I'm just watching the keynote, and what the Adobe guy said was that the new Power Macs are more than twice as fast as any machine they've seen - not any Mac.
That's not what he (Bruce Chizen) says on the video: "it's up to two times as fast as the previous performance we've experienced on the Macintosh."
I'm not really saying that means much, but as a bare statement it doesn't seem that impressive (particularly as he also states that Adobe has been working closely with Apple on Photoshop.
Bruce Chizen has little interest in helping Apple out. He does this for good PR with his users. Despite the fact that he doesn't want to support Macs, he can at least damn with faint praise.
1. Finder.... apparently moving the toolbar from the top to the left pane makes the finder "new" and "user centric". The graphite scheme is ugly. It's not up to par with what I have come to expect from Apple's software designers and now they are spreading it throughout the OS and software titles. Other than that, the finder still seems to be flawed in many of the ays he said the new one fixes. I don't get it
2. not much else to justify 129 bucks to me yet.... no awe dropping features with the exception of expose which is a godsend. of course im sure under the hood its a lot stronger but feature wise its lacking so far.
iSight and iChat AV
150 dollars for this single purpose camera is ridiculous. I don't care if it captures pristine quality video. 150 dollars is way too steep, especially considering you really need TWO of them to actually use iChat AV the way its suppose to. It looks like it works well and is very cool, but the price point they settled on is assinine for all but the money is no issue mac users.
PowerMac G5
uhg....
1. Reduced hard drive bays from 4 (supported) to 2.
2. Reduced PCI slots from 4 to 3
3. Reduced external drive bays from 2 to 1
4. They got rid of the door. What the hell? It was a signature part and advantage of Apple's towers. And now its gone.
Apple greatly reduced expansion options all while RAISING the price. Not only that, they raised the entry level model 500 dollars. As if that wasnt bad enough, the entry level model is NEUTERED... no PCI-X, no DDR-400, no 8GB RAM max. The standard video card situation is not impressive considering the price of these machines... and the only difference between the high end and mid range is an additional processor yet the price increases 600 dollars.
Most of all, the entry price point for a user who wants an upgradable graphic card and/or PCI slot(s) and a choice of displays shot up today and Apple offers no suitable "prosumer" option.
1. Finder.... apparently moving the toolbar from the top to the left pane makes the finder "new" and "user centric". The graphite scheme is ugly. It's not up to par with what I have come to expect from Apple's software designers and now they are spreading it throughout the OS and software titles. Other than that, the finder still seems to be flawed in many of the ays he said the new one fixes. I don't get it
It goes back to this whole thing with X - "classic" is a perfection of simplicity. Now Apple is trying to make perfection of complexity. Rather than trying to build on "classic" they want to throw the baby out with the bath water - "no, that's not right, let's do something new".
I think we've already seen some of this in X, and I think we're going to keep on seeing it for a while yet. This whole brushed metal thing is so yucky.
That's not what he (Bruce Chizen) says on the video: "it's up to two times as fast as the previous performance we've experienced on the Macintosh."
I'm not really saying that means much, but as a bare statement it doesn't seem that impressive (particularly as he also states that Adobe has been working closely with Apple on Photoshop.
But they say (and show) something else in the keynote.
Bruce Chizen has little interest in helping Apple out. He does this for good PR with his users. Despite the fact that he doesn't want to support Macs, he can at least damn with faint praise.
150 dollars for this single purpose camera is ridiculous. I don't care if it captures pristine quality video. 150 dollars is way too steep, especially considering you really need TWO of them to actually use iChat AV the way its suppose to. It looks like it works well and is very cool, but the price point they settled on is assinine for all but the money is no issue mac users.
The iSight camera is priced pretty good actually. Logitech cameras, decent ones, cost $99, and they are the generic USB variety. This is a MUCH nicer camera, and it costs $149. Its a deal.
But they say (and show) something else in the keynote.
I think it's not Bruce Chizen in the key note. Also the video is obviously scripted and edited, so more likely to be "right" than someone live on stage.
It's Apple's video, if it really was twice as fast as anything else they would have gotten him to say so, no?
The iSight camera is priced pretty good actually. Logitech cameras, decent ones, cost $99, and they are the generic USB variety. This is a MUCH nicer camera, and it costs $149. Its a deal.
The 1.6Ghz G5 for $2k is stupid. Its braindead.
The 2Ghz Dual G5 is a steal of a deal.
-M
perhaps.... I was realllllly hoping he'd say $99. It'll see a very slow adoption rate at $149 but I guess we can always hope for a price cut by Christmas\
I am both stoked and disappointed somewhat. My disappointent comes from the Powerbook arena. I ... was hoping that they would make a new PB come to light, even if it was a new Al 15" er. By the looks of things (high number of fans) the 970 aint gonna be inside a notebook for a while ...
