Did a lot of other people notice that the 'animatrix' shorts tied directly into Matrix Reloaded. At least a bunch of them did. Like that dude that is a 'lacky boy' (so to speak) for Neo. One of the Animatrix shorts is about how he frees his own mind after a skateboard chase by agents through his school. He thinks that Neo freed his mind even in the short. ;-) And then there was the info from the Osiris which refers to the 'last flight of the osiris' short.
This is one theory presented by a friend of mine in an e-mail discussion I've been participating in:
Certainly an interesting idea (though I don't imagine this will actually turn out to be the case).
I doubt the whole 'man made a deal with the machines' thing is true. If you have seen the Animatrix shorts, You will see that there was a machine/human war, which they won. Those shorts were made with consultation from the Wachowski Brothers, and also some of the shorts were incorporated into the movie, which leads me to believe that they have most if not all of the true vision of the Wachowski Brothers.
I don't think that Merovingian's (french dude) dialogue was just for show. The Merovingian family was part of a French dynasty before and were believed to be direct desendents of Christ. In this case the Anti-Christ. His wife's name is Persephone who in greek mythology was sentenced to live in the underworld for 4 months out of the year (winter). They also represent how machines cannot have human emotions like Neo and Trinity. ie..Merovingian giving the cake to the woman and then she has an orgasm and Persephone kissing Neo in hope of feeling the love that he gives Trinity. Persephone also tells Neo how her husband used to be like him. Meaning that Merovingian could have been a previous The One. Others things I have been thinking about is the number 6. There were 5 books of Moses until the New Testament making it number 6. The new covenent so to speak. What do you guys think?
Finally saw Reloaded. Hated it. Too much boring psudo-philosophy and not enough cool ideas. The first film was so much better. It may have been a litany of borrowed concepts (the matrix from William Gibson's Neuromancer), plot points (a good 25% of the ideas are lifts from Grant Morrison's Invisibles), and cinematic tricks (the 'time-slice' techniques developed by Michael Gondry / BUF Compagnie = bullet time) but at least it kicked ass and took names.
I think the Wachowski's have been doing too much coke over the last three years.
I don't think that Merovingian's (french dude) dialogue was just for show. The Merovingian family was part of a French dynasty before and were believed to be direct desendents of Christ. In this case the Anti-Christ. His wife's name is Persephone who in greek mythology was sentenced to live in the underworld for 4 months out of the year (winter). They also represent how machines cannot have human emotions like Neo and Trinity. ie..Merovingian giving the cake to the woman and then she has an orgasm and Persephone kissing Neo in hope of feeling the love that he gives Trinity. Persephone also tells Neo how her husband used to be like him. Meaning that Merovingian could have been a previous The One. Others things I have been thinking about is the number 6. There were 5 books of Moses until the New Testament making it number 6. The new covenent so to speak. What do you guys think?
I think that you have it wrong. Neo is the 7th 'the one', since there were 6 predessessors. 7 is a powerful number the Bible, as far as Christianity is concerned, and Judaism to I guess (7 days in the week, God rested on the 7th day, etc) But if you want to elaborate on the number 6, there are 6 points to a star of david. ;-)
Finally saw Reloaded. Hated it. Too much boring psudo-philosophy and not enough cool ideas. The first film was so much better. It may have been a litany of borrowed concepts (the matrix from William Gibson's Neuromancer), plot points (a good 25% of the ideas are lifts from Grant Morrison's Invisibles), and cinematic tricks (the 'time-slice' techniques developed by Michael Gondry / BUF Compagnie = bullet time) but at least it kicked ass and took names.
I think the Wachowski's have been doing too much coke over the last three years.
Don't condemn it until you see Matrix : Revolutions. This was a transitionary movie between Matrx and Matrx 3. Of course some 'second in a trilogy' movies were good too (ie Empire Strikes Back).
I think that you have it wrong. Neo is the 7th 'the one', since there were 6 predessessors. 7 is a powerful number the Bible, as far as Christianity is concerned, and Judaism to I guess (7 days in the week, God rested on the 7th day, etc) But if you want to elaborate on the number 6, there are 6 points to a star of david. ;-)
Quote:
From the Transcription of the architects speech
(Architect) You are here because zion is about to be destroyed.
its every living inhabitant destroyed, its entire existance irradicated.
Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it. and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
ya, i got one for the whole "matrix within a matrix" crowd. instead of tunneling for hours to get to zion to kill them, why not simply pull the plugs?
