That depends. Who is getting pissed off. With a swastika, it's pretty obvious, the vast majority; but within that culture, if such an ancient symbol is not given its proper "respect", members of that culture could be offended.
But back to the confederate flag. Yeah, usually it is to piss people off. But then again, so are many other forms of free speech.
You mentioned being "proud" of the symbol - what benefit is there to such pride in an inanimate object? The same pride in flipping the bird to the driver that cuts you off.
I think one of the problems is that the confederate battle flag was itself corrupted in the 50s and 60s by its use as a anti-civil rights rallying symbol. Its use in southern state flags and in front of state houses, etc, doesn't go back to the civil war, but only to pro-segregationist protests in the middle part of this century. That, IMO, is when it stopped standing mostly for the valor and bravery of southern patriots and started standing mostly for keeping the black folks down.
Which makes you think a little further. Why use the battle flag as a rallying point for opposing civil rights and maintaining segregation? What did all that have to do with the civil war? Everything, of course. Secession = slavery = maintaining a society where the poorest white was part of the ruling class. None can be separated from the others; all exist in perfect symbiosis. The south was unwilling to return to the union with limits on slavery, and was unwilling to arm slaves until just a month before the end in 1865.
So maybe the flag could have stood as a (relatively) harmless symbol of southern heritage, had it been used only in that way since the war. But its use in the 50s and 60s betrayed it for what it was, and is: a symbol of the Cause, with everything that implies.
_alliance_ goes to school at Texas A&M University in College Station, Texas.
A&M is where you send your little xenophobic mullet children when they whine about different colored and those who speak different languages.
We, as Texans, have managed to push most of the racist rednecks in the direction of A&M and we one day hope to get them all on a big boat with the promise of lots of sheep to and send the boat out to sea.
I am sorry for the unsightly nature of these morons, the boat is still being built and as the rednecks breed like roaches the design has to be changed to accomodate more and more Aggies.
Please do not judge the entire state by looking at Aggies, they are pathetic and non-representative.
Dont you have better things to do than worry about something that your yankee ass has no clue about to begin with?
You know, we have undergone several petitions, general elections, etc.. to try and remove our flag.. all because of ignorant outsiders who see only what they want to see, and only believe what they want to believe. Each attempt at removing,replacing,altering our flag, has been handily defeated by extremely wide margins. Even with massive tv/radio campaigns funded by liberal idiots like yourself..
You know why? Because we are proud of our history, our heritage, and we are true. We dont have to live behind stupid PC agendas.
Get over yourself...and if you would ever come down to the south, you would see that it is a non-issue, and that you are a fool.
Sorry, to be so aggressive, but your post really irks me.
I'm proud of the South, so proud in fact that I can't wait for the day when all the rebel flag carrying morons are all killed in a stadium collapse at a NASCAR event.
Because we are proud of our history, our heritage, and we are true.
What part exactly? Enslaving generations of human beings? Ruthlessly beating those generations? Impregnating the daughters of those generations?
Or maybe you are proud of keeping down the generations following those enslaved generations? Directing them towards the back of the bus? Or denying them access to decent centers of education? Or of gutting 14 year old boys who have the audacity to wink at a white woman (Emmett Till)?
Maybe you are proud of being the nurturing ground for nutcases like the KKK?
I don't know. I'm asking. What exactly are you proud of?
um, scarecrow, i have lived in the south almost my entire life. it's not an issue because you're ignoring it. but to say that the flag is a symbol of southern pride and/or heritage is an inherent acceptance of all the history that went into the development of that culture. period.
Interestingly I find Houston far more open-minded than my hometown Chicago. I think we do a much better job of living together here than back in Chicago where we had annual Nazi and skinhead marches and where white people move in the middle of the night at the first sign of people of color moving into the neighboorhood. The north likes to point a finger at the South, but perhaps a mirror would be more appropriate.
Remember the Nazis in "The Blues Brothers"? They really did march in that park every summer. I lived a few blocks away.
What part exactly? Enslaving generations of human beings? Ruthlessly beating those generations? Impregnating the daughters of those generations?
Or maybe you are proud of keeping down the generations following those enslaved generations? Directing them towards the back of the bus? Or denying them access to decent centers of education? Or of gutting 14 year old boys who have the audacity to wink at a white woman (Emmett Till)?
Maybe you are proud of being the nurturing ground for nutcases like the KKK?
I don't know. I'm asking. What exactly are you proud of?
Well, what are we proud of when we fly the American flag? The most extensive genocide in the history of the planet? Generations, nation wide , of relegating blacks to second class status? Generations of women denied enfranchisement? Internment of Japanese Americans during WWII?
Apparently it is possible to have pride in a faulty vessel.
I've gotta say, I've seen less blatant racism living in NC than I did living in WA.
What there is down here is *socioeconomic* elitism. It's an extension of the British class system, massaged by 400 years of slight separation. 'White trash' is a *serious* insult here. It insinuates that you are quite literally worthless, regardless of your skin color. The fact that most African-Americans feel disenfranchised here is, I honestly believe, more a product of the pseudo-caste system based on wealth than it is one of skin color. The latter is just an easier target for people to home in on when they don't have the intellect to come up with anything else to hate people for.
