windows doenst suck, we dont bash your OS, ill admit Mac OSX is stable as a mofo, but windows xp is pretty stable too (ever tried ME or 2000?) PC's are faster, cheaper, and have more games/apps. Mac's are great for video editing and pre pubescent fanboys that bash PC's for no reason despite them not being able to overclock, game (much), save money, etc, so shutup to your MAC GOD, because you guys are stupid with the exception of few.
PC's are faster: possibly, although if you want to talk to the folks doing the Folding competition, you'd probably change your tune. (the G5's spank the fastest PC's out there)
cheaper: (initially, yes)
and have more games/apps: true.
Mac's are great for video editing: yes
and pre pubescent fanboys that bash PC's: true (although not exclusively)
for no reason: actually for many good reasons.
despite them not being able to overclock: false, there are many articles on overclocking both desktops and laptops. it's not as easy as a setting in the BIOS, but if you're really a gearhead, some light soldering should be child's play.
game (much): true
save money: actually Gartner and many other independent firms have shown that over their lifespan Macs are significantly cheaper than their PC counterparts.
alchimedes, you are one of the few mac users i know that actually agree with that stuff and doesnt bash on pc's. its a matter of preferance, i prefer pc, you prefer mac, and i thank you for respecting me on that, i personally wish windows would be mac-stable, windows-compatible, but it aint gonna happen with microshaft these days. PS: this is NessedNess on the forums.extremeoverclocking.com
to go along with the "cheaper" point. Initially they are dirt cheap. But see, the dirt is not the fancy kind of enriched store bought dirt, it is more the stuff that you get when you break down streets. So, it is not good stuff. Also, try getting the same quality of FREE apps that are made for the Mac (coincidentally by Apple) for your 'Digital Lifestyle' or "iLife."
ahhh, just remembered. thats gotta be one of the ONLY things i truly dislike about macs/apple corp, the i-everything. i-tunes, i-pod, i-book, i-life: it gets old quick.
many many many windows users bash OS X, just as many many OS X users bash windows.
YOU may not bash my OS, but that doesn't mean MILLIONS of other windows users don't as well.
If no windows user bashed apple and the mac os, if mac users didn't have to put up with being called retarded for choosing an operating system that is 'for kids' or 'for idiots' or 'that can't do anything', do you think that if we didn't have to put up with that stuff from people all the time that we would be as defensive or sensitive to these things?
think about that, mac users are constantly being told that they are WRONG and BAD/DUMB for using macs, it may seem absurd, but that's the type of thing we deal with quite a bit.
I hate to say this but OSX crashes more then my Windows XP machine, and they both crash way more then my Linux machine. Your results may very.
It's really down to personal preference on what interface and hardware. Speed wise, the PC is faster overall right now, but that could change as software is written to take advantage of the G5. Personally, I have always liked the PPC CPUs more then the AMD/INTEL X86 CPUs and wish they were available for integration into the Windows market.
PCs are cheaper, by a good margin, but Apple machines have a uniqueness that no PC vendor has yet to match, or even come close. Macs are as much a work of art as they are a functional PC and that is expressed in every aspect from the GUI to the wiring inside the case.
Software is similiar, but not the same. There are still programs which are Wintel exclusive and there are some good ones that are Mac exclusive. Although, how many word processors do you really need? The PC still has a firm hold on the game market and I doubt that will change soon. Macs get most of the best titles, but honestly you are likely to see more games being ported to Linux in the future then Mac.
Honestly I don't see any reason to bash any system because in the end, people are going to go where they are most comfortable. Telling your PC buddy, who just spent $2500 on a brand new Dell why his system sucks and why he is wrong for disliking Macs isn't going to win any more "converts" then a PC guy trashing his friends G5 simply because its different. To each his own.
Just FYI my family has owned a bunch of Macs. LC, 7200, Power Book (can't recall number, Mac Clone Powerwave, Mac Clone Power Center Pro, iBook, and G4. Hell, we even owned a Newton.
I've been looking at the thread on this at www.sharkyforums.com and www.extremeoverclocking.com. I've noticed that while many PC users there dismiss Macs out of hand (like many Mac users here dismiss PCs out of hand), there is also a surprising amount of praise for the G5 (and, by association, Apple?):
At Sharky:
Quote:
Eeep. The G5 is a work of art. He just turned it into "modern art".