They are not really trying to 'kill them', they are there to drive Neo to make his decision. Although upon my second viewing of the film, the Architect seemed to be driving Neo to choose to save Trinity, instead of abandon her... One of the reasons that I put something to the 'matrix in a matrix' thing is that there was a rumor a couple years ago that 'the real world was really another matrix and Trinity was an agent'. It was in Inquest, I think. It was just a rumor, but I would think that now that the movie points in the same direction .... Maybe it was a 'planted' rumor though to spark debate.
Agent Smith has it all figured out, and he's trying to get out of the Matrix. Remember his speech to Morpheus in the first movie. Smith hates the "world" in the Matrix. "It's the smell," remember?
And he certainly doesn't like Neo. Neo is the one person that can stop Smith from accomplishing EVERYTHING he wants now that he's independent. Just a thought, now...discuss.
Agent Smith has it all figured out, and he's trying to get out of the Matrix. Remember his speech to Morpheus in the first movie. Smith hates the "world" in the Matrix. "It's the smell," remember?
And he certainly doesn't like Neo. Neo is the one person that can stop Smith from accomplishing EVERYTHING he wants now that he's independent. Just a thought, now...discuss.
So true. Smith has a grudge against Neo, and wants to leave the Matrix. Whatever the 'truth' is about the 'matrix inside a matrix' or whatnot, Smith knows all about it.
Agent Smith has it all figured out, and he's trying to get out of the Matrix. Remember his speech to Morpheus in the first movie. Smith hates the "world" in the Matrix. "It's the smell," remember?
And he certainly doesn't like Neo. Neo is the one person that can stop Smith from accomplishing EVERYTHING he wants now that he's independent. Just a thought, now...discuss.
I don't think that he's trying to get out. He's trying to get rid of humans. They're the smell he's referring to. They're like viruses and he HATES them. If anything, he wants the matrix to end its show. He doesn't want to be free in the human world for sure.
Smith and Neo are complete opposites. Smith wants nothing but the machine world. Living in a Matrix without the humans would be his ideal. Neo is just the opposite. He wants nothing but a human world, at least at the start of the movie. I think he gradually begins to understand the symbiotic relationship between man and machine later in the movie.
They are not really trying to 'kill them', they are there to drive Neo to make his decision. Although upon my second viewing of the film, the Architect seemed to be driving Neo to choose to save Trinity, instead of abandon her... One of the reasons that I put something to the 'matrix in a matrix' thing is that there was a rumor a couple years ago that 'the real world was really another matrix and Trinity was an agent'. It was in Inquest, I think. It was just a rumor, but I would think that now that the movie points in the same direction .... Maybe it was a 'planted' rumor though to spark debate.
what i was saying is that it is obvious that the only way to kill zion is to physically go there. also, trinity cant be an agent, as neo can see the code in the matrix and would have seen her as being a program, like he did w/ the oracle's assistant.
Just got back from seeing the film for a second time. And a few things have come up.
#1. During the fight with the 100s of Smiths (after seeing the oracle), an agent tries to either stop Neo or stop Smith. It isn't clear which one but Smith sticks his hand in him and turns him into another Smith. The questions is why would an Agent intervene with the fight. Is the Agent after Smith or Neo? Mayb the Agent is trying to protect Neo so that he can reload the matrix? It seems like Smith (now free since the end of the first film) has his own agenda that doesn't fit with the program of the matrix. He is a rogue program and deviated from the norm when Neo entered his body at the end of Matrix I. And has now taken over the body of a guy named Bane. BTW bane literally means poison.
#2. The scene where Smith takes over Bane's body and enters Zion.
Right before Smith transports to Zion, Bane's friend puts something into his pocket and when asked if he heard something he says "...this is all that's important." and puts the envelope into his jacket pocket and transports to Zion. What was in that envelope and how can something physical like an envelop taken from the matrix exist exist in the supposed "real world"?
I'm sure I'll think of something else but I just had to get this out.
Just got back from seeing the film for a second time. And a few things have come up.
#1. During the fight with the 100s of Smiths (after seeing the oracle), an agent tries to either stop Neo or stop Smith. It isn't clear which one but Smith sticks his hand in him and turns him into another Smith. The questions is why would an Agent intervene with the fight. Is the Agent after Smith or Neo? Mayb the Agent is trying to protect Neo so that he can reload the matrix? It seems like Smith (now free since the end of the first film) has his own agenda that doesn't fit with the program of the matrix. He is a rogue program and deviated from the norm when Neo entered his body at the end of Matrix I. And has now taken over the body of a guy named Bane. BTW bane literally means poison.
