MS and Intel back HD DVD over Blu-ray

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
Microsoft and Intel on Monday threw their support towards the next-generation HD DVD format being promoted by the DVD Forum, pitting themselves against Apple and other electronics manufacturers that have so far sided with Sony's competing Blu-ray format.



According to Macworld UK, the world's largest software maker and the world's largest microchip maker announced their support for HD-DVD by joining the HD-DVD Promotion Group, an industry organization set up to promote adoption of the optical disc format.



Other members of the group include electronics makers NEC, Sanyo and Toshiba, as well as content providers Universal Studios and Paramount Pictures. The company's say the HD DVD format would make it easier for consumers to copy high-definition movies to computer hard drives.



The format of next-generation DVD discs, designed to store movies and other content with much more detail and clarity, have sparked a three-year battle between the DVD Forum and Sony, over what is expected to be a multi-billion-dollar market for next-generation DVD players, PC drives and optical discs, according to Reuters.



In March, Apple teamed with the likes of Samsung and Panasonic in vouching its support for Sony's Blu-ray HD format by joining the Blu-ray Disc Association.



Despite the fact that Intel and Microsoft combine to supply the technology behind at least 9 out of every 10 personal computers, their decision to back the HD DVD format at this time does not end all hope for the Blu-ray format.



Sony's Blu-ray format continues to garner ongoing support in Hollywood, with several studios, including Walt Disney, Sony Pictures and Twentieth Century Fox, saying that they will release high-definition movies on Blu-ray.



Meanwhile, Universal Studios and Paramount Pictures are backing HD DVD.



High-definition DVD discs, such Blu-ray discs, will have five times larger capacity than today's DVDs, with a single-layer disc holding up to 25 gigabytes of data and a double-layer disc holding up to 50 gigabytes of data.



The first HD DVD-compatible players and recorders are expected to start appearing on store shelves as early as the end of this year, with new products for both formats scheduled for wider release in 2006.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 297
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,219member
    I see this move as Microsoft and Intel's cozying up to the bigwigs at the studios at the expense of their customers. It would be an interesting poll to take, but I bet that 95 % or so of the Wintel user base prefers Blu-Ray over HD-DVD. Had Microsoft and Intel announced for Blu-Ray, HD-DVD would be deader than last week's carp. This serves to stir up the market, but I believe that Blu-Ray will prevail in the end. It is just that Windows OEMs and users will have to rely on third-party solutions.
  • Reply 2 of 297
    I really don't think Intel cares one way or another, aside from the possible fact that they don't want to be in the pool with Sony. The ultimate conclusion to this battle will involve component cost of blu-ray vs. hd-dvd hardware. If volumes can get the price down, then that's a big deal.



    Unfortunately for HD-DVD, PC's won't adopt HD-DVD for some time, even if it's supported by MS. The PC hardware industry is extremely cost driven, as well as extremely phobic of new peripheral hardware. The winner will be whoever can get the product out first, en masse, with media behind it.
  • Reply 3 of 297
    I've heard that only HD-DVD will have backwards-compatibility with DVDs. If that is the case, I sure as hell won't be buying a PC or Mac that comes with a "Blu-Ray" disc drive, especially after all the backup DVDs I've burned.



    Even if Blu-Ray does have backwards-compatibility with DVDs, I'd still rather have HD-DVD; HD-DVD sounds like it'll be much cheaper than Blu-Ray and will have a less orwellian DRM system on it.



    So really, I'll spring for whichever is cheapest, least restrictive with DRM, and most compatible. Both sound spacious enough to a person with only an 80 Gb hard drive.
  • Reply 4 of 297
    maniamania Posts: 104member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. Me

    I see this move as Microsoft and Intel's cozying up to the bigwigs at the studios at the expense of their customers. It would be an interesting poll to take, but I bet that 95 % or so of the Wintel user base prefers Blu-Ray over HD-DVD.



    first, why is this at the expense of their customers? by all accounts blu-ray will cost more and not be backward compatable. this sounds to me like helping their customers.



    second, i bet 95% of the user base has no idea what blu-ray is, let alone favor it.



    third, i for one will stick with plain ol' dvd as will most consumers (think CD vs DVDaudio/superdisc). CDs win because they are good enough for most people, fairly cheap, play in any player, and can be ripped. same goes for dvds.
  • Reply 5 of 297
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Neither HD-DVD nor Blu-Ray are directly backward compatible with current DVD. They both use completely different technology from current DVD.



