From what I understand, that flag design was carried into battle but caused so much confusion amidst the smoke of cannon and gun fire, that it had to be changed.
The later battle flag of diagonal stripes was based on the flag of St Andrew of Scotland the confederate soldiers took an emmediate shine to it... reverentially naming it the " Stars & Bars "
Ps i know that its off topic, but now I've got a hankering to redesign the Oz flag..Anyone know of nice easy piece of Mac software to design flags with ? Would prefer it it were classic ( 0S-9 ) or even 68K will do...cheers
apologies for bringing this back, but i saw an interesting thing 2 days ago. on my drive from college station to houston three days ago, i stopped in navasota for gas and noticed an interesting moment. an old white woman was going into the station wearing a confederacy-designed cap on her head, and a big black guy was holding the door open for her. i wonder what she was thinking...
wish i got a pic of that moment. seems like a texas classic in the making.
apologies for bringing this back, but i saw an interesting thing 2 days ago. on my drive from college station to houston three days ago, i stopped in navasota for gas and noticed an interesting moment. an old white woman was going into the station wearing a confederacy-designed cap on her head, and a big black guy was holding the door open for her. i wonder what she was thinking...
wish i got a pic of that moment. seems like a texas classic in the making.
She probably didn't think anything about it. In my experience (and I'm from the actual South, not the faux South of Texas), most of the folks who wear confederate flag looking hats don't think anything about it other than it's a hat and they like it.
My view of this isssue is that most people in the south look at the flag as a heritage issue (again, this perception stems from 22 years living there -- 18 really, but in college i still technically lived there)... On the other hand, flags outside of the south represent the ideology of white supremacy...
[B]I took a shit earlier. It's a part of my history.
I choose not to make a flag out of it, because it's feces.
Likewise, I would like to see the rebel battle flag removed from vehicles. Not by government force, of course, but I would like to see them relegated to history books and museums.
By the way, this is the flag of the Confederacy:
Actaully, no. That was the FIRST flag of the Confederacy, but was quickly taken out of usage because it looked too much like the evil American flag that those brave idiotic redneck slave holders were rebelling (or failing to rebel, as it turned out) against.
Hard to feel sorry for the devil. How many states in Germany have Swastikas in their flags? Duuuh. It's pretty simple. It's just as bad as the swastika and there are no two ways about it.
apologies for bringing this back, but i saw an interesting thing 2 days ago. on my drive from college station to houston three days ago, i stopped in navasota for gas and noticed an interesting moment. an old white woman was going into the station wearing a confederacy-designed cap on her head, and a big black guy was holding the door open for her. i wonder what she was thinking...
wish i got a pic of that moment. seems like a texas classic in the making.
I don't know. I don't normally assume that all people wearing the Rebel Flag are racist. If it truly means pride in Southern Heritage then I see no reason why Southern blacks don't proudly wear the flag. In fact I propose that they do just that. In fact if I was in the south right now I'd be telling folks to wear the flag as much as possible. If it truly stands for Southern Heritage and the Rebel Spirit then it's open for everyone.
This would destory the flags ability to be used as a hateful symbol. I would initially contract a minority to print up the Confederate Shirts. That way I could woo more blacks to my support cause because they would not be making a supremacist rich. Then we would slowly but surely appropriate the flag. Putting stickers on our cars....patches on our bags etc etc etc. We would in essence consume the flag and eat any harmful potential it may harbor.
The reason why this would work say versus wearing a Klan outfit is that proponents of the Confed Flag say it's not about race superiority but rather heritage and spirit. There is your glaring loophole. Whoop whooop!
How many states in Germany have Swastikas in their flags? Duuuh. It's pretty simple. It's just as bad as the swastika and there are no two ways about it.
Isn't it illegal to be a Nazi in Germany? That analogy doesn't work; and not for just that reason.
Someone correct me if I am wrong. The KKK borrowed the hood/ensemble from Christian, or more precisely, past Catholic ritual. At some point one of the Pope's said, "Get rid of this attire. It reminds us of the Inquisition." The church now openly admits to this shameful period in history. So the get-up is now only worn on religious holidays in a few areas of Spain. Possibly even fewer parts of Portugal, Italy and France.
