It actually has better specs than the Denon with BD Profile. Samsung seems to be profile 2.0 compliant where the Denon is only profile 1.1 complaint based on limited information available.
Based on what? It doesn't say anything about memory.
They are RANKS for crying out loud. You don't know how many sales rank 134 relates to and you don't know how many sales rank 171 relates to.
171 to 134 could very well be 2:1 as well as 171:10 could be 1.5:1. And a rank of 171 one day doesn't mean the same amount of sales as a rank of 171 any other day.
Yes Vinea and the multiplicity of Blu-ray STB vendors combined don't more players in the market than Toshiba. Think about that...Philips, Samung, Pioneer, Sony, Panasonic all have sold such few players they haven't usurped Toshibas venerable STB lineup.[/
It's equally hard to attract new vendors to Blu-ray when your players cannot even exceed the quality of a PS3 easily at under $499.
What other big vendors than Sony, Pioneer, Samsung, Philips, Panasonic, Denon, LG, Funai, and Sharp are there?
And BDA attracted Denon and Funai while HD DVD attracted who?
And even though there is the PS3 the standalone BD players have 45% of the standalone market.
Think about that. The low price of Toshiba's low end player hasn't resulted in more than a 10% lead in standalone sales.
But that's the point I made earlier...why is $99 the magic number?
It's the first number not 3 digits?
Quote:
I can see some reasons it might be, but my feeling is that people still consider HD video a premium/luxury product, so to speak. The problem is you're going after the wrong market there, a market different from what the manufacturers wanted when these formats came out. They were all about picture quality and features, not winning a price war.
The < $99 would appeal to all the folks that bought a large screen HDTV for the Super Bowl and ESPN HD. That would be...quite a few judging the talk around the office cooler. Some have units costing less than a grand from Costco. A premium/luxury product available from the super-warehouse stores.
Quote:
A $99 price point might entice some consumers who would otherwise by an SD player. But then that consumer has to consider upgrading their library. Such a price conscious person is not going to make the switch. No, the people buying these products are people who want a better viewing experience and are willing to pay to get it.
Everyone already has a DVD player. The $99 price points appeals to everyone going "Huh...these DVDs suck in comparison to ESPN-HD...the HD-DVD player is only $99 and I'm gonna watch 300 on it fer sure".
Nobody in that price segment is going to replace their DVD collection (all 40 or so of them) but buy new releases.
Quote:
A $99 mass market assault is likely premature at this point. Granted, players will commonly get that cheap, but by that time one format will be the defacto standard.
Or make one format become the de facto standard.
IMHO this is the only way for Toshiba to win. As poorly as the PS3 is doing as a console the millions of units makes it the current defacto HD standard just on pure volume. 180K units is NOTHING. At $99 then Toshiba can boast its first millionth sale.
Read it again. The article does specifically say, "Target does not sell high-def DVD players in its stores, although it does sell a Toshiba player for $299 on its Web site...Target would not say why it decided to sell only Blu-ray players." Sounds like hardware exclusivity in the stores to me.
Its funny that some of us have been saying this for a while (in one way or another) about HD-DVD. but in terms of sales it has CONSISTANTLY been in second place, yet you keep feeding it "points"
I'm also going to try and take a break from arguing with you, its pointless, but fear not when you post something WAAY off, I'm sure I wont resist for long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
The second tier, Top 25 and Top 100 aren't good for putting your finger on the pulse of HDM.
The Top 10 is all about what's hot right now!
all about whats hot right now? mm ok, shouldnt you qualify that with "as long as it supports my point of view, if not then I will use some other data as evidence" your as changeable as the weather murch, of course you would likely point out that the weather hasnt been that changeable where you are
You remind me of the two guys arguing in the bar, to emphasise a point one said "does the pope say mass?" there then followed an argument about wheather or not the pope did say mass, largely ignoring the fact that the pope is indeed catholic and would at the very least ATTEND mass. but why agree on the obvious when you can obfuscate with nebulous perplexity.
What other big vendors than Sony, Pioneer, Samsung, Philips, Panasonic, Denon, LG, Funai, and Sharp are there?