Hmmm. No sleep in 32 hours makes the above muddled. I have a point, really. :P
What part exactly? Enslaving generations of human beings? Ruthlessly beating those generations? Impregnating the daughters of those generations?
Or maybe you are proud of keeping down the generations following those enslaved generations? Directing them towards the back of the bus? Or denying them access to decent centers of education? Or of gutting 14 year old boys who have the audacity to wink at a white woman (Emmett Till)?
Maybe you are proud of being the nurturing ground for nutcases like the KKK?
I don't know. I'm asking. What exactly are you proud of?
yea, because the American flag doesn't "symbolize" any of that either
Well, what are we proud of when we fly the American flag?
I question I often ask myself, watching flag-toting cretins all over the place. But we were talking about the confederate flag, and I don't think changing the subject is a good or fruitful discussion strategy.
yea, because the American flag doesn't "symbolize" any of that either
See above. I'm sure the South-African flag symbolizes a lot of nastiness, as does the Belgian flag, but we are not talking about those. Sheesh.
And for the sake of completion: you will never find me waving, nay, displaying, an American flag (or any other flag) from any pole, car, piece of clothing or whatever, so you may as well pull those rolleyes back into thine skull, for they are not needed here.
I was born in Louisiana, raised in Orange County, California, and have recently moved back to the south(Mississippi).
And you know what, the south has sooo much less crap, stupid agendas, and overall idiots, than anywhere else that I have lived, including the all-righteous California.
It is a Non-issue here, because it just doesnt matter. We are proud of our heritage(good or bad) and we aren't afraid of our past. Sure, some things happened that we are not proud of, but we have worked a long time and come a long way. We have learned from mistakes in the past, and have grown from them.
Unlike most other states, that seem to be doing nothing but rehashing old issues and never making any true progress.
People who do not live here, do not know anything about this issue. They need to figure out their own problems and stop trying to fix things that don't need to be fixed.
There is nothing wrong with the south. Nothing more than any other states in the union. In fact, I think the south has actually come to terms with things from the past and has grown so much more than other states.
If you don't like the rebel flag, fine. If you think the south is just a bunch of red neck nascar fans, fine..
But stop perpetuating stereotypes and misinformation. Its FUD, and you dont know what you are talking about. Keep it to yourself.
Comments
Originally posted by _ alliance _
why anyone would want to...
to piss people off?
That depends. Who is getting pissed off. With a swastika, it's pretty obvious, the vast majority; but within that culture, if such an ancient symbol is not given its proper "respect", members of that culture could be offended.
But back to the confederate flag. Yeah, usually it is to piss people off. But then again, so are many other forms of free speech.
You mentioned being "proud" of the symbol - what benefit is there to such pride in an inanimate object? The same pride in flipping the bird to the driver that cuts you off.
Which makes you think a little further. Why use the battle flag as a rallying point for opposing civil rights and maintaining segregation? What did all that have to do with the civil war? Everything, of course. Secession = slavery = maintaining a society where the poorest white was part of the ruling class. None can be separated from the others; all exist in perfect symbiosis. The south was unwilling to return to the union with limits on slavery, and was unwilling to arm slaves until just a month before the end in 1865.
So maybe the flag could have stood as a (relatively) harmless symbol of southern heritage, had it been used only in that way since the war. But its use in the 50s and 60s betrayed it for what it was, and is: a symbol of the Cause, with everything that implies.
_alliance_ goes to school at Texas A&M University in College Station, Texas.
A&M is where you send your little xenophobic mullet children when they whine about different colored and those who speak different languages.
We, as Texans, have managed to push most of the racist rednecks in the direction of A&M and we one day hope to get them all on a big boat with the promise of lots of sheep to
I am sorry for the unsightly nature of these morons, the boat is still being built and as the rednecks breed like roaches the design has to be changed to accomodate more and more Aggies.
Please do not judge the entire state by looking at Aggies, they are pathetic and non-representative.
Originally posted by groverat
Please do not judge the entire state by looking at Aggies, they are pathetic and non-representative.
And they got their butts kicked by OU a couple of weeks ago.
Cheers
Scott
We proudly fly the flag in our 7 flags display right at the city border, and it is also flown over our state's capital building.
http://www.650motorcycles.com/83102k.jpg
It is actually part of our state flag, for that matter.
http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/...ages/ms_fi.gif
SO, how can you be so ignorant?
Dont you have better things to do than worry about something that your yankee ass has no clue about to begin with?
You know, we have undergone several petitions, general elections, etc.. to try and remove our flag.. all because of ignorant outsiders who see only what they want to see, and only believe what they want to believe. Each attempt at removing,replacing,altering our flag, has been handily defeated by extremely wide margins. Even with massive tv/radio campaigns funded by liberal idiots like yourself..
You know why? Because we are proud of our history, our heritage, and we are true. We dont have to live behind stupid PC agendas.
Get over yourself...and if you would ever come down to the south, you would see that it is a non-issue, and that you are a fool.
