell asleep a couple times. I thought the action was fantastic though.
Occam's razor says that we are dealing with matrix in a matrix, or side by side matrices (perhaps connected by ssh lol). Any other explanations for the smith infection, neo stopping bugs, and general mysticism (kiss people to bring them back to life for example) just make no sense in a rational world.
One thing that I thought was really cool though, was how multi-ethnic the general populace of Zion was though. Like what you would expect if robots were randomly mixing together genes. The dance/sex scene was still a nuisance though, and when you think that this is probably what got the movie an R rating... hmm...
Finally, I found it a little frustrating how far back Neo's colleagues have lagged in butt-kicking skills. Fights with them seemed to involve just staying alive long enough for Neo to fly in (literally) and save them. I know that Neo is supposed to be the one and everything but still...
from where? neo? zion would be gone along with everything from it...
Population would be gone, no reason to think the whole city and it's infrastructure was wiped out too. In the first movie, they explain to Neo that Zion is the last bastion of humanity hiding from the machines. To me that implied that they believed that Zion existed from the days before the matrix.
any mainstream movie that spawns 6 pages of thread trying to figure out what the hell is going on, did something wrong.
I think it implies they did something right. It is only half of the movie. We aren't supposed to understand the whole picture at this point. Imagine watching only the first hour or so of the original and consider how much discussion that would generate about how things were going to work out in the end.
Comments
not to mention the fact that the movie is quite the mind-hump
here are some things, that I think I know, but I'd like to run by you guys, just to get a second look.
is the architect a program?
and
is persephone a program?
I believe both are, but for some reason I am having second thoughts.
Bane was infected by smith, I think that is pretty clear, Why else would he go from wanting to help neo(by delivering the oracle's message) to wanting to kill him(which is on smiths agenda)
Smith wants power, he said that in the hallway at the end, and he also suggested it in the first matrix. I believe he wants to control the matrix, and hat's why he was waiting for neo and crew to get to the core, becuase he thought that what ever was there, would give him that power(to control the matrix) it is clear he doesn't like humans, and it is also clear(or semi clear) he doesn't have much affection for the machines either, he is avirus, he lives to multiply and infect as many programs as he can, if he could download his program to every human connected to the matrix, I believe he would do that.
Smith is certainly going to be the lead antagonist in the final movie, he certainly clashes with a lot of people's interests, and it seems that he is beyond control.
I doubt it though, because when smith infects someone, he's not assimilating them, they are being assimilated by him.
Smith tried to infect neo, didn't work, so I doubt that could happen
Just a "what if" thought. Just speculation added to fiction.
also, that mathematical idea for explaining neo from the goddy character, i think is a bit difficult to understand. i mean, i think i got it, but when i read heard his, and flesh people's, explanations it doesn't seem as clear as it is in me head. let's see if i got it right: the machines plug into these people, and presents them with the matrix. 99.9% believe it, as they see it, but the rest don't. those who don't are most of the people in zion (probably some who haven't gotten the pill yet too). neo is an extrapolation of the disbelievers. given enough offspring, the matrix will eventually encounter 'the one' who is strong enough to really get around the matrix. and, apon finding this guy, the creator decides to reboot his computer. since he can't really control this 'one', he has to offer him the option: a machine reboot or complete annhilation. did i get it right?
Originally posted by Moogs
What a mind-hump this movie is becoming...
Scott, I think your earlier assertion is incorrect. I don't have the time now but I believe the Architect himself asserts that the "second Matrix also failed". I believe the 2-6 matrices are all based on the same "imperfect world" based on "human grotesqueries", but it seems like it is somehow regenerated / upgraded / whatever the hell you want to call it each time "the one" has to make their choice. It's like the matrix itself has a life cycle that only a few players are even aware of (Agents included) .....
Well here's the dialog.
the matrix is older than you know. i prefer counting from the emerging of one integral anomoly to the next, in which case, this is the sixth version.
the fist matrix i designed was quite naturally perfect, a work of art. flawless. sublime. a triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. the inevitability of its doom is aparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfectino inherent in every human being. thus, i redisigned it, based on your history, to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. however, i was again frustrated by failure.
So the first was a failure and redisgned and still failed. Maybe you could call that two? But the current one is "older than you know". Now he says it's the "sixth version" but I don't think that means that it's restarted each time. Or maybe that it's still the same martix just "reloaded" each time? Maybe the transcription is off. It's the second version of the matrix on it's sixth itteration.
1.0=perfect world
2.0=modeled after history
2.1=modeled after history + choice, 6th version of 'the one' (.5)
Originally posted by Wrong Robust
I love this man! this is so great, that we can all come together in the MOAF and actually have a intelligent discussion with out any mindless flames and put downs...this is awesome.
i hate you.