And BDA attracted Denon and Funai while HD DVD attracted who?
And even though there is the PS3 the standalone BD players have 45% of the standalone market.
Think about that. The low price of Toshiba's low end player hasn't resulted in more than a 10% lead in standalone sales.
Samsung and Meridian.
True it hasn't but it's a lead nonetheless which didn't require "packing" a HD player into a game console to get players out.
It matters little to me though. I'll likely eventually replace my HD DVD player with a Universal player. I'm not caught up in the dogma so much that I would deprive myself of content. Those who want one platform...fine. But when the price is right I'll make the move. In fact many would pay a premium for a CD/DVD/HDDVD/Blu-ray/SACD/DVDA player with maybe divx support. Do that player right and it'll sell well for 800 bucks for enthusiasts.
True it hasn't but it's a lead nonetheless which didn't require "packing" a HD player into a game console to get players out.
So because of the PS3 people are buying standalones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
It matters little to me though. I'll likely eventually replace my HD DVD player with a Universal player. I'm not caught up in the dogma so much that I would deprive myself of content. Those who want one platform...fine. But when the price is right I'll make the move. In fact many would pay a premium for a CD/DVD/HDDVD/Blu-ray/SACD/DVDA player with maybe divx support. Do that player right and it'll sell well for 800 bucks for enthusiasts.
$800 is a premium for that? What is $4,000 for a CD/DVD/SACD/DVDA player then? Those are the players enthusiasts are buying.
And I can't stop chuckling when thinking of a situation where people are paying a premium to buy combos and a premium to buy Warner THDs.
Its funny that some of us have been saying this for a while (in one way or another) about HD-DVD. but in terms of sales it has CONSISTANTLY been in second place, yet you keep feeding it "points"
Good point. It's funny that he says "no points for second place" when the very chart he links to says HD DVD was, is and likely will continue to be in second place. Maybe I'll make that my sig. "NO POINTS FOR SECOND PLACE, MURCH!"
In a story that swept across the web Tuesday afternoon, Target has announced plans to help promote the Blu-ray format during this year's critical holiday shopping season.
The nation's second largest retailer already sells software on both next-gen formats in its stores, along with both the Blu-ray enabled PS3 and the Xbox 360's HD DVD add-on player.
ADVERTISEMENT
'300' on
Blu-ray and HD DVD
In stores 7/31/07. Order from Amazon today and save 30% off list price:
$34.99 $23.95 $39.95 $27.95
More Blu-ray Pre-orders | More HD DVD Pre-orders
But starting in October, the retailer says it will begin stocking its first stand-alone high-def disc player -- Sony's BDP-S300 Blu-ray player, which will be displayed along with a selection Blu-ray discs at the ends of store aisles.
According to press reports, the Sony Blu-ray player will be the only stand-alone high-def disc player sold by the chain in its 1,500 physical stores. Although Sony is reportedly paying a fee for the aisle displays (called "endcaps"), the manufacturer says Target initiated discussions to carry the Blu-ray player.
Target declined to comment on the rationale behind the decision, but in a statement released to the Assiciated Press, the retailer emphasized that it has not chosen sides in the high-def format war.
"We are not proclaiming one format vs. the other as the preferred consumer technology, and software will continue to be available to our guests in both the Blu-ray and HD DVD format," said Target spokeswoman Brie Heath.
My emphasis added bitemymac. I know it is rough, but Blu-ray exclusivity for players in-store is a reality. Great news for HD DVD!
Based on what? It doesn't say anything about memory.
I have briefly looked through the specs on the denon BD player, which claims full BD profile 1.1, however the unit does not have an ethernet connection which automatically fails to comply with profile 2.0. Perhaps specs may change at the later time, but for the time being it is not, unfortunately.
The new Samsung Duo/Combo player fully complies with HD-DVD HDi interactivity including internet interactivity, which means that it should fully comply to BD profile 2.0.
My emphasis added bitemymac. I know it is rough, but Blu-ray exclusivity for players in-store is a reality. Great news for HD DVD!
So, Sony buying Target shelf space to sell $499 Sony BD player make them exlusive to BD?