Let's have a look, dual 2GHz cpu draw 4.5 times the power of a 1.2 GHz cpu. Nine fans divided by 4.5 is 2. One off for a heat pipe.
Tight fit but G5 Powerbook introduced next month, availabe in august
I think it's not Bruce Chizen in the key note. Also the video is obviously scripted and edited, so more likely to be "right" than someone live on stage.
Well the guy on stage has acutally seen a Mac in the last 5 years
Quote:
It's Apple's video, if it really was twice as fast as anything else they would have gotten him to say so, no?
Don't ask me, but if you believe Chizen then a Dual 1.42GHz Power Mac is about as fast as a Dual 3.06 GHz Xeon.
1. 2 Drive Bays- When TODAY you can purchase a Terabyte of HD space in just two drives. I don't see this as much of an issue. Those who need more space can grab an Xraid. Apple shouldn't be screwing up the internal layout to satiate those who want to recycle old HD on their last legs.
2. External Bay. I think PC's are going this route as well. Does anyone really care about the latest CDRW drives and their speed. There is a point of diminishing returns. I'm sure many people are happy with a DVDR drive with acceptable CDRW burning.
3. PCI Slots- Losing one slot doesn't mean much when just recently Firewire has made great strides in Audio/Video. Plus USB 2.0 is onboard now. It's becoming increasingly difficult to justify a bunch of PCI slots when even Hardware developers are shying away from PCI where applicable.
4. Not many people I spoke to cared about the door. It was like "neat" but not a huge selling feature.
I don't like the lowend unit. It's the typical Apple crippeware that is so infuriating. Another Yikes.
1. 2 Drive Bays- When TODAY you can purchase a Terabyte of HD space in just two drives. I don't see this as much of an issue. Those who need more space can grab an Xraid. Apple shouldn't be screwing up the internal layout to satiate those who want to recycle old HD on their last legs.
4 drives didnt screw up the internal layout of the old powermacs. obviously its a weakness in the design if you must make sacrifices to expansion.
250 plus 250 = 1 terabyte?
Xraid is QUITE A BIT more $$$ than it would be to buy 2 more serial ATA drives for a PowerMac if it had the space. so its not a solution.
Quote:
2. External Bay. I think PC's are going this route as well. Does anyone really care about the latest CDRW drives and their speed. There is a point of diminishing returns. I'm sure many people are happy with a DVDR drive with acceptable CDRW burning.
why take it away? what purpose? it took them 2 and a half years to finally ADD a 2nd bay and now they remove it again.... why? because they didn't want to change the design? again, a flaw in the design of the product.
Quote:
3. PCI Slots- Losing one slot doesn't mean much when just recently Firewire has made great strides in Audio/Video. Plus USB 2.0 is onboard now. It's becoming increasingly difficult to justify a bunch of PCI slots when even Hardware developers are shying away from PCI where applicable.
it's a minor issue compared to the others but still, it's another thing apple took away from the previous line all while raising the price. Apple added a 4th due to overwhelming demand for a 4th over the years.... and now they go back to 3... why? because of design limits of the case?
Quote:
4. Not many people I spoke to cared about the door. It was like "neat" but not a huge selling feature.
i'm pretty sure that if a survery was conducted the opening door of the previous powermacs had a very big impression on buyers and was a lot more than "neat"
Look, I just got in and watched the keynote: OH MY GOD!!!!
This, people, is what we have been yammering about on these very boards for years. Apple getting on top with a machine that just blows everyone away. I'm speechless. I'm gonna be scraping for cash. I WANT ONE NOW!!!!
They finally get a sweet arse processor that will put them on top in terms of speed to go along with the already kick ass Mac OS X operating system. Then what do they do? Come up with a sweet looking blazing machine with......1 optical bay & 3 PCI slots. Can Apple actually hit a home run in every single area for once? It really isnt that hard not to, yet you go and take a step backwards. People want more than a single drive bay. People want more than 3 PCI slots. Some people NEED more and I NEED more. I have my PCI slots filled in my QS, and would add more if I could fit them.
Not only this, but you have the IBM 970 processor which supposedly costs 50% less than the G4 chip yet you theoretically RAISE prices on the models. $1999 for a low end machine is not acceptable, and neither is a GeForce FX 5200. At least they gave it a superdrive. The front ports and optical SPDIF in/out is great, but there's no mention of what the audio processor is inside the G5. I didn't even realize until applenut's post that they once again cripple the low end. Why? Why do you have to purposely cripple the features on the low end tower? It's low end and cheaper because its slower and doesnt include as much memory & has a smaller HD. That constitutes the price difference. If anything, it is false advertising on the part of Apple with their claims about bandwidth and touting PCI-X.