    HD/BD use blue laser which focus a tighter beam. Current DVD/CD use red laser. Future hardware will have to have a blue and a red laser to play HD/BD and backward compatibility with current DVD/CD.



    From my understanding MS may be more willing to back HD-DVD because it will make more concessions to MS's proprietary VC-1 codec. While Blu-Ray is more based on MPEG-4, but does include VC-1.



    HD-DVD won't be in the upcoming XBox, so who knows when MS will actually ship something with the format.



    It is known for sure PS 3 will ship with Blu-Ray.



    I'm not sure why Intel is to back HD-DVD. From a computer storage standpoint Blu-Ray is the clear winner.



    As far as cost both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD would be far more expensive than current DVD in the beginning. And both will come down in price as they become more of a commodity. At this point no one can say if one would be more expensive for consumers than the other.
  • Reply 6 of 297
    I don't mind having two devices: a dvd and a blu-ray. DVD players are cheap as dirt these days, and I'm buying a PS3 or two as soon as they come off the docks. (Yes, I'm part of the "hack the PS3" initiative.)



    As far as regular joes, it doesn't seem to me like it's like a big deal to have a DVD player as well as a Blu-ray player. There's plenty of room under a huge, HDTV for many components.
  • Reply 7 of 297
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,071member
    Unless something changes (lower HD-DVD prices, present in the xbox360 at launch), I just don't see HD-DVD having any traction at all.



    Who would pay $1000 for a HD-DVD player, when you could get a PS3 for half of that?
  • Reply 8 of 297
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tirefire

    ...especially after all the backup DVDs I've burned.



    So, in a year's time, you'll be restoring year-plus old backups?!



    Eh?
  • Reply 9 of 297
    Quote:

    Neither HD-DVD nor Blu-Ray are directly backward compatible with current DVD. They both use completely different technology from current DVD.



    Only partially true. HD-DVD uses the same disc structure as DVD. They both employ similar Numerical Aperture this is why a DVD-9 Pressing Plant can be upgraded to HD-DVD for 150k (source Rick Marquardt industry vet)



    Blu-Ray requires a whole new pressing plant estimated at 2 million capital outlay (source Rick Marquardt)



    Any economy of scale that Blu-Ray sees will undoubtedly be seen by HD-DVD as well meaning HD-DVD should be the price leader for quite some time.



    Quote:

    From my understanding MS may be more willing to back HD-DVD because it will make more concessions to MS's proprietary VC-1 codec. While Blu-Ray is more based on MPEG-4, but does include VC-1.



    Blu-Ray had it's origins in MPEG2...in fact Sony has to be basically forced into adding MPEG4/AVC and VC-1. At one time Sony had planned to eschew any type of Red Laser compatibility.



    Quote:

    As far as cost both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD would be far more expensive than current DVD in the beginning. And both will come down in price as they become more of a commodity. At this point no one can say if one would be more expensive for consumers than the other



    No, quite the contrary. People in the industry have a much better idea about what HD-DVD will entail and frankly are waiting to see concrete evidence regarding the costs of Blu-Ray production. BD discs will require a spin coat and this doesn't necessarily mean that TDK's Durabis will be used due to expense. There are more than one spin coat competing technologies and to date Sony hasn't mandated any particular tech.



    I think MS support almost guarantees and Xbox 360 HD. I'll buy both a PS3 and an Xbox 360 HD in this case. Most newer HDMI receivers have 2 to 1 switching. Perfect for both units.



    This is a see saw battle and one week Blu-Ray will look good and the next HD-DVD will look good. We'll have to wait and see what the final products look like.
  • Reply 10 of 297
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tirefire

    I've heard that only HD-DVD will have backwards-compatibility with DVDs. If that is the case, I sure as hell won't be buying a PC or Mac that comes with a "Blu-Ray" disc drive, especially after all the backup DVDs I've burned.