Toshiba makes Walmart exclusive HD-DVD model, HD-A2W, to sell at $199 and this makes Walmart HD-DVD exclusive by your definition of exclusivity?
Even the paragraph below your highlight says:
Target declined to comment on the rationale behind the decision, but in a statement released to the Assiciated Press, the retailer emphasized that it has not chosen sides in the high-def format war.
"We are not proclaiming one format vs. the other as the preferred consumer technology, and software will continue to be available to our guests in both the Blu-ray and HD DVD format," said Target spokeswoman Brie Heath.
I can careless about the the news, but it's just hard to overlook twisted FUD from BD supporters that's allowed to be posted
here. Your interpretation is your own, but that does not make it a fact.
Microsoft (MSFT) said today that it would cut the price of its Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on heading into the holiday season. The software giant is seeking to lend support to the format as Sony-backed (SNE) rival Blu-ray gains support at retail.
Microsoft said it will cut the price of the HD DVD add-on to $179 from $199. The company will also throw in five free movies during August and September.
The move comes as HD DVD seems to be losing critical ground at retail. Target (TGT) and Blockbuster (BBI) have said they will throw their weight behind the Blu-ray format, no doubt because it has the support of major studios and more high-definition movies are available for it.
But the format war isn't over yet. A critical question is whether low-cost manufacturers in Asia will offer affordable HD DVD players this holiday season. The buzz in electronics circles is that if that happens, and if a big-box retailer like Wal-Mart (WMT) or Best Buy (BBY) carries the players, it could tip the scales in the high-definition format war.
When I spoke with Sony executives last month, they acknowledged that the price of Blu-ray players was not coming down as quickly as that of HD DVD, and that player pricing poses a significant challenge to the format.
Sony says HD DVD / Blu-ray war has just begun
Randy Waynick, senior vice president of marketing in Sony’s Home Products Division, said that Sony had sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000 stand-alone Blu-ray disc players so far; that number does not include the PlayStation 3 consoles that include a Blu-ray drive.
Interesting, I think it is a matter of time before HD DVD proponents standalone player argument goes down in flames as well considering that the 100,000 number from Sony doesn't include the rest of the BDA--Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, and Panasonic. We'll see.
Interesting too, that this article comes to the same interpretation as myself--that Target is Blu-ray exclusive in-store regarding players. C'mon bitemymac, time to come clean and recognize that this is a fact. All you have to do is Google a bit to know it to be true.
the retailer emphasized that it has not chosen sides in the high-def format war.
"We are not proclaiming one format vs. the other as the preferred consumer technology, and software will continue to be available to our guests in both the Blu-ray and HD DVD format," said Target spokeswoman Brie Heath. [/b]
What part of "software" do you find difficult to understand? You bring up that quote and don't even notice what it means about hardware.
Answer me this: A consumer walks into a Target this holiday season. He sees Blu-ray players and Blu-ray discs. He also sees HD DVD discs but no players. What format do you think he's going to buy into (assuming it's not a Universal movie and Universal has not gone neutral)?
What part of "software" do you find difficult to understand? You bring up that quote and don't even notice what it means about hardware.
Answer me this: A consumer walks into a Target this holiday season. He sees Blu-ray players and Blu-ray discs. He also sees HD DVD discs but no players. What format do you think he's going to buy into (assuming it's not a Universal movie and Universal has not gone neutral)?
Shop somewhere else?... Like Walmart, Bestbuy, Circuit City, Fry's, and etc..... for $199 HD-DVD player......
I don't think $499 BD Player will be a big hit at Target, even during the Holidays.
Comments
Little more details of Samsung BD-UP5000 Duo Player,
http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...d_player/C157/
It actually has better specs than the Denon with BD Profile. Samsung seems to be profile 2.0 compliant where the Denon is only profile 1.1 complaint based on limited information available.
Based on what? It doesn't say anything about memory.
This graphic will change dynamically but it's still relevant.
Didn't I read some blather about a 2:1 advantage in sales? Not this week.
Blu-ray -Avg rank of Top 10- #134
HD DVD-Avg rank of Top 10- #171
We're still here and growing stronger.
