I am nothing but extremely impressed and even MORE proud to be a Mac user after today. That company has their crap together like no other!
The G5 is 5x sexier and cooler-looking than the G4s that came before (all versions). Hands down. There is no contest.
It looks like an understated, "I'm going to rip your ear off" machine, just sitting there. It's simple and low-key and just looks like a squared-away, "ready to do 'bid-ness'" machine if there's ever been one!
I said in the chat earlier that it looks like the 12" and 17" PowerBook's fat older brother...and I mean that in a good way. Squared-off, straight aluminum and that cool PowerBook-esque power button just looks so sweet and cool.
AND, most of all, in this whole era of "digital hub", cameras, iPods, camcorders, iSight, etc., Apple finally got a clue and - gasp - actually put USB, FireWire and headphone ports on the FRONT, where people using all these devices will actually appreciate them and, possibly, use them more.
How lame is it - on a machine/platform that touts itself as the digital hub and all - to go fumbling for these tiny ports on the back of you Mac all the time?
I was happier to see those three little ports on the front than anything else. That's just smart, common sense thinking...and I hope they adapt it for the LCD iMac at some point (the ULTIMATE digital hub machine). The eMac and laptops are fine as they are, of course (ports easily located/accessed on the sides).
And a co-worker made a comment that is actually quite dead-on: "it looks like a cheese grater!"
Yeah, but we're talking some fast cheese!
Here's to Apple. Here's to Steve and Jonathan. Here's to all the others who worked on this (and Panther, iSight, iChat 2, etc.
Great work, guys. Too bad I'm not a tower guy, otherwise I'd have that bastard on my desk come August!
I was really, really impressed today and I like what I heard, on both the software AND hardware fronts. Going to continue being a great 2003 and a kick-ass 2004.
I am nothing but extremely impressed and even MORE proud to be a Mac user after today. That company has their crap together like no other!
The G5 is 5x sexier and cooler-looking than the G4s that came before (all versions). Hands down. There is no contest.
It looks like an understated, "I'm going to rip your ear off" machine, just sitting there. It's simple and low-key and just looks like a squared-away, "ready to do 'bid-ness'" machine if there's ever been one!
I said in the chat earlier that it looks like the 12" and 17" PowerBook's fat older brother...and I mean that in a good way. Squared-off, straight aluminum and that cool PowerBook-esque power button just looks so sweet and cool.
AND, most of all, in this whole era of "digital hub", cameras, iPods, camcorders, iSight, etc., Apple finally got a clue and - gasp - actually put USB, FireWire and headphone ports on the FRONT, where people using all these devices will actually appreciate them and, possibly, use them more.
How lame is it - on a machine/platform that touts itself as the digital hub and all - to go fumbling for these tiny ports on the back of you Mac all the time?
I was happier to see those three little ports on the front than anything else. That's just smart, common sense thinking...and I hope they adapt it for the LCD iMac at some point (the ULTIMATE digital hub machine). The eMac and laptops are fine as they are, of course (ports easily located/accessed on the sides).
And a co-worker made a comment that is actually quite dead-on: "it looks like a cheese grater!"
Here's to Apple. Here's to Steve and Jonathan. Here's to all the others who worked on this (and Panther, iSight, iChat 2, etc.
Great work, guys. Too bad I'm not a tower guy, otherwise I'd have that bastard on my desk come August!
I was really, really impressed today and I like what I heard, on both the software AND hardware fronts. Going to continue being a great 2003 and a kick-ass 2004.
I agree. It is a fantastic machine and a very impressive OS.
I was at the keynote and got to touch/see/use the g5s they had out for display afterwards. The case has a nice rugged heft to it and you can run it with the door removed if you like staring at the innards (there's a plastic barrier that you have to keep in for airflow reasons, but it's clear). The door on the front of the cd tray drops straight down like a Star Trek door, rather than hinging, which is cool. There are antenna ports on the back for airport and bluetooth, since I was told the aluminum messes with the reception. Tried to listen to the fan noise, but the place was loud so I couldn't hear much. I really liked what I saw up close...no case complaints at all.
I still believe that the "accidental" stat posting on the web was very deliberate (to get the full attention of the worlds (PC) computer press and financial papers).
The Macs are (finally) as fast as the peecees (not faster - Apple would have tested fps games etc. if they were).
