OK, that clenches it. Now that SDW2001 has come out for Blu-Ray, HD-DVD can't miss.
First, fuck off, mmmk? Second, I haven't come out for anything. I'm saying it looks like it has the early edge, and there are number of advantages it seems to hold. HD-DVD might well win, or both may succeed with universal players. Who knows.
Ps3's are sitting on shelves, floors across the country.
i dont even have to post links to stories or reports, you can easily find them if you desire to. best buy had a new years eve relaunch of ample amounts of ps3's and as of today most stores still have them available.
the Wii is selling like hottcakes in japan and are still hard to find even here in the states. go check your local store if you dont believe it.
I think you have plenty of time, it's just that you're totally wrong. Show one, just ONE major store that has them in stock (single units, not bundles). Amazon, Circuit City, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, EB...no one has them except in bundle format, and then they only have a few.
It's clear you're nothing but a Wii cheerleader. I'm glad you like it, but it's likely destined to fail. It has a proprietary format and no movie capabilities. The controller is unique but likely won't be adopted by the masses. Just watch.
Edit: Let me add to the chorus of voices saying that this thread is about Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD. It's not about console wars. I only went into that because of the PS3's Blu-Ray capability. The Wii shouldn't even enter the discussion.
Perhaps due the poor reputation of the film and its cheesy nature, I wasn't expecting much in the way of reference video from 'The Covenant.' I was quite wrong. This Blu-ray release really is fantastic, and a superior effort from Sony.
Presented in 2.35:1 widescreen and 1080p/MPEG-2 video, the presentation is flawless. Though I have no information from Sony to confirm, I suspect this is a true digital-to-digital telecine given how utterly pristine and glossy the image appears. Blacks and contrast are fantastic. Colors are skewed heavily towards blue/cyan, but fleshtones remain as accurate as could be expected given the overt stylization. Depth and detail remain excellent, and natural-hued scenes are even better, with the kind of eye-popping three-dimensional look that blew me away.
The only oddity is a scene about a third of the way through, when the Caleb character takes a drive out to a house in the country. Af first I thought a couple of shots appeared to suffer from bad video noise, until I realized it was actually raining. Oddly, it is not raining in the rest of the scene, so I'll just have to assume this is a flub. Otherwise, I'm giving 'The Covenant' a five-star video rating simply because I can't find a single thing wrong with it.
Doth my eyes decieve me!!! Did that just state we have excellent picture quality with the MPEG2 codec!! Much like Tears of the Sun, Invincible, Transporter, Transporter 2, Enemy of the State, Kingdom of Heaven, Ice Age 2, Black Hawk Down, and many, many more!
I think it is time for those claiming poor quality on Blu-ray due to MPEG2 or anything for that matter to wrap up the FUD, or their just purchased HD DVD player, and buy into the format that is continually putting out quality releases with more studio support and more industry support. Let's put the format war to an even quicker end.
As for PS3 demand, there's still the perception of lack of supply; when a promotion occurs like Futureshop [in Canada] announcing 1000 PS3s available online, they sold out in 1.5 hours [to Canadian residents only -- we've actually had better availability than most of the states].
Woot posted PS3s for one of their daily features a couple of weeks ago. Only 20GB models rather than the 60GB models most people want. Sold them for the $499 retail price plus $5 shipping. The 80 units they had were sold out within 1-2 minutes, during which their servers were hammered, and a lot of people left disappointed that night.
Doth my eyes decieve me!!! Did that just state we have excellent picture quality with the MPEG2 codec!! Much like Tears of the Sun, Invincible, Transporter, Transporter 2, Enemy of the State, Kingdom of Heaven, Ice Age 2, Black Hawk Down, and many, many more!
I think it is time for those claiming poor quality on Blu-ray due to MPEG2 or anything for that matter to wrap up the FUD, or their just purchased HD DVD player, and buy into the format that is continually putting out quality releases with more studio support and more industry support. Let's put the format war to an even quicker end.
I must admit I am impressed that Sony is getting great quality from MPEG2 and PCM on a 25GB disc. I'm anxiously awaiting the full release of titles for Jan/Feb at CES from both platforms. The new stuff seems to be coming together very nicely on both formats.
