Not crazy at all. The Marlins sure made a fan out of me since June..
Considering how pathetic they've been between their 2 world series appearances, I think it's very surprising. Even this season, they weren't that good. They've been good for the last couple months and they wouldn't have even made the playoffs if the Phillies had not been so Phillies like. Whatever. Go fish!
Torre did a good job managing. Moving Giambi down to the 7 spot was key, I think. It took some pressure off of him. And Mussina? Wow. He was brilliant. It's nice to see a starter coming off the bench and being that effective. One's gotta wonder, though, how much are the Yanks going to have left for Saturday's game? How many pitchers CAN'T go on Saturday? I guess it doesn't matter. But those guys are going to be beat (tired, I mean).
Considering how pathetic they've been between their 2 world series appearances, I think it's very surprising. Even this season, they weren't that good. They've been good for the last couple months and they wouldn't have even made the playoffs if the Phillies had not been so Phillies like. Whatever. Go fish!
The Marlins were basically the best defensive team in the league besides the Giants. It's sort of ironic the Giants completely choked defensively with 7 errors in the 4 division series games. The Marlins weren't "good for the last couple of months." They were atrocious for two months and stunningly good the rest of the way. Besides, the Marlins are a completely different team from the '97 squad, which was completely liquidated following the World Series.
Leaving Pedro in after he was OBVIOUSLY running on fumes is the stupidest thing I have seen in a while. He escaped the 7th...he should've been pulled after Jeter's double or at worst, after Williams single. He had already thrown 115 pitches and was not fooling any hitters.
Here's the logic. You take Pedro after Jeter's hard hit(or Williams single)when the bullpen still has a 3(or 2) run cushion. Instead Pedro gets pulled with the score tied and the go ahead run on second. Bad, bad manager. The Yankees should send Brady a HUGE X-mas present.
Besides, the Marlins are a completely different team from the '97 squad, which was completely liquidated following the World Series.
That's part of what was surprising. That '97 team, IIRC, was put together to win a world series before Huzianga (sp?) decided to dump the team. This one was put together just to field a team.
Wow, best sporting event I've ever been at. Truly magical, it was great watching the sense of impending doom come across the Boston fans in the stand...I'll never forget it.
... Bad, bad manager. The Yankees should send Brady a HUGE X-mas present.
When Zimmer finally retires as Yankee bench coach Little is a lock for the job. Zimmer blew up the '78 BoSox team. Now Little has done his part with this Red Sox team. The Yankees will take Little to their hearts in a New York minute.
Well when Grady finally went to the mound to take out Pedro (because we were *stunned* when he came out to pitch the 8th), we were a bit relieved because we knew the bullpen would be able to shut things down.
When they left Pedro in, we were *not* happy. I couldn't believe it. Then Pedro, who had thrown over 100 pitches, just had the Yankees catch up to him. He had pitched a great game, why in the world would you leave him in when he was getting into trouble?
Embree and Timlin were ready to go and wakefield was available. Yet Grady decided for whatever reason to leave Pedro in. Grady even had another chance to get him out of there after the next batter, and he didn't move to the bullpen. Now he's going to have to live with that decision.
Still, the Red Sox had an unbelievable season. They had better not break up this team in the offseason because they were great to watch.
The Yankees and Red Sox were very evenly matched. I think they only had a one run difference in the series. But in the end, it came down to home field advantage. Oh well, the Red Sox gave them a run for their money.
... why in the world would you leave him in when he was getting into trouble?
Embree and Timlin were ready to go...
Embree and Timlin went 16.1 innings in the post season and didn't give up a run. Timlin in particular was massive. (He also was consistently good during the regular season.) Timlin's post season numbers: 8 Games, 9.2 IP, 1 H, 2 BB (and one of those 2 walks was intentional), 0 runs, 11 Ks. It just doesn't get any better than that. Rivera even gave up a run, more hits and had fewer Ks. He ended up being the series MVP! How in the world do you not bring Timlin in to put out the fire? Instead Gump waited for the house to burn down first.
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... in the end, it came down to home field advantage...
No it didn't. It came down to Grady Little's extremely poor managing. Home field advantage was non-existent. The Yanks took 2 out of 3 in Boston. The Sox took 2 out of 4 in New York.
never underestimate a manager's unwarranted trust and confidence in the team's superstar or number one starter.
to be honest, i would leave pedro in too. he's a big game pitcher, he's been in situations like that countless times, sometimes he'll come through, others he wont.
he was on fumes but if he makes the change and the next guy gives up a hit all your opinions would be different.