    Even if Blu-Ray does have backwards-compatibility with DVDs, I'd still rather have HD-DVD; HD-DVD sounds like it'll be much cheaper than Blu-Ray and will have a less orwellian DRM system on it.




    I almost spilled my tea onto the keyboard reading that. Really, the (legal) movies you get on either kind of disk will cram DRM up your throat. If you care about that, you can't buy either kind.



    I only started buying DVD's after DeCSS went public and I knew I could get the raw data off the disk. However, since I haven't found a way to unlock my Macs' drives after switching, I now have movies in my shelf I can't watch due to wrong region. I've wised up, and will only shell out money for HD when the disk is clean. DRM on product breaks copyright's basic premise, so I no longer consider copyright to apply to any product equipped with it.Quote:

    So really, I'll spring for whichever is cheapest, least restrictive with DRM, and most compatible. Both sound spacious enough to a person with only an 80 Gb hard drive.



    You plan to have a 80GB hard drive after a year? After two years?
  • Reply 11 of 297
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. Me

    I see this move as Microsoft and Intel's cozying up to the bigwigs at the studios at the expense of their customers. It would be an interesting poll to take, but I bet that 95 % or so of the Wintel user base prefers Blu-Ray over HD-DVD. Had Microsoft and Intel announced for Blu-Ray, HD-DVD would be deader than last week's carp. This serves to stir up the market, but I believe that Blu-Ray will prevail in the end. It is just that Windows OEMs and users will have to rely on third-party solutions.



    let's not forget the cool name too...Blu-Ray kicks HD-DVD's ass anyday (think Firewire vs: IEEE-1394, and yes I know they're the same)



    Kinda makes sense for the studios to back the one with the most DRM/Dollar on it...although the DVD regions is a pain in the ass for people with (legal) DVD's from 2 (or more) regions.
  • Reply 12 of 297
    Blu-Ray is finished. I'll languish for bit and then fade. Here's why.



    1. MS and Intel support. Both 800lb Gorillas in their field. Both HD-DVD. Both have multimedia initiatives in Media Center PC and Intel ViiV hardware platform.



    2. Costs- Two large Pressers in China announced support for HD-DVD. %75 of dvds are made in China. Huge



    3. Size- HD-DVD is far ahead with working models. MS and Intel claim that Sony isn't mass producing 50GB discs thus it's 30GB versus SL BDROM 25GB.



    4. Licensing- Blu-Ray uses BD-Java which could cost as much as $6 per player. HD-DVD uses XML based iHD which is far cheaper and requires less programming knowledge.



    5. Hybrid support. HD-DVD supports DL 30GB plus a SL DVD 4.7GB on the flipside. Perfect transition format.



    Things just got dire for the BDA.
  • Reply 13 of 297
    Quote:

    Only partially true. HD-DVD uses the same disc structure as DVD.



    I wasn't speaking to manufactuering procedure only its backward capability to current DVD. Which neither HD or BD are because of red and blue laser.



    Quote:

    Sony has to be basically forced into adding MPEG4/AVC and VC-1. At one time Sony had planned to eschew any type of Red Laser compatibility.



    Be that as it may. BD supports MPEG 4 and VC-1 now.



    Quote:

    No, quite the contrary. People in the industry have a much better idea about what HD-DVD will entail and frankly are waiting to see concrete evidence regarding the costs of Blu-Ray production.



    Its not contrary its the same thing I said, costs between the two for the consumer is unknown at this point. Being an unknown doesn't mean BD will be substantially more expensive for the consumer than HD.



    You are referencing that complete one sided op-ed piece on Arstechnica.



    Quote:

    I think MS support almost guarantees and Xbox 360 HD.



    XBox will launch before Christmas and no it will not support HD-DVD. In fact no one is shipping HD-DVD before this Christmas.



    Quote:

    Blu-Ray is finished. I'll languish for bit and then fade. Here's why.



    I don't care which wins myself.



    But someone who is vested in Blu-Ray has plenty of reason it is not dead and could prevail. One reason is the fact that Blu-Ray will be in Play Station 3.
  • Reply 14 of 297
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gon

    I only started buying DVD's after DeCSS went public and I knew I could get the raw data off the disk. However, since I haven't found a way to unlock my Macs' drives after switching, I now have movies in my shelf I can't watch due to wrong region.



    On a Mac, it's trivial to extract the DVD data even on locked drives. I have yet to unlock my drives and I have done this.
  • Reply 15 of 297
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gon

    [B]I almost spilled my tea onto the keyboard reading that. Really, the (legal) movies you get on either kind of disk will cram DRM up your throat. If you care about that, you can't buy either kind.



    I only started buying DVD's after DeCSS went public and I knew I could get the raw data off the disk. However, since I haven't found a way to unlock my Macs' drives after switching, I now have movies in my shelf I can't watch due to wrong region. I've wised up, and will only shell out money for HD when the disk is clean. DRM on product breaks copyright's basic premise, so I no longer consider copyright to apply to any product equipped with it.You plan to have a 80GB hard drive after a year? After two years?





    eh...? VLC from videolan and macTheRipper is all you need
  • Reply 16 of 297
    Didn't Apple pledge support for HD-DVD and HD in all of it's video/DVD editing and authorizing products? Thought so.
  • Reply 17 of 297
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Jared

    Didn't Apple pledge support for HD-DVD and HD in all of it's video/DVD editing and authorizing products? Thought so.



    Apple does have rudimentary support for HD-DVD in their DVD Studio Pro and their OS X-included DVD Player reads it. It basically allows HD video on DVD writables or disk images. I really don't know if there is a standard that is complete enough to have good compatibility testing.



    The odd thing is that they are a member of the Blu-Ray group, not HD-DVD.
  • Reply 18 of 297
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Blu-Ray is finished. I'll languish for bit and then fade. Here's why.



    1. MS and Intel support. Both 800lb Gorillas in their field. Both HD-DVD. Both have multimedia initiatives in Media Center PC and Intel ViiV hardware platform.



    2. Costs- Two large Pressers in China announced support for HD-DVD. %75 of dvds are made in China. Huge



    3. Size- HD-DVD is far ahead with working models. MS and Intel claim that Sony isn't mass producing 50GB discs thus it's 30GB versus SL BDROM 25GB.



    4. Licensing- Blu-Ray uses BD-Java which could cost as much as $6 per player. HD-DVD uses XML based iHD which is far cheaper and requires less programming knowledge.



    5. Hybrid support. HD-DVD supports DL 30GB plus a SL DVD 4.7GB on the flipside. Perfect transition format.



    Things just got dire for the BDA.






    Ah no, HD-DVD is already chocking on water and is minutes away from drowning.



    1)HP, Apple and Dell back BRD, so it doesn't matter one bit what M$ and Intel do.



    2)The majority of movie companies (big boys) support BRD.



    3)Size, you're comparing the HD-DVDF to the single layer BRD, try comparing it to the dual layer at over 50gigs a disk



    So, let's summarize, they have the PC MAKERS, the have the bigger movie studios which means CONTENT and they will have the bigger, better GAME CONSOLE all supporting BRD. HD-DVD is over.
  • Reply 19 of 297
    celcocelco Posts: 211member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Splinemodel

    I really don't think Intel cares one way or another, aside from the possible fact that they don't want to be in the pool with Sony. The ultimate conclusion to this battle will involve component cost of blu-ray vs. hd-dvd hardware. If volumes can get the price down, then that's a big deal.



    Unfortunately for HD-DVD, PC's won't adopt HD-DVD for some time, even if it's supported by MS. The PC hardware industry is extremely cost driven, as well as extremely phobic of new peripheral hardware. The winner will be whoever can get the product out first, en masse, with media behind it.






    On the money dude! PC users dont like new trends.. it will take a hardware innovator to make the leap. Move over superdrive here come BlueDrive?.
  • Reply 20 of 297
    See, this is where Big Government? can be useful. If the industry was told:



    "We don't care what tech you come up with, there will be ONLY ONE HiDef DVD standard. Period. Now go have a meeting and come up with one standard if you wnat to sell any of them in the US"



    things would be better. No one would dictate the tech, but merely demand that there will not be multiple standards. If it meant relaxing some antitrust provision then so be it. We don't allow multiple TV broadcast standards why is this different (ignoring current transition from analog to digital TV)?



    Multiple standards are just wasteful and hard on consumers.
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