i must say... mac users dont know what theyre missing.. to be able to modify every aspect of your computers is a very beneficial part of a personalized computer. macs miss out on this.. and windows is getting better! either that or its linux time!
but anyways.. im doing close to the same thing.. cept im doing it with a much smaller Macintosh Classic II case and im gonna mod a bunch of hardware to fit into it...
this guy... wasnt stupid, i proly woulda done close to the same thing, cept i woulda tried to use the mac parts some how... like set em up somewhere else in the room to another monitor
oh, and if there were a buncha guys like this one.. it wouldnt hurt u guys at all... dont be pathetic, apple gets paid for each guy like this one!
eh? you're not going to sway the opinion of a die-hard mac user*looks at the name of this site* anymore than we could hope to sway the opinion of a die-hard PC user.
It's not unlike arguing over religion, or politics, or anything else that people like to cling to.
Personally, I have always and will always use macs if I can help it, and nothing anyone can say is going to change that, does that mean I hate PCs and windows? not at all, I have a PC at home, great toy for gaming, is it useful for anything else? it might be, but nothing my mac can't handle, so I don't need to look into it.
As has been stated here, and on many of the other forums this topic has dropped on, the mac vs. PC war is over, and like many wars, no one won.
i must say... mac users dont know what theyre missing.. to be able to modify every aspect of your computers is a very beneficial part of a personalized computer. macs miss out on this
But I don't want to tweak every little bit of my system. I want a computer I can use, a computer I can be productive on. I'm just not into toying with computer bits.
It's just me, I guess. I prefer t write software. I enjoy that, and OS X has the best developer tools I've come across. Plus already installed Java support, UNIX, Xcode, etc...
I want to work on this stuff, without having to mess around with the computer's innards.
is it useful for anything else? it might be, but nothing my mac can't handle
ehh.. ur mac can play pc games? all by itself? how cute
Quote:
I want to work on this stuff, without having to mess around with the computer's innards.
thats the beauty of PCs, you dont HAVE to mess with it unless you are able to, thats what seperates PC standards of people. the better knowing people can make their pc do whatever they want it to, and the lesser knowing people can learn to... or.. u can play GAMES *gamer* hehe
ehh.. ur mac can play pc games? all by itself? how cute
Come on chum, you're not doing anything for the image of pc users on this forum
I'm not much of a gamer first and foremost, I use my mac mainly for music production and image editing(As well as all the basics; chat, internet, listening to music, watching dvds...etc)
the games I play the most are Warcraft 3, and have just recently started playing the frozen throne, both games run smoothly at max graphics settings.
also, I play fallout 2 which runs perfectly(granted this isn't a very GPU intensive game)
There are 2 games on windows that I wish were on Mac OS X
1) savage, which is just damn fun
2) call of duty, the best FPS to hit any platform in a long time
call of duty is being ported currently which is cool, I don't know about savage though, which is kind of a bummer, but it's probably better I don't get too caught up in gaming, I do have better things to do with my time you know
ehh.. ur mac can play pc games? all by itself? how cute
And there we have it.
Recently, a friend of mine was talking about getting a new PC. He knows I'm a Mac guy, and asked me what I thought he should get. Well, duh, get a G5 I said. "Yeah, but I can't get the programs I want on a Mac." Yeah, right. I asked "Do you mean programs or games???" Kind of palefaced, he of couse said "games". "Build a new PC then, I'll help."
i'm sorry, but anyone who would do that to a brand new dual G5 is a fool.
i know he wanted the case, but there had to be a better way to get one. i would have at least understood if he used it for a week or two and hated it, at least that would make some sense.
hell, if someone gave me a flagship Xeon machine i'd use it before i decided to trash it.
he wanted to "surf the web and do DVD's and stuff" he seriously downgraded if that's what he wanted to get done. as for gaming, he's now stuck with a PCI video card. most worthwhile games are going to play like crap now anyway.
(edit) if you want to play Savage (great game) just partition your drive and put YD linux on your machine. Savage is Linux and Windows capable.