They won the game in the bottom of the 11th and you want to tell me home field advantage wasn't a factor? It was huge! The Yankees knew that all they had to do was score a run and that was it, where the Red Sox knew they had to score a run and get 3 outs. It changes the way you play the game.
Also, if Pedro had been pulled and the bullpen had given up as many runs as Pedro, my attitude would be that the bullpen was their major issue throughout the season and it failed when it counted. It wouldn't be that Grady made a bad move because quite honestly, when he first came out to pitch the 8th, we were stunned. We couldn't believe it. Then when he got in trouble, we couldn't believe he was allowed to keep pitching.
Pedro was out of gas. He threw over 100 pitches, had 7 solid innings of work, and the bullpen was there to take over, but Grady let him stay in. Oh well, now we have to hear about it all the way through spring training next year.
never underestimate a manager's unwarranted trust and confidence in the team's superstar or number one starter.
to be honest, i would leave pedro in too. he's a big game pitcher, he's been in situations like that countless times, sometimes he'll come through, others he wont.
he was on fumes but if he makes the change and the next guy gives up a hit all your opinions would be different.
Pedro isn't Roger or Petitte or Wells or Mussina. He doesn't give you a lot of innings and here we were at the end of a long season. He's had even less rest than he's used to getting for several starts in a row. There's no question in my mind about Pedro's desire or his talent, even now, when he's clearly not the same pitcher he was a few years ago. He just doesn't do well when he starts to tire - especially against a good team.
Not taking him out after 7 wasn't the move I would have made but it was certainly defensible. But if you put him back out there for the 8th, because Pedro was definitely starting to falter in the 7th, you have to have him on a short leash. Grady should have pulled him after Jeter's double. He didn't. Bernie singles and STILL nothing. Matsui doubles and STILL nothing.
I hate some of the crap Pedro says when he's not pitching but on the field I love him as much as anyone. He pitches with as much heart as anyone I've ever seen but he's HUMAN. And baseball is a TEAM sport. Even great pitchers run out of gas. That's why there are relief pitchers. After Bernie's single I was beside myself, yelling at the radio, "Bring Timlin in!!!" Timlin should also have earned Gump's confidence by now. He did the job for us all year. The comeback against Oakland started with what he did in that game for us - sort of like what Mussina did for the Yankees last night.
They won the game in the bottom of the 11th and you want to tell me home field advantage wasn't a factor? It was huge!
We already beat them TWICE in New York. They had no problem beating us in Boston. The same thing happened the last two series during the regular season.
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Also, if Pedro had been pulled and the bullpen had given up as many runs as Pedro, my attitude would be that the bullpen was their major issue throughout the season...
Timlin was the exception all season long.
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... and it failed when it counted.
But it DIDN'T.
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... when he first came out to pitch the 8th, we were stunned. We couldn't believe it. Then when he got in trouble, we couldn't believe he was allowed to keep pitching...
Right. You were stunned because it was so obviously the wrong move.
The crazy part is that I can't have the TV on and I'm having a tough time surfing the web just because we have to hear all the curse BS and how the Red Sox were only '5 outs away'.
But the worst part is that now there is a Marlins/Yankees World Series which no one will watch. It's almost like the 'Subway Series' a few years ago.
This postseason has really done a lot to bring back baseball I think. I don't know, maybe it's just around me because the Red Sox came so close again, but *everyone* was watching the Red Sox. *Everyone* was talking about baseball.
I mean, last night's game 7 in Boston had an 81 share! That means 81% of the people watching TV in Boston last night were watching Game 7 on Fox. That was more people watching the Red Sox last night then watched the Patriots win the Super Bowl. Just about everyone was watching the Red Sox and those that weren't probably fell asleep on the remote or something.
But now, there is the Marlins and the Yankees in the World Series. New York will watch, some people in Florida might watch, but it's not going to be the ratings monsters that they had been getting. I mean, I can't even listen to the Fox announcers, I had to have the Radio on to get the broadcast.
Also, the Radio was ahead of the TV by about 5 seconds in the early games in the series and they delayed the radio broadcast in the last 2 games to 'sync' it with TV so people could mute the sound and turn up the local radio broadcast.