ATI RADEON 9600 Pro with 64MB DDR SDRAM ?? Do they even make them with 64 MB of RAM? This is on a $3000 high end machine folks. This isn't the year 2000 Steve.
Here you have undoubtedly the fastest computers on the market right now coupled with the best operating system yet you find a way to screw it all up. The price hike? Simply because Apple CAN and of course they WILL. It isn't fair to the consumer but of course Apple has a monopoly over it's own market and can inact these business practices.
The sad thing is I will probably end up trying to get one.
My initial reaction to the keynote play by play (I'm at work) was HOLY S***!!! Apple just went to DDR ram last year and now they are out in front of PC's in chipset tech. NICE!
I also thought the G5 looked just terrible, but after looking at it for a while it's growing on me...
It's been a great day, the only dissapointment is that my 1 year old dual 1ghz feels really old and the new powermac has very limited internal HD/optical drive space.
Lastly, today intel intro'd the last of the P4's, woopty woop, but the p5 specs (due later this year) are on par with apple tech wise it seems. Even more interesting is intel's plans for a consumer 64bit chip for later this year. Perhaps they are a bit worried about apple and amd coming out with one?
Ok, really lastly...
The last I heard, intel "certified" certain vendors DDR chips for springdale/canterwood. As I understood it, it was because the DDR400 was not finalized by (insert organization that determines the spec as I can't remember) and using DDR that wasnt certified as intel compatible might cause stabilitly problems...long story short, should we worry about DDR400 memory and use apple's or will any do? Has the spec been finalized?
GO APPLE...KILLER SOFTWARE, NOW WITH KILLER HARDWARE!
Hmmm, after reading some other posts and taking a closer look at the models offered...
WTF is with the 1.6? Lame apple, just lame...
Also, everyone keeps saying the dual 2 is the best deal. Why? Does 200mhz (especially when its already at 1800) and another proc justify $600? I guess if you must have the best...
Comments
Originally posted by JLL
I'm just watching the keynote, and what the Adobe guy said was that the new Power Macs are more than twice as fast as any machine they've seen - not any Mac.
That's not what he (Bruce Chizen) says on the video: "it's up to two times as fast as the previous performance we've experienced on the Macintosh."
I'm not really saying that means much, but as a bare statement it doesn't seem that impressive (particularly as he also states that Adobe has been working closely with Apple on Photoshop.
Originally posted by applenut
Unfortunately in MANY ways
Where should I start... Panther
1. Finder.... apparently moving the toolbar from the top to the left pane makes the finder "new" and "user centric". The graphite scheme is ugly. It's not up to par with what I have come to expect from Apple's software designers and now they are spreading it throughout the OS and software titles. Other than that, the finder still seems to be flawed in many of the ays he said the new one fixes. I don't get it
2. not much else to justify 129 bucks to me yet.... no awe dropping features with the exception of expose which is a godsend. of course im sure under the hood its a lot stronger but feature wise its lacking so far.
iSight and iChat AV
150 dollars for this single purpose camera is ridiculous. I don't care if it captures pristine quality video. 150 dollars is way too steep, especially considering you really need TWO of them to actually use iChat AV the way its suppose to. It looks like it works well and is very cool, but the price point they settled on is assinine for all but the money is no issue mac users.
PowerMac G5
uhg....
1. Reduced hard drive bays from 4 (supported) to 2.
2. Reduced PCI slots from 4 to 3
3. Reduced external drive bays from 2 to 1
4. They got rid of the door. What the hell? It was a signature part and advantage of Apple's towers. And now its gone.
Apple greatly reduced expansion options all while RAISING the price. Not only that, they raised the entry level model 500 dollars. As if that wasnt bad enough, the entry level model is NEUTERED... no PCI-X, no DDR-400, no 8GB RAM max. The standard video card situation is not impressive considering the price of these machines... and the only difference between the high end and mid range is an additional processor yet the price increases 600 dollars.
Most of all, the entry price point for a user who wants an upgradable graphic card and/or PCI slot(s) and a choice of displays shot up today and Apple offers no suitable "prosumer" option.
Why are some people so predictable?
