Dean haters wishes there was more then him saying he wants jobs and health insurance for everyone. Unlike the current hump in the white house.....
Sigh.
Want to start a thread with substance?
Try these:
Why doesn't the republican party condemn haley barbor for his by racists, for racists campaign?
Will bush JUNIOR insist on going to bob "xenohpobe" jones university this election year?
Why isn't the "liberal media" reporting on the fact that the repblican party in south dakota and kentucky are installing poll watchers at heavy-ly black precincts?
I love it. The right wing nuts in this country have so little to grasp and say "see we told you our ideas worked" that they are going to step on every verbal mistep despite it having an entirely different meaning what so ever...
First I don't hate Dean. If he wins the office I assure you I will likely support him in most matters. As for your assertions, why not start the threads yourself instead of complaining about mine? Did you get some sort of non-thread starting status of which none of us is aware?
Make sure to make the title at least a paragraph long though... you don't want Shawn claiming anything about your post.
The answer to your question requires too sophisticated a response for me to answer. I think they still 'defend the common man' better than Republicans despite looking very much like them in recent years. But a new progressive wing needs to challenge the conservative "DNC" wing of the party. I don't know. That's a really good question. But I think Dean is part of the solution. (not for being progressive: he's not. but for challenging the dormant democratic leadership establishment.)
Here is the unsophisticated answer. How do we get a white man's vote when we blame him for everything?
Dean is attempting a "Southern strategy." He is attempting to win back Southern male, white voters and telling them they don't have to leave any racist or oppressive baggage they may have at the door to join his big tent.
I think it's quite the opposite-- having been tacitly wooed by the Republican party for the past 30 years via coded racism, Dean is saying to the white southerner: there are reasons to vote for me that transcend the kind of pandering you're used to. It's called voting for your own economic interests, but it requires getting past the notion that "northern liberals" think you are all dim-witted cracker shit-kickers that wouldn't be welcome on our side of the mason-dixon line, much less in our line of sight.
Funny thing is, both sides seems pretty quick to reduce the white southern voter to racist, ill-educated, reactionary stereotype. If a democratic candidate could really walk the walk and connect with these folks, we might discover the "racist baggage" they're assumed to carry is about the same as any other region in the country, that is, their fair share but no more.
I think it's quite the opposite-- having been tacitly wooed by the Republican party for the past 30 years via coded racism, Dean is saying to the white southerner: there are reasons to vote for me that transcend the kind of pandering you're used to. It's called voting for your own economic interests, but it requires getting past the notion that "northern liberals" think you are all dim-witted cracker shit-kickers that wouldn't be welcome on our side of the mason-dixon line, much less in our line of sight.
Funny thing is, both sides seems pretty quick to reduce the white southern voter to racist, ill-educated, reactionary stereotype. If a democratic candidate could really walk the walk and connect with these folks, we might discover the "racist baggage" they're assumed to carry is about the same as any other region in the country, that is, their fair share but no more.
addabox,
You will have to enlighten me on what you consider coded racism. Charles Rangle said that saying you want tax cuts is coded racism. Likewise I have heard things like "getting tough on crime" is coded racism. Of course there was Willie Horton which Democrats declared racist.
Why don't you tell me what you consider some of this coded racism to be. A link to some history would be even better.
Perplexing though is that you suggest that they likely aren't any more racist than anyone else, yet would respond differently to subtle racist suggestions, phrases, words, etc. Sounds a bit like having your cake and eating it too. I could be wrong on that, but it just seems inconsistant. I would appreciate some further explanation.
Well no one else seems to think that. You know, you should really do a close reading of my first two posts in this thread. I'd really like to know where I am wrong since you obviously think I am wrong.
I think he's 'in a bit of a stew' simply because people are looking for reasons to attack him.
Note to self, people = Democrats, specifically presidential nominees. Keep this in mind when they are discussing Bush as well.... looking for reasons to attach him....
Well no one else seems to think that. You know, you should really do a close reading of my first two posts in this thread. I'd really like to know where I am wrong since you obviously think I am wrong.
Sure they do... just remember I defend you when they do.(Mr. Dismiss posts because of the source )
I said you are wrong because he is attempting a southern strategy of appealing to white lower class voters while telling them they don't have to change their racist beliefs they may or may not have. There are elements of the Democratic Party that pretty much believe they are racist because of who they are and unless they are renouncing their heritage and showing proper contrition are basically burning crosses and hanging folks, Dean is attempting to tell them they don't have to renounce their heritage, but since most folks in the Democratic party consider that heritage racist, it is offensive to them and they just aren't buying it. Hence it will get the same labels and names as when Republicans do it.