Do you actually sit close enough to your display to really notice the difference? Do you have an idea of what this viewing distance might be?
But yes, the videophiles on AVS seem to favor HD-DVD today. But they are a fickle bunch really apt to turnover equipment and technology fairly quickly for even meager gains. The "cost advantage" of HD-DVD is in the noise factor for many posters on that forum. Heck, my entire system is in the noise factor for many posters in that forum and my gear is Denon, Von Schweikert and Sharp (yea and verily I live in the cheapest sections of the forum).
Dominance this early in the game is almost meaningless.
Doth my eyes decieve me!!! Did that just state we have excellent picture quality with the MPEG2 codec!! Much like Tears of the Sun, Invincible, Transporter, Transporter 2, Enemy of the State, Kingdom of Heaven, Ice Age 2, Black Hawk Down, and many, many more!
I think it is time for those claiming poor quality on Blu-ray due to MPEG2 or anything for that matter to wrap up the FUD, or their just purchased HD DVD player, and buy into the format that is continually putting out quality releases with more studio support and more industry support. Let's put the format war to an even quicker end.
No one doubted capability of MPEG2, but MPEG2 on 25GB disc was limiting in storage which PQ was sacrified on near 2 hours long movies. Also, many had criticized Sony for using MPEG2 on even 50GB dual layer disc instead of AVC or VC-1, since it bares no benefit of 50GB capacity over VC-1 or AVC on 25/30GB capacity. Anyway, the reviewer is comparing the PQ among BD collections and we all know that it has been sub par on average. There were some BD movies like "Total Recall" originally release as MPEG2 on 25GB BD disc which was released on HD-DVD as VC-1 codec in Europe showing vast PQ improvements over the BD release. This is just one example, but if and when the initial BD releases were to be re-released on AVC or VC-1, it's more likely to see noticeable improvements over the MPEG2 versions.
Eitherway, the winner of the HiDef format would be the format that will deliver the best PQ at the cheapest cost and when the cost is nearing the cost of the SD-DVD. Well, the HDTV booming has started, so there soon be no concern about the added cost of HD display to joining in the new HD experience. Anyway, I'd have to restate that the cost will be the main driving factor for this format war, but the cost has to be $199 - $299 to be an effective hardware entry cost, but not at $399 or $499 even for BD. Most consumers would however compromise on the PQ but would not likely to compromise on the cost, and this is why the cost is the main driver. Hence, the benefit lies on the HD-DVD to win since it will get cheaper faster than the BD. There's a rumor that Toshiba will slash the price tag on the 2nd gen HD-DVD players at the CES and that would be one step closer to becoming a winner.
I think you have plenty of time, it's just that you're totally wrong. Show one, just ONE major store that has them in stock (single units, not bundles). Amazon, Circuit City, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, EB...no one has them except in bundle format, and then they only have a few.
It's clear you're nothing but a Wii cheerleader. I'm glad you like it, but it's likely destined to fail. It has a proprietary format and no movie capabilities. The controller is unique but likely won't be adopted by the masses. Just watch.
Edit: Let me add to the chorus of voices saying that this thread is about Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD. It's not about console wars. I only went into that because of the PS3's Blu-Ray capability. The Wii shouldn't even enter the discussion.
yes, clearly i'm a Wii cheerleader, welcome to the argument bud. everyone in here knows i'm pro hd-dvd/360.
i personally find the Wii to be too expensive but it doesn't deny the fact that it has COMPLETELY demolished sony's hype. the wii60 combo is for real, and it could prove too much for sony to handle.
i guess the gazzillion stories online are a big fabricated hoax, yup, ps3's are not available, its all fanboy hyperbole. get real bud, i've seeen ps3's sitting around for days.
also: the box of 360's doesn't mean anything considering microsoft doesn't have a manufacturing problem, ps3's are limited and yet they still sit there. thats a problem.