Okay, closer look at the we see Serpah fighting some unknown bald white guy. Looks like a "freed mind" from Zion but who knows?
I'm still thinking the Oracle is up to something. Who's side is she on? Both? At the end of Rev' I thought she was just part of the system to cause Neo to go back to the source. BUT she told trinity that she would fall in love with the one AND the architect says that Neo's love is something new. WTF is she up to.
Smith and Neo meet again. In the rain. One of the parts I loved about the first Matrix was how the sprinklers came on (rain if you will) when Neo set out to free Morpheus. To me it indicated that the agents had lost control of the system. Hummmm? What does Morpheus say when Neo and Smith meet? "He fights for us?" I can't tell?
Anyone know who makes the sunglasses we see in the movie? Oakley?
I kinda like the Agent glasses -- or at least the ones that the guy in the Mountain Dew (?) ad is wearing. I think they're the same ones that are "sitting" on the "Apparel" tab at Amazon.com? I dunno. I just thought those angular ones were pretty cool. Would probably look like crap on me though...
[Edit: OK, I found the merchandise site (not obviously linked from main Matrix site. Blinde Design and Vision make the official shades and replicas respectively, only, I don't see the kind in the soda spot noted above (which I kind of like better than the "Agent Smith" shades).
Originally posted by thuh Freak
pardon me for popping in so late, but I just saw it last nite and i was wow'd. i thought the first one was quite bad, and i probably went in with lowered expectations, but i came out happy.
also, that mathematical idea for explaining neo from the goddy character, i think is a bit difficult to understand. i mean, i think i got it, but when i read heard his, and flesh people's, explanations it doesn't seem as clear as it is in me head. let's see if i got it right: the machines plug into these people, and presents them with the matrix. 99.9% believe it, as they see it, but the rest don't. those who don't are most of the people in zion (probably some who haven't gotten the pill yet too). neo is an extrapolation of the disbelievers. given enough offspring, the matrix will eventually encounter 'the one' who is strong enough to really get around the matrix. and, apon finding this guy, the creator decides to reboot his computer. since he can't really control this 'one', he has to offer him the option: a machine reboot or complete annhilation. did i get it right?
I think you have it all right, as far as my understanding goes anyway, except the part about the reboot. The Architect doesn't mention restarting the Matrix, only the reinsertion of the code carried by the One. He does say he prefers to count 'verions' by the number of Ones there have been, but that doesn't equate necessarily to retstarting the Matrix. I think what is restarted is the cycle of Zion. Zion contains freed humans and free born humans. They need to be periodically wiped out because as they become a large group they become a potential threat in the real world where they can't be controlled to the extent they are in the machine. As the grow in number and zeal, they increase even faster as the free minds at a faster rate and more and more children are born free. So, once the One is released and set on his path to the Source, then Zion is wiped out and the One, after reinserting his code, selects a small group of humans in the Matrix to free and retarts Zion again and instructs them in the myth of the One, so that they zealously set about to freeing the 'problem' minds that can create problems within the Matrix.
Originally posted by Paul
i wonder how zion got all the tech to build ships and all the fighting and operating programs....
Well, since the initial group would have 'jacks' on their bodies, they could upload the information to their brains.
Even though I was warned I was a little disappointed by all the vapid dialogue. I almost fell asleep a couple times. I thought the action was fantastic though.
Occam's razor says that we are dealing with matrix in a matrix, or side by side matrices (perhaps connected by ssh lol). Any other explanations for the smith infection, neo stopping bugs, and general mysticism (kiss people to bring them back to life for example) just make no sense in a rational world.
One thing that I thought was really cool though, was how multi-ethnic the general populace of Zion was though. Like what you would expect if robots were randomly mixing together genes. The dance/sex scene was still a nuisance though, and when you think that this is probably what got the movie an R rating... hmm...
Finally, I found it a little frustrating how far back Neo's colleagues have lagged in butt-kicking skills. Fights with them seemed to involve just staying alive long enough for Neo to fly in (literally) and save them. I know that Neo is supposed to be the one and everything but still...
Originally posted by Paul
from where? neo? zion would be gone along with everything from it...
Population would be gone, no reason to think the whole city and it's infrastructure was wiped out too. In the first movie, they explain to Neo that Zion is the last bastion of humanity hiding from the machines. To me that implied that they believed that Zion existed from the days before the matrix.
Originally posted by alcimedes
any mainstream movie that spawns 6 pages of thread trying to figure out what the hell is going on, did something wrong.
I think it implies they did something right. It is only half of the movie. We aren't supposed to understand the whole picture at this point. Imagine watching only the first hour or so of the original and consider how much discussion that would generate about how things were going to work out in the end.