White Southern Males = Southern Strategy of getting white males by pandering to them at the expense of others.
Confederate flag = code for saying it is okay to still be racist and join the Democrats.
Of course he didn't say it plainly. He has to use special southern white male secret code. Apparently Republicans have for years.
White Southern Males = Southern Strategy of getting white males by pandering to them at the expense of others.
"Another thing: Dean is trying to appeal to socially and culturally conservatives in the South basically on his own terms. As far as I can tell, he has not made any concessions on major issues that would make pickup driving, confederate flag-waving conservatives want to vote for him. Rather, he said that health insurance and better schools (the products of a Dean Presidency) would benefit them. And that traditionally voting Republican has not given them those things."
So how is a strategy of universal health care and better schools exclusive to any one group?
I said you are wrong because he is attempting a southern strategy of appealing to white lower class voters while telling them they don't have to change their racist beliefs they may or may not have.
This is a stretch of a stretch.
He's telling working class southern whites that Dean is a better option than Bush (and he's probably correct.)
To say Dean is accepting racism in this case is just silly.
"Another thing: Dean is trying to appeal to socially and culturally conservatives in the South basically on his own terms. As far as I can tell, he has not made any concessions on major issues that would make pickup driving, confederate flag-waving conservatives want to vote for him. Rather, he said that health insurance and better schools (the products of a Dean Presidency) would benefit them. And that traditionally voting Republican has not given them those things."
So how is a strategy of universal health care and better schools exclusive to any one group?
EDIT: That's really a rhetorical question.
How is it exclusive to any one group? Well first his site gives the health care to children, adults up to 25, and those at under $17,000 of income. Everyone else pretty much pays. I don't call that universal health care. I also don't call it equal treatment nor do those he claims to be attempting to reach. Especially when you are talking about a group of folks who are profoundly states rights oriented and by the admission of Dean himself are voting for tax cuts. They haven't voted for tax increases even when Republican governors have attempted them. Even Dean doesn't call it universal health care. He calls it "quality health care." Seems you are spinning this more than even Dean himself there Shawn.
As with better schools, how would he honestly force these states to change their local school systems? Vermont has no incredible record for funding their schools or paying their teachers. In fact if you check the per capita spending and teacher pay rates they are right in the mid twenties with a bunch of... southern states.
What sort of credibility does he have in this area? It sounds like spin. It sounds like trying to grab the good old boys who want to use their guns. Dean suprisingly enough manages this problematic gun control issue by declaring that rural areas can have different standards than urban areas regarding guns. Perhaps his code is saying the standards could be different for different groups in other areas as well.
He's telling working class southern whites that Dean is a better option than Bush (and he's probably correct.)
To say Dean is accepting racism in this case is just silly.
Seems Al Sharpton doesn't agree with you.
Quote:
Candidate and civil rights activist Al Sharpton, who has accused Dean of having an "anti-black agenda" ? said he was "surprised and disturbed" by the Confederate flag remark. "If I said I wanted to be the candidate for people that ride around with helmets and swastikas, I would be asked to leave," Sharpton said.
Dean accepts different rules for guns regarding urban and rural areas. (secret white guy code for black and white areas) This is just another way of putting across a "I'll protect you from them" view.
How is it exclusive to any one group? Well first his site gives the health care to children, adults up to 25, and those at under $17,000 of income. Everyone else pretty much pays. I don't call that universal health care. I also don't call it equal treatment nor do those he claims to be attempting to reach. Especially when you are talking about a group of folks who are profoundly states rights oriented and by the admission of Dean himself are voting for tax cuts. They haven't voted for tax increases even when Republican governors have attempted them. Even Dean doesn't call it universal health care. He calls it "quality health care." Seems you are spinning this more than even Dean himself there Shawn.
As with better schools, how would he honestly force these states to change their local school systems? Vermont has no incredible record for funding their schools or paying their teachers. In fact if you check the per capita spending and teacher pay rates they are right in the mid twenties with a bunch of... southern states.
What sort of credibility does he have in this area? It sounds like spin. It sounds like trying to grab the good old boys who want to use their guns. Dean suprisingly enough manages this problematic gun control issue by declaring that rural areas can have different standards than urban areas regarding guns. Perhaps his code is saying the standards could be different for different groups in other areas as well.