Someone sent me this picture of one of today's New York papers. Guess someone forgot to tell them that the Yankees won:
Any time there's a walk-off homer, home-field advantage is the reason. Home-field was huge and it allowed the Yanks to win the series. Great series, BTW.
Comments
Originally posted by Eugene
WHAT A GAME.
It's been a good playoffs. You realize the Marlins can win the World Series for the 2nd time in 6 years. How crazy is that?
Originally posted by penseive
It's been a good playoffs. You realize the Marlins can win the World Series for the 2nd time in 6 years. How crazy is that?
Not crazy at all. The Marlins sure made a fan out of me since June..
Originally posted by Eugene
Not crazy at all. The Marlins sure made a fan out of me since June..
Considering how pathetic they've been between their 2 world series appearances, I think it's very surprising. Even this season, they weren't that good. They've been good for the last couple months and they wouldn't have even made the playoffs if the Phillies had not been so Phillies like. Whatever. Go fish!
great to see pedro faulter. and good to see clemens get a shot at going out better than that.
mariano and moose came through.
and did i not tell u that it would be the breakthrough of nomar or giambi that would decide the game....well, giambi was clutch today
Originally posted by penseive
Considering how pathetic they've been between their 2 world series appearances, I think it's very surprising. Even this season, they weren't that good. They've been good for the last couple months and they wouldn't have even made the playoffs if the Phillies had not been so Phillies like. Whatever. Go fish!
The Marlins were basically the best defensive team in the league besides the Giants. It's sort of ironic the Giants completely choked defensively with 7 errors in the 4 division series games. The Marlins weren't "good for the last couple of months." They were atrocious for two months and stunningly good the rest of the way. Besides, the Marlins are a completely different team from the '97 squad, which was completely liquidated following the World Series.
Here's the logic. You take Pedro after Jeter's hard hit(or Williams single)when the bullpen still has a 3(or 2) run cushion. Instead Pedro gets pulled with the score tied and the go ahead run on second.
Originally posted by Eugene
Besides, the Marlins are a completely different team from the '97 squad, which was completely liquidated following the World Series.
That's part of what was surprising. That '97 team, IIRC, was put together to win a world series before Huzianga (sp?) decided to dump the team. This one was put together just to field a team.
Originally posted by Gilsch
... Bad, bad manager. The Yankees should send Brady a HUGE X-mas present.
When Zimmer finally retires as Yankee bench coach Little is a lock for the job. Zimmer blew up the '78 BoSox team. Now Little has done his part with this Red Sox team. The Yankees will take Little to their hearts in a New York minute.
When they left Pedro in, we were *not* happy. I couldn't believe it. Then Pedro, who had thrown over 100 pitches, just had the Yankees catch up to him. He had pitched a great game, why in the world would you leave him in when he was getting into trouble?
Embree and Timlin were ready to go and wakefield was available. Yet Grady decided for whatever reason to leave Pedro in. Grady even had another chance to get him out of there after the next batter, and he didn't move to the bullpen. Now he's going to have to live with that decision.
Still, the Red Sox had an unbelievable season. They had better not break up this team in the offseason because they were great to watch.
The Yankees and Red Sox were very evenly matched. I think they only had a one run difference in the series. But in the end, it came down to home field advantage. Oh well, the Red Sox gave them a run for their money.
Unfortunate: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playof...ory?id=1640041
Originally posted by Fran441
... why in the world would you leave him in when he was getting into trouble?
Embree and Timlin were ready to go...
Embree and Timlin went 16.1 innings in the post season and didn't give up a run. Timlin in particular was massive. (He also was consistently good during the regular season.) Timlin's post season numbers: 8 Games, 9.2 IP, 1 H, 2 BB (and one of those 2 walks was intentional), 0 runs, 11 Ks. It just doesn't get any better than that. Rivera even gave up a run, more hits and had fewer Ks. He ended up being the series MVP! How in the world do you not bring Timlin in to put out the fire? Instead Gump waited for the house to burn down first.
... in the end, it came down to home field advantage...
No it didn't. It came down to Grady Little's extremely poor managing. Home field advantage was non-existent. The Yanks took 2 out of 3 in Boston. The Sox took 2 out of 4 in New York.
to be honest, i would leave pedro in too. he's a big game pitcher, he's been in situations like that countless times, sometimes he'll come through, others he wont.
he was on fumes but if he makes the change and the next guy gives up a hit all your opinions would be different.