The only thing stopping me from ordering a TwinTower (2Gig) is that I have vowed never to buy a stationary computer again. I'll stick with my Pismo until the G5 14-15 inch surfaces. Don't care if it's only 1.2 GHurts - I'll buy it anyway. Hopefully this authumn - in the year of the POWERbook.
Hmmmm, perhaps I can persuade my boss into letting me replace my two Macs (G3 and G4 towers) at work for a new G5 TwinTower.
Very different from the numbers Apple gave during the Keynote. Hmm.
The 1.8 AMD opteron got this 1060 1100
The published X86 SPEC scores where measured using Intel's compiler suite. Intel has been working hard on the compiler front for quite a while now, as they realized early on that good hardware (in the case of the early P4 not so good hardware...) is only one half of the equation and the quality of the software compile is the other half to get to maximum speed. That's the one thing (apart from the slight AMD64 bashing in the G5 spec paragraph) that I find a little distressing: apparently, the best PowerPC compiler available (to apple?) at the moment is GCC3.3, which accordingly was used for the G5 SPEC suite compilation. GCC3.3 for X86 however is up to 50% slower (maybe even more) than the latest Intel compiler, hence the low SPEC scores for the P4/Xeons. The same applies for multiprocessing optimizations. Of course, the average buyer, this little detail won't matter. And in what's "real world" at the moment, i.e. application benchmarks, the G5 DOES nicely trounce the rest out there!
So, apart from the SPEC thingy, I am stoked!!! And after looking at the new enclosure more closely, I must admit that I totally love it. I don't like the single drive bay, but hey - if you can shell out that much money for a computer you might want to pay some extra for an external solution, or an XRaid. By the way, in the light of SATA the omission of SCSI in the XRaid makes a lot of sense all of a sudden... .
I am also a little miffed about these omissions, but especially because of some potential missed opportunities (if only more for bragging rights than any real advantages).
Here are the things that I would have Apple do in my perfect world:
1) Leave room for four HD bays, and boast about having 1 TB of internal storage.
2) Configure their DIMM slots to recognize 2GB modules so they can advertize that they can have up to 16GB of RAM, placing them very solidly into server territory.
3) Push/advertize that they were the first to break the gigahertz barrier on a system bus.
Overall, I think that the new G5's are incredible, and it's sure great to have such small things to complain about instead of ones about gaping omissions in architecture/hardware.
What I expected, when I expected it, with a case design of the quality I've come to expect. I quite like the look of the new case -- I bet it looks awesome in person. They went all out on the system architecture, which is what I was expecting to see. The ATI 9600 and 9800 are both available, which is great. The prices are pretty good too.
The new software looks good, especially Xcode (nee Project Builder). Can't wait to get my hands on that. GCC 3.3 looks like it has improved quite a bit, probably mostly for the PPC which is why the x86 scores are lame. The good thing about software, however, is that it can be updated far more easily that hardware. I expect good things from future GCC versions, and from IBM's PPC compilers. The new Finder and Mail will be welcome.
Excellent news for the day, and considering it is the developer's conference I wouldn't have expected anything more. You PowerBook weenies will get your new 15" next month (probably at MacWorld). A consumer tower wouldn't be introduced here anyhow -- who knows, it might still show up at the consumer show. There is lots of room below these towers for a lower end machine, either G4 based or with a slower G5 w/ a less memory subsystem. The important thing is that Apple is finally back in the Pro game.
Yahoo! And best of all they promise 3 GHz by the time my next upgrade comes along. Now excuse me, please, I've got to go see who I can bum a copy of the preview off of.
I love the case... I'm impressed with the specs. But one little thing....... why isn't it slot loading? You got this amazing case, and then a crappy beige (possibly black) plastic thing coming out of it when you eject. \
Dude a workstation isn't just a fast machine it includes certain high level support from the seller, a guarantee to run certain apps without crashing and data loss due to software probs. This stuff costs extra, and makes workstations so much more expensive.
For example, Quadros from nVidia ship with many workstations even though they may offer the exact same performance and chip as a reg., cheaper, consumer Geforce, but in return it's drivers are more thoroughly tested and configured.