STOP IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are RANKS for crying out loud. You don't know how many sales rank 134 relates to and you don't know how many sales rank 171 relates to.
171 to 134 could very well be 2:1 as well as 171:10 could be 1.5:1. And a rank of 171 one day doesn't mean the same amount of sales as a rank of 171 any other day.
Yes Vinea and the multiplicity of Blu-ray STB vendors combined don't more players in the market than Toshiba. Think about that...Philips, Samung, Pioneer, Sony, Panasonic all have sold such few players they haven't usurped Toshibas venerable STB lineup.[/
It's equally hard to attract new vendors to Blu-ray when your players cannot even exceed the quality of a PS3 easily at under $499.
What other big vendors than Sony, Pioneer, Samsung, Philips, Panasonic, Denon, LG, Funai, and Sharp are there?
And BDA attracted Denon and Funai while HD DVD attracted who?
And even though there is the PS3 the standalone BD players have 45% of the standalone market.
Think about that. The low price of Toshiba's low end player hasn't resulted in more than a 10% lead in standalone sales.
But that's the point I made earlier...why is $99 the magic number?
It's the first number not 3 digits?
I can see some reasons it might be, but my feeling is that people still consider HD video a premium/luxury product, so to speak. The problem is you're going after the wrong market there, a market different from what the manufacturers wanted when these formats came out. They were all about picture quality and features, not winning a price war.
The < $99 would appeal to all the folks that bought a large screen HDTV for the Super Bowl and ESPN HD. That would be...quite a few judging the talk around the office cooler. Some have units costing less than a grand from Costco. A premium/luxury product available from the super-warehouse stores.
A $99 price point might entice some consumers who would otherwise by an SD player. But then that consumer has to consider upgrading their library. Such a price conscious person is not going to make the switch. No, the people buying these products are people who want a better viewing experience and are willing to pay to get it.
Everyone already has a DVD player. The $99 price points appeals to everyone going "Huh...these DVDs suck in comparison to ESPN-HD...the HD-DVD player is only $99 and I'm gonna watch 300 on it fer sure".
Nobody in that price segment is going to replace their DVD collection (all 40 or so of them) but buy new releases.
A $99 mass market assault is likely premature at this point. Granted, players will commonly get that cheap, but by that time one format will be the defacto standard.
Or make one format become the de facto standard.
IMHO this is the only way for Toshiba to win. As poorly as the PS3 is doing as a console the millions of units makes it the current defacto HD standard just on pure volume. 180K units is NOTHING. At $99 then Toshiba can boast its first millionth sale.
Vinea
Read it again. The article does specifically say, "Target does not sell high-def DVD players in its stores, although it does sell a Toshiba player for $299 on its Web site...Target would not say why it decided to sell only Blu-ray players." Sounds like hardware exclusivity in the stores to me.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
No points for second place.
I think I'm going to keep this!
Its funny that some of us have been saying this for a while (in one way or another) about HD-DVD. but in terms of sales it has CONSISTANTLY been in second place, yet you keep feeding it "points"
I'm also going to try and take a break from arguing with you, its pointless, but fear not
The second tier, Top 25 and Top 100 aren't good for putting your finger on the pulse of HDM.
The Top 10 is all about what's hot right now!
all about whats hot right now? mm ok, shouldnt you qualify that with "as long as it supports my point of view, if not then I will use some other data as evidence" your as changeable as the weather murch, of course you would likely point out that the weather hasnt been that changeable where you are
You remind me of the two guys arguing in the bar, to emphasise a point one said "does the pope say mass?" there then followed an argument about wheather or not the pope did say mass, largely ignoring the fact that the pope is indeed catholic and would at the very least ATTEND mass. but why agree on the obvious when you can obfuscate with nebulous perplexity.
Have a nice day, and dont shop at target
What other big vendors than Sony, Pioneer, Samsung, Philips, Panasonic, Denon, LG, Funai, and Sharp are there?
And BDA attracted Denon and Funai while HD DVD attracted who?
And even though there is the PS3 the standalone BD players have 45% of the standalone market.
Think about that. The low price of Toshiba's low end player hasn't resulted in more than a 10% lead in standalone sales.