Now you see why I have my hope eternal.
Mandricard
AppleOutsider
Home field advantage was non-existent.
They won the game in the bottom of the 11th and you want to tell me home field advantage wasn't a factor? It was huge! The Yankees knew that all they had to do was score a run and that was it, where the Red Sox knew they had to score a run and get 3 outs. It changes the way you play the game.
Also, if Pedro had been pulled and the bullpen had given up as many runs as Pedro, my attitude would be that the bullpen was their major issue throughout the season and it failed when it counted. It wouldn't be that Grady made a bad move because quite honestly, when he first came out to pitch the 8th, we were stunned. We couldn't believe it. Then when he got in trouble, we couldn't believe he was allowed to keep pitching.
Pedro was out of gas. He threw over 100 pitches, had 7 solid innings of work, and the bullpen was there to take over, but Grady let him stay in. Oh well, now we have to hear about it all the way through spring training next year.
Originally posted by applenut
never underestimate a manager's unwarranted trust and confidence in the team's superstar or number one starter.
to be honest, i would leave pedro in too. he's a big game pitcher, he's been in situations like that countless times, sometimes he'll come through, others he wont.
he was on fumes but if he makes the change and the next guy gives up a hit all your opinions would be different.
Pedro isn't Roger or Petitte or Wells or Mussina. He doesn't give you a lot of innings and here we were at the end of a long season. He's had even less rest than he's used to getting for several starts in a row. There's no question in my mind about Pedro's desire or his talent, even now, when he's clearly not the same pitcher he was a few years ago. He just doesn't do well when he starts to tire - especially against a good team.
Not taking him out after 7 wasn't the move I would have made but it was certainly defensible. But if you put him back out there for the 8th, because Pedro was definitely starting to falter in the 7th, you have to have him on a short leash. Grady should have pulled him after Jeter's double. He didn't. Bernie singles and STILL nothing. Matsui doubles and STILL nothing.
I hate some of the crap Pedro says when he's not pitching but on the field I love him as much as anyone. He pitches with as much heart as anyone I've ever seen but he's HUMAN. And baseball is a TEAM sport. Even great pitchers run out of gas. That's why there are relief pitchers. After Bernie's single I was beside myself, yelling at the radio, "Bring Timlin in!!!" Timlin should also have earned Gump's confidence by now. He did the job for us all year. The comeback against Oakland started with what he did in that game for us - sort of like what Mussina did for the Yankees last night.
Originally posted by Fran441
They won the game in the bottom of the 11th and you want to tell me home field advantage wasn't a factor? It was huge!
We already beat them TWICE in New York. They had no problem beating us in Boston. The same thing happened the last two series during the regular season.
Also, if Pedro had been pulled and the bullpen had given up as many runs as Pedro, my attitude would be that the bullpen was their major issue throughout the season...
Timlin was the exception all season long.
... and it failed when it counted.
But it DIDN'T.
... when he first came out to pitch the 8th, we were stunned. We couldn't believe it. Then when he got in trouble, we couldn't believe he was allowed to keep pitching...
Right. You were stunned because it was so obviously the wrong move.
But the worst part is that now there is a Marlins/Yankees World Series which no one will watch. It's almost like the 'Subway Series' a few years ago.
This postseason has really done a lot to bring back baseball I think. I don't know, maybe it's just around me because the Red Sox came so close again, but *everyone* was watching the Red Sox. *Everyone* was talking about baseball.
I mean, last night's game 7 in Boston had an 81 share! That means 81% of the people watching TV in Boston last night were watching Game 7 on Fox. That was more people watching the Red Sox last night then watched the Patriots win the Super Bowl. Just about everyone was watching the Red Sox and those that weren't probably fell asleep on the remote or something.
But now, there is the Marlins and the Yankees in the World Series. New York will watch, some people in Florida might watch, but it's not going to be the ratings monsters that they had been getting. I mean, I can't even listen to the Fox announcers, I had to have the Radio on to get the broadcast.
Also, the Radio was ahead of the TV by about 5 seconds in the early games in the series and they delayed the radio broadcast in the last 2 games to 'sync' it with TV so people could mute the sound and turn up the local radio broadcast.
Someone sent me this picture of one of today's New York papers. Guess someone forgot to tell them that the Yankees won: