I think you have it all right, as far as my understanding goes anyway, except the part about the reboot. The Architect doesn't mention restarting the Matrix, only the reinsertion of the code carried by the One. He does say he prefers to count 'verions' by the number of Ones there have been, but that doesn't equate necessarily to retstarting the Matrix. I think what is restarted is the cycle of Zion. Zion contains freed humans and free born humans. They need to be periodically wiped out because as they become a large group they become a potential threat in the real world where they can't be controlled to the extent they are in the machine. As the grow in number and zeal, they increase even faster as the free minds at a faster rate and more and more children are born free. So, once the One is released and set on his path to the Source, then Zion is wiped out and the One, after reinserting his code, selects a small group of humans in the Matrix to free and retarts Zion again and instructs them in the myth of the One, so that they zealously set about to freeing the 'problem' minds that can create problems within the Matrix.
now that i think about it, the creator probably didn't mention a real system restart. but, i would think he would want to atleast tweak the code, to try and get rid of this 'one' problem. difficult as it might be, he's got to try. From his perspective, this matrix is just `one` failure after another.
any other programmers consider writing one of these 'matrix' type programs themself? As I watched, I was plotting out how I would write it. i probably won't start (since it could mean enslaving the entire human race), but it would be cool to make a mini-matrix, and cripple its physical power so it couldn't be a real threat. i've got to figure out how to make programs intelligent enough to create their own programs though, thats my stumbling block. maybe its time to start some evo-programming.
Transcript from "Enter The Matrix" video game, Niobe and the Oracle conversation:
ORACLE: Niobe.....
NIOBE: Do I know you?
ORACLE: You know me, though you just may not recognize me.
NIOBE: Are you telling me that you are the Oracle?
ORACLE: I know this may not be easy for any of you, change never is. I wish the face you remember was the face I was still wearing, but that face is gone.
NIOBE: If you are the Oracle, tell me if I believe you are.
ORACLE: You don't right now, but you will.
NIOBE: Are you going to tell me something to make me believe you?
ORACLE: Come on Niobe, you know I can't do that.
N: Why not?
O: Because I cannot make you do anything.
N: At least you sound the same.
O: As I said, you may not recognize the face, but who and what I am underneath remains the same.
N: Can I ask what happened?
O: The Merovingian warned me, that If I made a certain choice it would cost me. He is, among other things, a man of his word.
N: What was the choice?
O: The same one you yourself will have to make: The choice to help Neo or not.
N: Then Neo is still alive?
O: Yes, he touched the source and seperated his mind from his body. Now he lies trapped in a place between your world and ours.
N: Can we free him?
O: Trinity can, but she will have to fight her way through hell to do it.
N: Can I help?
O: That's why I called you. I cannot tell you what is going to happen. All I can do is hope that if given the chance, you will find the courage to do what you can.
N: You once told me you knew everything you needed to.
O: I do. I knew everything from the begining of this path to the end.
N: I don't understand.
O: Even I can't see beyond the end.
N: The end? Are you trying to tell me the world is going to end?
O: Yes. If we cannot save it, it will end.
N: You mean Neo.
O: I mean we. The path of the one is made by the many. I have a role to play just as you have yours.
Looks like Neo is trapped in The Matrix (which explains his coma and why in the Reloaded/Revolutions tailer Trinity demands that Neo is handed over). Still doesn't explain how he got there from The Real World or stopped the sentinels. Methinks that the aura of mystery is a cunning marketing ploy
Occam's razor says that we are dealing with matrix in a matrix, or side by side matrices (perhaps connected by ssh lol). Any other explanations for the smith infection, neo stopping bugs, and general mysticism (kiss people to bring them back to life for example) just make no sense in a rational world.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. You obviously didn't bother to read anything in this thread. You obviously didn't think too hard about this either. The kiss didn't bring her back to life. Neo was doing something with his hand inside her, while he was kissing her. Remember, her body only stopped because her mind stopped. He revivied her mind. Neo came back from the dead too, if you remember. I'm thinking that there maybe be something to both of these that will be explained in more detail in the next movie though. And also, the 'matrix in a matrix' theory doesn't explain bringing Trinity back to life, unless you want to claim that Trinity is really a program/agent/etc and that's off the deep end. (If trinity died in two layers of matrix her mind would still be dead. Her mind believes that her mind believes that the 'second matrix' is real. So doesn't matter where her mind dies, it still dies.)
The Smith infection is easy to explain. Smith downloaded himself into that dude's brain. When Smith took over that guy in the matrix,the guy ('Bane')'s brainwave data was overwritten with Smith's program algorithms. I don't see why everyone has a problem with this...
The only thing that is unexplained is Neo stopping the squidies. I could see if maybe there was some outside force that stopped them and made it seem like he did and we find that out next movie. It wasn't EMP though as someone suggested earlier.