But wait!!! Unix is cool and totally uber-1337, so by definition a Mac can't have it installed. Plus, unix is amazingly configurable, and we all know that Macs are limited, proprietary systems on which you can never change any settings whatsoever (you can't even change the desktop picture! I know because all the macs I've seen in advertisements have the same desktop picture). Also, it takes knowledge to use unix properly, but Macs are only for the weak of mind (I knew a Mac user once who was dumb!).
Ipso-facto, you must be mistaken about unix being installed.
This thread has been interesting to me to say the least. I too came from forums.extremeoverclocking.com and I fear that PC users are taking a bashing over here so here comes another soldier. First of all, I'm not going to try to change your opinion because thats as pointless as the countless religious and political debates online. Instead i'll try to justtify my view on macs which hopefully reflect a larger population of computer users. One issue i believe everyone (with a bit of sense) can agree on is that the person who took the guts out of the G5 only to mess up the case and give the parts away was a complete moron. Also, I'v heard some people talk about the "Wintel camp". I'm going to asume from the anme that this refers to the people who are diehard intel and windows fanboys. Believe me, many of us in PC-land dislike these people as much as you do. Someone also said something about windows being a biggy piece of crap and that OSX is superior, and I completely agree. Windows (windoze, winblows, ect) sucks and I would probably venture to say that is the worst OS out there. There are many alternatives to this such as BSD and Linux which a growing number or people are turning to. Finally, even tho I will most likely never (not soon anyway) buy a mac for mersonal use, there is nothing wrong with them. They are great for graphics and video editing and do music as well as a PC. They do look great and are nice machines that don't need any tinkering to make work correctly, but on the counterpoint, neither do dells. The advantade of PCs is a larger amount of support in the games dept. however if you don't play games, and many people don't, then it comes down to a matter of personal preference much like choosing your flavor of icecream. As for me, i'll continue to use my overclocked AMD system and tinkering with linux because it does everything I need it to for a nice price but if I had the funds I would definetly at least try a mac. btw, if any of you with both kinds of systems want to try and overclock you PC or have any questions, then forums.extremeoverclockign.com is definetly the place to go. (ok, so I couldn't help put put a little ad )
PS - after looking up in this page i saw someone mention abbout overclocking - why ould you want to? because its fun. i don't need to OC my amd 2500+ but it is fun seeing how far i can take it, much the same way people enjoy drag racing.
hey, i used to be a platform gamer, but realized a few years back it was stupid in this day and age. you can buy a console for a few hundred bucks, and play games (other than FPS'es) as well or better than on almost any gaming machines.
(if you're a huge FPS fan you're still pretty much on a PC box)
seriously though, consoles are great for gaming, PC's are overpriced to get the job done, and you have a slew of isses associated with it, like viruses, trojans, cheaters online etc.
(if you want to steal games/download them, you can always mod your Xbox whatever and play games for free on consoles too)
i just have a hard time swallowing the $1,500 on a decent gaming machine when a console would run you $200.
thats a very good point. my main complaint with comsoles is that if i want to play every game i may be interested in then i have to buy several consoles. throw in another couple hundred bucks and it will get you online, play DVDs, burn cds, play music, any game you could ever want to play, get online, watch and record TV in a tivo-like fashion, run linux, and allow me to enjoy the hardware aspect, tinkering with the art of modifying a case and wiring fans, ect, building a custon watercooling setup, ect that a console won't allow me to. contrary to popular belief, a VERY VERY nice PC that will iterally do everything related to digital entartainment would not cost over $1000. may not be the most extreme, hardcore, or whatever system, but it will be nice. and i didn't have to buy a tivo box, vcr, tv, PS2, xbox, radio or DVD player to do the same thing. counterpoint - its hard to use a KB/mouse, even wireless optical, when you just wanna crash on the couch and play for a bit.
First, a warm AppleInsider welcome to all our new PC-using readers.
I'd just like to make a few points, since the discussion is starting to go back toward platform comparisons.