No one doubted capability of MPEG2, but MPEG2 on 25GB disc was limiting in storage which PQ was sacrified on near 2 hours long movies. Also, many had criticized Sony for using MPEG2 on even 50GB dual layer disc instead of AVC or VC-1, since it bares no benefit of 50GB capacity over VC-1 or AVC on 25/30GB capacity. Anyway, the reviewer is comparing the PQ among BD collections and we all know that it has been sub par on average. There were some BD movies like "Total Recall" originally release as MPEG2 on 25GB BD disc which was released on HD-DVD as VC-1 codec in Europe showing vast PQ improvements over the BD release. This is just one example, but if and when the initial BD releases were to be re-released on AVC or VC-1, it's more likely to see noticeable improvements over the MPEG2 versions.
Eitherway, the winner of the HiDef format would be the format that will deliver the best PQ at the cheapest cost and when the cost is nearing the cost of the SD-DVD. Well, the HDTV booming has started, so there soon be no concern about the added cost of HD display to joining in the new HD experience. Anyway, I'd have to restate that the cost will be the main driving factor for this format war, but the cost has to be $199 - $299 to be an effective hardware entry cost, but not at $399 or $499 even for BD. Most consumers would however compromise on the PQ but would not likely to compromise on the cost, and this is why the cost is the main driver. Hence, the benefit lies on the HD-DVD to win since it will get cheaper faster than the BD. There's a rumor that Toshiba will slash the price tag on the 2nd gen HD-DVD players at the CES and that would be one step closer to becoming a winner.
IMHO, the MPEG2 versus VC-1/AVC has been way overblown, I've seen plenty of 1080i MPEG2 TS (OTAB) that looked quite good. You also have to consider that at 2.35:1 (or 2.40:1) you're only using ~75% of the HDTV's pixels, consider also 3:2 pulldown from 24FPS to 60FPS, and that the VC-1/AVC codecs have the most advantage for low bitrates. I really don't see what all the codec debate is all about.
Also consider that when DVD's first came out (first 2-3 years), that those MPEG2 data streams were often subpar versus later efforts. There is definitely a certain art to codec settings, and undoubtedly some of that art must be relearned in going from SD to HD content.
Finally, IMHO Blu-Ray may have ecomonics of scale on its side, given that each PS3 has a Blu-Ray player included while XBOX 360 does not. So that even if a single PS3 never is used for HD media content, the number of Blu-Ray players (in total) sold may be significantly greater than HD-DVD players sold. Plant fab costs go down, investment costs recouped faster.
I too, am anxious to see what CES has to offer, I'd expect 2G players (and 3G later this year) and lower prices for either HD format.
yes, clearly i'm a Wii cheerleader, welcome to the argument bud. everyone in here knows i'm pro hd-dvd/360.
i personally find the Wii to be too expensive but it doesn't deny the fact that it has COMPLETELY demolished sony's hype. the wii60 combo is for real, and it could prove too much for sony to handle.
i guess the gazzillion stories online are a big fabricated hoax, yup, ps3's are not available, its all fanboy hyperbole. get real bud, i've seeen ps3's sitting around for days.
also: the box of 360's doesn't mean anything considering microsoft doesn't have a manufacturing problem, ps3's are limited and yet they still sit there. thats a problem.
You post the most unsubstantiated, ridiculous anecdotal-at-best crap. I'm trying really hard not to call you names here. But there are just so many fitting ones.
Or, look at this link. http://www.ps3preorders.com/ Only Wal-Mart and a few others have some bundles for around $1000.
Except for Wal-Mart and auctions, no one has them. I would like to know WHERE you saw these PS3's "lying around" because frankly, I think you're full of shit.
You post the most unsubstantiated, ridiculous anecdotal-at-best crap. I'm trying really hard not to call you names here. But there are just so many fitting ones.
Or, look at this link. http://www.ps3preorders.com/ Only Wal-Mart and a few others have some bundles for around $1000.
Except for Wal-Mart and auctions, no one has them. I would like to know WHERE you saw these PS3's "lying around" because frankly, I think you're full of shit.
I could have sworn that the two PS3's I saw in the local Wal-Mart (Vicksburg, MS) were just the unit itself, not bundled, but what do I know, I never had them scan it at the counter.