Your partially true, as I used to work in the graphics department of a particular PC vendor. They do certify certain workstation apps like ProE, etc., which can add to the cost. However, the graphics cards are identical between the GL and non-GL cards. The only difference is a device ID on the GPU. This ID is detected by the graphics driver, which is the same for GL and non-GL, to determine whether it is GL or non-GL. If it's GL, the driver will enable the GL performance enhancements, which aren't much. A GL card will enable hardware anti-aliasing lines and one other performance feature that the non-GL card won't do because the BIOS and Graphics driver won't allow it.
As well, because comanies want these features and don't have much options, nVidia and ATI and charge a few hundred dollars more on the GL card than the non-GL card despite the fact that they are identical in every way except for the Device ID, which itself is the same except for one bit.
Overall, the hardware in a workstation can be the same as in non-workstation. Also, because the drivers are the same between GL cards and non-GL cards, they are tested all the same, technically.
Whether Apple does this or not, is up to them. Keep in mind, though, Apple really doesn't have a reputation for shoddy software/hardware that isn't stable. Also, given the fact that companies like Apple can be liable for data-loss, etc. that comes from poor driver support or hardware, I assume stability about using the certified apps is already assured.
In what way, applenut? Price-wise? Yeah, that's a bit of a dinger (and doesn't bode too well for any 970 PowerBook that may come out in the next 6-10 months).
I'm pretty much thinking that these great recent pricecuts on the PowerBooks are for this last batch of G4-based PowerBooks (the revved 12", updated aluminum 15" and whatever tweak the 17" may get in the coming months). Then when/if the PowerBooks get a G5, POW...prices back up to previous (or higher) ranges.
Yeah, nice one. But the problem is it's Adobe's code we're using.
I'm just watching the keynote, and what the Adobe guy said was that the new Power Macs are more than twice as fast as any machine they've seen - not any Mac.
I'm just so happy right now, what a great day, esp being it the store around other mac users. Plus I saw a few laptops with ichat open and their browers tuned to AI . The future's so bright I gotta wear
I'm just watching the keynote, and what the Adobe guy said was that the new Power Macs are more than twice as fast as any machine they've seen - not any Mac.
in the video the prez says twice as fast as any mac, on stage they said something like 2.1 times as fast as a dual 3.06ghz Xeon
in the video the prez says twice as fast as any mac, on stage they said something like 2.1 times as fast as a dual 3.06ghz Xeon
He said twice as fast as any machine in the keynote - I'm watching it right now. 2.1 times as fast as a dual 3.06GHz Xeon is also more than twice as fast as the DP1.42GHz PMG4.
Because a PowerMac should be able to play any type of media out there: normal sized DVDs/CDs, 3.5" cds, and also odd shaped cds like those cd business cards. Also, I've never seen a tray loader scratch a cd. At one point I had a car stereo (slot loader) that scratched every cd I put into it. The grasping mechanism was old and scratched every cd it touched. Not cool.
1. Finder.... apparently moving the toolbar from the top to the left pane makes the finder "new" and "user centric". The graphite scheme is ugly. It's not up to par with what I have come to expect from Apple's software designers and now they are spreading it throughout the OS and software titles. Other than that, the finder still seems to be flawed in many of the ays he said the new one fixes. I don't get it
2. not much else to justify 129 bucks to me yet.... no awe dropping features with the exception of expose which is a godsend. of course im sure under the hood its a lot stronger but feature wise its lacking so far.
iSight and iChat AV
150 dollars for this single purpose camera is ridiculous. I don't care if it captures pristine quality video. 150 dollars is way too steep, especially considering you really need TWO of them to actually use iChat AV the way its suppose to. It looks like it works well and is very cool, but the price point they settled on is assinine for all but the money is no issue mac users.
PowerMac G5
uhg....
1. Reduced hard drive bays from 4 (supported) to 2.
2. Reduced PCI slots from 4 to 3
3. Reduced external drive bays from 2 to 1
4. They got rid of the door. What the hell? It was a signature part and advantage of Apple's towers. And now its gone.
Apple greatly reduced expansion options all while RAISING the price. Not only that, they raised the entry level model 500 dollars. As if that wasnt bad enough, the entry level model is NEUTERED... no PCI-X, no DDR-400, no 8GB RAM max. The standard video card situation is not impressive considering the price of these machines... and the only difference between the high end and mid range is an additional processor yet the price increases 600 dollars.