Samsung and Meridian.
True it hasn't but it's a lead nonetheless which didn't require "packing" a HD player into a game console to get players out.
It matters little to me though. I'll likely eventually replace my HD DVD player with a Universal player. I'm not caught up in the dogma so much that I would deprive myself of content. Those who want one platform...fine. But when the price is right I'll make the move. In fact many would pay a premium for a CD/DVD/HDDVD/Blu-ray/SACD/DVDA player with maybe divx support. Do that player right and it'll sell well for 800 bucks for enthusiasts.
True it hasn't but it's a lead nonetheless which didn't require "packing" a HD player into a game console to get players out.
So because of the PS3 people are buying standalones?
It matters little to me though. I'll likely eventually replace my HD DVD player with a Universal player. I'm not caught up in the dogma so much that I would deprive myself of content. Those who want one platform...fine. But when the price is right I'll make the move. In fact many would pay a premium for a CD/DVD/HDDVD/Blu-ray/SACD/DVDA player with maybe divx support. Do that player right and it'll sell well for 800 bucks for enthusiasts.
$800 is a premium for that? What is $4,000 for a CD/DVD/SACD/DVDA player then? Those are the players enthusiasts are buying.
And I can't stop chuckling when thinking of a situation where people are paying a premium to buy combos and a premium to buy Warner THDs.
True it hasn't but it's a lead nonetheless which didn't require "packing" a HD player into a game console to get players out.
Come on, Murch. You don't think that if the PS3 wasn't in the equation they wouldn't be selling a hell of a lot more standalones?
Plenty of people, myself included, bought the PS3 because it was not only one of the most affordable BD players, but also one of the best.
Quit treating us like a non-entity.
Graphs and charts.
Argue over which graphs and which charts.
Then argue over the meaning of said graphs and charts.
Rinse and repeat.
No points for second place.
Its funny that some of us have been saying this for a while (in one way or another) about HD-DVD. but in terms of sales it has CONSISTANTLY been in second place, yet you keep feeding it "points"
Good point. It's funny that he says "no points for second place" when the very chart he links to says HD DVD was, is and likely will continue to be in second place. Maybe I'll make that my sig. "NO POINTS FOR SECOND PLACE, MURCH!"
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news..._Christmas/810
In a story that swept across the web Tuesday afternoon, Target has announced plans to help promote the Blu-ray format during this year's critical holiday shopping season.
The nation's second largest retailer already sells software on both next-gen formats in its stores, along with both the Blu-ray enabled PS3 and the Xbox 360's HD DVD add-on player.
ADVERTISEMENT
'300' on
Blu-ray and HD DVD
In stores 7/31/07. Order from Amazon today and save 30% off list price:
$34.99 $23.95 $39.95 $27.95
More Blu-ray Pre-orders | More HD DVD Pre-orders
But starting in October, the retailer says it will begin stocking its first stand-alone high-def disc player -- Sony's BDP-S300 Blu-ray player, which will be displayed along with a selection Blu-ray discs at the ends of store aisles.
According to press reports, the Sony Blu-ray player will be the only stand-alone high-def disc player sold by the chain in its 1,500 physical stores. Although Sony is reportedly paying a fee for the aisle displays (called "endcaps"), the manufacturer says Target initiated discussions to carry the Blu-ray player.
Target declined to comment on the rationale behind the decision, but in a statement released to the Assiciated Press, the retailer emphasized that it has not chosen sides in the high-def format war.
"We are not proclaiming one format vs. the other as the preferred consumer technology, and software will continue to be available to our guests in both the Blu-ray and HD DVD format," said Target spokeswoman Brie Heath.
My emphasis added bitemymac. I know it is rough, but Blu-ray exclusivity for players in-store is a reality. Great news for HD DVD!
Based on what? It doesn't say anything about memory.
I have briefly looked through the specs on the denon BD player, which claims full BD profile 1.1, however the unit does not have an ethernet connection which automatically fails to comply with profile 2.0. Perhaps specs may change at the later time, but for the time being it is not, unfortunately.
