First off, I've lurked here since, geesh, probably '98ish and finally have got to post as I'm still an avid Apple fan. I love Apple, just haven't owned a machine of theirs since my 7500/100. :-D So, please, don't flame what I am going to say, I might use AMD based machines now, but if what is true about the coming Power4 derived chip I'll be jumping back to Apple hopefuly sooner than later. Their cost-performance ratio just isn't what it used to be.
I am quite disappointed with this release for a few reasons on this update. First off, where is the DDR FSB? You would think by now they would have designed a new northbridge chip to support this feature, especially since from what I have read the 745x processors would benefit quite nicely from such an addition. Secondly, the dual processor machines still use a shared bus to communicate with the motherboard. Agh! It seems not as much R&D went into this update as I was hoping, which in a way makes me wonder if a limited release 970 based system is closer than we might think.
I'm just glad Steve didn't announce these @ MacWorld. You can't get a 1.46 until 4-6 weeks from now. If he had announced it on January 6th, that would have been 7-9 weeks! I'm liking this whole new strategy of not releasing everything at MacWorld.
On the positive side, great price strategy Apple! Move enough Power Macs due to reduced pricing can boost total revenue! I can't imagine these systems are all that expensive to produce. A bluetooth module isn't even incorporated into the system itself, you have to buy one! Enough bashing, I might be contradicting myself at this point to say I'm happy to see this update, because a small update is always better than no update.
Long live Apple! Can't wait to be running X-64 on my baby Power4.
The 20.1? display takes the place of Apple?s original 22? Cinema Display, with a whopping 1680x1050 resolution, slightly higher than Apple?s now discontinued 22? display. At $1299 this display crushes the nearest competition, Formac?s 20? flat panel, which sells for $1699.00. (We?ll see if Formac reacts with a lower price later today).....
I doubt this display will be easy to come by, since this kind of price has been unheard of before today. Anyone who has been drooling over the 22? Cinema Display which up until an hour ago sold for $2499, are now faced with a display offering the same real estate at half the price. Let?s hope Apple can keep up with the demand for this display.
Even more shocking is Apple?s decision to drop the cost of it?s flagship 23? HD Cinema Display by $1500 to a jaw-dropping $1999.00. There is no other display on the market that offers this size, resolution, and sharpness at anywhere near $1999. Most people expected Apple to drop the price by $500, not $1500.
This kind of aggressive pricing means Apple has taken a serious turn at pushing hardware out the door at prices no one can touch....
The 20 and 23" displays are competatively priced, the 17", at $699, is not. A quick search on the web shows prices for 17" displays starting out at $359. Now I realize that Apples are of better quality than the lowest priced LCD's, however, NEC, Samsung and Sony all have 17" (1280x1024) displays with both VGA and DVI connectors, built in speakers for under $599 and though you may loose the USB ports it does not warrent the addition of over $100 to the price. Apple should be able to compete with the high end offerings from Sony, NEC, and Samsung since Apples displays lack the internal speakers and additional circutry needed to support both VGA and DVI displays. This does not help Apple sell either PowerMacs or thier displays.
Yeah, the 20 and 23 are very neatly priced, the 17" is still way too expensive. These things ought to be DVI-ADC built into the base or at least ship with the DVI-ADC adaptor in the box (free with display). Ain't too many people gonna overpay for PM's, despite some movement in the right direction with this new update, but I can think of quite a few PC users who would buy the 20 and 23.
I seam to remeber reports predicting a 40% price drop for LCD displays in the next 12-24 months, and that was a few months ago. The fiasco last year that brought up the price of the iMac was due to a large increase in demand for 15" LCD displays, and as I understand it did not increase the price of the 17" LCD's. If that prediction holds true I wouldnt be suprised if we see the 20" LCD's below $1000 this time next year.
Finally the PowerMac reaces an acceptable speed, 1.42 GHz isn't THAT bad. Hopefully Apple will reach at least 1.8 GHz this summer, with a new processor that is (think 970).
The pricedrops on the displays is great, finally you don't have to sell your mother and everything you own to get a nice Apple-branded display.
I really can't find anything to complain about except the usual.
Even the last supposeed "hike" in LCD prices NEVER materialized. During the time of Apple's infamous price bump, prices continued to fall. MOst manufacturers had enough back-up stock that the consumer never noticed anything pricewise. Prices will fall drastically over the next 12 months, within 6, the prices of the 20 and 23 won't seem as great, unless Apple stays on top of dropping prices to reflect the falling component costs we can expect throughout all of 2003. RIGHT NOW, they're a good deal, let's see if Apple is serious about competing as the year goes by.