Quote:
All I can say is he's ******* moron! Unless it was the crappy 1.6Ghz model But still, how stupid. I would kill for a dual G5 setup!
Quote:
Notice how UGLY it is after the install. IMO PC's can't compare to the way a Mac is put together.
Quote:
I'm in! No one rips open a Mac like this and get's away with it on my time! I say we force him to use DOS for the rest of his life! And no manuels or help in learning it! Or we could just tar and eather him, maybe make him run the gauntlet of Geeks where'ing only a loin cloth?
*evil grin spreads accross face. Enjoys plotting evil for this kid*
Quote:
I wish I coulda goten the G5 cpu. Man those things are cool. Just because you all hate Mac's, amd most of you without much reason, doesn't mean they're a Bbad company or have crappy products. It's just that for gamers and OC'ers it really isn't the right thing to get into. If nothing else they manufacturer some of the best laptops in the world. Not including price or hardware here, I mean design. How many PC laptops have top of the line specs and are 1" thick? That's right, none.
At Extreme:
Quote:
yeah... you can't use PCs available to the masses to build one of the world's fastest supercomputers... They did with Mac G5s though. Mad props to Steve Jobs.
Quote:
its a nice case, the good thing about apple (recently) is that they make very nice cases, very clean and alot of airflow. i think the "mod" is stupid, the g5 was better before he got his hands on it, and why would he want a dell in the first place?
Quote:
I'm going to cry... I hate macs... but... that mac is a goddamn work of art. Spoiled kids like that deserve to be hit by a train when they are crushing pennies on the tracks.
Quote:
I shoulda looked at this when I first saw the thread...
I think the case mod was a kick ass idea, but I wouldn't have just given away the G5 components. Those computers are kick ass and I would have figured out a use for the damn thing.
One thing I will say about the Mac V PC debate is that if a person completely dismisses one of the platforms, they are deluding themselves: both have their own strengths and weaknesses. Personal preference and needs dictate which of these strengths and weaknesses makes the most impact on a buying decision, or on the usefulness of a computer.
Mis-information and prejudice on both sides is stupefying.
I noticed that too, and that's one nice thing that's come out of all this. I frankly didn't expect much when I went over to the PC enthusiasts' forums to see the reactions. Sure there were a couple "MACS SUCK OMG!!!1" posts, because every village has to have at least one idiot, but by and large the reaction was "well, I'm not a Mac user, but what an awful thing to do to such a nice machine."
It wasn't all that long ago that I would only hear other Mac users, and non-computer types, refer to a Mac as a "nice machine." This is good.
If it matters, I've been using PCs and Windows at work since 3.1 was new. I'm familiar with 3.1, Workgroups, 95 (a through the bitter end), NT 3 and 4, Windows 2000 Pro and Windows XP Pro. I've even run it on really sweet hardware back in the day - anyone else ever get a gander at one of DEC's PCs, back when the Alpha was new and the Pentium was at 90MHz? Wow. Beautiful engineering.
But even though I've had a relatively good experience on Windows, and even though I've never had to troubleshoot my own workstations (which is not to say that I haven't been dragooned into fixing other peoples'), I've never thought "you know, I want to own this." I've always been happy to come back at the end of the day and sit down at my Mac, even though it was always older and slower than whatever I had at work. For one thing, although there are zillions of text editors available for Windows (and believe me, I've tried a lot of them) none of them are BBEdit. I really miss BBEdit at work.
The PC still has a firm hold on the game market and I doubt that will change soon. Macs get most of the best titles, but honestly you are likely to see more games being ported to Linux in the future then Mac.
That just isn't true*, the mac game market, while way smaller, has been growing at an increasingly rapid rate, more and more ports are being done of all the latest games, the porting houses are busier than ever, with as many as 8 titles in their pipelines at any given time, ports are being done better(with a couple notable exceptions)
Then you have companies like ID and Blizzard that love macs and produce great mac versions of their games alongside with the windows versions.
and, as mentioned earlier, the shareware mac gaming market pwns the windows shareware game market, there might be MORE games on the windows side, but the mac shareware gaming community, is so full of life, with many great FUN games coming out.
The thing is, times are changing, Macs are rapidly catching up with all the short comings that they had in the past, and in a couple years it is very likely that even the game or(gasp! price) arguments will be nullified.
*obviously, the mac game market will never surpass the PC game market in volume, but as long as the amount of new releases for mac starts to balance out, then it's as good as the same if you ask me.