The point being, the church officially dumpped these historical artifacts.
I'm very proud of my Norwegian, German, Irish heritage. I'm a proud white man. I am also an angry white man. Angry at the myopia TOO many of my white brothers and sisters suffer from. I lived a total of 15 years in the south (east Texas to Florida). Most white people that I met (with some exceptions...) in all that time, that displayed the conferderate flag as a symbol of "pride", in one form or another, I considered to be IGNORANT. Now, they could be decent, hard working and devout folks. They could just be a**holes. If you display that flag and feel that it's your right as a proud Southerner you are being ignorant. So much oppression was carried out in the name of that flag, that it's about time for it to be relegated to the historical archives.
I know there are many Southerners like Groverat that take delight in the knowledge of history. That's a beautiful thing and not the same as displaying the Stars and Bars for pride.
I agree that political correctness gets carried out to rediculous extremes in our American society. However, there is a time and place for it. Now is the time to turn that flag over to the historians.
So much oppression was carried out in the name of that flag, that it's about time for it to be relegated to the historical archives.
Actually, as a Northerner (okay, Northwesterner) who thought that the Confederate flag was exactly that, but has since moved to the South...
As I was told it, the current flag flown as the Confederate flag was actually a battle flag designed to honor the soldiers... *WITHOUT* having the overt political overtones of the flag of the CSA... which it wasn't. (See, to my eyes, before I came down here, I thought it *was* the CSA flag. Twasn't.) (Interesting 'last CSA flag' earlier, just saw it. Hmm.)
As someone who feels that most footsoldiers are pawns anyway, no matter who is behind them, and that anyone who dies feeling that they're doing right by their homeland *regardless of the idiocy of their political leaders* should be given a nod, I no longer have a lot of problems with the flag as originally intended.
The fact that it was then co-opted by a bunch of ignorant rednecked sonsabitches is a sad footnote.
However...
I carry a Visa card that has an American flag splattered on it. My old one had become unreadable about Nov 2001, and post-9/11, everything *had* to have a flag on it, so of course the new default had the stars and stripes. (Or, "Supporting the war with every swipe!" as my wife put it.) I very nearly sent it back and requested one without it... but reconsidered. Why the hell should I let go of a symbol that actually *does* have meaning for me, just because some idiots I disagree with have decided to slap it on their SUVs willynilly and more or less abuse it more than anyone burning it could?
If anything, I'm more upset by the commercial use of it than the fact that it's the American flag.
Gawdammit, it's my flag too, and it'll stand for what *I* want it to stand for, in my own mind.
Which, to bring this back on topic, is precisely what I think should happen with the Confederate flag. hmurchison is right. Take back the f*cker.
Man, you heard wrong. They weren't enemies of the Union states, per se. They were enemies of what the Union states had decided to force upon them. In one fell swoop, slavery would have been gone, which was what fueled the Southern economy. They weren't fighting because of hatred...they were fighting out of desperation.
I disagree with you. The north wasn't going to come down in a fell swoop and end slavery. Lincoln said in is election speech that he wanted the spread of slavery to end but, the existing slave states can stay as slave states. The south misunderstood his speech and thought that he was going to get rid of slavery altogether. So when the south broke to form the confederate states Lincoln had a tough decision to make. Which was send supplies to a south fort and risk lives; or don't send supplies to the fort and knowledge the confederatcy. He had sent supplies and the south attacked the fort before the supplies could get there wqhich started the civil war.