Apple was foolish to lower the prices. Mac users are accustomed to paying top dollar. Hell jack each machine up with goodies until you hit the prescribed pricepoint.
Apple shouldn't be "giving a pound of flesh" like the typical Peecee company. People LOVE excess. We drive SUV's and spend too much money on shiza like comic books, memorabilia etc. Americans are the richest bastards on earth who act like they're broke. Charge'em out the nose.
You have all this inside information. Please elaborate where you get your info from. Do you work in the components industry. Do you have inside knowledge of contracts that Apple has on component parts? Do you know the capacity of the LCD industry and what they can produce over the next year? Fess up or.......
<strong>I am quite disappointed with this release for a few reasons on this update. First off, where is the DDR FSB? You would think by now they would have designed a new northbridge chip to support this feature, especially since from what I have read the 745x processors would benefit quite nicely from such an addition. Secondly, the dual processor machines still use a shared bus to communicate with the motherboard. Agh! It seems not as much R&D went into this update as I was hoping, which in a way makes me wonder if a limited release 970 based system is closer than we might think. </strong><hr></blockquote>
The MPC745x processors wouldn't benefit at all from a northbridge chip that supported a DDR FSB because the MPX bus itself doesn't support it. It would be a waste of R&D money.
Second the shared bus appeals strongly to the embedded markets and that's who the G4 is designed for.
If Apple could improve those areas they would have already done so but currently the G4 isn't worth putting excessive motherboard R&D into.
<strong>Even the last supposeed "hike" in LCD prices NEVER materialized. During the time of Apple's infamous price bump, prices continued to fall. MOst manufacturers had enough back-up stock that the consumer never noticed anything pricewise.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Dell either raised prices or lowered specs a year ago on some of their models.
<strong>so could i buy a mac right now and then add the server software later and it will become a srever i could run off my cable modem
oh wow i think im getting my first apple</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not sure what you're looking for, but if you just want to "serve" web pages from your cable modem, you don't need OS X Server. You just have to turn Web Sharing (i.e., Apache) on. Just curious...
Just FYI, I purchased a 20.1" Cinema Display yesterday, and with free ground shipping, it will already be delivered tomorrow (Thursday) afternoon, as estimated by FedEx tracking. Seems like they are in stock and readily available!
I will try to post some pics of the unpacking and the display itself tomorrow night. Let me know if you have any questions you want answered about the display. I'll post back here tomorrow.
I've been waiting over a year for a mid-range widescreen display, so I'm just a little excited....
Comments
[ 01-28-2003: Message edited by: MacsRGood4U ]</p>
I am quite disappointed with this release for a few reasons on this update. First off, where is the DDR FSB? You would think by now they would have designed a new northbridge chip to support this feature, especially since from what I have read the 745x processors would benefit quite nicely from such an addition. Secondly, the dual processor machines still use a shared bus to communicate with the motherboard. Agh! It seems not as much R&D went into this update as I was hoping, which in a way makes me wonder if a limited release 970 based system is closer than we might think.
I'm just glad Steve didn't announce these @ MacWorld. You can't get a 1.46 until 4-6 weeks from now. If he had announced it on January 6th, that would have been 7-9 weeks! I'm liking this whole new strategy of not releasing everything at MacWorld.
On the positive side, great price strategy Apple! Move enough Power Macs due to reduced pricing can boost total revenue! I can't imagine these systems are all that expensive to produce. A bluetooth module isn't even incorporated into the system itself, you have to buy one! Enough bashing, I might be contradicting myself at this point to say I'm happy to see this update, because a small update is always better than no update.
Long live Apple! Can't wait to be running X-64 on my baby Power4.
[ 01-28-2003: Message edited by: Taproot ]</p>
<strong>This agressive display pricing is pretty amazing. They are going to sell the crap out of these.
Here's a little article at MacNET 2.0:
<a href="http://www.macnet2.com/more.php?id=260_0_1_0_M"; target="_blank">Apple takes the gloves off, offers price points that are impossible to resist</a>
A few interesting snippets:
The 20.1? display takes the place of Apple?s original 22? Cinema Display, with a whopping 1680x1050 resolution, slightly higher than Apple?s now discontinued 22? display. At $1299 this display crushes the nearest competition, Formac?s 20? flat panel, which sells for $1699.00. (We?ll see if Formac reacts with a lower price later today).....
I doubt this display will be easy to come by, since this kind of price has been unheard of before today. Anyone who has been drooling over the 22? Cinema Display which up until an hour ago sold for $2499, are now faced with a display offering the same real estate at half the price. Let?s hope Apple can keep up with the demand for this display.
