Just as a side note for anyone that's interested, the 22" Cinema Display appears to be $1499 at the online Mac resellers (only checked MacMall, but I assume the others have the same pricing).
<strong>Just as a side note for anyone that's interested, the 22" Cinema Display appears to be $1499 at the online Mac resellers (only checked MacMall, but I assume the others have the same pricing).</strong><hr></blockquote>
For anyone doing professional work that would want a 22" Cinema Display, I would still think they would want to buy the new 20" one because it has more pixels.
<strong>I think maybe it is because the dual 867s sold really well (in comparison with the traditional bottom of the range PowerMac) that they have gone back to ensuring the better deal is not the cheapest anymore.</strong><hr></blockquote>You may be exactly right. But as others have said, it's unfortunate because going to single probably will put a lower ceiling on the iMac's processor.
Also, don't know if anyone noted this yet... end of C|Net Article on new PM:
[quote]
The entry-level and midrange models are available immediately, but consumers will have to wait about a month for the high-end model, said Tom Boger, Apple's director of Power Mac marketing. The new 20-inch Cinema Display is available starting Tuesday.
For the first time, Apple has symbolically and tangibly split its Power Mac line into two sets - those that can exclusively boot Mac OS X and those that can also boot Mac OS 9.
To view the OS 9 models, go to the Apple Store, click on the Power Mac G4 section, and then look to the right for the "Mac OS 9 Systems."
The OS 9 Power Macs both contain dual 1.25 GHz PowerPC G4 processors, and are available in "Fastest" and "Ultimate" configurations. The "Fastest" model includes 512MB DDR333 SDRAM and the ATI Radeon 9000 Pro, while the "Ultimate" model contains 2GB DDR333 SDRAM and the NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium.
"Mac OS 9 boot supported" is now one of the listed features.
I'm sure in the future Apple will have a special "tax" on the OS 9 bootable machines to 1) suck money out of people's pockets and 2) force people to buy and OS X machine to get the best value.
[quote]I'm sure in the future Apple will have a special "tax" on the OS 9 bootable machines to 1) suck money out of people's pockets and 2) force people to buy and OS X machine to get the best value. <hr></blockquote>
A: the entry level Powermac is not going to sell, you can upgrade even the oldest G4 powermacs to 1Ghz for half the price today, even to dual 1Ghz on some.
It's just a high end iMac for office stuff, nothing else.
The two higher models offer about twice the price performance of the older models, and owning an "old" Dual 1.25, I'm pissed off. I guess that's part of being a computer user. (I can get a new top of the line Powermac with Airport Extreme, bluetooth and Radeon 9700 pro, plus a twice as fast DVD-R and Firewire for 200 Swiss franks less on the Apple store, than I paid for my machine at a reseller who's usually 10% below Apple's online prices...Go figure.)
Another kind of weak point with this update.....it is very akin to the recent powerbook update...only with the powerbooks they only updated with 12 inch and 17 inch they didn't change the 15 inches and with this powermac update they actually went through the trouble to get every model up to snuff(firewire 800, airport extreme, 266 333 mhz ddr sdram...etc)
If sdram= Single data-rate ram(random access memory) and DDR ram= double data-rate ram
<strong>A: the entry level Powermac is not going to sell, you can upgrade even the oldest G4 powermacs to 1Ghz for half the price today, even to dual 1Ghz on some.
It's just a high end iMac for office stuff, nothing else.
The two higher models offer about twice the price performance of the older models, and owning an "old" Dual 1.25, I'm pissed off. I guess that's part of being a computer user. (I can get a new top of the line Powermac with Airport Extreme, bluetooth and Radeon 9700 pro, plus a twice as fast DVD-R and Firewire for 200 Swiss franks less on the Apple store, than I paid for my machine at a reseller who's usually 10% below Apple's online prices...Go figure.)
G-News</strong><hr></blockquote>
I just don't understnad, why are you pissed?
Technology improves, and as a result things get better and cheaper. That is the way life goes. You were obiously willing to part with the money at the time. Why are you bitching about it now?
Also, you do have twice the L3 cache, so that's something you've got over the current 1.25 model.