Nick
Tell me again how Dean is "pandering to southern white male voters at the expense of others?" Do I need to repeat that you said Dean is "pandering to southern white male voters at the expense of others?" How is he doing that? That's what you said, and I'm holding you to it.
Your bait and switch tactics are disgusting. Dean said "give me guns and confederate flags" so you can draw people into the thread. Dean "panders to southern white male voters at the expense of others" so you can draw me into another argument.
It's your argument here. It's not my fault you can't defend it.
I would be happy if anyone can tell me how Dean is "pandering to southern white male voters at the expense of others."
You have to prove two things: 1) that Dean is actually "pandering to southern white male voters" and 2) that he's doing it "at the expense of others." Keep in mind that the word "pandering" actually has a meaning; it's not whatever trumptman thinks it means.
I would be happy if anyone can tell me how Dean is "pandering to southern white male voters at the expense of others."
You have to prove two things: 1) that Dean is actually "pandering to southern white male voters" and 2) that he's doing it "at the expense of others." Keep in mind that the word "pandering" actually has a meaning; it's not whatever trumptman thinks it means.
Guys, this isn't a pissing contest.
Dean's comment was stupid. It shows his utter ignorance of the South and will probably end up alienating it. Dean is what he is: A liberal New Englander.
It will never cease to amaze me how people actually think someone like Dean can beat Bush, even if he does get the nomination. We haven't a President like that since Carter. Clinton ran on "the third way", which Dean is definitely not doing. He's not moving center...he's moving Left. The Democatic Big Wigs (including the Clintons) are scared to death Dean is going to win. they;re not stupid, Shawn. They KNOW what a Dean vs. Bush election is going to look like and they're no happy with what they see.
Why do you think the Clintons are so pro-Clark? You don't really BELIEVE that Clark is running due to the Draft Clark movement, do you? Calrk and the big boy Dems had this planned for months. Please.
In any case, there hasn't been a successful Democratic President since Kennedy. More to the point, a hard core Leftist Democat hasn't won since Carter.
To tell you the truth, I really don't know what to say to that, BR. I really don't. I don't know where your blind opposition to everything that I say stems. It's personally upsetting, because I can devote a lot of thought to a particular post, and you will invariably deride it without ever explaining yourself. In other words, I would like the benefit of the doubt here. Or at least help me out so I don't invoke your wrath every time I write something. In my posts in this thread, where am I wrong? Explain where my assessment is wrong, please. I tried to be perfectly honest. I'm not TRYING TO DECEIVE ANYONE. It's not something I wish to do at all. So when you say things like that I'm just confused. Really confused. Especially compared to trumptman, whose posts are so chock-full of misleading statements, lies, and deception. I know it, you know it. Yet somehow, you never seem to side with my reasoning. Is it personal? Am I stupid here? Where am I wrong? I would like to understand how whatever is it you seem to disagree with makes my statements in this thread wrong.
Tell me again how Dean is "pandering to southern white male voters at the expense of others?" Do I need to repeat that you said Dean is "pandering to southern white male voters at the expense of others?" How is he doing that? That's what you said, and I'm holding you to it.
Your bait and switch tactics are disgusting. Dean said "give me guns and confederate flags" so you can draw people into the thread. Dean "panders to southern white male voters at the expense of others" so you can draw me into another argument.
It's your argument here. It's not my fault you can't defend it.
Look lay off the rhetoric. It gets tiring and doesn't make a point. Just because you sound anguished doesn't make anyone else feel any differently. Got it? Good.
Are you telling me that when someone is acting in a good ol' boy quasi-racist manner you don't understand who it harms or how it harms others? As I stated and have addressed a number of times now (Shawn's favorite song must be dust in the wind) an endorsement of this behavior harms those working against it. Saying to racists, you can get the benefits, and not renounce your views is "at the expense of others."
The results of racism show up statistically. It is very rare nowadays to be able to point a finger and say "Yes officer that was the man who dragged my brother behind the pick up." Dean is saying those sorts of things don't have to change before these folks support him.
Pick your nose, don't pick a point and obscure my answer to it because I have repeated that point about 3 times.
Comments
Originally posted by keyboardf12
Agreed.
Dean haters wishes there was more then him saying he wants jobs and health insurance for everyone. Unlike the current hump in the white house.....
Sigh.
Want to start a thread with substance?
Try these:
Why doesn't the republican party condemn haley barbor for his by racists, for racists campaign?
Will bush JUNIOR insist on going to bob "xenohpobe" jones university this election year?