That just isn't true*, the mac game market, while way smaller, has been growing at an increasingly rapid rate, more and more ports are being done of all the latest games, the porting houses are busier than ever, with as many as 8 titles in their pipelines at any given time, ports are being done better(with a couple notable exceptions)
Then you have companies like ID and Blizzard that love macs and produce great mac versions of their games alongside with the windows versions.
and, as mentioned earlier, the shareware mac gaming market pwns the windows shareware game market, there might be MORE games on the windows side, but the mac shareware gaming community, is so full of life, with many great FUN games coming out.
The thing is, times are changing, Macs are rapidly catching up with all the short comings that they had in the past, and in a couple years it is very likely that even the game or(gasp! price) arguments will be nullified.
*obviously, the mac game market will never surpass the PC game market in volume, but as long as the amount of new releases for mac starts to balance out, then it's as good as the same if you ask me.
I don't want to be a troll but I respectfully disagree.
I just checked out Macledge and read their future releases. There are some AAA titles there that I will have already played through 3 to 6 months prior to any Mac Gamer even getting a copy. That may be fine for some but I like to play current games, and not have to beg and plead with my friends to join me in a game of Wolfenstein when BF1942 is the current in thing. And then 4 months later have to watch as they play BF Vietnam while I am stuck with just BF 1942.
Times are changing, and it's certainly not like the days when Mac users were begging for ports of Descent and Duke Nukem, but they haven't caught up yet.
I also have to bring up the question of performance. Despite the lead the Mac has in some areas over the PC, gaming is not one of them. This may change as developers become more familiar with the PPC G5, 64bit, and dual CPU programming, but for the mean time, the performance advantage in games goes to the PC. And some games, like Half-Life 2, are going to need EVERY ounce of performance a system can muster. Right now, between AMD, Intel, and Apple, Apple is the slowest.
All in all, when you look at it. The Mac is still 6 months behind the PC in terms of games.
As far as shareware is concerned, you will find that most of the PC shareware goes into modifying existing titles into some incredible games. It's a different focus then most Mac shareware.
Yeah, I understand where you are coming from JEDI, but if you look at the massive amount of progress that has been made in the last year, there is a lot of momentum building up. The rate of change is accelerating, and while currently macs may be 6 months behind PCs for many games, that is likely to change in the coming year.
And, the other thing is, the whole windows platform is just a big quality control team for the mac games
Not only do all the best games(with a couple exceptions) make it to the mac, but when they are FIRST released for mac OS, they are the usually the latest patch, with all the kinks worked out from a v1.0 release.
ya know?
I mean, I'm not a big gamer(as I mentioned earlier in the thread) but Mac gaming IS improving and it is rapidly accelerating.
just 'cause he's a PC user here doesn't mean you have to get pissy with him. besides, one point his post should have made obvious is that if you want more Mac users, they're going to have to be former PC users. (myself included)
we just need to be selective. forget G5 mod boy, but some of these others guys just might give OSX a real shot if we aren't total pricks to them.
Hmmmm.... I didn't realize I was being pissy to him. And I definately don't think I was being a PRICK to him. I was mearly stating a fact that he (being the critical PC user against mac) was the one posting on a mac forum and that we were ALL (PC users and Mac users) were in agreement that the guy'd ****ed up the G5. But now that it's a hoax......... I guess it doesn't really matter.
actually the more i think about it, the more i think murbot is right. this retraction is the hoax, kid just realized he looked like a completely idiot and is trying to do damage control.
Comments
cheaper: (initially, yes)
and have more games/apps: true.
Mac's are great for video editing: yes
and pre pubescent fanboys that bash PC's: true (although not exclusively)
for no reason: actually for many good reasons.
despite them not being able to overclock: false, there are many articles on overclocking both desktops and laptops. it's not as easy as a setting in the BIOS, but if you're really a gearhead, some light soldering should be child's play.
game (much): true
save money: actually Gartner and many other independent firms have shown that over their lifespan Macs are significantly cheaper than their PC counterparts.
Originally posted by Amdguy
windows doenst suck, we dont bash your OS
many many many windows users bash OS X, just as many many OS X users bash windows.
YOU may not bash my OS, but that doesn't mean MILLIONS of other windows users don't as well.