Sorry, to be so aggressive, but your post really irks me.
make up what little mind you have!
Originally posted by SCARECROW
Because we are proud of our history, our heritage, and we are true.
What part exactly? Enslaving generations of human beings? Ruthlessly beating those generations? Impregnating the daughters of those generations?
Or maybe you are proud of keeping down the generations following those enslaved generations? Directing them towards the back of the bus? Or denying them access to decent centers of education? Or of gutting 14 year old boys who have the audacity to wink at a white woman (Emmett Till)?
Maybe you are proud of being the nurturing ground for nutcases like the KKK?
I don't know. I'm asking. What exactly are you proud of?
Imagine clipping off the side with the nazi cross. Then turning it all 90° counterclockwise. What do you see? Yep. Check your atlases.
It's France! Talk about opposites attracting!
Unless of course it's not offending anyone.
Originally posted by SCARECROW
Well, I am proud of the Confederate Flag, because it IS part of my history, and my state's history.
...
Dont you have better things to do than worry about something that your yankee ass has no clue about to begin with?
...
Get over yourself...and if you would ever come down to the south, you would see that it is a non-issue, and that you are a fool.
Heh.
I'm from MS, too.
Remember the Nazis in "The Blues Brothers"? They really did march in that park every summer. I lived a few blocks away.
Originally posted by der Kopf
What part exactly? Enslaving generations of human beings? Ruthlessly beating those generations? Impregnating the daughters of those generations?
Or maybe you are proud of keeping down the generations following those enslaved generations? Directing them towards the back of the bus? Or denying them access to decent centers of education? Or of gutting 14 year old boys who have the audacity to wink at a white woman (Emmett Till)?
Maybe you are proud of being the nurturing ground for nutcases like the KKK?
I don't know. I'm asking. What exactly are you proud of?
Well, what are we proud of when we fly the American flag? The most extensive genocide in the history of the planet? Generations, nation wide , of relegating blacks to second class status? Generations of women denied enfranchisement? Internment of Japanese Americans during WWII?
Apparently it is possible to have pride in a faulty vessel.
What there is down here is *socioeconomic* elitism. It's an extension of the British class system, massaged by 400 years of slight separation. 'White trash' is a *serious* insult here. It insinuates that you are quite literally worthless, regardless of your skin color. The fact that most African-Americans feel disenfranchised here is, I honestly believe, more a product of the pseudo-caste system based on wealth than it is one of skin color. The latter is just an easier target for people to home in on when they don't have the intellect to come up with anything else to hate people for.
Hmmm. No sleep in 32 hours makes the above muddled. I have a point, really. :P
Originally posted by Kickaha
I've gotta say, I've seen less blatant racism living in NC than I did living in WA.
Hmmm. No sleep in 32 hours makes the above muddled. I have a point, really. :P
You better get some sleep!!!
Fellows
Originally posted by der Kopf
What part exactly? Enslaving generations of human beings? Ruthlessly beating those generations? Impregnating the daughters of those generations?
Or maybe you are proud of keeping down the generations following those enslaved generations? Directing them towards the back of the bus? Or denying them access to decent centers of education? Or of gutting 14 year old boys who have the audacity to wink at a white woman (Emmett Till)?
Maybe you are proud of being the nurturing ground for nutcases like the KKK?
I don't know. I'm asking. What exactly are you proud of?
yea, because the American flag doesn't "symbolize" any of that either
Originally posted by addabox
Well, what are we proud of when we fly the American flag?
I question I often ask myself, watching flag-toting cretins all over the place. But we were talking about the confederate flag, and I don't think changing the subject is a good or fruitful discussion strategy.
Originally posted by applenut
yea, because the American flag doesn't "symbolize" any of that either
See above. I'm sure the South-African flag symbolizes a lot of nastiness, as does the Belgian flag, but we are not talking about those. Sheesh.
And for the sake of completion: you will never find me waving, nay, displaying, an American flag (or any other flag) from any pole, car, piece of clothing or whatever, so you may as well pull those rolleyes back into thine skull, for they are not needed here.
I am not racist at all.
I was born in Louisiana, raised in Orange County, California, and have recently moved back to the south(Mississippi).
And you know what, the south has sooo much less crap, stupid agendas, and overall idiots, than anywhere else that I have lived, including the all-righteous California.
It is a Non-issue here, because it just doesnt matter. We are proud of our heritage(good or bad) and we aren't afraid of our past. Sure, some things happened that we are not proud of, but we have worked a long time and come a long way. We have learned from mistakes in the past, and have grown from them.
Unlike most other states, that seem to be doing nothing but rehashing old issues and never making any true progress.
People who do not live here, do not know anything about this issue. They need to figure out their own problems and stop trying to fix things that don't need to be fixed.
There is nothing wrong with the south. Nothing more than any other states in the union. In fact, I think the south has actually come to terms with things from the past and has grown so much more than other states.
If you don't like the rebel flag, fine. If you think the south is just a bunch of red neck nascar fans, fine..
But stop perpetuating stereotypes and misinformation. Its FUD, and you dont know what you are talking about. Keep it to yourself.