Even more shocking is Apple?s decision to drop the cost of it?s flagship 23? HD Cinema Display by $1500 to a jaw-dropping $1999.00. There is no other display on the market that offers this size, resolution, and sharpness at anywhere near $1999. Most people expected Apple to drop the price by $500, not $1500.
This kind of aggressive pricing means Apple has taken a serious turn at pushing hardware out the door at prices no one can touch....
Pretty tough to dis the Apple displays now.
[ 01-28-2003: Message edited by: murbot ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
The 20 and 23" displays are competatively priced, the 17", at $699, is not. A quick search on the web shows prices for 17" displays starting out at $359. Now I realize that Apples are of better quality than the lowest priced LCD's, however, NEC, Samsung and Sony all have 17" (1280x1024) displays with both VGA and DVI connectors, built in speakers for under $599 and though you may loose the USB ports it does not warrent the addition of over $100 to the price. Apple should be able to compete with the high end offerings from Sony, NEC, and Samsung since Apples displays lack the internal speakers and additional circutry needed to support both VGA and DVI displays. This does not help Apple sell either PowerMacs or thier displays.
<strong>Get 'em while you can. With the uncertainty of LCD display prices you never know if they may creep up again.
[ 01-28-2003: Message edited by: MacsRGood4U ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I seam to remeber reports predicting a 40% price drop for LCD displays in the next 12-24 months, and that was a few months ago. The fiasco last year that brought up the price of the iMac was due to a large increase in demand for 15" LCD displays, and as I understand it did not increase the price of the 17" LCD's. If that prediction holds true I wouldnt be suprised if we see the 20" LCD's below $1000 this time next year.
The pricedrops on the displays is great, finally you don't have to sell your mother and everything you own to get a nice Apple-branded display.
I really can't find anything to complain about except the usual.
Apple shouldn't be "giving a pound of flesh" like the typical Peecee company. People LOVE excess. We drive SUV's and spend too much money on shiza like comic books, memorabilia etc. Americans are the richest bastards on earth who act like they're broke. Charge'em out the nose.
You have all this inside information. Please elaborate where you get your info from. Do you work in the components industry. Do you have inside knowledge of contracts that Apple has on component parts? Do you know the capacity of the LCD industry and what they can produce over the next year? Fess up or.......
[quote] ? 1GHz PowerPC G4
? 512MB DDR266 SDRAM - 1 DIMM
? 80GB Ultra ATA drive
? Optical 1 - Combo Drive (DVD/CD-RW)
? Optical 2 - None
? ATI Radeon 9000 Pro w/64MB DDR
? Apple Pro Keyboard - U.S. English
? Mac OS - U.S. English
Subtotal $1,587.00
<hr></blockquote>
[ 01-28-2003: Message edited by: serrano ]</p>
<strong>I am quite disappointed with this release for a few reasons on this update. First off, where is the DDR FSB? You would think by now they would have designed a new northbridge chip to support this feature, especially since from what I have read the 745x processors would benefit quite nicely from such an addition. Secondly, the dual processor machines still use a shared bus to communicate with the motherboard. Agh! It seems not as much R&D went into this update as I was hoping, which in a way makes me wonder if a limited release 970 based system is closer than we might think. </strong><hr></blockquote>
The MPC745x processors wouldn't benefit at all from a northbridge chip that supported a DDR FSB because the MPX bus itself doesn't support it. It would be a waste of R&D money.
Second the shared bus appeals strongly to the embedded markets and that's who the G4 is designed for.
If Apple could improve those areas they would have already done so but currently the G4 isn't worth putting excessive motherboard R&D into.
<strong>Even the last supposeed "hike" in LCD prices NEVER materialized. During the time of Apple's infamous price bump, prices continued to fall. MOst manufacturers had enough back-up stock that the consumer never noticed anything pricewise.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Dell either raised prices or lowered specs a year ago on some of their models.
<strong>so could i buy a mac right now and then add the server software later and it will become a srever i could run off my cable modem
oh wow i think im getting my first apple</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not sure what you're looking for, but if you just want to "serve" web pages from your cable modem, you don't need OS X Server. You just have to turn Web Sharing (i.e., Apache) on. Just curious...
I will try to post some pics of the unpacking and the display itself tomorrow night. Let me know if you have any questions you want answered about the display. I'll post back here tomorrow.
I've been waiting over a year for a mid-range widescreen display, so I'm just a little excited....
--------------
RosettaStoned