Why isn't the "liberal media"
I love it. The right wing nuts in this country have so little to grasp and say "see we told you our ideas worked" that they are going to step on every verbal mistep despite it having an entirely different meaning what so ever...
First I don't hate Dean. If he wins the office I assure you I will likely support him in most matters. As for your assertions, why not start the threads yourself instead of complaining about mine? Did you get some sort of non-thread starting status of which none of us is aware?
Make sure to make the title at least a paragraph long though... you don't want Shawn claiming anything about your post.
Nick
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Try responding to my points next time if you're going to quote me.
So you actually make points in your posts?
I thought they were just dismissive attacks.
Nick
Originally posted by ShawnJ
The answer to your question requires too sophisticated a response for me to answer. I think they still 'defend the common man' better than Republicans despite looking very much like them in recent years. But a new progressive wing needs to challenge the conservative "DNC" wing of the party. I don't know. That's a really good question. But I think Dean is part of the solution. (not for being progressive: he's not. but for challenging the dormant democratic leadership establishment.)
Here is the unsophisticated answer. How do we get a white man's vote when we blame him for everything?
Answer: You don't.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Dean is attempting a "Southern strategy." He is attempting to win back Southern male, white voters and telling them they don't have to leave any racist or oppressive baggage they may have at the door to join his big tent.
I think it's quite the opposite-- having been tacitly wooed by the Republican party for the past 30 years via coded racism, Dean is saying to the white southerner: there are reasons to vote for me that transcend the kind of pandering you're used to. It's called voting for your own economic interests, but it requires getting past the notion that "northern liberals" think you are all dim-witted cracker shit-kickers that wouldn't be welcome on our side of the mason-dixon line, much less in our line of sight.
Funny thing is, both sides seems pretty quick to reduce the white southern voter to racist, ill-educated, reactionary stereotype. If a democratic candidate could really walk the walk and connect with these folks, we might discover the "racist baggage" they're assumed to carry is about the same as any other region in the country, that is, their fair share but no more.
Originally posted by addabox
I think it's quite the opposite-- having been tacitly wooed by the Republican party for the past 30 years via coded racism, Dean is saying to the white southerner: there are reasons to vote for me that transcend the kind of pandering you're used to. It's called voting for your own economic interests, but it requires getting past the notion that "northern liberals" think you are all dim-witted cracker shit-kickers that wouldn't be welcome on our side of the mason-dixon line, much less in our line of sight.
Funny thing is, both sides seems pretty quick to reduce the white southern voter to racist, ill-educated, reactionary stereotype. If a democratic candidate could really walk the walk and connect with these folks, we might discover the "racist baggage" they're assumed to carry is about the same as any other region in the country, that is, their fair share but no more.
addabox,
You will have to enlighten me on what you consider coded racism. Charles Rangle said that saying you want tax cuts is coded racism. Likewise I have heard things like "getting tough on crime" is coded racism. Of course there was Willie Horton which Democrats declared racist.
Why don't you tell me what you consider some of this coded racism to be. A link to some history would be even better.
Perplexing though is that you suggest that they likely aren't any more racist than anyone else, yet would respond differently to subtle racist suggestions, phrases, words, etc. Sounds a bit like having your cake and eating it too. I could be wrong on that, but it just seems inconsistant. I would appreciate some further explanation.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
So you actually make points in your posts?
I thought they were just dismissive attacks.
Nick
Well no one else seems to think that. You know, you should really do a close reading of my first two posts in this thread. I'd really like to know where I am wrong since you obviously think I am wrong.
Originally posted by trumptman
Seems Dean is in a bit of a stew for repeatedly courting what are potentially racist, white voters down in the South.
I think he's 'in a bit of a stew' simply because people are looking for reasons to attack him.
Originally posted by bunge
I think he's 'in a bit of a stew' simply because people are looking for reasons to attack him.
Note to self, people = Democrats, specifically presidential nominees. Keep this in mind when they are discussing Bush as well.... looking for reasons to attach him....
Nick
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Well no one else seems to think that. You know, you should really do a close reading of my first two posts in this thread. I'd really like to know where I am wrong since you obviously think I am wrong.
Sure they do... just remember I defend you when they do.(Mr. Dismiss posts because of the source
I said you are wrong because he is attempting a southern strategy of appealing to white lower class voters while telling them they don't have to change their racist beliefs they may or may not have. There are elements of the Democratic Party that pretty much believe they are racist because of who they are and unless they are renouncing their heritage and showing proper contrition are basically burning crosses and hanging folks, Dean is attempting to tell them they don't have to renounce their heritage, but since most folks in the Democratic party consider that heritage racist, it is offensive to them and they just aren't buying it. Hence it will get the same labels and names as when Republicans do it.