I mean, I got a ibook 700 three weeks before the new ones came out. And then the 12" Pb (which I would love to have) came out two months after that! I would have loved to have waited, but I needed a computer right then. Was I dissapointed, sure. Was I pissed off at apple? Of course not! Do you know why? Because that would be SILLY.
<strong>A: the entry level Powermac is not going to sell, you can upgrade even the oldest G4 powermacs to 1Ghz for half the price today, even to dual 1Ghz on some.
It's just a high end iMac for office stuff, nothing else.
The two higher models offer about twice the price performance of the older models, and owning an "old" Dual 1.25, I'm pissed off. I guess that's part of being a computer user. (I can get a new top of the line Powermac with Airport Extreme, bluetooth and Radeon 9700 pro, plus a twice as fast DVD-R and Firewire for 200 Swiss franks less on the Apple store, than I paid for my machine at a reseller who's usually 10% below Apple's online prices...Go figure.)
G-News</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think the Entry-level will sell just fine, but the mid level will probably be the hotest item.
The entry level makes for a good first powermac, if you've never owned one before.
thats unfortunate about your purchase, but there will probably be 3rd part airport extreme pci cards or firewire 800 cards in the future, you'll probably be able to upgrade somewhat.
<strong>A: the entry level Powermac is not going to sell, you can upgrade even the oldest G4 powermacs to 1Ghz for half the price today, even to dual 1Ghz on some.
It's just a high end iMac for office stuff, nothing else.
The two higher models offer about twice the price performance of the older models, and owning an "old" Dual 1.25, I'm pissed off. I guess that's part of being a computer user. (I can get a new top of the line Powermac with Airport Extreme, bluetooth and Radeon 9700 pro, plus a twice as fast DVD-R and Firewire for 200 Swiss franks less on the Apple store, than I paid for my machine at a reseller who's usually 10% below Apple's online prices...Go figure.)
G-News</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree, the drop back to singles for the low end PowerMac is a bad idea, at least at the price they are charging. They should have introed a single at $999-$1299 to get a low end tower on the market, and help sell more displays. The low end dual should be $1499-$1599, which woul make it a better deal than the previous low end which would have addressed the price performance gap that has been growing for Mac's.
The 17" monitor should be $100 less than it is now, or Apple will need to reduce its price this summer to keep it in the "high-end" of the 17" LCD displays. The 20" looks to be a good deal for now, and the 23" is a great price drop. Apple needs to better at keeping up with the market prices on monitors. Someone in another thread suggested that Apple monitors were a "value added" product, but it is anything but, in reality it is a high end monitor that you have to pay extra for the styling. Apple would sell more of them if they kept them competively priced throughout the year instead of getting them close to competative once a year. They should also target a starting price of $499 for their bottom end monitor.
The noise level was one of the biggest complaints many customers had with the previous generation Power Macs. According to Apple, this problem has been fixed and customers will be happy with the results of the work put into correcting this issue.
"We worked really hard and went over the systems to find every possible way to make the system quieter," said Tom Boger, Director, Power Mac Product Marketing. "I'm happy to tell you that we've done that -- when the systems get out in the marketplace, I'm sure our customers are going to be delighted at how quiet these systems are."
"They are significantly quieter -- these will answer the critics," added Joswiak. <hr></blockquote>
WOW...verry impressive, they have doubled the number of processors, increased the bus speed, and close to a 300% speed improvement to the processor and all they are getting is a 204% improvement in FCP scores. I wouldnt be bragging about those numbers.... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>I'm sure in the future Apple will have a special "tax" on the OS 9 bootable machines to 1) suck money out of people's pockets and 2) force people to buy and OS X machine to get the best value.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, in the future they won't make Mac OS 9 bootable machines.
In case you don't know Apple will stop making the two remaining Mac OS 9 bootable Power Macs in five months.
I am personally happy that there is an entry level PowerMac. I think I'm going to order one and bump it up to the Radeon card. (I have a personal hatred for nVidia) To me, a 1Ghz G4 with a 1MB level-3 cache with a 133Mhz bus isn't a bad thing. And not everyone needs or wants a dualie.
I think the single processor on the low end is solely there to prepare us for the "PowerMac Extreme" line up with the 970. I suspect we'll see single processor machines for at least the low and mid range. Maybe even the top machine.
