Wow. This dude spends 90% of each day over the past year posting about politics online and he doesn't know who fucker carlson is. Naples, do you even read anything between spamming the boards with 40 despicable "the water should win" posts a day? Actually, don't bother. The answer is obvious.
Dude, i don't even know who Tucker Carlson is or what he does. Nor do i care.
Ah, well. That's a much better answer than, say, googling him and learning that he's who I've already said he is, which is a guy who makes a living by arguing a lot like you do.
Don't worry, though - your lack of knowledge about one of the better-known professional pundits out there makes your political opinions seem muuuuch more informed and credible.
Personally, though, I suspect you're just lying about not knowing who he is, in order to dodge the actual point I was making by bringing him up in the first place.
Your first statement is suspect at best. Can you substantiate it with something better than "what I heard?"
Here's part of SF's emergency plan:
"Level III
A community- or region-wide event, such as an earthquake. A Mayor's declaration of local emergency would be followed by a Governor's State of Emergency declaration. The Governor may request a Presidential Disaster Declaration. The Site EOP would be implemented and a central District Emergency Operations Center (EOC) would be fully activated to coordinate District-wide response efforts."
I'm sure it is not that different from NOLA.
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Can you explain how both the Louisiana and the Mississippi governor (a Republican with closer ties to Bush than most) made the same procedural mistake?
That statement is completely false. I'd enjoy seeing you try to back it up, though.
All declaration requests must come from the Governor or authorized representative. The Governor can ask for a Presidential disaster declaration or an Small Business Administration (SBA) Administrative declaration, depending upon the severity of the disaster. A Presidential declaration makes many Federal and State programs available, including SBA loans. An SBA declaration makes only SBA loans available.
Presidential Declarations
The Governor contacts the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) if the State believes damages justify a Presidential declaration. FEMA conducts a Preliminary Damage Assessment (PDA) of the area. We join FEMA, State and local representatives in the PDA when the damages include homes and businesses. If the PDA shows enough damages, the Governor can ask for a declaration. FEMA forwards the Governor?s request and the PDA results to the President for a decision. If the President declares the area for Individual Assistance, SBA offers physical and economic injury loans in the declared counties and economic injury (EI) loans only in contiguous counties.
That statement is completely false. I'd enjoy seeing you try to back it up, though.
Oh yeah, and welcome to Political Outsider...
New York Times reports.
Quote:
An estimated 20,000 were to be at the four-story convention center, which at some points apparently attracted as many refugees as the Superdome but was ignored much longer by rescue operations. Conditions there were even worse than at the Superdome, with armed thugs seizing control and, the authorities said, repulsing squads of police officers sent to retake it.
I assume they were ignored because no one really knew how many were there.
BATON ROUGE-Today Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco forwarded a letter to President Bush requesting that he declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina. The full text of the letter follows:
Saturday, August 27, 2005
The President
The White House
Washington, D. C.
Through:
Regional Director
FEMA Region VI
800 North Loop 288
Denton, Texas 76209
Dear Mr. President:
Under the provisions of Section 501 (a) of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5121-5206 (Stafford Act), and implemented by 44 CFR § 206.35, I request that you declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period beginning August 26, 2005, and continuing. The affected areas are all the southeastern parishes including the New Orleans Metropolitan area and the mid state Interstate I-49 corridor and northern parishes along the I-20 corridor that are accepting the thousands of citizens evacuating from the areas expecting to be flooded as a result of Hurricane Katrina.
In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan.
Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster.
Preliminary estimates of the types and amount of emergency assistance needed under the Stafford Act, and emergency assistance from certain Federal agencies under other statutory authorities are tabulated in Enclosure A.
The following information is furnished on the nature and amount of State and local resources that have been or will be used to alleviate the conditions of this emergency:
. Department of Social Services (DSS): Opening (3) Special Need Shelters (SNS) and establishing (3) on Standby.
. Department of Health and Hospitals (DHH): Opening (3) Shelters and establishing (3) on Standby.
. Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (OHSEP): Providing generators and support staff for SNS and Public Shelters.
. Louisiana State Police (LSP): Providing support for the phased evacuation of the coastal areas.
. Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (WLF): Supporting the evacuation of the affected population and preparing for Search and Rescue Missions.
Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD): Coordinating traffic flow and management of the evacuations routes with local officials and the State of Mississippi.
The following information is furnished on efforts and resources of other Federal agencies, which have been or will be used in responding to this incident:
. FEMA ERT-A Team en-route.
I certify that for this emergency, the State and local governments will assume all applicable non-Federal share of costs required by the Stafford Act.
I request Direct Federal assistance for work and services to save lives and protect property.
(a) List any reasons State and local government cannot perform or contract for performance, (if applicable).
(b) Specify the type of assistance requested.
In accordance with 44 CFR § 206.208, the State of Louisiana agrees that it will, with respect to Direct Federal assistance:
1. Provide without cost to the United States all lands, easement, and rights-of-ways necessary to accomplish the approved work.
2. Hold and save the United States free from damages due to the requested work, and shall indemnify the Federal Government against any claims arising from such work;
3. Provide reimbursement to FEMA for the non-Federal share of the cost of such work in accordance with the provisions of the FEMA-State Agreement; and
4. Assist the performing Federal agency in all support and local jurisdictional matters.
In addition, I anticipate the need for debris removal, which poses an immediate threat to lives, public health, and safety.
Pursuant to Sections 502 and 407 of the Stafford Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5192 & 5173, the State agrees to indemnify and hold harmless the United States of America for any claims arising from the removal of debris or wreckage for this disaster. The State agrees that debris removal from public and private property will not occur until the landowner signs an unconditional authorization for the removal of debris.
I have designated Mr. Art Jones as the State Coordinating Officer for this request. He will work with the Federal Emergency Management Agency in damage assessments and may provide further information or justification on my behalf.
Sincerely,
Kathleen Babineaux Blanco
Governor
There you go, Naples - I even bolded the relevant sections (including the date of the request) for you, since I know how much you like to briefly skim anything longer than 3 lines before replying.
There you go, Naples - I even bolded the relevant sections (including the date of the request) for you, since I know how much you like to briefly skim anything longer than 3 lines before replying.
Here I can bold too:
BATON ROUGE-Today Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco forwarded a letter to President Bush requesting that he declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina. The full text of the letter follows:
Now compare that to what i posted previous. careful now,
Maybe your typing skills aren't as dismal as you say, then....
Quote:
The National Guard was called out, and curfews were imposed amid reports of looting in New Orleans and Gulfport.
"The federal government is prepared to help you once the storm passes," said President Bush, who declared the region a disaster area. "In the meantime, America will pray."
Talking about how troops work. In this case a mock terror attack, but you get the point.
Quote:
And though they are federally funded, federally trained and operate according to military doctrine, they are not federal troops. They are National Guard troops in state status. Unless called to federal service by the President, Guard units are under the command of their state governors, which makes them uniquely poised for the civil support mission.
"It's widely believed that federal assets would arrive on the scene too late," says Charles Cragin, assistant secretary of Defense for reserve affairs. "A federal asset in this environment is a slower response. The only way to get there fast was to make these teams a state asset."
A state of emergency is a governmental declaration that may suspend certain normal functions of government, may work to alert citizens to alter their normal behaviors, or may order government agencies to implement emergency preparedness plans. It can also be used as a rationale for suspending civil liberties. Such declarations usually come during a time of natural disaster, during periods of civil unrest, or following a declaration of war (therefore, in democratic countries many call this martial law, most with non critical intent).
The National Guard was called out, and curfews were imposed amid reports of looting in New Orleans and Gulfport.
"The federal government is prepared to help you once the storm passes," said President Bush, who declared the region a disaster area. "In the meantime, America will pray."
Originally Published Tuesday, August 30
Quote:
Getting clearer?
I'm pretty unclear about point exactly you are trying to make with these quotes.