White Southern Males = Southern Strategy of getting white males by pandering to them at the expense of others.
Confederate flag = code for saying it is okay to still be racist and join the Democrats.
Of course he didn't say it plainly. He has to use special southern white male secret code. Apparently Republicans have for years.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
White Southern Males = Southern Strategy of getting white males by pandering to them at the expense of others.
"Another thing: Dean is trying to appeal to socially and culturally conservatives in the South basically on his own terms. As far as I can tell, he has not made any concessions on major issues that would make pickup driving, confederate flag-waving conservatives want to vote for him. Rather, he said that health insurance and better schools (the products of a Dean Presidency) would benefit them. And that traditionally voting Republican has not given them those things."
So how is a strategy of universal health care and better schools exclusive to any one group?
EDIT: That's really a rhetorical question.
Originally posted by trumptman
I said you are wrong because he is attempting a southern strategy of appealing to white lower class voters while telling them they don't have to change their racist beliefs they may or may not have.
This is a stretch of a stretch.
He's telling working class southern whites that Dean is a better option than Bush (and he's probably correct.)
To say Dean is accepting racism in this case is just silly.
Originally posted by ShawnJ
"Another thing: Dean is trying to appeal to socially and culturally conservatives in the South basically on his own terms. As far as I can tell, he has not made any concessions on major issues that would make pickup driving, confederate flag-waving conservatives want to vote for him. Rather, he said that health insurance and better schools (the products of a Dean Presidency) would benefit them. And that traditionally voting Republican has not given them those things."
So how is a strategy of universal health care and better schools exclusive to any one group?
EDIT: That's really a rhetorical question.
How is it exclusive to any one group? Well first his site gives the health care to children, adults up to 25, and those at under $17,000 of income. Everyone else pretty much pays. I don't call that universal health care. I also don't call it equal treatment nor do those he claims to be attempting to reach. Especially when you are talking about a group of folks who are profoundly states rights oriented and by the admission of Dean himself are voting for tax cuts. They haven't voted for tax increases even when Republican governors have attempted them. Even Dean doesn't call it universal health care. He calls it "quality health care." Seems you are spinning this more than even Dean himself there Shawn.
As with better schools, how would he honestly force these states to change their local school systems? Vermont has no incredible record for funding their schools or paying their teachers. In fact if you check the per capita spending and teacher pay rates they are right in the mid twenties with a bunch of... southern states.
What sort of credibility does he have in this area? It sounds like spin. It sounds like trying to grab the good old boys who want to use their guns. Dean suprisingly enough manages this problematic gun control issue by declaring that rural areas can have different standards than urban areas regarding guns. Perhaps his code is saying the standards could be different for different groups in other areas as well.
Nick
Originally posted by bunge
This is a stretch of a stretch.
He's telling working class southern whites that Dean is a better option than Bush (and he's probably correct.)
To say Dean is accepting racism in this case is just silly.
Seems Al Sharpton doesn't agree with you.
Candidate and civil rights activist Al Sharpton, who has accused Dean of having an "anti-black agenda" ? said he was "surprised and disturbed" by the Confederate flag remark. "If I said I wanted to be the candidate for people that ride around with helmets and swastikas, I would be asked to leave," Sharpton said.
Dean accepts different rules for guns regarding urban and rural areas. (secret white guy code for black and white areas) This is just another way of putting across a "I'll protect you from them" view.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
How is it exclusive to any one group? Well first his site gives the health care to children, adults up to 25, and those at under $17,000 of income. Everyone else pretty much pays. I don't call that universal health care. I also don't call it equal treatment nor do those he claims to be attempting to reach. Especially when you are talking about a group of folks who are profoundly states rights oriented and by the admission of Dean himself are voting for tax cuts. They haven't voted for tax increases even when Republican governors have attempted them. Even Dean doesn't call it universal health care. He calls it "quality health care." Seems you are spinning this more than even Dean himself there Shawn.
As with better schools, how would he honestly force these states to change their local school systems? Vermont has no incredible record for funding their schools or paying their teachers. In fact if you check the per capita spending and teacher pay rates they are right in the mid twenties with a bunch of... southern states.