The only thing that is unexplained is Neo stopping the squidies. I could see if maybe there was some outside force that stopped them and made it seem like he did and we find that out next movie. It wasn't EMP though as someone suggested earlier.
Dammit, pyr3, did you ignore the transcript two replies before? I think this has a lot to do with how Neo stopped the squiddies:
Nyobi: Then Neo is still alive?
Oracle: Yes, he touched the source and seperated his mind from his body. Now he lies trapped in a place between your world and ours.
Nyobi: Can we free him?
Oracle: Trinity can, but she will have to fight her way through hell to do it.
So, somehow Neo has reached a higher level than any other One before him. But, of course, the Oracle forsaw this and knew this was gonna happen, and probably did the Architect. Now all we need to do is watch Revolutions and find out why what happened happened.
The second Matrix is not perfect as you say it is. Only 99% of humans accept their reality. There is 1% that don't. This is because giving humans the 'choice' to accept their reality of not was the only way to make the matrix work. Granted, this choice is only on a sub-conscious level. Therefore they have the option to reject instead of accept, though only 1% do. There are no definite answers to questions like 'why not just kill those that don't accept and liquify their bodies to be fed back to the rest' ... these are all questions we are debating.
They need to better explain why this free will is necessary to put into the Matrix, though.
Rephrased, What was wrong with the first, perfect, Matrix(ces) that caused a problem? Why not just hook the people up, restrain them, and play dentist office music? Why a matrix at all for that matter? Why not just drug 'em all up and restrain them?
Even though I don't quite think they've explained the premise, I do like it. In most philosophies and religions, the deeeper truth of our lives is something desirable - like heaven. Life sucks, but the real meaning of life is to be in the image of God.
But in The Matrix story, although life (i.e., that Matrix) is great, the deeper truth is awful, that we're really slaves. That's a nice twist. I suppose it's Hobbesian or existentialist, vs. Platonic or Christian. But I don't remember my college philosophy well enough to know for sure.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. You obviously didn't bother to read anything in this thread. You obviously didn't think too hard about this either. The kiss didn't bring her back to life. Neo was doing something with his hand inside her, while he was kissing her. Remember, her body only stopped because her mind stopped. He revivied her mind. Neo came back from the dead too, if you remember. I'm thinking that there maybe be something to both of these that will be explained in more detail in the next movie though. And also, the 'matrix in a matrix' theory doesn't explain bringing Trinity back to life, unless you want to claim that Trinity is really a program/agent/etc and that's off the deep end. (If trinity died in two layers of matrix her mind would still be dead. Her mind believes that her mind believes that the 'second matrix' is real. So doesn't matter where her mind dies, it still dies.)
I think he was referring to Neo coming back to life. In "The Matrix" Neo dies, his heart monitor goes flatline...
Morpheus: Can't be
[cut to Matrix]
Smith: Check him
Agent: [checks pulse] He's gone
Smith Well, goodbye Mr. Anderson
[Cut to Neb.]
Trinity: Neo, I'm not afraid anymore. The Oracle told me that I would fall in love and that that man, the man that I loved would be The One. So you see, you can't be dead. You can't be, because I love you. You hear me? I love you. [She kisses him, his heart monitor starts beeping again, and he takes a deep breath]
In this scene, it does appear that her kiss revives him (
Quote:
Originally posted by failedmathematician
kiss people to bring them back to life for example
They need to better explain why this free will is necessary to put into the Matrix, though.
Rephrased, What was wrong with the first, perfect, Matrix(ces) that caused a problem? Why not just hook the people up, restrain them, and play dentist office music? Why a matrix at all for that matter? Why not just drug 'em all up and restrain them?
Dammit, pyr3, did you ignore the transcript two replies before? I think this has a lot to do with how Neo stopped the squiddies:
Nyobi: Then Neo is still alive?
Oracle: Yes, he touched the source and seperated his mind from his body. Now he lies trapped in a place between your world and ours.
Nyobi: Can we free him?
Oracle: Trinity can, but she will have to fight her way through hell to do it.
So, somehow Neo has reached a higher level than any other One before him. But, of course, the Oracle forsaw this and knew this was gonna happen, and probably did the Architect. Now all we need to do is watch Revolutions and find out why what happened happened.
Higher plane or not. It doesn't explain how touching the source and pulling himself into a world between reality and the matrix gives him the ability to physically stop the squidies in their tracks. They were coming right for him and he stopped them in mid-flight and then dismantled them. If he had just dismantled them I could think of a lot more explanations, but to be able to physically stop them....
Maybe tapping into the core of the Matrix upgraded the firmware of the machinery in Neo's head, activating an unknown airport card which allows him to control the machines remotely. If so, that was the fastest command-option-esc force quit I've ever seen!