1) A lot of the rage here about this mod is stirred up by the way the guy trashed a $3K present by turning it into a lame PC; and the rest is because the Mac is, if anything, hopelessly overqualified for the stated uses he had for it, and he never even gave it a chance. I don't think PC users realize it, but Mac users are familiar with having their platform of choice rejected out of hand when it's not actively trashed, and if we're a little bitter about that it's understandable. There are a lot of professionals here. If Windows really was as good for our purposes, and if there really were the sort of severe shortcomings to Macs that people seem to believe in, then we would use Windows. It's certainly the safer choice, and we wouldn't be constantly thrown on the defensive about our tool of choice.
2) Any discussion of "user friendliness" has to take the nature of the user into account. Macs have always been aimed intentionally at people who are not gearheads, and who don't consider themselves technically inclined, or who just don't want to bother. They're friendly toward those users. Obviously, if the user likes to be able to rewrite the CPU bus protocols to try to improve memory access latency while running Medal of Honor, this approach is probably going to fall short. This is where some of the mutual incomprehension in this thread about what "user friendliness" consists of comes from.
That said, if any of you have had the chance to play with a G5, you'd know that Apple has made it absurdly easy to get inside and upgrade hard drives and RAM, and PCI and AGP cards. That might not be enough for Real Programmers who assemble their own PCs from boards and ASICs and write their own hardware drivers in raw machine code, but it's enough for the majority of people who need an upgradable machine. So I propose that we recognize that the different platforms are aimed at different kinds of users in this case (although there are certainly Mac tweakers, and the limits of the platform in that area force them to be remarkably ingenious), and leave it at that.
A few things you might not know about Macs:
1) OS X is a monolithic kernel, consisting of a modified Mach fused to a larger kernel that includes (and looks for all the world like) a BSD. Specifically, FreeBSD, although bits and pieces are taken from OpenBSD as well. BSD guru Jordan Hubbard is an Apple employee now. He actually lobbied Apple to hire him.
2) If you want a two-button mouse, grab one (as long as it's USB) and plug it in. The second button and the scroll wheel work automatically, with no additional configuration or drivers required.
3) OS X has Samba 3 built in, for compatibility with Windows networks. Apple was the first commercial vendor to support TCP/IP networking, and its reputation for poor networking is baffling to Apple users; as far as I can tell it consists almost entirely of one bug in one version of AppleTalk and lack of compatibility with Windows networks - but that happens when Microsoft makes a proprietary protocol that's difficult to reverse engineer, changes it constantly, and doesn't publish a spec. I remember a lab full of Macs networked together, running Word off a server ... in 1989.
4) Macs can run Office, and read and write PC Office file formats even without it, partly with native functionality and partly with help from third party apps like DataViz' MacLinkPlus. I swap files with people all the time, and they never guess that I don't read them or alter them in anything other than Office for Windows unless I tell them.
5) There are no viruses, worms, or trojans for OS X. This is not simply because of the number of Macs: http://www.army.mil was a major victim of hackers until they changed the server to a Mac (in 1998 or thereabouts). The number of successful hacks since this previously targeted and very high-profile web site was hosted on a Mac: 0. You can lock down a Windows PC so that it's about as secure as a Mac, but you have to know what you're doing and keep up with updates and disable features and sometimes whole applications. Macs are already secure when you pull them out of the box, and you can use the default email client with impunity because it doesn't auto-run attachments behind your back without your even having clicked on the email. All network services are off by default, and the firewall (ipfw) is on by default. The OS requires a password before anything can modify the folder hierarchy that the system is stored in. In sum, OS X has no exploits because Apple made damn sure that it was hard to exploit.
6) This may not surprise you, but there aren't a lot of Mac gamers. There are probably more now, but by and large Macs are used for productivity - specifically, the sort of creative productivity that's its own kind of fun. The lack of games isn't really an argument for a lot of us. I know that I personally am content with the three or so shareware games I keep around. Speaking of that, the Mac does have some really kick-ass shareware games.
