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  • Reply 181 of 189
    futuremacfuturemac Posts: 242member
    anybody purchasing with the student developers discount? what courses are required to join?
  • Reply 182 of 189
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by THT

    For those of you who don't know, the "Jean Marie Hulot" during the iChat AV demo wasn't some stranger off the street or some anonymous friend of Steve Jobs. Jean Marie Hulot is essentially the father of Interface Builder. He wrote the original Interface Builder for NEXTSTEP in the 1980s. Don't know what his role in Apple is though, if any, but it was nice to see him pop up.



    Nice info THT! I appreciate details like that.
  • Reply 183 of 189
    pesipesi Posts: 424member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by THT

    So there will be both 32 bit and 64 bit versions? The 32 bit versions would be for all machines except for the PMG5. I found it strange that there has been absolutely no direct mention that Panther is 64 bit. There was mention of turning 32 bit apps into 64 bit apps, so indirectly, Panther has to have a 64 bit version...



    no.



    32bit and 64bit versions of an app can exist in the same file.



    think fat-binaries from the 68k-ppc transition.



    or like today, with an app like iTunes that can work on both G3 and G4 systems just the same, but has acceleration built in for altivec.
  • Reply 184 of 189
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Reactions:



    Panther: Yowza. Folks, we don't know everything that's going to be in there yet, but it's much faster, the Quartz Window Manager is no longer locked into a single-user paradigm (that's why OS X was so late to the party with "fast user switching"), Finder looks great, and especially the Open/Save dialog boxes look great, Xcode... well, wow. Audio/video conferencing looks just about effortless, and system-wide faxing is a Godsend for the many people who do still use faxes (Steve needs to get out more).



    The G5: OK, so they had to make a number of changes in the name of keeping the thing cool and quiet, and that means that it's not as cluttered as the G4 was with all HDD bays and both optical drive bays filled. So there's one less PCI slot: There's also FW800, USB2.0, and toslink, which moot several reasons for PCI cards. Remember also that Apple has killer audio support, including support for an arbitrary number of channels, in software. The missing link was some form of digital out, and they've got two now (FW and toslink). Good stuff. If Gerhard is to be believed, audio DSP and digital I/O cards are basically pointless now.



    As for the design, it's not as immediately striking as El Capitan, but it's clean and very Apple. I'll have to see it in person to really judge it, but I'll give it a thumbs up.



    The low end machine does appear to be nerfed. Well, at least they're consistent, and at least you can get the machine down around the old low end price by plucking out the SuperDrive. Either the 970 is more expensive than predicted, or the board and case are expensive enough that even a relatively inexpensive CPU becomes burdensome (remember that price usually scales superlinearly with clock speed). All the same, I anticipate that the single-CPU machines are still impressive performers: The Wolfram Research guy strongly implied that Mathematica is not MP-aware ("you can use the other processor to run Word or something" - to paraphrase), and the closeup of the CPU meters in the Logic demo revealed that that app was leaning heavily on one CPU, and only occasionally borrowing the other. So, incredibly, there weren't many real-world demos that appeared to really use the full power of the duallie! This is good news for people whose budgets are kinder to the less expensive machines.



    Best moment: Steve admitting that he had no idea what branch prediction was.
  • Reply 185 of 189
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    Okay, now for hardware reactions!



    I'll have to summarize...it is late.



    The G5....



    The system architecture and the fact that IBM haa put $3billion in the fab plant is all I really needed to hear.



    This is the FIRST big jump and it will of course cost too much and THAT will be most obvious on the low end. So chill.



    The rest of it is so over-engineered, that I can see the up-grade path that WILL make significant strides toward market share in about a year. By then I predict Apple will be able to actually begin consistently pricing computers below similar PC configurations.



    THe FUTURE is BRIGHT The present is just the dawn.
  • Reply 186 of 189
    thttht Posts: 5,421member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by pesi

    no.



    32bit and 64bit versions of an app can exist in the same file.



    think fat-binaries from the 68k-ppc transition.



    or like today, with an app like iTunes that can work on both G3 and G4 systems just the same, but has acceleration built in for altivec.




    That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about what did Apple do to make Jaguar 10.2.7 support 8 GB RAM, which begs the question, what parts of Panther is 64 bit. Something has to be done to the Mach memory model obviously. It could also mean that that is the only thing that will be changed in Panther as well.
  • Reply 187 of 189
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by THT

    That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about what did Apple do to make Jaguar 10.2.7 support 8 GB RAM, which begs the question, what parts of Panther is 64 bit. Something has to be done to the Mach memory model obviously. It could also mean that that is the only thing that will be changed in Panther as well.



    Peeve: It doesn't "beg the question." That's a name for a logical fallacy.



    All Apple would have had to do is allow the kernel to take advantage of the >32 bit addressing in the 970 (and, for that matter, in the G4...). Processes can still only see 4GB of virtual memory (because pointers are still 32 bit), but the kernel can see all of real RAM.



    It's a good interim solution on the way to full 64-bit support in Panther. Really, when was the last time real RAM could eclipse virtual memory?
  • Reply 188 of 189
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    my reaction:



    It felt good to see the G5. I realize the bake-offs and benchmarks are cooked but it doesn't matter, because as long as Apple is in the ballpark with a real roadmap for the future this is fantastic.



    Uncertainty about future chips? Gone for at least another year.



    All Panther, iChatAV etc... really showed me was that Apple is pushing OSX forward, which is all it needs to do. Sadly enough the coolest thing about Panther to me is the superfast Preview for .pdf files. I loved that. The beefed-up Finder is also great.



    I don't give a crap from brushed metal v. aqua. I take the pinstripes away with a theme and it doesn't matter.



    The question isn't "if?" anymore, it's "when?". And "when?" is a much better question to be asking.



    Just win, baby. Just win.
  • Reply 189 of 189
    mcqmcq Posts: 1,543member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by futuremac

    anybody purchasing with the student developers discount? what courses are required to join?



    I think *technically* any college student enrolled full-time can get the student ADC hardware discount if you're a student ADC member, though if you use the discount it is under the expectation that you will be making an attempt at trying to learn how write programs for the Mac.



    I may use my student ADC dev discount on a G5 eventually, but not right now.
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