What sort of credibility does he have in this area? It sounds like spin. It sounds like trying to grab the good old boys who want to use their guns. Dean suprisingly enough manages this problematic gun control issue by declaring that rural areas can have different standards than urban areas regarding guns. Perhaps his code is saying the standards could be different for different groups in other areas as well.
Nick
Tell me again how Dean is "pandering to southern white male voters at the expense of others?" Do I need to repeat that you said Dean is "pandering to southern white male voters at the expense of others?" How is he doing that? That's what you said, and I'm holding you to it.
Your bait and switch tactics are disgusting. Dean said "give me guns and confederate flags" so you can draw people into the thread. Dean "panders to southern white male voters at the expense of others" so you can draw me into another argument.
It's your argument here. It's not my fault you can't defend it.
You have to prove two things: 1) that Dean is actually "pandering to southern white male voters" and 2) that he's doing it "at the expense of others." Keep in mind that the word "pandering" actually has a meaning; it's not whatever trumptman thinks it means.
Originally posted by trumptman
Seems Al Sharpton doesn't agree with you.
That's because the primaries haven't happened yet and he's his opponent. Had this happened after, the other Democrats would've been less outspoken.
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Well no one else seems to think that.
Wrong. I do.
Originally posted by ShawnJ
I would be happy if anyone can tell me how Dean is "pandering to southern white male voters at the expense of others."
You have to prove two things: 1) that Dean is actually "pandering to southern white male voters" and 2) that he's doing it "at the expense of others." Keep in mind that the word "pandering" actually has a meaning; it's not whatever trumptman thinks it means.
Guys, this isn't a pissing contest.
Dean's comment was stupid. It shows his utter ignorance of the South and will probably end up alienating it. Dean is what he is: A liberal New Englander.
It will never cease to amaze me how people actually think someone like Dean can beat Bush, even if he does get the nomination. We haven't a President like that since Carter. Clinton ran on "the third way", which Dean is definitely not doing. He's not moving center...he's moving Left. The Democatic Big Wigs (including the Clintons) are scared to death Dean is going to win. they;re not stupid, Shawn. They KNOW what a Dean vs. Bush election is going to look like and they're no happy with what they see.
Why do you think the Clintons are so pro-Clark? You don't really BELIEVE that Clark is running due to the Draft Clark movement, do you?
In any case, there hasn't been a successful Democratic President since Kennedy. More to the point, a hard core Leftist Democat hasn't won since Carter.
Originally posted by BR
Wrong. I do.
To tell you the truth, I really don't know what to say to that, BR. I really don't. I don't know where your blind opposition to everything that I say stems. It's personally upsetting, because I can devote a lot of thought to a particular post, and you will invariably deride it without ever explaining yourself. In other words, I would like the benefit of the doubt here. Or at least help me out so I don't invoke your wrath every time I write something. In my posts in this thread, where am I wrong? Explain where my assessment is wrong, please. I tried to be perfectly honest. I'm not TRYING TO DECEIVE ANYONE. It's not something I wish to do at all. So when you say things like that I'm just confused. Really confused. Especially compared to trumptman, whose posts are so chock-full of misleading statements, lies, and deception. I know it, you know it. Yet somehow, you never seem to side with my reasoning. Is it personal? Am I stupid here? Where am I wrong? I would like to understand how whatever is it you seem to disagree with makes my statements in this thread wrong.
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Tell me again how Dean is "pandering to southern white male voters at the expense of others?" Do I need to repeat that you said Dean is "pandering to southern white male voters at the expense of others?" How is he doing that? That's what you said, and I'm holding you to it.
Your bait and switch tactics are disgusting. Dean said "give me guns and confederate flags" so you can draw people into the thread. Dean "panders to southern white male voters at the expense of others" so you can draw me into another argument.
It's your argument here. It's not my fault you can't defend it.
Look lay off the rhetoric. It gets tiring and doesn't make a point. Just because you sound anguished doesn't make anyone else feel any differently. Got it? Good.
Are you telling me that when someone is acting in a good ol' boy quasi-racist manner you don't understand who it harms or how it harms others? As I stated and have addressed a number of times now (Shawn's favorite song must be dust in the wind) an endorsement of this behavior harms those working against it. Saying to racists, you can get the benefits, and not renounce your views is "at the expense of others."
The results of racism show up statistically. It is very rare nowadays to be able to point a finger and say "Yes officer that was the man who dragged my brother behind the pick up." Dean is saying those sorts of things don't have to change before these folks support him.
Pick your nose, don't pick a point and obscure my answer to it because I have repeated that point about 3 times.
Nick