I thought it was something about paperwork being filed improperly by the governor and the states of emergency and disaster not getting declared in a timely manner as a result.
It's a moot point because FEMA and the federal Homeland Security Department were tasked with coordinating the federal response and were aware of what their role was supposed to be even before katrina hit land.
I'm pretty unclear about point exactly you are trying to make with these quotes.
I thought it was something about paperwork being filed improperly by the governor and the states of emergency and disaster not getting declared in a timely manner as a result.
I'm tired an this is not worth arguing about.
I guess we will find out when the investigations start. I assure you that state governors have to request help. The military can't just march in without a request. I would think that would be unconstitutional.
You were arguing against my post disagreeing with the following:
Quote:
Originally posted by PBook12
[B]What I heard was that the governor failed to call up the national guard before the storm. Failed to pull the "disaster area" trigger soon enough after the storm. That trigger starts the federal reaction.
But, I think your last post means that you've given up, so you're calling it a night, and tomorrow you'll ignore the fact that this whole absurd sub-argument you cooked up ever existed.
Really, naples, it's just disgusting watching you try to parse law in an effort to deflect blame from federal agencies.
Everyone deserves blame. Of course, most of us can't really do anything about the louisiana government's failures, but we can do something about the federal governments failures.
Comments
Originally posted by NaplesX
I don't agree with him and why should I?
Oh, you've got me now.
It's obvious that you're a very, very independent thinker.
Hey, do you suppose that if it's even remotely possible that Bush was without blame, one of his biggest and most consistent supporters would say so?
Hmm. . . Naa.
Originally posted by PBook12
This isn't political outsider. I stay out of that forum. Maybe I'll stay out of this one.
Ahh, guess you missed my sarcasm. Sorry, too subtle.
My apologies also for getting so political in my reply to your apolitical post.
Did you catch the sarcasm that time?
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Oh, you've got me now.
It's obvious that you're a very, very independent thinker.
Hey, do you suppose that if it's even remotely possible that Bush was without blame, one of his biggest and most consistent supporters would say so?
Hmm. . . Naa.
Dude, i don't even know who Tucker Carlson is or what he does. Nor do i care.
Originally posted by NaplesX
Dude, i don't even know who Tucker Carlson is or what he does. Nor do i care.
Ah, well. That's a much better answer than, say, googling him and learning that he's who I've already said he is, which is a guy who makes a living by arguing a lot like you do.
Don't worry, though - your lack of knowledge about one of the better-known professional pundits out there makes your political opinions seem muuuuch more informed and credible.
Personally, though, I suspect you're just lying about not knowing who he is, in order to dodge the actual point I was making by bringing him up in the first place.
But hey, whatever makes you happy, and all that.
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Your first statement is suspect at best. Can you substantiate it with something better than "what I heard?"
Here's part of SF's emergency plan:
"Level III
A community- or region-wide event, such as an earthquake. A Mayor's declaration of local emergency would be followed by a Governor's State of Emergency declaration. The Governor may request a Presidential Disaster Declaration. The Site EOP would be implemented and a central District Emergency Operations Center (EOC) would be fully activated to coordinate District-wide response efforts."
I'm sure it is not that different from NOLA.
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Can you explain how both the Louisiana and the Mississippi governor (a Republican with closer ties to Bush than most) made the same procedural mistake?
That statement is completely false. I'd enjoy seeing you try to back it up, though.
I think it was you that brought up MS, not him.
HOW DISASTER DECLARATIONS ARE MADE
All declaration requests must come from the Governor or authorized representative. The Governor can ask for a Presidential disaster declaration or an Small Business Administration (SBA) Administrative declaration, depending upon the severity of the disaster. A Presidential declaration makes many Federal and State programs available, including SBA loans. An SBA declaration makes only SBA loans available.
Presidential Declarations
The Governor contacts the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) if the State believes damages justify a Presidential declaration. FEMA conducts a Preliminary Damage Assessment (PDA) of the area. We join FEMA, State and local representatives in the PDA when the damages include homes and businesses. If the PDA shows enough damages, the Governor can ask for a declaration. FEMA forwards the Governor?s request and the PDA results to the President for a decision. If the President declares the area for Individual Assistance, SBA offers physical and economic injury loans in the declared counties and economic injury (EI) loans only in contiguous counties.