Originally posted by applenut
Unfortunately in MANY ways
Where should I start... Panther
1. Finder.... apparently moving the toolbar from the top to the left pane makes the finder "new" and "user centric". The graphite scheme is ugly. It's not up to par with what I have come to expect from Apple's software designers and now they are spreading it throughout the OS and software titles. Other than that, the finder still seems to be flawed in many of the ays he said the new one fixes. I don't get it
It goes back to this whole thing with X - "classic" is a perfection of simplicity. Now Apple is trying to make perfection of complexity. Rather than trying to build on "classic" they want to throw the baby out with the bath water - "no, that's not right, let's do something new".
I think we've already seen some of this in X, and I think we're going to keep on seeing it for a while yet. This whole brushed metal thing is so yucky.
Originally posted by JLL
Why are some people so predictable?
why are some people so dumb and gullable that they will type a post like you just did and not back anything up?
i'm impressed.... really....
Originally posted by Clive
That's not what he (Bruce Chizen) says on the video: "it's up to two times as fast as the previous performance we've experienced on the Macintosh."
I'm not really saying that means much, but as a bare statement it doesn't seem that impressive (particularly as he also states that Adobe has been working closely with Apple on Photoshop.
But they say (and show) something else in the keynote.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Bruce Chizen has little interest in helping Apple out. He does this for good PR with his users. Despite the fact that he doesn't want to support Macs, he can at least damn with faint praise.
Why do you say that?
Originally posted by applenut
Unfortunately in MANY ways
iSight and iChat AV
150 dollars for this single purpose camera is ridiculous. I don't care if it captures pristine quality video. 150 dollars is way too steep, especially considering you really need TWO of them to actually use iChat AV the way its suppose to. It looks like it works well and is very cool, but the price point they settled on is assinine for all but the money is no issue mac users.
The iSight camera is priced pretty good actually. Logitech cameras, decent ones, cost $99, and they are the generic USB variety. This is a MUCH nicer camera, and it costs $149. Its a deal.
The 1.6Ghz G5 for $2k is stupid. Its braindead.
The 2Ghz Dual G5 is a steal of a deal.
-M
Originally posted by JLL
But they say (and show) something else in the keynote.
I think it's not Bruce Chizen in the key note. Also the video is obviously scripted and edited, so more likely to be "right" than someone live on stage.
It's Apple's video, if it really was twice as fast as anything else they would have gotten him to say so, no?
Originally posted by moazam
The iSight camera is priced pretty good actually. Logitech cameras, decent ones, cost $99, and they are the generic USB variety. This is a MUCH nicer camera, and it costs $149. Its a deal.
The 1.6Ghz G5 for $2k is stupid. Its braindead.
The 2Ghz Dual G5 is a steal of a deal.
-M
perhaps.... I was realllllly hoping he'd say $99. It'll see a very slow adoption rate at $149 but I guess we can always hope for a price cut by Christmas
Originally posted by applenut
why are some people so dumb and gullable that they will type a post like you just did and not back anything up?
i'm impressed.... really....
Actually I agree, JLL if you're going to criticise you have to do better than that, all you've basically written is "you suck".
Originally posted by TAZ
I am both stoked and disappointed somewhat. My disappointent comes from the Powerbook arena. I ... was hoping that they would make a new PB come to light, even if it was a new Al 15" er. By the looks of things (high number of fans) the 970 aint gonna be inside a notebook for a while ...
Let's have a look, dual 2GHz cpu draw 4.5 times the power of a 1.2 GHz cpu. Nine fans divided by 4.5 is 2. One off for a heat pipe.
Tight fit but G5 Powerbook introduced next month, availabe in august
Originally posted by Clive
I think it's not Bruce Chizen in the key note. Also the video is obviously scripted and edited, so more likely to be "right" than someone live on stage.
Well the guy on stage has acutally seen a Mac in the last 5 years
It's Apple's video, if it really was twice as fast as anything else they would have gotten him to say so, no?
Don't ask me, but if you believe Chizen then a Dual 1.42GHz Power Mac is about as fast as a Dual 3.06 GHz Xeon.
2. External Bay. I think PC's are going this route as well. Does anyone really care about the latest CDRW drives and their speed. There is a point of diminishing returns. I'm sure many people are happy with a DVDR drive with acceptable CDRW burning.
3. PCI Slots- Losing one slot doesn't mean much when just recently Firewire has made great strides in Audio/Video. Plus USB 2.0 is onboard now. It's becoming increasingly difficult to justify a bunch of PCI slots when even Hardware developers are shying away from PCI where applicable.
4. Not many people I spoke to cared about the door. It was like "neat" but not a huge selling feature.
I don't like the lowend unit. It's the typical Apple crippeware that is so infuriating. Another Yikes.