The new Samsung Duo/Combo player fully complies with HD-DVD HDi interactivity including internet interactivity, which means that it should fully comply to BD profile 2.0.
Target Shoppers to See Blu This Christmas
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news..._Christmas/810
My emphasis added bitemymac. I know it is rough, but Blu-ray exclusivity for players in-store is a reality. Great news for HD DVD!
So, Sony buying Target shelf space to sell $499 Sony BD player make them exlusive to BD?
Toshiba makes Walmart exclusive HD-DVD model, HD-A2W, to sell at $199 and this makes Walmart HD-DVD exclusive by your definition of exclusivity?
Even the paragraph below your highlight says:
Target declined to comment on the rationale behind the decision, but in a statement released to the Assiciated Press, the retailer emphasized that it has not chosen sides in the high-def format war.
"We are not proclaiming one format vs. the other as the preferred consumer technology, and software will continue to be available to our guests in both the Blu-ray and HD DVD format," said Target spokeswoman Brie Heath.
I can careless about the the news, but it's just hard to overlook twisted FUD from BD supporters that's allowed to be posted
here. Your interpretation is your own, but that does not make it a fact.
http://blogs.business2.com/utilitybe...oft-fight.html
Microsoft (MSFT) said today that it would cut the price of its Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on heading into the holiday season. The software giant is seeking to lend support to the format as Sony-backed (SNE) rival Blu-ray gains support at retail.
Microsoft said it will cut the price of the HD DVD add-on to $179 from $199. The company will also throw in five free movies during August and September.
The move comes as HD DVD seems to be losing critical ground at retail. Target (TGT) and Blockbuster (BBI) have said they will throw their weight behind the Blu-ray format, no doubt because it has the support of major studios and more high-definition movies are available for it.
But the format war isn't over yet. A critical question is whether low-cost manufacturers in Asia will offer affordable HD DVD players this holiday season. The buzz in electronics circles is that if that happens, and if a big-box retailer like Wal-Mart (WMT) or Best Buy (BBY) carries the players, it could tip the scales in the high-definition format war.
When I spoke with Sony executives last month, they acknowledged that the price of Blu-ray players was not coming down as quickly as that of HD DVD, and that player pricing poses a significant challenge to the format.
Sony says HD DVD / Blu-ray war has just begun
Randy Waynick, senior vice president of marketing in Sony’s Home Products Division, said that Sony had sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000 stand-alone Blu-ray disc players so far; that number does not include the PlayStation 3 consoles that include a Blu-ray drive.
Interesting, I think it is a matter of time before HD DVD proponents standalone player argument goes down in flames as well considering that the 100,000 number from Sony doesn't include the rest of the BDA--Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, and Panasonic. We'll see.
Interesting too, that this article comes to the same interpretation as myself--that Target is Blu-ray exclusive in-store regarding players. C'mon bitemymac, time to come clean and recognize that this is a fact. All you have to do is Google a bit to know it to be true.
Retailer Target to sell only Blu-ray DVD players
the retailer emphasized that it has not chosen sides in the high-def format war.
"We are not proclaiming one format vs. the other as the preferred consumer technology, and software will continue to be available to our guests in both the Blu-ray and HD DVD format," said Target spokeswoman Brie Heath. [/b]
What part of "software" do you find difficult to understand? You bring up that quote and don't even notice what it means about hardware.
Answer me this: A consumer walks into a Target this holiday season. He sees Blu-ray players and Blu-ray discs. He also sees HD DVD discs but no players. What format do you think he's going to buy into (assuming it's not a Universal movie and Universal has not gone neutral)?
What part of "software" do you find difficult to understand? You bring up that quote and don't even notice what it means about hardware.
Answer me this: A consumer walks into a Target this holiday season. He sees Blu-ray players and Blu-ray discs. He also sees HD DVD discs but no players. What format do you think he's going to buy into (assuming it's not a Universal movie and Universal has not gone neutral)?
Shop somewhere else?... Like Walmart, Bestbuy, Circuit City, Fry's, and etc..... for $199 HD-DVD player......
I don't think $499 BD Player will be a big hit at Target, even during the Holidays.
Thanks to Cybereality for the pic