I could have sworn that the two PS3's I saw in the local Wal-Mart (Vicksburg, MS) were just the unit itself, not bundled, but what do I know, I never had them scan it at the counter.
I don't know...I've not heard of anyone just being able to "find" one. There might be a few units, but nothing in terms of overall stock.
I don't know...I've not heard of anyone just being able to "find" one. There might be a few units, but nothing in terms of overall stock.
i've heard of many, and i've talked to many people, and i've witnesed a few occasions of being in a store the store having a few ps3's just sitting there.
if you check the other blueray/hddvd thread you'll see i didn't believe it either when someone started saying they had ps3's at their local electronics store.
I also saw stacks of them at local BB on last Sunday Morning and that was in LA area, Simi Valley BB to be specific. I'm not sure whether it is still there, but the manager had told me they got about 30 units the night before. I had to convince myself to not go near it. Still not ready to go neutral on the format. Anyway, the PS3 isn't as scarce as the Wii. I've still yet to see one even when I'm looking to buy one.
i've heard of many, and i've talked to many people, and i've witnesed a few occasions of being in a store the store having a few ps3's just sitting there.
if you check the other blueray/hddvd thread you'll see i didn't believe it either when someone started saying they had ps3's at their local electronics store.
If it were so easy to get, there wouldn't be so many long running high-traffic forums dedicated to reporting PS3 stock before it disappears. I find it hard to believe there would be so many people looking for PS3s in such mass, if they were so readily available.
Besides, as I've said in early posts, true or not, the PS3 is outselling the only product relevant to this thread; the HD DVD add-on for the 360 by a margin of five to one. There's no reason to question the success of Blu-ray as it seems to be gaining much ground already.
Well... I'm not sure how closely you've been following the gaming console market, but Wii has been kicking PS3's butt since day one and the demand has gone up even higher. People have to wake up and smell the coffee, because PS3 isn't PS2. A simple reason is that PS2 wasn't selling at $499/$599 tag, and it doesn't matter what HiDef dvd format PS3 can play..... Basically, PS3 is too expensive as a gaming console, but a cheap BD player. What demographics of consumers can this product be matched to? Only those enthusiasts.... and they are numbered and so is PS3 sales.
So I completely prove this invalid and false. I have a PS3. I'm not an enthusiast. I bought the PS3 because:
1. It has an incredible hardware platform with proven performance.
2. It is an OPEN (for a console) system - and yes, I do have Linux installed on my PS3
3. I have had a 1080p HD display since June of 2005
4. I like the idea of Blu-Ray because:
a. Microsoft picked HD-DVD and generally hate Microsoft (even as I type this post on an XP pro laptop)
b. Rewritable drives are available today at prices similar to what I paid for a Yamaha CDR-400t back when CD-R were over $1/each (I'll likely wait before getting one - $300 is an acceptable pricepoint for the technology)
c. There is space to grow content with DL BDROMs
5. $600 is relatively meaningless to me
That said, I might get an Xbox 360 also if I can buy a cable card decoder for my media center PC and MS replaces the internal DVD drive with an internal HD-DVD drive. The 360 would be used primarily as an HD extender.
So I completely prove this invalid and false. I have a PS3. I'm not an enthusiast. I bought the PS3 because:
1. It has an incredible hardware platform with proven performance.
2. It is an OPEN (for a console) system - and yes, I do have Linux installed on my PS3
3. I have had a 1080p HD display since June of 2005
4. I like the idea of Blu-Ray because:
a. Microsoft picked HD-DVD and generally hate Microsoft (even as I type this post on an XP pro laptop)
b. Rewritable drives are available today at prices similar to what I paid for a Yamaha CDR-400t back when CD-R were over $1/each (I'll likely wait before getting one - $300 is an acceptable pricepoint for the technology)
c. There is space to grow content with DL BDROMs
5. $600 is relatively meaningless to me
That said, I might get an Xbox 360 also if I can buy a cable card decoder for my media center PC and MS replaces the internal DVD drive with an internal HD-DVD drive. The 360 would be used primarily as an HD extender.