Most of all, the entry price point for a user who wants an upgradable graphic card and/or PCI slot(s) and a choice of displays shot up today and Apple offers no suitable "prosumer" option.
Comments
The G5 is 5x sexier and cooler-looking than the G4s that came before (all versions). Hands down. There is no contest.
It looks like an understated, "I'm going to rip your ear off" machine, just sitting there. It's simple and low-key and just looks like a squared-away, "ready to do 'bid-ness'" machine if there's ever been one!
I said in the chat earlier that it looks like the 12" and 17" PowerBook's fat older brother...and I mean that in a good way. Squared-off, straight aluminum and that cool PowerBook-esque power button just looks so sweet and cool.
AND, most of all, in this whole era of "digital hub", cameras, iPods, camcorders, iSight, etc., Apple finally got a clue and - gasp - actually put USB, FireWire and headphone ports on the FRONT, where people using all these devices will actually appreciate them and, possibly, use them more.
How lame is it - on a machine/platform that touts itself as the digital hub and all - to go fumbling for these tiny ports on the back of you Mac all the time?
I was happier to see those three little ports on the front than anything else. That's just smart, common sense thinking...and I hope they adapt it for the LCD iMac at some point (the ULTIMATE digital hub machine). The eMac and laptops are fine as they are, of course (ports easily located/accessed on the sides).
And a co-worker made a comment that is actually quite dead-on: "it looks like a cheese grater!"
Yeah, but we're talking some fast cheese!
Here's to Apple. Here's to Steve and Jonathan. Here's to all the others who worked on this (and Panther, iSight, iChat 2, etc.
Great work, guys. Too bad I'm not a tower guy, otherwise I'd have that bastard on my desk come August!
I was really, really impressed today and I like what I heard, on both the software AND hardware fronts. Going to continue being a great 2003 and a kick-ass 2004.
Originally posted by pscates
I am nothing but extremely impressed and even MORE proud to be a Mac user after today. That company has their crap together like no other!
The G5 is 5x sexier and cooler-looking than the G4s that came before (all versions). Hands down. There is no contest.
It looks like an understated, "I'm going to rip your ear off" machine, just sitting there. It's simple and low-key and just looks like a squared-away, "ready to do 'bid-ness'" machine if there's ever been one!
I said in the chat earlier that it looks like the 12" and 17" PowerBook's fat older brother...and I mean that in a good way. Squared-off, straight aluminum and that cool PowerBook-esque power button just looks so sweet and cool.
AND, most of all, in this whole era of "digital hub", cameras, iPods, camcorders, iSight, etc., Apple finally got a clue and - gasp - actually put USB, FireWire and headphone ports on the FRONT, where people using all these devices will actually appreciate them and, possibly, use them more.
How lame is it - on a machine/platform that touts itself as the digital hub and all - to go fumbling for these tiny ports on the back of you Mac all the time?
I was happier to see those three little ports on the front than anything else. That's just smart, common sense thinking...and I hope they adapt it for the LCD iMac at some point (the ULTIMATE digital hub machine). The eMac and laptops are fine as they are, of course (ports easily located/accessed on the sides).
And a co-worker made a comment that is actually quite dead-on: "it looks like a cheese grater!"
Here's to Apple. Here's to Steve and Jonathan. Here's to all the others who worked on this (and Panther, iSight, iChat 2, etc.
Great work, guys. Too bad I'm not a tower guy, otherwise I'd have that bastard on my desk come August!
I was really, really impressed today and I like what I heard, on both the software AND hardware fronts. Going to continue being a great 2003 and a kick-ass 2004.
I agree. It is a fantastic machine and a very impressive OS.
Anybody who is dissapointed is a total Asshead.
I still believe that the "accidental" stat posting on the web was very deliberate (to get the full attention of the worlds (PC) computer press and financial papers).
The Macs are (finally) as fast as the peecees (not faster - Apple would have tested fps games etc. if they were).
The only thing stopping me from ordering a TwinTower (2Gig) is that I have vowed never to buy a stationary computer again. I'll stick with my Pismo until the G5 14-15 inch surfaces. Don't care if it's only 1.2 GHurts - I'll buy it anyway. Hopefully this authumn - in the year of the POWERbook.
Hmmmm, perhaps I can persuade my boss into letting me replace my two Macs (G3 and G4 towers) at work for a new G5 TwinTower.