If no windows user bashed apple and the mac os, if mac users didn't have to put up with being called retarded for choosing an operating system that is 'for kids' or 'for idiots' or 'that can't do anything', do you think that if we didn't have to put up with that stuff from people all the time that we would be as defensive or sensitive to these things?
think about that, mac users are constantly being told that they are WRONG and BAD/DUMB for using macs, it may seem absurd, but that's the type of thing we deal with quite a bit.
It's really down to personal preference on what interface and hardware. Speed wise, the PC is faster overall right now, but that could change as software is written to take advantage of the G5. Personally, I have always liked the PPC CPUs more then the AMD/INTEL X86 CPUs and wish they were available for integration into the Windows market.
PCs are cheaper, by a good margin, but Apple machines have a uniqueness that no PC vendor has yet to match, or even come close. Macs are as much a work of art as they are a functional PC and that is expressed in every aspect from the GUI to the wiring inside the case.
Software is similiar, but not the same. There are still programs which are Wintel exclusive and there are some good ones that are Mac exclusive. Although, how many word processors do you really need?
Honestly I don't see any reason to bash any system because in the end, people are going to go where they are most comfortable. Telling your PC buddy, who just spent $2500 on a brand new Dell why his system sucks and why he is wrong for disliking Macs isn't going to win any more "converts" then a PC guy trashing his friends G5 simply because its different. To each his own.
Just FYI my family has owned a bunch of Macs. LC, 7200, Power Book (can't recall number, Mac Clone Powerwave, Mac Clone Power Center Pro, iBook, and G4. Hell, we even owned a Newton.
At Sharky:
Eeep. The G5 is a work of art. He just turned it into "modern art".
All I can say is he's ******* moron! Unless it was the crappy 1.6Ghz model
Notice how UGLY it is after the install. IMO PC's can't compare to the way a Mac is put together.
I'm in! No one rips open a Mac like this and get's away with it on my time! I say we force him to use DOS for the rest of his life! And no manuels or help in learning it! Or we could just tar and eather him, maybe make him run the gauntlet of Geeks where'ing only a loin cloth?
*evil grin spreads accross face. Enjoys plotting evil for this kid*
I wish I coulda goten the G5 cpu. Man those things are cool. Just because you all hate Mac's, amd most of you without much reason, doesn't mean they're a Bbad company or have crappy products. It's just that for gamers and OC'ers it really isn't the right thing to get into. If nothing else they manufacturer some of the best laptops in the world. Not including price or hardware here, I mean design. How many PC laptops have top of the line specs and are 1" thick? That's right, none.
At Extreme:
yeah... you can't use PCs available to the masses to build one of the world's fastest supercomputers... They did with Mac G5s though. Mad props to Steve Jobs.
its a nice case, the good thing about apple (recently) is that they make very nice cases, very clean and alot of airflow. i think the "mod" is stupid, the g5 was better before he got his hands on it, and why would he want a dell in the first place?
I'm going to cry... I hate macs... but... that mac is a goddamn work of art. Spoiled kids like that deserve to be hit by a train when they are crushing pennies on the tracks.
I shoulda looked at this when I first saw the thread...
I think the case mod was a kick ass idea, but I wouldn't have just given away the G5 components. Those computers are kick ass and I would have figured out a use for the damn thing.
One thing I will say about the Mac V PC debate is that if a person completely dismisses one of the platforms, they are deluding themselves: both have their own strengths and weaknesses. Personal preference and needs dictate which of these strengths and weaknesses makes the most impact on a buying decision, or on the usefulness of a computer.
Mis-information and prejudice on both sides is stupefying.
It wasn't all that long ago that I would only hear other Mac users, and non-computer types, refer to a Mac as a "nice machine." This is good.
If it matters, I've been using PCs and Windows at work since 3.1 was new. I'm familiar with 3.1, Workgroups, 95 (a through the bitter end), NT 3 and 4, Windows 2000 Pro and Windows XP Pro. I've even run it on really sweet hardware back in the day - anyone else ever get a gander at one of DEC's PCs, back when the Alpha was new and the Pentium was at 90MHz? Wow. Beautiful engineering.
But even though I've had a relatively good experience on Windows, and even though I've never had to troubleshoot my own workstations (which is not to say that I haven't been dragooned into fixing other peoples'), I've never thought "you know, I want to own this." I've always been happy to come back at the end of the day and sit down at my Mac, even though it was always older and slower than whatever I had at work. For one thing, although there are zillions of text editors available for Windows (and believe me, I've tried a lot of them) none of them are BBEdit. I really miss BBEdit at work.