Back on topic, I think people can display the confederate flag on their property but, can't go on the streets and wave it in the public.
i get very irrtated when i see people like you that want to talk about the confederate flag like it is some big crime to honor it or fly it or respect it......Well let me tell you something about the confederate flag that most of you don't know.i live in the south actually i live in Louisiana,and i live in a city where ouor court house still has the same tree that we used for hanging any and everybody that commited a crime not just black people but white,hispanic,mexican,and even chinese people and louisiana was the last confederate state after the civil war and now you want to talk about slavery and you want to talk about hatred thats fine everyone is entitled to their own opinion nothing wrong with that but even black people served under the confederate flag not because they had to but because they wanted to becasue the government told them that for on year or two years of duty as soon as they signed their name on that piece of paper that they were free men.....and down here where i live EVERYONE flys a confederate flag right next to an american flag because thats telling anyone that you want to screw with america then you haft to screw with us first and as far as the KKK nobody down here where i live likes those people because they think that killing anybody thats not american is GOD's will is not they just use the confederate flag as an excuse and frankly it pisses some of us TRUE southerner's off because its not GOD's will to kill anyone i don't care who it is and also i would like to add that here in Louisiana black people also fly and respect the confederate flag and some along with white people don't care so in closing if you want to hear the TRUTH about the confederate flag just post it and i'll amswer.
And by the way, do you know where the other part of your flag came from? Look closely:
Imagine clipping off the side with the nazi cross. Then turning it all 90° counterclockwise. What do you see? Yep. Check your atlases.
It's France! Talk about opposites attracting!
umm by they way that little picture of the confederate flag next to a french flag isn't real so you needto calm down because i know what every confederate flag looks like so you need to look up the real flags ok so why don't you just calm down
Uh oh, he already started another thread to say this some more.
Mr. Southern Pride, sir? Thread is two and a half years old. Many of the original participants are dead or have been incarcerated. At least one has received sexual reassignment surgery.
There's striking while the iron is hot, there's beating a dead horse, and then there's delivering your stinging rebuttal in the burned out ruins of the house where they slandered your name.
Also, if you want anyone to know "the truth" about anything I would recommend offering it in something other than single-spaced paragraph long run-on sentences, which sort of have that uni-bomber vibe
You may be disgusted by what you think you know, but that flaf NEVER flew over a slave trader ship, the American Flag did, in a different time, I am southern and I do civil war reenacting, NOT to say that I agree that slavery was good, but it is a part of our history, and how can you know where you are going unless you can learn from where you have been? Now before you condemn the south, why don't you do some research and find out how many slaves were in the northern states, and read Abe Lincoln's emancipation proclamation very carefully first.
Comments
I assume it's an original ?
From what I understand, that flag design was carried into battle but caused so much confusion amidst the smoke of cannon and gun fire, that it had to be changed.
The later battle flag of diagonal stripes was based on the flag of St Andrew of Scotland the confederate soldiers took an emmediate shine to it... reverentially naming it the " Stars & Bars "
Ps i know that its off topic, but now I've got a hankering to redesign the Oz flag..Anyone know of nice easy piece of Mac software to design flags with ? Would prefer it it were classic ( 0S-9 ) or even 68K will do...cheers
wish i got a pic of that moment. seems like a texas classic in the making.
Originally posted by _ alliance _
apologies for bringing this back, but i saw an interesting thing 2 days ago. on my drive from college station to houston three days ago, i stopped in navasota for gas and noticed an interesting moment. an old white woman was going into the station wearing a confederacy-designed cap on her head, and a big black guy was holding the door open for her. i wonder what she was thinking...
wish i got a pic of that moment. seems like a texas classic in the making.
She probably didn't think anything about it. In my experience (and I'm from the actual South, not the faux South of Texas), most of the folks who wear confederate flag looking hats don't think anything about it other than it's a hat and they like it.
In the meantime: The case of Emmitt Till has been reopened. I suggest that while you're on your break you watch Mississippi Burning, Ghosts of Mississippi and 4 Little Girls. Maybe, over summer break, you can take a Civil Rights tour?
Cheers
Scott
Originally posted by groverat
[B]I took a shit earlier. It's a part of my history.
I choose not to make a flag out of it, because it's feces.
Likewise, I would like to see the rebel battle flag removed from vehicles. Not by government force, of course, but I would like to see them relegated to history books and museums.
By the way, this is the flag of the Confederacy:
Actaully, no. That was the FIRST flag of the Confederacy, but was quickly taken out of usage because it looked too much like the evil American flag that those brave idiotic redneck slave holders were rebelling (or failing to rebel, as it turned out) against.
This is the final flag of the Confederacy.
Originally posted by groverat
I took a shit earlier. It's a part of my history.
I choose not to make a flag out of it, because it's feces.
Reminds me of the Mr Show episode where the founding fathers are discussing making the US flag out of feces...
"Who would shit on a flag made out of shit? It would be an empty gesture."
Sherman is my hero.
Hard to feel sorry for the devil. How many states in Germany have Swastikas in their flags? Duuuh. It's pretty simple. It's just as bad as the swastika and there are no two ways about it.
apologies for bringing this back, but i saw an interesting thing 2 days ago. on my drive from college station to houston three days ago, i stopped in navasota for gas and noticed an interesting moment. an old white woman was going into the station wearing a confederacy-designed cap on her head, and a big black guy was holding the door open for her. i wonder what she was thinking...
wish i got a pic of that moment. seems like a texas classic in the making.
I don't know. I don't normally assume that all people wearing the Rebel Flag are racist. If it truly means pride in Southern Heritage then I see no reason why Southern blacks don't proudly wear the flag. In fact I propose that they do just that. In fact if I was in the south right now I'd be telling folks to wear the flag as much as possible. If it truly stands for Southern Heritage and the Rebel Spirit then it's open for everyone.
This would destory the flags ability to be used as a hateful symbol. I would initially contract a minority to print up the Confederate Shirts. That way I could woo more blacks to my support cause because they would not be making a supremacist rich. Then we would slowly but surely appropriate the flag. Putting stickers on our cars....patches on our bags etc etc etc. We would in essence consume the flag and eat any harmful potential it may harbor.
The reason why this would work say versus wearing a Klan outfit is that proponents of the Confed Flag say it's not about race superiority but rather heritage and spirit. There is your glaring loophole. Whoop whooop!
Originally posted by Aquatic
How many states in Germany have Swastikas in their flags? Duuuh. It's pretty simple. It's just as bad as the swastika and there are no two ways about it.
Isn't it illegal to be a Nazi in Germany? That analogy doesn't work; and not for just that reason.
The point being, the church officially dumpped these historical artifacts.
I'm very proud of my Norwegian, German, Irish heritage. I'm a proud white man. I am also an angry white man. Angry at the myopia TOO many of my white brothers and sisters suffer from. I lived a total of 15 years in the south (east Texas to Florida). Most white people that I met (with some exceptions...) in all that time, that displayed the conferderate flag as a symbol of "pride", in one form or another, I considered to be IGNORANT. Now, they could be decent, hard working and devout folks. They could just be a**holes. If you display that flag and feel that it's your right as a proud Southerner you are being ignorant. So much oppression was carried out in the name of that flag, that it's about time for it to be relegated to the historical archives.
I know there are many Southerners like Groverat that take delight in the knowledge of history. That's a beautiful thing and not the same as displaying the Stars and Bars for pride.
I agree that political correctness gets carried out to rediculous extremes in our American society. However, there is a time and place for it. Now is the time to turn that flag over to the historians.
Just my .02c
Originally posted by hardhead
So much oppression was carried out in the name of that flag, that it's about time for it to be relegated to the historical archives.
Actually, as a Northerner (okay, Northwesterner) who thought that the Confederate flag was exactly that, but has since moved to the South...
As I was told it, the current flag flown as the Confederate flag was actually a battle flag designed to honor the soldiers... *WITHOUT* having the overt political overtones of the flag of the CSA... which it wasn't. (See, to my eyes, before I came down here, I thought it *was* the CSA flag. Twasn't.) (Interesting 'last CSA flag' earlier, just saw it. Hmm.)
As someone who feels that most footsoldiers are pawns anyway, no matter who is behind them, and that anyone who dies feeling that they're doing right by their homeland *regardless of the idiocy of their political leaders* should be given a nod, I no longer have a lot of problems with the flag as originally intended.
The fact that it was then co-opted by a bunch of ignorant rednecked sonsabitches is a sad footnote.
However...
I carry a Visa card that has an American flag splattered on it. My old one had become unreadable about Nov 2001, and post-9/11, everything *had* to have a flag on it, so of course the new default had the stars and stripes. (Or, "Supporting the war with every swipe!" as my wife put it.) I very nearly sent it back and requested one without it... but reconsidered. Why the hell should I let go of a symbol that actually *does* have meaning for me, just because some idiots I disagree with have decided to slap it on their SUVs willynilly and more or less abuse it more than anyone burning it could?
If anything, I'm more upset by the commercial use of it than the fact that it's the American flag.
Gawdammit, it's my flag too, and it'll stand for what *I* want it to stand for, in my own mind.
Which, to bring this back on topic, is precisely what I think should happen with the Confederate flag. hmurchison is right. Take back the f*cker.
People get this stupid sense that they and their symbols represent that which is "the best" or certainly "better" than every other option.
This is such childish and immature behavior.
We are all people. Not Americans, not Iraqis, not French.
People that argue at Nascar races over Ford Vs/ Chevrolet that is what ignorance and pride reduces us to.
Who is better, who is better, who is right, who is wrong.
I say grow up, trash the stupid ignorant pride and suck it in and admit we are all people and need to live and let live in a mature and civil manner.
Fellowship
Originally posted by Eugene
Man, you heard wrong. They weren't enemies of the Union states, per se. They were enemies of what the Union states had decided to force upon them. In one fell swoop, slavery would have been gone, which was what fueled the Southern economy. They weren't fighting because of hatred...they were fighting out of desperation.
I disagree with you. The north wasn't going to come down in a fell swoop and end slavery. Lincoln said in is election speech that he wanted the spread of slavery to end but, the existing slave states can stay as slave states. The south misunderstood his speech and thought that he was going to get rid of slavery altogether. So when the south broke to form the confederate states Lincoln had a tough decision to make. Which was send supplies to a south fort and risk lives; or don't send supplies to the fort and knowledge the confederatcy. He had sent supplies and the south attacked the fort before the supplies could get there wqhich started the civil war.
Back on topic, I think people can display the confederate flag on their property but, can't go on the streets and wave it in the public.
"Pride commeth before the fall..." Sad but true.
We as a race, the human race, are so far away from that ideal, it ain't even funny.
The Frenchy had it right. This is the planet of the Apes...
i get very irrtated when i see people like you that want to talk about the confederate flag like it is some big crime to honor it or fly it or respect it......Well let me tell you something about the confederate flag that most of you don't know.i live in the south actually i live in Louisiana,and i live in a city where ouor court house still has the same tree that we used for hanging any and everybody that commited a crime not just black people but white,hispanic,mexican,and even chinese people and louisiana was the last confederate state after the civil war and now you want to talk about slavery and you want to talk about hatred thats fine everyone is entitled to their own opinion nothing wrong with that but even black people served under the confederate flag not because they had to but because they wanted to becasue the government told them that for on year or two years of duty as soon as they signed their name on that piece of paper that they were free men.....and down here where i live EVERYONE flys a confederate flag right next to an american flag because thats telling anyone that you want to screw with america then you haft to screw with us first and as far as the KKK nobody down here where i live likes those people because they think that killing anybody thats not american is GOD's will is not they just use the confederate flag as an excuse and frankly it pisses some of us TRUE southerner's off because its not GOD's will to kill anyone i don't care who it is and also i would like to add that here in Louisiana black people also fly and respect the confederate flag and some along with white people don't care so in closing if you want to hear the TRUTH about the confederate flag just post it and i'll amswer.
And by the way, do you know where the other part of your flag came from? Look closely:
Imagine clipping off the side with the nazi cross. Then turning it all 90° counterclockwise. What do you see? Yep. Check your atlases.
It's France! Talk about opposites attracting!
umm by they way that little picture of the confederate flag next to a french flag isn't real so you needto calm down because i know what every confederate flag looks like so you need to look up the real flags ok so why don't you just calm down
Uh oh, he already started another thread to say this some more.
Mr. Southern Pride, sir? Thread is two and a half years old. Many of the original participants are dead or have been incarcerated. At least one has received sexual reassignment surgery.
There's striking while the iron is hot, there's beating a dead horse, and then there's delivering your stinging rebuttal in the burned out ruins of the house where they slandered your name.
It's just not sensible.