It surprises many folks, on seeing my Apple-logo-branded laptop, that I don't do music. I don't do video. I don't even do graphics.
I code.
Specifically, I do research into the theoretical foundations of software engineering, and produce practical toolsets to analyze large codebases in meaningful ways.
Geek stuff.
And you know what? While I could, in theory, do it on a PC, having a solid Unix core means I can use any number of excellent packages out there for Python, dynamic library analysis, X11 and such without any mucking about or modifications. (It also means that my laptop gets about four months between reboots. )
MacOS X is just the best tool for the job I do, bar none. Spent many years in the Wintel world (and the HP/UX world, the SGI world, and even some time over in Sun-nyvale), and quite simply nothing else comes close, for my needs.
Comments
but anyways.. im doing close to the same thing.. cept im doing it with a much smaller Macintosh Classic II case and im gonna mod a bunch of hardware to fit into it...
this guy... wasnt stupid, i proly woulda done close to the same thing, cept i woulda tried to use the mac parts some how... like set em up somewhere else in the room to another monitor
oh, and if there were a buncha guys like this one.. it wouldnt hurt u guys at all... dont be pathetic, apple gets paid for each guy like this one!
Originally posted by jkink88
... we have a bit of a population advantage... ahhh about 95%-5%. No matter how good ya shite is you wouldn't stand a chance.
I'm sorry, I just don't get this.
Stand a chance? You say it like you're a friggin Borg. What does that mean? That by numbers you are superior and will conquer the Mac infidels?
Let's put this into perspective:
95% think that Bud Light is a beer.
95% think that Kraft MacN'Cheeze is a dinner food.
95% think that Inside Edition is a news show.
Hmmm. I guess I'm in the 5% then.
Does that make me an elitist? I don't know, really.
Am I happy I don't have a taste for Bud Light? Hell yes.
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.co...threadid=84348 is where i came from
It's not unlike arguing over religion, or politics, or anything else that people like to cling to.
Personally, I have always and will always use macs if I can help it, and nothing anyone can say is going to change that, does that mean I hate PCs and windows? not at all, I have a PC at home, great toy for gaming, is it useful for anything else? it might be, but nothing my mac can't handle, so I don't need to look into it.
As has been stated here, and on many of the other forums this topic has dropped on, the mac vs. PC war is over, and like many wars, no one won.
Originally posted by Padishah
i must say... mac users dont know what theyre missing.. to be able to modify every aspect of your computers is a very beneficial part of a personalized computer. macs miss out on this
But I don't want to tweak every little bit of my system. I want a computer I can use, a computer I can be productive on. I'm just not into toying with computer bits.
It's just me, I guess. I prefer t write software. I enjoy that, and OS X has the best developer tools I've come across. Plus already installed Java support, UNIX, Xcode, etc...
I want to work on this stuff, without having to mess around with the computer's innards.
My $0.02. m.
is it useful for anything else? it might be, but nothing my mac can't handle
ehh.. ur mac can play pc games?
I want to work on this stuff, without having to mess around with the computer's innards.
thats the beauty of PCs, you dont HAVE to mess with it unless you are able to, thats what seperates PC standards of people. the better knowing people can make their pc do whatever they want it to, and the lesser knowing people can learn to... or.. u can play GAMES
Originally posted by Padishah
lol and btw... thx to this thread... you're getting more populated with PC users who like to read ur PC flames
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.co...threadid=84348 is where i came from
From that forum:
EOC Forum: oasked
lol...that G5 may not be as fast as a 3Ghz PC...
Need I say more. Aaarrgghh!!!
And another:
EOC Forum: oasked
what an idiot, if i had gotten a new G5 i would have installed Unix and had it folding/playing chess 24/7.
It already has UNIX installed.
Clueless, absolutely clueless...
These guys say Macs are crap because you can't play games on them. So? If I wanted a gaming machine I would buy a PC, but I am not a gaming guy... m.