"You!" That's what the agent said when he saw Smith, just before he was cloned into another Smith.
What doesn't quite make sense to me is the beginning scene: "Did everything go as planned?" Smith asked what seemed to be the same agent he changed into himself.
#2. The scene where Smith takes over Bane's body and enters Zion.
Quote:
Right before Smith transports to Zion, Bane's friend puts something into his pocket and when asked if he heard something he says "...this is all that's important." and puts the envelope into his jacket pocket and transports to Zion. What was in that envelope and how can something physical like an envelop taken from the matrix exist exist in the supposed "real world"?
I'm sure I'll think of something else but I just had to get this out.
I thought it was the "sign" that the oracle was ready for neo. It looked like a disc of some sort. Maybe some coordinates for her location or something.
Just got back from seeing the film for a second time. And a few things have come up.
#1. During the fight with the 100s of Smiths (after seeing the oracle), an agent tries to either stop Neo or stop Smith. It isn't clear which one but Smith sticks his hand in him and turns him into another Smith. The questions is why would an Agent intervene with the fight. Is the Agent after Smith or Neo? Mayb the Agent is trying to protect Neo so that he can reload the matrix?
I think that he was after both. The agents try to get rid of rogue programs AND the rogue humans. Even if the matrix needs Neo the agents are written to try and take him out. I doubt that they know the 'whole picture'. They are only there for a certain purpose.
Quote:
It seems like Smith (now free since the end of the first film) has his own agenda that doesn't fit with the program of the matrix. He is a rogue program and deviated from the norm when Neo entered his body at the end of Matrix I. And has now taken over the body of a guy named Bane. BTW bane literally means poison.
I think that Smith deviating from the norm had more to it than just Neo entering his body. The whole Morpheus torture scene is proof of that.
Quote:
#2. The scene where Smith takes over Bane's body and enters Zion.
Right before Smith transports to Zion, Bane's friend puts something into his pocket and when asked if he heard something he says "...this is all that's important." and puts the envelope into his jacket pocket and transports to Zion. What was in that envelope and how can something physical like an envelop taken from the matrix exist exist in the supposed "real world"?
I assume that what was in the envelope was the disk thingy that was handed to Neo in Zion. But the whole thing about the envelope leaving with him is kinda shady though. They were there to get a message from the Oracle if you remember. So when they left the Matrix they had to bring word back to Zion/Morpheus about the Oracle.
A simple thought on the sentinals, Neo and (outside)Smith at the end of the movie.
They are all connected to the matrix. Smith is Smith, Neo can feel the sentinals and the sentinals are machines. They all go off at the same time, at least the sentinals and Neo do. Perhaps, the system failure actually happened? The most logical explanation is that something to the matrix. What, I don't know. All connected died, temporary reboot or shutdown, etc...
Comments
Originally posted by SledgeHammer
This is one theory presented by a friend of mine in an e-mail discussion I've been participating in:
Certainly an interesting idea (though I don't imagine this will actually turn out to be the case).
I doubt the whole 'man made a deal with the machines' thing is true. If you have seen the Animatrix shorts, You will see that there was a machine/human war, which they won. Those shorts were made with consultation from the Wachowski Brothers, and also some of the shorts were incorporated into the movie, which leads me to believe that they have most if not all of the true vision of the Wachowski Brothers.
I think the Wachowski's have been doing too much coke over the last three years.
Originally posted by dolphyjazz
I don't think that Merovingian's (french dude) dialogue was just for show. The Merovingian family was part of a French dynasty before and were believed to be direct desendents of Christ. In this case the Anti-Christ. His wife's name is Persephone who in greek mythology was sentenced to live in the underworld for 4 months out of the year (winter). They also represent how machines cannot have human emotions like Neo and Trinity. ie..Merovingian giving the cake to the woman and then she has an orgasm and Persephone kissing Neo in hope of feeling the love that he gives Trinity. Persephone also tells Neo how her husband used to be like him. Meaning that Merovingian could have been a previous The One. Others things I have been thinking about is the number 6. There were 5 books of Moses until the New Testament making it number 6. The new covenent so to speak. What do you guys think?