I'm sorry, but if you're running linux on PS3, you obviously aren't a regular J6P, are you?.... you're just a hardware junkie/enthusiast. BTW, how is it running Linux on PS3?... I thought of doing something similar and having xbox360 add on to work along with it as a universal format HT console...... but I hate Sony as much as I hate M$ and I couldn't bare myself supporting both at the same time....lol. BTW, did you try running Windows on it? Few years back, there was a time that I had hoped to have PS3 running MacOS..... well...that was the rumor at time....
So I completely prove this invalid and false. I have a PS3. I'm not an enthusiast. I bought the PS3 because:
1. It has an incredible hardware platform with proven performance.
2. It is an OPEN (for a console) system - and yes, I do have Linux installed on my PS3
3. I have had a 1080p HD display since June of 2005
4. I like the idea of Blu-Ray because:
a. Microsoft picked HD-DVD and generally hate Microsoft (even as I type this post on an XP pro laptop)
b. Rewritable drives are available today at prices similar to what I paid for a Yamaha CDR-400t back when CD-R were over $1/each (I'll likely wait before getting one - $300 is an acceptable pricepoint for the technology)
c. There is space to grow content with DL BDROMs
5. $600 is relatively meaningless to me
That said, I might get an Xbox 360 also if I can buy a cable card decoder for my media center PC and MS replaces the internal DVD drive with an internal HD-DVD drive. The 360 would be used primarily as an HD extender.
Is that YDL 5.0 by any chance. Have you run any code (i. e. complied) or run any benchmarks. Of course, that would be an additional reason for me to get a PS3.
Besides, as I've said in early posts, true or not, the PS3 is outselling the only product relevant to this thread; the HD DVD add-on for the 360 by a margin of five to one. There's no reason to question the success of Blu-ray as it seems to be gaining much ground already.
But as has been pointed out in other threads, that's a pointless comparison, as clearly far from ever PS3 is being used to play Blu-Ray movies, while clearly every HD DVD 360 add-on is.
But as has been pointed out in other threads, that's a pointless comparison, as clearly far from ever PS3 is being used to play Blu-Ray movies, while clearly every HD DVD 360 add-on is.
Two points, 1) IMHO most PS3's will eventually have some Blu-Ray movies, simply because they can play Blu-Ray movies, and 2) if Blu-Ray HW players (including PS3's) outsell HD-DVD players (including the XBOX addon), then economics of scale suggest that the cost of Blu-Ray HW players will come down faster than HD-DVD players. IMHO, 2007 will see a leveling in HD player costs as the PS3's will outsell the XBOX HD-DVD addon, and if the PS3's grossly outsell the XBOX HD-DVD addon, then I'd expect lower Blu-Ray player prices WRT HD-DVD player prices. Only time will tell.
Comments
OK, that clenches it. Now that SDW2001 has come out for Blu-Ray, HD-DVD can't miss.
First, fuck off, mmmk? Second, I haven't come out for anything. I'm saying it looks like it has the early edge, and there are number of advantages it seems to hold. HD-DVD might well win, or both may succeed with universal players. Who knows.
Ps3's are sitting on shelves, floors across the country.
i dont even have to post links to stories or reports, you can easily find them if you desire to. best buy had a new years eve relaunch of ample amounts of ps3's and as of today most stores still have them available.
the Wii is selling like hottcakes in japan and are still hard to find even here in the states. go check your local store if you dont believe it.
I think you have plenty of time, it's just that you're totally wrong. Show one, just ONE major store that has them in stock (single units, not bundles). Amazon, Circuit City, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, EB...no one has them except in bundle format, and then they only have a few.
It's clear you're nothing but a Wii cheerleader. I'm glad you like it, but it's likely destined to fail. It has a proprietary format and no movie capabilities. The controller is unique but likely won't be adopted by the masses. Just watch.
Edit: Let me add to the chorus of voices saying that this thread is about Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD. It's not about console wars. I only went into that because of the PS3's Blu-Ray capability. The Wii shouldn't even enter the discussion.
I wanted to share this with you all, especially the HD DVD zealots here who claim MPEG2 is the cause of poor quality on Blu-ray...