<strong>I am personally happy that there is an entry level PowerMac. I think I'm going to order one and bump it up to the Radeon card. (I have a personal hatred for nVidia) To me, a 1Ghz G4 with a 1MB level-3 cache with a 133Mhz bus isn't a bad thing. And not everyone needs or wants a dualie.
Agent69 </strong><hr></blockquote>
You're right, it's not a bad thing, but it's a bad thing for $1499.
Comments
<strong>Just as a side note for anyone that's interested, the 22" Cinema Display appears to be $1499 at the online Mac resellers (only checked MacMall, but I assume the others have the same pricing).</strong><hr></blockquote>
For anyone doing professional work that would want a 22" Cinema Display, I would still think they would want to buy the new 20" one because it has more pixels.
<strong>I think maybe it is because the dual 867s sold really well (in comparison with the traditional bottom of the range PowerMac) that they have gone back to ensuring the better deal is not the cheapest anymore.</strong><hr></blockquote>You may be exactly right. But as others have said, it's unfortunate because going to single probably will put a lower ceiling on the iMac's processor.
[quote]
The entry-level and midrange models are available immediately, but consumers will have to wait about a month for the high-end model, said Tom Boger, Apple's director of Power Mac marketing. The new 20-inch Cinema Display is available starting Tuesday.
<hr></blockquote>
Apple splits OS 9 Power Macs onto separate page
For the first time, Apple has symbolically and tangibly split its Power Mac line into two sets - those that can exclusively boot Mac OS X and those that can also boot Mac OS 9.
To view the OS 9 models, go to the Apple Store, click on the Power Mac G4 section, and then look to the right for the "Mac OS 9 Systems."
The OS 9 Power Macs both contain dual 1.25 GHz PowerPC G4 processors, and are available in "Fastest" and "Ultimate" configurations. The "Fastest" model includes 512MB DDR333 SDRAM and the ATI Radeon 9000 Pro, while the "Ultimate" model contains 2GB DDR333 SDRAM and the NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium.
"Mac OS 9 boot supported" is now one of the listed features.
[ 01-28-2003: Message edited by: MacsRGood4U ]</p>
Geez. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" />
It's just a high end iMac for office stuff, nothing else.
The two higher models offer about twice the price performance of the older models, and owning an "old" Dual 1.25, I'm pissed off. I guess that's part of being a computer user. (I can get a new top of the line Powermac with Airport Extreme, bluetooth and Radeon 9700 pro, plus a twice as fast DVD-R and Firewire for 200 Swiss franks less on the Apple store, than I paid for my machine at a reseller who's usually 10% below Apple's online prices...Go figure.)
G-News
If sdram= Single data-rate ram(random access memory) and DDR ram= double data-rate ram
then what the hell is DDR SDRAM?
double data-rate single data-rate ram?
thats weird
<strong>A: the entry level Powermac is not going to sell, you can upgrade even the oldest G4 powermacs to 1Ghz for half the price today, even to dual 1Ghz on some.
It's just a high end iMac for office stuff, nothing else.
The two higher models offer about twice the price performance of the older models, and owning an "old" Dual 1.25, I'm pissed off. I guess that's part of being a computer user. (I can get a new top of the line Powermac with Airport Extreme, bluetooth and Radeon 9700 pro, plus a twice as fast DVD-R and Firewire for 200 Swiss franks less on the Apple store, than I paid for my machine at a reseller who's usually 10% below Apple's online prices...Go figure.)
G-News</strong><hr></blockquote>
I just don't understnad, why are you pissed?
Technology improves, and as a result things get better and cheaper. That is the way life goes. You were obiously willing to part with the money at the time. Why are you bitching about it now?
Also, you do have twice the L3 cache, so that's something you've got over the current 1.25 model.
I mean, I got a ibook 700 three weeks before the new ones came out. And then the 12" Pb (which I would love to have) came out two months after that! I would have loved to have waited, but I needed a computer right then. Was I dissapointed, sure. Was I pissed off at apple? Of course not! Do you know why? Because that would be SILLY.
[ 01-28-2003: Message edited by: Flounder ]</p>
<strong>A: the entry level Powermac is not going to sell, you can upgrade even the oldest G4 powermacs to 1Ghz for half the price today, even to dual 1Ghz on some.