Comments
Originally posted by alcimedes
any mainstream movie that spawns 6 pages of thread trying to figure out what the hell is going on, did something wrong.
Unless of course the directors ended on a cliffhanger.
Originally posted by Tulkas
I think you have it all right, as far as my understanding goes anyway, except the part about the reboot. The Architect doesn't mention restarting the Matrix, only the reinsertion of the code carried by the One. He does say he prefers to count 'verions' by the number of Ones there have been, but that doesn't equate necessarily to retstarting the Matrix. I think what is restarted is the cycle of Zion. Zion contains freed humans and free born humans. They need to be periodically wiped out because as they become a large group they become a potential threat in the real world where they can't be controlled to the extent they are in the machine. As the grow in number and zeal, they increase even faster as the free minds at a faster rate and more and more children are born free. So, once the One is released and set on his path to the Source, then Zion is wiped out and the One, after reinserting his code, selects a small group of humans in the Matrix to free and retarts Zion again and instructs them in the myth of the One, so that they zealously set about to freeing the 'problem' minds that can create problems within the Matrix.
now that i think about it, the creator probably didn't mention a real system restart. but, i would think he would want to atleast tweak the code, to try and get rid of this 'one' problem. difficult as it might be, he's got to try. From his perspective, this matrix is just `one` failure after another.
any other programmers consider writing one of these 'matrix' type programs themself? As I watched, I was plotting out how I would write it. i probably won't start (since it could mean enslaving the entire human race), but it would be cool to make a mini-matrix, and cripple its physical power so it couldn't be a real threat. i've got to figure out how to make programs intelligent enough to create their own programs though, thats my stumbling block. maybe its time to start some evo-programming.
Transcript from "Enter The Matrix" video game, Niobe and the Oracle conversation:
ORACLE: Niobe.....
NIOBE: Do I know you?
ORACLE: You know me, though you just may not recognize me.
NIOBE: Are you telling me that you are the Oracle?
ORACLE: I know this may not be easy for any of you, change never is. I wish the face you remember was the face I was still wearing, but that face is gone.
NIOBE: If you are the Oracle, tell me if I believe you are.
ORACLE: You don't right now, but you will.
NIOBE: Are you going to tell me something to make me believe you?
ORACLE: Come on Niobe, you know I can't do that.
N: Why not?
O: Because I cannot make you do anything.
N: At least you sound the same.
O: As I said, you may not recognize the face, but who and what I am underneath remains the same.
N: Can I ask what happened?
O: The Merovingian warned me, that If I made a certain choice it would cost me. He is, among other things, a man of his word.
N: What was the choice?
O: The same one you yourself will have to make: The choice to help Neo or not.
N: Then Neo is still alive?
O: Yes, he touched the source and seperated his mind from his body. Now he lies trapped in a place between your world and ours.
N: Can we free him?
O: Trinity can, but she will have to fight her way through hell to do it.
N: Can I help?
O: That's why I called you. I cannot tell you what is going to happen. All I can do is hope that if given the chance, you will find the courage to do what you can.
N: You once told me you knew everything you needed to.
O: I do. I knew everything from the begining of this path to the end.
N: I don't understand.
O: Even I can't see beyond the end.
N: The end? Are you trying to tell me the world is going to end?
O: Yes. If we cannot save it, it will end.
N: You mean Neo.
O: I mean we. The path of the one is made by the many. I have a role to play just as you have yours.
Thoughts?
Originally posted by failedmathematician
Occam's razor says that we are dealing with matrix in a matrix, or side by side matrices (perhaps connected by ssh lol). Any other explanations for the smith infection, neo stopping bugs, and general mysticism (kiss people to bring them back to life for example) just make no sense in a rational world.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. You obviously didn't bother to read anything in this thread. You obviously didn't think too hard about this either. The kiss didn't bring her back to life. Neo was doing something with his hand inside her, while he was kissing her. Remember, her body only stopped because her mind stopped. He revivied her mind. Neo came back from the dead too, if you remember. I'm thinking that there maybe be something to both of these that will be explained in more detail in the next movie though. And also, the 'matrix in a matrix' theory doesn't explain bringing Trinity back to life, unless you want to claim that Trinity is really a program/agent/etc and that's off the deep end. (If trinity died in two layers of matrix her mind would still be dead. Her mind believes that her mind believes that the 'second matrix' is real. So doesn't matter where her mind dies, it still dies.)
The Smith infection is easy to explain. Smith downloaded himself into that dude's brain. When Smith took over that guy in the matrix,the guy ('Bane')'s brainwave data was overwritten with Smith's program algorithms. I don't see why everyone has a problem with this...
The only thing that is unexplained is Neo stopping the squidies. I could see if maybe there was some outside force that stopped them and made it seem like he did and we find that out next movie. It wasn't EMP though as someone suggested earlier.
Originally posted by pyr3
The only thing that is unexplained is Neo stopping the squidies. I could see if maybe there was some outside force that stopped them and made it seem like he did and we find that out next movie. It wasn't EMP though as someone suggested earlier.
Dammit, pyr3, did you ignore the transcript two replies before? I think this has a lot to do with how Neo stopped the squiddies:
Nyobi: Then Neo is still alive?
Oracle: Yes, he touched the source and seperated his mind from his body. Now he lies trapped in a place between your world and ours.
Nyobi: Can we free him?
Oracle: Trinity can, but she will have to fight her way through hell to do it.
So, somehow Neo has reached a higher level than any other One before him. But, of course, the Oracle forsaw this and knew this was gonna happen, and probably did the Architect. Now all we need to do is watch Revolutions and find out why what happened happened.
Originally posted by pyr3
The second Matrix is not perfect as you say it is. Only 99% of humans accept their reality. There is 1% that don't. This is because giving humans the 'choice' to accept their reality of not was the only way to make the matrix work. Granted, this choice is only on a sub-conscious level. Therefore they have the option to reject instead of accept, though only 1% do. There are no definite answers to questions like 'why not just kill those that don't accept and liquify their bodies to be fed back to the rest' ... these are all questions we are debating.
They need to better explain why this free will is necessary to put into the Matrix, though.
Rephrased, What was wrong with the first, perfect, Matrix(ces) that caused a problem? Why not just hook the people up, restrain them, and play dentist office music? Why a matrix at all for that matter? Why not just drug 'em all up and restrain them?
Even though I don't quite think they've explained the premise, I do like it. In most philosophies and religions, the deeeper truth of our lives is something desirable - like heaven. Life sucks, but the real meaning of life is to be in the image of God.
But in The Matrix story, although life (i.e., that Matrix) is great, the deeper truth is awful, that we're really slaves. That's a nice twist. I suppose it's Hobbesian or existentialist, vs. Platonic or Christian. But I don't remember my college philosophy well enough to know for sure.
Originally posted by pyr3
Whoa, whoa, whoa. You obviously didn't bother to read anything in this thread. You obviously didn't think too hard about this either. The kiss didn't bring her back to life. Neo was doing something with his hand inside her, while he was kissing her. Remember, her body only stopped because her mind stopped. He revivied her mind. Neo came back from the dead too, if you remember. I'm thinking that there maybe be something to both of these that will be explained in more detail in the next movie though. And also, the 'matrix in a matrix' theory doesn't explain bringing Trinity back to life, unless you want to claim that Trinity is really a program/agent/etc and that's off the deep end. (If trinity died in two layers of matrix her mind would still be dead. Her mind believes that her mind believes that the 'second matrix' is real. So doesn't matter where her mind dies, it still dies.)
I think he was referring to Neo coming back to life. In "The Matrix" Neo dies, his heart monitor goes flatline...
Morpheus: Can't be
[cut to Matrix]
Smith: Check him
Agent: [checks pulse] He's gone
Smith Well, goodbye Mr. Anderson
[Cut to Neb.]
Trinity: Neo, I'm not afraid anymore. The Oracle told me that I would fall in love and that that man, the man that I loved would be The One. So you see, you can't be dead. You can't be, because I love you. You hear me? I love you. [She kisses him, his heart monitor starts beeping again, and he takes a deep breath]
In this scene, it does appear that her kiss revives him (
Originally posted by failedmathematician
kiss people to bring them back to life for example
)
They need to better explain why this free will is necessary to put into the Matrix, though.
Rephrased, What was wrong with the first, perfect, Matrix(ces) that caused a problem? Why not just hook the people up, restrain them, and play dentist office music? Why a matrix at all for that matter? Why not just drug 'em all up and restrain them?
You obviously aren't a farmer.
Originally posted by Gambit
Dammit, pyr3, did you ignore the transcript two replies before? I think this has a lot to do with how Neo stopped the squiddies:
Nyobi: Then Neo is still alive?
Oracle: Yes, he touched the source and seperated his mind from his body. Now he lies trapped in a place between your world and ours.
Nyobi: Can we free him?
Oracle: Trinity can, but she will have to fight her way through hell to do it.
So, somehow Neo has reached a higher level than any other One before him. But, of course, the Oracle forsaw this and knew this was gonna happen, and probably did the Architect. Now all we need to do is watch Revolutions and find out why what happened happened.
Higher plane or not. It doesn't explain how touching the source and pulling himself into a world between reality and the matrix gives him the ability to physically stop the squidies in their tracks. They were coming right for him and he stopped them in mid-flight and then dismantled them. If he had just dismantled them I could think of a lot more explanations, but to be able to physically stop them....