I think that you have it wrong. Neo is the 7th 'the one', since there were 6 predessessors. 7 is a powerful number the Bible, as far as Christianity is concerned, and Judaism to I guess (7 days in the week, God rested on the 7th day, etc) But if you want to elaborate on the number 6, there are 6 points to a star of david. ;-)
Originally posted by kneelbeforezod
Finally saw Reloaded. Hated it. Too much boring psudo-philosophy and not enough cool ideas. The first film was so much better. It may have been a litany of borrowed concepts (the matrix from William Gibson's Neuromancer), plot points (a good 25% of the ideas are lifts from Grant Morrison's Invisibles), and cinematic tricks (the 'time-slice' techniques developed by Michael Gondry / BUF Compagnie = bullet time) but at least it kicked ass and took names.
I think the Wachowski's have been doing too much coke over the last three years.
Don't condemn it until you see Matrix : Revolutions. This was a transitionary movie between Matrx and Matrx 3. Of course some 'second in a trilogy' movies were good too (ie Empire Strikes Back).
Originally posted by pyr3
I think that you have it wrong. Neo is the 7th 'the one', since there were 6 predessessors. 7 is a powerful number the Bible, as far as Christianity is concerned, and Judaism to I guess (7 days in the week, God rested on the 7th day, etc) But if you want to elaborate on the number 6, there are 6 points to a star of david. ;-)
From the Transcription of the architects speech
(Architect) You are here because zion is about to be destroyed.
its every living inhabitant destroyed, its entire existance irradicated.
Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it. and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
Any questions?
Originally posted by ThunderPoit
ya, i got one for the whole "matrix within a matrix" crowd. instead of tunneling for hours to get to zion to kill them, why not simply pull the plugs?
Good one.
Originally posted by Wrong Robust
Any questions?
My bad. Thanks for catching that. :-)
Originally posted by ThunderPoit
ya, i got one for the whole "matrix within a matrix" crowd. instead of tunneling for hours to get to zion to kill them, why not simply pull the plugs?
They are not really trying to 'kill them', they are there to drive Neo to make his decision. Although upon my second viewing of the film, the Architect seemed to be driving Neo to choose to save Trinity, instead of abandon her... One of the reasons that I put something to the 'matrix in a matrix' thing is that there was a rumor a couple years ago that 'the real world was really another matrix and Trinity was an agent'. It was in Inquest, I think. It was just a rumor, but I would think that now that the movie points in the same direction .... Maybe it was a 'planted' rumor though to spark debate.
And he certainly doesn't like Neo. Neo is the one person that can stop Smith from accomplishing EVERYTHING he wants now that he's independent. Just a thought, now...discuss.
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Agent Smith has it all figured out, and he's trying to get out of the Matrix. Remember his speech to Morpheus in the first movie. Smith hates the "world" in the Matrix. "It's the smell," remember?
And he certainly doesn't like Neo. Neo is the one person that can stop Smith from accomplishing EVERYTHING he wants now that he's independent. Just a thought, now...discuss.
So true. Smith has a grudge against Neo, and wants to leave the Matrix. Whatever the 'truth' is about the 'matrix inside a matrix' or whatnot, Smith knows all about it.
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Agent Smith has it all figured out, and he's trying to get out of the Matrix. Remember his speech to Morpheus in the first movie. Smith hates the "world" in the Matrix. "It's the smell," remember?
And he certainly doesn't like Neo. Neo is the one person that can stop Smith from accomplishing EVERYTHING he wants now that he's independent. Just a thought, now...discuss.
I don't think that he's trying to get out. He's trying to get rid of humans. They're the smell he's referring to. They're like viruses and he HATES them. If anything, he wants the matrix to end its show. He doesn't want to be free in the human world for sure.
Smith and Neo are complete opposites. Smith wants nothing but the machine world. Living in a Matrix without the humans would be his ideal. Neo is just the opposite. He wants nothing but a human world, at least at the start of the movie. I think he gradually begins to understand the symbiotic relationship between man and machine later in the movie.
Originally posted by pyr3
They are not really trying to 'kill them', they are there to drive Neo to make his decision. Although upon my second viewing of the film, the Architect seemed to be driving Neo to choose to save Trinity, instead of abandon her... One of the reasons that I put something to the 'matrix in a matrix' thing is that there was a rumor a couple years ago that 'the real world was really another matrix and Trinity was an agent'. It was in Inquest, I think. It was just a rumor, but I would think that now that the movie points in the same direction .... Maybe it was a 'planted' rumor though to spark debate.
what i was saying is that it is obvious that the only way to kill zion is to physically go there. also, trinity cant be an agent, as neo can see the code in the matrix and would have seen her as being a program, like he did w/ the oracle's assistant.