Originally posted by Malaclypse
Here are all the spec scores for many platforms: http://www.spec.org/cpu2000/results/cpu2000.html
Dell PowerEdge 2650 (3.06 GHz Xeon) 1014 1056
Very different from the numbers Apple gave during the Keynote. Hmm.
The 1.8 AMD opteron got this 1060 1100
The published X86 SPEC scores where measured using Intel's compiler suite. Intel has been working hard on the compiler front for quite a while now, as they realized early on that good hardware (in the case of the early P4 not so good hardware...) is only one half of the equation and the quality of the software compile is the other half to get to maximum speed. That's the one thing (apart from the slight AMD64 bashing in the G5 spec paragraph) that I find a little distressing: apparently, the best PowerPC compiler available (to apple?) at the moment is GCC3.3, which accordingly was used for the G5 SPEC suite compilation. GCC3.3 for X86 however is up to 50% slower (maybe even more) than the latest Intel compiler, hence the low SPEC scores for the P4/Xeons. The same applies for multiprocessing optimizations. Of course, the average buyer, this little detail won't matter. And in what's "real world" at the moment, i.e. application benchmarks, the G5 DOES nicely trounce the rest out there!
So, apart from the SPEC thingy, I am stoked!!! And after looking at the new enclosure more closely, I must admit that I totally love it. I don't like the single drive bay, but hey - if you can shell out that much money for a computer you might want to pay some extra for an external solution, or an XRaid. By the way, in the light of SATA the omission of SCSI in the XRaid makes a lot of sense all of a sudden... .
Originally posted by audiopollution
Disappointed about a couple of things:
1) Only one optical drive bay.
2) Only 2 internal HD bays.
[SNIP]
I am also a little miffed about these omissions, but especially because of some potential missed opportunities (if only more for bragging rights than any real advantages).
Here are the things that I would have Apple do in my perfect world:
1) Leave room for four HD bays, and boast about having 1 TB of internal storage.
2) Configure their DIMM slots to recognize 2GB modules so they can advertize that they can have up to 16GB of RAM, placing them very solidly into server territory.
3) Push/advertize that they were the first to break the gigahertz barrier on a system bus.
Overall, I think that the new G5's are incredible, and it's sure great to have such small things to complain about instead of ones about gaping omissions in architecture/hardware.
The new software looks good, especially Xcode (nee Project Builder). Can't wait to get my hands on that. GCC 3.3 looks like it has improved quite a bit, probably mostly for the PPC which is why the x86 scores are lame. The good thing about software, however, is that it can be updated far more easily that hardware. I expect good things from future GCC versions, and from IBM's PPC compilers. The new Finder and Mail will be welcome.
Excellent news for the day, and considering it is the developer's conference I wouldn't have expected anything more. You PowerBook weenies will get your new 15" next month (probably at MacWorld). A consumer tower wouldn't be introduced here anyhow -- who knows, it might still show up at the consumer show. There is lots of room below these towers for a lower end machine, either G4 based or with a slower G5 w/ a less memory subsystem. The important thing is that Apple is finally back in the Pro game.
Yahoo! And best of all they promise 3 GHz by the time my next upgrade comes along. Now excuse me, please, I've got to go see who I can bum a copy of the preview off of.
Originally posted by applenut
I'm dissapointed
Huh?
Originally posted by maxcom29
Dude a workstation isn't just a fast machine it includes certain high level support from the seller, a guarantee to run certain apps without crashing and data loss due to software probs. This stuff costs extra, and makes workstations so much more expensive.
For example, Quadros from nVidia ship with many workstations even though they may offer the exact same performance and chip as a reg., cheaper, consumer Geforce, but in return it's drivers are more thoroughly tested and configured.
Your partially true, as I used to work in the graphics department of a particular PC vendor. They do certify certain workstation apps like ProE, etc., which can add to the cost. However, the graphics cards are identical between the GL and non-GL cards. The only difference is a device ID on the GPU. This ID is detected by the graphics driver, which is the same for GL and non-GL, to determine whether it is GL or non-GL. If it's GL, the driver will enable the GL performance enhancements, which aren't much. A GL card will enable hardware anti-aliasing lines and one other performance feature that the non-GL card won't do because the BIOS and Graphics driver won't allow it.