Originally posted by FormerLurker
...
That statement is completely false. I'd enjoy seeing you try to back it up, though.
Oh yeah, and welcome to Political Outsider...
New York Times reports.
An estimated 20,000 were to be at the four-story convention center, which at some points apparently attracted as many refugees as the Superdome but was ignored much longer by rescue operations. Conditions there were even worse than at the Superdome, with armed thugs seizing control and, the authorities said, repulsing squads of police officers sent to retake it.
I assume they were ignored because no one really knew how many were there.
BATON ROUGE-Today Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco forwarded a letter to President Bush requesting that he declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina. The full text of the letter follows:
Saturday, August 27, 2005
The President
The White House
Washington, D. C.
Through:
Regional Director
FEMA Region VI
800 North Loop 288
Denton, Texas 76209
Dear Mr. President:
Under the provisions of Section 501 (a) of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5121-5206 (Stafford Act), and implemented by 44 CFR § 206.35, I request that you declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period beginning August 26, 2005, and continuing. The affected areas are all the southeastern parishes including the New Orleans Metropolitan area and the mid state Interstate I-49 corridor and northern parishes along the I-20 corridor that are accepting the thousands of citizens evacuating from the areas expecting to be flooded as a result of Hurricane Katrina.
In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan.
Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster.
Preliminary estimates of the types and amount of emergency assistance needed under the Stafford Act, and emergency assistance from certain Federal agencies under other statutory authorities are tabulated in Enclosure A.
The following information is furnished on the nature and amount of State and local resources that have been or will be used to alleviate the conditions of this emergency:
. Department of Social Services (DSS): Opening (3) Special Need Shelters (SNS) and establishing (3) on Standby.
. Department of Health and Hospitals (DHH): Opening (3) Shelters and establishing (3) on Standby.
. Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (OHSEP): Providing generators and support staff for SNS and Public Shelters.
. Louisiana State Police (LSP): Providing support for the phased evacuation of the coastal areas.
. Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (WLF): Supporting the evacuation of the affected population and preparing for Search and Rescue Missions.
Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD): Coordinating traffic flow and management of the evacuations routes with local officials and the State of Mississippi.
The following information is furnished on efforts and resources of other Federal agencies, which have been or will be used in responding to this incident:
. FEMA ERT-A Team en-route.
I certify that for this emergency, the State and local governments will assume all applicable non-Federal share of costs required by the Stafford Act.
I request Direct Federal assistance for work and services to save lives and protect property.
(a) List any reasons State and local government cannot perform or contract for performance, (if applicable).
(b) Specify the type of assistance requested.
In accordance with 44 CFR § 206.208, the State of Louisiana agrees that it will, with respect to Direct Federal assistance:
1. Provide without cost to the United States all lands, easement, and rights-of-ways necessary to accomplish the approved work.
2. Hold and save the United States free from damages due to the requested work, and shall indemnify the Federal Government against any claims arising from such work;
3. Provide reimbursement to FEMA for the non-Federal share of the cost of such work in accordance with the provisions of the FEMA-State Agreement; and
4. Assist the performing Federal agency in all support and local jurisdictional matters.
In addition, I anticipate the need for debris removal, which poses an immediate threat to lives, public health, and safety.
Pursuant to Sections 502 and 407 of the Stafford Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5192 & 5173, the State agrees to indemnify and hold harmless the United States of America for any claims arising from the removal of debris or wreckage for this disaster. The State agrees that debris removal from public and private property will not occur until the landowner signs an unconditional authorization for the removal of debris.
I have designated Mr. Art Jones as the State Coordinating Officer for this request. He will work with the Federal Emergency Management Agency in damage assessments and may provide further information or justification on my behalf.