Originally posted by Padishah
ehh.. ur mac can play pc games?
Come on chum, you're not doing anything for the image of pc users on this forum
I'm not much of a gamer first and foremost, I use my mac mainly for music production and image editing(As well as all the basics; chat, internet, listening to music, watching dvds...etc)
the games I play the most are Warcraft 3, and have just recently started playing the frozen throne, both games run smoothly at max graphics settings.
also, I play fallout 2 which runs perfectly(granted this isn't a very GPU intensive game)
There are 2 games on windows that I wish were on Mac OS X
1) savage, which is just damn fun
2) call of duty, the best FPS to hit any platform in a long time
call of duty is being ported currently which is cool, I don't know about savage though, which is kind of a bummer, but it's probably better I don't get too caught up in gaming, I do have better things to do with my time you know
Originally posted by Padishah
ehh.. ur mac can play pc games?
And there we have it.
Recently, a friend of mine was talking about getting a new PC. He knows I'm a Mac guy, and asked me what I thought he should get. Well, duh, get a G5 I said. "Yeah, but I can't get the programs I want on a Mac."
i know he wanted the case, but there had to be a better way to get one. i would have at least understood if he used it for a week or two and hated it, at least that would make some sense.
hell, if someone gave me a flagship Xeon machine i'd use it before i decided to trash it.
he wanted to "surf the web and do DVD's and stuff" he seriously downgraded if that's what he wanted to get done. as for gaming, he's now stuck with a PCI video card. most worthwhile games are going to play like crap now anyway.
(edit) if you want to play Savage (great game) just partition your drive and put YD linux on your machine. Savage is Linux and Windows capable.
Originally posted by Merovingian
It already has UNIX installed.
Clueless, absolutely clueless...
But wait!!! Unix is cool and totally uber-1337, so by definition a Mac can't have it installed. Plus, unix is amazingly configurable, and we all know that Macs are limited, proprietary systems on which you can never change any settings whatsoever (you can't even change the desktop picture! I know because all the macs I've seen in advertisements have the same desktop picture). Also, it takes knowledge to use unix properly, but Macs are only for the weak of mind (I knew a Mac user once who was dumb!).
Ipso-facto, you must be mistaken about unix being installed.
Originally posted by alcimedes
(edit) if you want to play Savage (great game) just partition your drive and put YD linux on your machine. Savage is Linux and Windows capable.
!!!
that's an awesome idea man! hmm..I have 30 GB left on my HD, would it be difficult to do? I've never used linux...hmm, I'm intrigued though.
PS - after looking up in this page i saw someone mention abbout overclocking - why ould you want to? because its fun. i don't need to OC my amd 2500+ but it is fun seeing how far i can take it, much the same way people enjoy drag racing.
(if you're a huge FPS fan you're still pretty much on a PC box)
seriously though, consoles are great for gaming, PC's are overpriced to get the job done, and you have a slew of isses associated with it, like viruses, trojans, cheaters online etc.
(if you want to steal games/download them, you can always mod your Xbox whatever and play games for free on consoles too)
i just have a hard time swallowing the $1,500 on a decent gaming machine when a console would run you $200.
I'd just like to make a few points, since the discussion is starting to go back toward platform comparisons.
1) A lot of the rage here about this mod is stirred up by the way the guy trashed a $3K present by turning it into a lame PC; and the rest is because the Mac is, if anything, hopelessly overqualified for the stated uses he had for it, and he never even gave it a chance. I don't think PC users realize it, but Mac users are familiar with having their platform of choice rejected out of hand when it's not actively trashed, and if we're a little bitter about that it's understandable. There are a lot of professionals here. If Windows really was as good for our purposes, and if there really were the sort of severe shortcomings to Macs that people seem to believe in, then we would use Windows. It's certainly the safer choice, and we wouldn't be constantly thrown on the defensive about our tool of choice.