It's just a high end iMac for office stuff, nothing else.
The two higher models offer about twice the price performance of the older models, and owning an "old" Dual 1.25, I'm pissed off. I guess that's part of being a computer user. (I can get a new top of the line Powermac with Airport Extreme, bluetooth and Radeon 9700 pro, plus a twice as fast DVD-R and Firewire for 200 Swiss franks less on the Apple store, than I paid for my machine at a reseller who's usually 10% below Apple's online prices...Go figure.)
G-News</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think the Entry-level will sell just fine, but the mid level will probably be the hotest item.
The entry level makes for a good first powermac, if you've never owned one before.
thats unfortunate about your purchase, but there will probably be 3rd part airport extreme pci cards or firewire 800 cards in the future, you'll probably be able to upgrade somewhat.
<strong>
And how are you going to hook it up to the 12" PB? It's only got VGa, not DVI. The VGA-ADC adapters are expensive.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And the 12" powerbook has a max resolution of 1600X1200 on the external monitor. The Cinema HD is 1920 X 1200.
<strong>A: the entry level Powermac is not going to sell, you can upgrade even the oldest G4 powermacs to 1Ghz for half the price today, even to dual 1Ghz on some.
It's just a high end iMac for office stuff, nothing else.
The two higher models offer about twice the price performance of the older models, and owning an "old" Dual 1.25, I'm pissed off. I guess that's part of being a computer user. (I can get a new top of the line Powermac with Airport Extreme, bluetooth and Radeon 9700 pro, plus a twice as fast DVD-R and Firewire for 200 Swiss franks less on the Apple store, than I paid for my machine at a reseller who's usually 10% below Apple's online prices...Go figure.)
G-News</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree, the drop back to singles for the low end PowerMac is a bad idea, at least at the price they are charging. They should have introed a single at $999-$1299 to get a low end tower on the market, and help sell more displays. The low end dual should be $1499-$1599, which woul make it a better deal than the previous low end which would have addressed the price performance gap that has been growing for Mac's.
The 17" monitor should be $100 less than it is now, or Apple will need to reduce its price this summer to keep it in the "high-end" of the 17" LCD displays. The 20" looks to be a good deal for now, and the 23" is a great price drop. Apple needs to better at keeping up with the market prices on monitors. Someone in another thread suggested that Apple monitors were a "value added" product, but it is anything but, in reality it is a high end monitor that you have to pay extra for the styling. Apple would sell more of them if they kept them competively priced throughout the year instead of getting them close to competative once a year. They should also target a starting price of $499 for their bottom end monitor.
[quote]
The noise level was one of the biggest complaints many customers had with the previous generation Power Macs. According to Apple, this problem has been fixed and customers will be happy with the results of the work put into correcting this issue.
"We worked really hard and went over the systems to find every possible way to make the system quieter," said Tom Boger, Director, Power Mac Product Marketing. "I'm happy to tell you that we've done that -- when the systems get out in the marketplace, I'm sure our customers are going to be delighted at how quiet these systems are."
"They are significantly quieter -- these will answer the critics," added Joswiak. <hr></blockquote>
<strong>
Oh boy</strong><hr></blockquote>
WOW...verry impressive, they have doubled the number of processors, increased the bus speed, and close to a 300% speed improvement to the processor and all they are getting is a 204% improvement in FCP scores. I wouldnt be bragging about those numbers.... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>I'm sure in the future Apple will have a special "tax" on the OS 9 bootable machines to 1) suck money out of people's pockets and 2) force people to buy and OS X machine to get the best value.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, in the future they won't make Mac OS 9 bootable machines.
In case you don't know Apple will stop making the two remaining Mac OS 9 bootable Power Macs in five months.
Agent69
I hope not, but that's my gut feel.
<strong>I am personally happy that there is an entry level PowerMac. I think I'm going to order one and bump it up to the Radeon card. (I have a personal hatred for nVidia) To me, a 1Ghz G4 with a 1MB level-3 cache with a 133Mhz bus isn't a bad thing. And not everyone needs or wants a dualie.
Agent69
You're right, it's not a bad thing, but it's a bad thing for $1499.