As well, because comanies want these features and don't have much options, nVidia and ATI and charge a few hundred dollars more on the GL card than the non-GL card despite the fact that they are identical in every way except for the Device ID, which itself is the same except for one bit.
Overall, the hardware in a workstation can be the same as in non-workstation. Also, because the drivers are the same between GL cards and non-GL cards, they are tested all the same, technically.
Whether Apple does this or not, is up to them. Keep in mind, though, Apple really doesn't have a reputation for shoddy software/hardware that isn't stable. Also, given the fact that companies like Apple can be liable for data-loss, etc. that comes from poor driver support or hardware, I assume stability about using the certified apps is already assured.
Regards!
Originally posted by applenut
I'm dissapointed
In what way, applenut? Price-wise? Yeah, that's a bit of a dinger (and doesn't bode too well for any 970 PowerBook that may come out in the next 6-10 months).
I'm pretty much thinking that these great recent pricecuts on the PowerBooks are for this last batch of G4-based PowerBooks (the revved 12", updated aluminum 15" and whatever tweak the 17" may get in the coming months). Then when/if the PowerBooks get a G5, POW...prices back up to previous (or higher) ranges.
Rats...
Originally posted by JLL
As usual that says a lot more about Adobe's code than Apple's machines
Yeah, nice one.
Originally posted by Clive
Yeah, nice one.
I'm just watching the keynote, and what the Adobe guy said was that the new Power Macs are more than twice as fast as any machine they've seen - not any Mac.
Originally posted by JLL
I'm just watching the keynote, and what the Adobe guy said was that the new Power Macs are more than twice as fast as any machine they've seen - not any Mac.
in the video the prez says twice as fast as any mac, on stage they said something like 2.1 times as fast as a dual 3.06ghz Xeon
Originally posted by Ti Fighter
in the video the prez says twice as fast as any mac, on stage they said something like 2.1 times as fast as a dual 3.06ghz Xeon
He said twice as fast as any machine in the keynote - I'm watching it right now. 2.1 times as fast as a dual 3.06GHz Xeon is also more than twice as fast as the DP1.42GHz PMG4.
Originally posted by Akumulator
....... why isn't it slot loading?
Because a PowerMac should be able to play any type of media out there: normal sized DVDs/CDs, 3.5" cds, and also odd shaped cds like those cd business cards. Also, I've never seen a tray loader scratch a cd. At one point I had a car stereo (slot loader) that scratched every cd I put into it. The grasping mechanism was old and scratched every cd it touched. Not cool.
Originally posted by pscates
In what way, applenut?
Unfortunately in MANY ways
Where should I start... Panther
1. Finder.... apparently moving the toolbar from the top to the left pane makes the finder "new" and "user centric". The graphite scheme is ugly. It's not up to par with what I have come to expect from Apple's software designers and now they are spreading it throughout the OS and software titles. Other than that, the finder still seems to be flawed in many of the ays he said the new one fixes. I don't get it
2. not much else to justify 129 bucks to me yet.... no awe dropping features with the exception of expose which is a godsend. of course im sure under the hood its a lot stronger but feature wise its lacking so far.
iSight and iChat AV
150 dollars for this single purpose camera is ridiculous. I don't care if it captures pristine quality video. 150 dollars is way too steep, especially considering you really need TWO of them to actually use iChat AV the way its suppose to. It looks like it works well and is very cool, but the price point they settled on is assinine for all but the money is no issue mac users.
PowerMac G5
uhg....
1. Reduced hard drive bays from 4 (supported) to 2.
2. Reduced PCI slots from 4 to 3
3. Reduced external drive bays from 2 to 1
4. They got rid of the door. What the hell? It was a signature part and advantage of Apple's towers. And now its gone.
Apple greatly reduced expansion options all while RAISING the price. Not only that, they raised the entry level model 500 dollars. As if that wasnt bad enough, the entry level model is NEUTERED... no PCI-X, no DDR-400, no 8GB RAM max. The standard video card situation is not impressive considering the price of these machines... and the only difference between the high end and mid range is an additional processor yet the price increases 600 dollars.
Most of all, the entry price point for a user who wants an upgradable graphic card and/or PCI slot(s) and a choice of displays shot up today and Apple offers no suitable "prosumer" option.