2) Any discussion of "user friendliness" has to take the nature of the user into account. Macs have always been aimed intentionally at people who are not gearheads, and who don't consider themselves technically inclined, or who just don't want to bother. They're friendly toward those users. Obviously, if the user likes to be able to rewrite the CPU bus protocols to try to improve memory access latency while running Medal of Honor, this approach is probably going to fall short. This is where some of the mutual incomprehension in this thread about what "user friendliness" consists of comes from.
That said, if any of you have had the chance to play with a G5, you'd know that Apple has made it absurdly easy to get inside and upgrade hard drives and RAM, and PCI and AGP cards. That might not be enough for Real Programmers who assemble their own PCs from boards and ASICs and write their own hardware drivers in raw machine code, but it's enough for the majority of people who need an upgradable machine. So I propose that we recognize that the different platforms are aimed at different kinds of users in this case (although there are certainly Mac tweakers, and the limits of the platform in that area force them to be remarkably ingenious), and leave it at that.
A few things you might not know about Macs:
1) OS X is a monolithic kernel, consisting of a modified Mach fused to a larger kernel that includes (and looks for all the world like) a BSD. Specifically, FreeBSD, although bits and pieces are taken from OpenBSD as well. BSD guru Jordan Hubbard is an Apple employee now. He actually lobbied Apple to hire him.
2) If you want a two-button mouse, grab one (as long as it's USB) and plug it in. The second button and the scroll wheel work automatically, with no additional configuration or drivers required.
3) OS X has Samba 3 built in, for compatibility with Windows networks. Apple was the first commercial vendor to support TCP/IP networking, and its reputation for poor networking is baffling to Apple users; as far as I can tell it consists almost entirely of one bug in one version of AppleTalk and lack of compatibility with Windows networks - but that happens when Microsoft makes a proprietary protocol that's difficult to reverse engineer, changes it constantly, and doesn't publish a spec. I remember a lab full of Macs networked together, running Word off a server ... in 1989.
4) Macs can run Office, and read and write PC Office file formats even without it, partly with native functionality and partly with help from third party apps like DataViz' MacLinkPlus. I swap files with people all the time, and they never guess that I don't read them or alter them in anything other than Office for Windows unless I tell them.
5) There are no viruses, worms, or trojans for OS X. This is not simply because of the number of Macs: http://www.army.mil was a major victim of hackers until they changed the server to a Mac (in 1998 or thereabouts). The number of successful hacks since this previously targeted and very high-profile web site was hosted on a Mac: 0. You can lock down a Windows PC so that it's about as secure as a Mac, but you have to know what you're doing and keep up with updates and disable features and sometimes whole applications. Macs are already secure when you pull them out of the box, and you can use the default email client with impunity because it doesn't auto-run attachments behind your back without your even having clicked on the email. All network services are off by default, and the firewall (ipfw) is on by default. The OS requires a password before anything can modify the folder hierarchy that the system is stored in. In sum, OS X has no exploits because Apple made damn sure that it was hard to exploit.
6) This may not surprise you, but there aren't a lot of Mac gamers. There are probably more now, but by and large Macs are used for productivity - specifically, the sort of creative productivity that's its own kind of fun. The lack of games isn't really an argument for a lot of us. I know that I personally am content with the three or so shareware games I keep around. Speaking of that, the Mac does have some really kick-ass shareware games.
edit: great post amorph!
It surprises many folks, on seeing my Apple-logo-branded laptop, that I don't do music. I don't do video. I don't even do graphics.
I code.
Specifically, I do research into the theoretical foundations of software engineering, and produce practical toolsets to analyze large codebases in meaningful ways.
Geek stuff.
And you know what? While I could, in theory, do it on a PC, having a solid Unix core means I can use any number of excellent packages out there for Python, dynamic library analysis, X11 and such without any mucking about or modifications. (It also means that my laptop gets about four months between reboots.
MacOS X is just the best tool for the job I do, bar none. Spent many years in the Wintel world (and the HP/UX world, the SGI world, and even some time over in Sun-nyvale), and quite simply nothing else comes close, for my needs.
But then, I'm lousy at FPSs.