Sincerely,
Kathleen Babineaux Blanco
Governor
There you go, Naples - I even bolded the relevant sections (including the date of the request) for you, since I know how much you like to briefly skim anything longer than 3 lines before replying.
Originally posted by PBook12
New York Times reports.
I assume they were ignored because no one really knew how many were there.
You probablu realize that if your "assumption" favors Bush, you are "assumed" stupid and uninformed by the majority here.
BTW, are you going for a record number of posts in a day? You already have about double the posts of anyone else in each of these threads.
Originally posted by FormerLurker
There you go, Naples - I even bolded the relevant sections (including the date of the request) for you, since I know how much you like to briefly skim anything longer than 3 lines before replying.
Here I can bold too:
BATON ROUGE-Today Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco forwarded a letter to President Bush requesting that he declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina. The full text of the letter follows:
Now compare that to what i posted previous. careful now,
Originally posted by NaplesX
Here I can bold too:
Maybe your typing skills aren't as dismal as you say, then....
The National Guard was called out, and curfews were imposed amid reports of looting in New Orleans and Gulfport.
"The federal government is prepared to help you once the storm passes," said President Bush, who declared the region a disaster area. "In the meantime, America will pray."
Originally Published Tuesday, August 30
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-291881c.html
NEXT???
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Maybe your typing skills aren't as dismal as you say, then....
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-291881c.html
NEXT???
???? indeed.
http://www.govexec.com/features/0600/0600s2.htm
Talking about how troops work. In this case a mock terror attack, but you get the point.
And though they are federally funded, federally trained and operate according to military doctrine, they are not federal troops. They are National Guard troops in state status. Unless called to federal service by the President, Guard units are under the command of their state governors, which makes them uniquely poised for the civil support mission.
"It's widely believed that federal assets would arrive on the scene too late," says Charles Cragin, assistant secretary of Defense for reserve affairs. "A federal asset in this environment is a slower response. The only way to get there fast was to make these teams a state asset."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_emergency
State of emergency
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
A state of emergency is a governmental declaration that may suspend certain normal functions of government, may work to alert citizens to alter their normal behaviors, or may order government agencies to implement emergency preparedness plans. It can also be used as a rationale for suspending civil liberties. Such declarations usually come during a time of natural disaster, during periods of civil unrest, or following a declaration of war (therefore, in democratic countries many call this martial law, most with non critical intent).
Getting clearer?
Originally posted by NaplesX
???? indeed.
http://www.govexec.com/features/0600/0600s2.htm
Talking about how troops work. In this case a mock terror attack, but you get the point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_emergency
Looks like I didn't use enough bold last time.
The National Guard was called out, and curfews were imposed amid reports of looting in New Orleans and Gulfport.
"The federal government is prepared to help you once the storm passes," said President Bush, who declared the region a disaster area. "In the meantime, America will pray."
Originally Published Tuesday, August 30
Getting clearer?
I'm pretty unclear about point exactly you are trying to make with these quotes.
I thought it was something about paperwork being filed improperly by the governor and the states of emergency and disaster not getting declared in a timely manner as a result.
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Looks like I didn't use enough bold last time.
I'm pretty unclear about point exactly you are trying to make with these quotes.
I thought it was something about paperwork being filed improperly by the governor and the states of emergency and disaster not getting declared in a timely manner as a result.
I'm tired an this is not worth arguing about.
I guess we will find out when the investigations start. I assure you that state governors have to request help. The military can't just march in without a request. I would think that would be unconstitutional.
edit - fine, I'll catch a fish for you.
You were arguing against my post disagreeing with the following:
Originally posted by PBook12
[B]What I heard was that the governor failed to call up the national guard before the storm. Failed to pull the "disaster area" trigger soon enough after the storm. That trigger starts the federal reaction.
But, I think your last post means that you've given up, so you're calling it a night, and tomorrow you'll ignore the fact that this whole absurd sub-argument you cooked up ever existed.
Originally posted by FormerLurker
"in other words, you're full of it"
Everyone deserves blame. Of course, most of us can't really do anything about the louisiana government's failures, but we can do something about the federal governments failures.