Originally posted by JEDI
The PC still has a firm hold on the game market and I doubt that will change soon. Macs get most of the best titles, but honestly you are likely to see more games being ported to Linux in the future then Mac.
That just isn't true*, the mac game market, while way smaller, has been growing at an increasingly rapid rate, more and more ports are being done of all the latest games, the porting houses are busier than ever, with as many as 8 titles in their pipelines at any given time, ports are being done better(with a couple notable exceptions)
Then you have companies like ID and Blizzard that love macs and produce great mac versions of their games alongside with the windows versions.
and, as mentioned earlier, the shareware mac gaming market pwns the windows shareware game market, there might be MORE games on the windows side, but the mac shareware gaming community, is so full of life, with many great FUN games coming out.
The thing is, times are changing, Macs are rapidly catching up with all the short comings that they had in the past, and in a couple years it is very likely that even the game or(gasp! price) arguments will be nullified.
*obviously, the mac game market will never surpass the PC game market in volume, but as long as the amount of new releases for mac starts to balance out, then it's as good as the same if you ask me.
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
That just isn't true*, the mac game market, while way smaller, has been growing at an increasingly rapid rate, more and more ports are being done of all the latest games, the porting houses are busier than ever, with as many as 8 titles in their pipelines at any given time, ports are being done better(with a couple notable exceptions)
Then you have companies like ID and Blizzard that love macs and produce great mac versions of their games alongside with the windows versions.
and, as mentioned earlier, the shareware mac gaming market pwns the windows shareware game market, there might be MORE games on the windows side, but the mac shareware gaming community, is so full of life, with many great FUN games coming out.
The thing is, times are changing, Macs are rapidly catching up with all the short comings that they had in the past, and in a couple years it is very likely that even the game or(gasp! price) arguments will be nullified.
*obviously, the mac game market will never surpass the PC game market in volume, but as long as the amount of new releases for mac starts to balance out, then it's as good as the same if you ask me.
I don't want to be a troll but I respectfully disagree.
I just checked out Macledge and read their future releases. There are some AAA titles there that I will have already played through 3 to 6 months prior to any Mac Gamer even getting a copy. That may be fine for some but I like to play current games, and not have to beg and plead with my friends to join me in a game of Wolfenstein when BF1942 is the current in thing. And then 4 months later have to watch as they play BF Vietnam while I am stuck with just BF 1942.
Times are changing, and it's certainly not like the days when Mac users were begging for ports of Descent and Duke Nukem, but they haven't caught up yet.
I also have to bring up the question of performance. Despite the lead the Mac has in some areas over the PC, gaming is not one of them. This may change as developers become more familiar with the PPC G5, 64bit, and dual CPU programming, but for the mean time, the performance advantage in games goes to the PC. And some games, like Half-Life 2, are going to need EVERY ounce of performance a system can muster. Right now, between AMD, Intel, and Apple, Apple is the slowest.
All in all, when you look at it. The Mac is still 6 months behind the PC in terms of games.
As far as shareware is concerned, you will find that most of the PC shareware goes into modifying existing titles into some incredible games. It's a different focus then most Mac shareware.
And, the other thing is, the whole windows platform is just a big quality control team for the mac games
Not only do all the best games(with a couple exceptions) make it to the mac, but when they are FIRST released for mac OS, they are the usually the latest patch, with all the kinks worked out from a v1.0 release.
ya know?
I mean, I'm not a big gamer(as I mentioned earlier in the thread) but Mac gaming IS improving and it is rapidly accelerating.
Originally posted by alcimedes
just 'cause he's a PC user here doesn't mean you have to get pissy with him. besides, one point his post should have made obvious is that if you want more Mac users, they're going to have to be former PC users. (myself included)
we just need to be selective. forget G5 mod boy, but some of these others guys just might give OSX a real shot if we aren't total pricks to them.
Hmmmm.... I didn't realize I was being pissy to him. And I definately don't think I was being a PRICK to him. I was mearly stating a fact that he (being the critical PC user against mac) was the one posting on a mac forum and that we were ALL (PC users and Mac users) were in agreement that the guy'd ****ed up the G5. But now that it's a hoax......... I guess it doesn't really matter.
Originally posted by Akumulator
That link to send him an email is very tempting.
Yeah it is. Very. Temping. Must. Hold. Myself. Back.