#1. During the fight with the 100s of Smiths (after seeing the oracle), an agent tries to either stop Neo or stop Smith. It isn't clear which one but Smith sticks his hand in him and turns him into another Smith. The questions is why would an Agent intervene with the fight. Is the Agent after Smith or Neo? Mayb the Agent is trying to protect Neo so that he can reload the matrix? It seems like Smith (now free since the end of the first film) has his own agenda that doesn't fit with the program of the matrix. He is a rogue program and deviated from the norm when Neo entered his body at the end of Matrix I. And has now taken over the body of a guy named Bane. BTW bane literally means poison.
#2. The scene where Smith takes over Bane's body and enters Zion.
Right before Smith transports to Zion, Bane's friend puts something into his pocket and when asked if he heard something he says "...this is all that's important." and puts the envelope into his jacket pocket and transports to Zion. What was in that envelope and how can something physical like an envelop taken from the matrix exist exist in the supposed "real world"?
I'm sure I'll think of something else but I just had to get this out.
Originally posted by dolphyjazz
Just got back from seeing the film for a second time. And a few things have come up.
#1. During the fight with the 100s of Smiths (after seeing the oracle), an agent tries to either stop Neo or stop Smith. It isn't clear which one but Smith sticks his hand in him and turns him into another Smith. The questions is why would an Agent intervene with the fight. Is the Agent after Smith or Neo? Mayb the Agent is trying to protect Neo so that he can reload the matrix? It seems like Smith (now free since the end of the first film) has his own agenda that doesn't fit with the program of the matrix. He is a rogue program and deviated from the norm when Neo entered his body at the end of Matrix I. And has now taken over the body of a guy named Bane. BTW bane literally means poison.
"You!" That's what the agent said when he saw Smith, just before he was cloned into another Smith.
What doesn't quite make sense to me is the beginning scene: "Did everything go as planned?" Smith asked what seemed to be the same agent he changed into himself.
#2. The scene where Smith takes over Bane's body and enters Zion.
Right before Smith transports to Zion, Bane's friend puts something into his pocket and when asked if he heard something he says "...this is all that's important." and puts the envelope into his jacket pocket and transports to Zion. What was in that envelope and how can something physical like an envelop taken from the matrix exist exist in the supposed "real world"?
I'm sure I'll think of something else but I just had to get this out.
I thought it was the "sign" that the oracle was ready for neo. It looked like a disc of some sort. Maybe some coordinates for her location or something.
Originally posted by dolphyjazz
Just got back from seeing the film for a second time. And a few things have come up.
#1. During the fight with the 100s of Smiths (after seeing the oracle), an agent tries to either stop Neo or stop Smith. It isn't clear which one but Smith sticks his hand in him and turns him into another Smith. The questions is why would an Agent intervene with the fight. Is the Agent after Smith or Neo? Mayb the Agent is trying to protect Neo so that he can reload the matrix?
I think that he was after both. The agents try to get rid of rogue programs AND the rogue humans. Even if the matrix needs Neo the agents are written to try and take him out. I doubt that they know the 'whole picture'. They are only there for a certain purpose.
It seems like Smith (now free since the end of the first film) has his own agenda that doesn't fit with the program of the matrix. He is a rogue program and deviated from the norm when Neo entered his body at the end of Matrix I. And has now taken over the body of a guy named Bane. BTW bane literally means poison.
I think that Smith deviating from the norm had more to it than just Neo entering his body. The whole Morpheus torture scene is proof of that.
#2. The scene where Smith takes over Bane's body and enters Zion.
Right before Smith transports to Zion, Bane's friend puts something into his pocket and when asked if he heard something he says "...this is all that's important." and puts the envelope into his jacket pocket and transports to Zion. What was in that envelope and how can something physical like an envelop taken from the matrix exist exist in the supposed "real world"?
I assume that what was in the envelope was the disk thingy that was handed to Neo in Zion. But the whole thing about the envelope leaving with him is kinda shady though. They were there to get a message from the Oracle if you remember. So when they left the Matrix they had to bring word back to Zion/Morpheus about the Oracle.
They are all connected to the matrix. Smith is Smith, Neo can feel the sentinals and the sentinals are machines. They all go off at the same time, at least the sentinals and Neo do. Perhaps, the system failure actually happened? The most logical explanation is that something to the matrix. What, I don't know. All connected died, temporary reboot or shutdown, etc...