1. 2 Drive Bays- When TODAY you can purchase a Terabyte of HD space in just two drives. I don't see this as much of an issue. Those who need more space can grab an Xraid. Apple shouldn't be screwing up the internal layout to satiate those who want to recycle old HD on their last legs.
4 drives didnt screw up the internal layout of the old powermacs. obviously its a weakness in the design if you must make sacrifices to expansion.
250 plus 250 = 1 terabyte?
Xraid is QUITE A BIT more $$$ than it would be to buy 2 more serial ATA drives for a PowerMac if it had the space. so its not a solution.
2. External Bay. I think PC's are going this route as well. Does anyone really care about the latest CDRW drives and their speed. There is a point of diminishing returns. I'm sure many people are happy with a DVDR drive with acceptable CDRW burning.
why take it away? what purpose? it took them 2 and a half years to finally ADD a 2nd bay and now they remove it again.... why? because they didn't want to change the design? again, a flaw in the design of the product.
3. PCI Slots- Losing one slot doesn't mean much when just recently Firewire has made great strides in Audio/Video. Plus USB 2.0 is onboard now. It's becoming increasingly difficult to justify a bunch of PCI slots when even Hardware developers are shying away from PCI where applicable.
it's a minor issue compared to the others but still, it's another thing apple took away from the previous line all while raising the price. Apple added a 4th due to overwhelming demand for a 4th over the years.... and now they go back to 3... why? because of design limits of the case?
4. Not many people I spoke to cared about the door. It was like "neat" but not a huge selling feature.
i'm pretty sure that if a survery was conducted the opening door of the previous powermacs had a very big impression on buyers and was a lot more than "neat"
This, people, is what we have been yammering about on these very boards for years. Apple getting on top with a machine that just blows everyone away. I'm speechless. I'm gonna be scraping for cash. I WANT ONE NOW!!!!
They finally get a sweet arse processor that will put them on top in terms of speed to go along with the already kick ass Mac OS X operating system. Then what do they do? Come up with a sweet looking blazing machine with......1 optical bay & 3 PCI slots. Can Apple actually hit a home run in every single area for once? It really isnt that hard not to, yet you go and take a step backwards. People want more than a single drive bay. People want more than 3 PCI slots. Some people NEED more and I NEED more. I have my PCI slots filled in my QS, and would add more if I could fit them.
Not only this, but you have the IBM 970 processor which supposedly costs 50% less than the G4 chip yet you theoretically RAISE prices on the models. $1999 for a low end machine is not acceptable, and neither is a GeForce FX 5200. At least they gave it a superdrive. The front ports and optical SPDIF in/out is great, but there's no mention of what the audio processor is inside the G5. I didn't even realize until applenut's post that they once again cripple the low end. Why? Why do you have to purposely cripple the features on the low end tower? It's low end and cheaper because its slower and doesnt include as much memory & has a smaller HD. That constitutes the price difference. If anything, it is false advertising on the part of Apple with their claims about bandwidth and touting PCI-X.
ATI RADEON 9600 Pro with 64MB DDR SDRAM ?? Do they even make them with 64 MB of RAM? This is on a $3000 high end machine folks. This isn't the year 2000 Steve.
Here you have undoubtedly the fastest computers on the market right now coupled with the best operating system yet you find a way to screw it all up. The price hike? Simply because Apple CAN and of course they WILL. It isn't fair to the consumer but of course Apple has a monopoly over it's own market and can inact these business practices.
The sad thing is I will probably end up trying to get one.
So close, yet so far away Apple.
I also thought the G5 looked just terrible, but after looking at it for a while it's growing on me...
It's been a great day, the only dissapointment is that my 1 year old dual 1ghz feels really old and the new powermac has very limited internal HD/optical drive space.
Lastly, today intel intro'd the last of the P4's, woopty woop, but the p5 specs (due later this year) are on par with apple tech wise it seems. Even more interesting is intel's plans for a consumer 64bit chip for later this year. Perhaps they are a bit worried about apple and amd coming out with one?
Ok, really lastly...
The last I heard, intel "certified" certain vendors DDR chips for springdale/canterwood. As I understood it, it was because the DDR400 was not finalized by (insert organization that determines the spec as I can't remember) and using DDR that wasnt certified as intel compatible might cause stabilitly problems...long story short, should we worry about DDR400 memory and use apple's or will any do? Has the spec been finalized?
GO APPLE...KILLER SOFTWARE, NOW WITH KILLER HARDWARE!
WTF is with the 1.6? Lame apple, just lame...
Also, everyone keeps saying the dual 2 is the best deal. Why? Does 200mhz (especially when its already at 1800) and another proc justify $600? I guess if you must have the best...