The Covenant Gets 5-star Rating
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/covenant.html
Perhaps due the poor reputation of the film and its cheesy nature, I wasn't expecting much in the way of reference video from 'The Covenant.' I was quite wrong. This Blu-ray release really is fantastic, and a superior effort from Sony.
Presented in 2.35:1 widescreen and 1080p/MPEG-2 video, the presentation is flawless. Though I have no information from Sony to confirm, I suspect this is a true digital-to-digital telecine given how utterly pristine and glossy the image appears. Blacks and contrast are fantastic. Colors are skewed heavily towards blue/cyan, but fleshtones remain as accurate as could be expected given the overt stylization. Depth and detail remain excellent, and natural-hued scenes are even better, with the kind of eye-popping three-dimensional look that blew me away.
The only oddity is a scene about a third of the way through, when the Caleb character takes a drive out to a house in the country. Af first I thought a couple of shots appeared to suffer from bad video noise, until I realized it was actually raining. Oddly, it is not raining in the rest of the scene, so I'll just have to assume this is a flub. Otherwise, I'm giving 'The Covenant' a five-star video rating simply because I can't find a single thing wrong with it.
Doth my eyes decieve me!!!
I think it is time for those claiming poor quality on Blu-ray due to MPEG2 or anything for that matter to wrap up the FUD, or their just purchased HD DVD player, and buy into the format that is continually putting out quality releases with more studio support and more industry support. Let's put the format war to an even quicker end.
As for PS3 demand, there's still the perception of lack of supply; when a promotion occurs like Futureshop [in Canada] announcing 1000 PS3s available online, they sold out in 1.5 hours [to Canadian residents only -- we've actually had better availability than most of the states].
Woot posted PS3s for one of their daily features a couple of weeks ago. Only 20GB models rather than the 60GB models most people want. Sold them for the $499 retail price plus $5 shipping. The 80 units they had were sold out within 1-2 minutes, during which their servers were hammered, and a lot of people left disappointed that night.
Easy, easy, guys. Let's all chill out a bit, and realize the inevitable win for Blu-ray Ok.
I wanted to share this with you all, especially the HD DVD zealots here who claim MPEG2 is the cause of poor quality on Blu-ray...
The Covenant Gets 5-star Rating
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/covenant.html
Doth my eyes decieve me!!!
I think it is time for those claiming poor quality on Blu-ray due to MPEG2 or anything for that matter to wrap up the FUD, or their just purchased HD DVD player, and buy into the format that is continually putting out quality releases with more studio support and more industry support. Let's put the format war to an even quicker end.
I must admit I am impressed that Sony is getting great quality from MPEG2 and PCM on a 25GB disc. I'm anxiously awaiting the full release of titles for Jan/Feb at CES from both platforms. The new stuff seems to be coming together very nicely on both formats.
What we AV enthusiasts are keen on...
Sooo..you've bought a HD display device? No?
Do you actually sit close enough to your display to really notice the difference? Do you have an idea of what this viewing distance might be?
But yes, the videophiles on AVS seem to favor HD-DVD today. But they are a fickle bunch really apt to turnover equipment and technology fairly quickly for even meager gains. The "cost advantage" of HD-DVD is in the noise factor for many posters on that forum. Heck, my entire system is in the noise factor for many posters in that forum and my gear is Denon, Von Schweikert and Sharp (yea and verily I live in the cheapest sections of the forum).
Dominance this early in the game is almost meaningless.
Vinea
Easy, easy, guys. Let's all chill out a bit, and realize the inevitable win for Blu-ray Ok.
I wanted to share this with you all, especially the HD DVD zealots here who claim MPEG2 is the cause of poor quality on Blu-ray...
The Covenant Gets 5-star Rating
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/covenant.html
Doth my eyes decieve me!!!
I think it is time for those claiming poor quality on Blu-ray due to MPEG2 or anything for that matter to wrap up the FUD, or their just purchased HD DVD player, and buy into the format that is continually putting out quality releases with more studio support and more industry support. Let's put the format war to an even quicker end.
No one doubted capability of MPEG2, but MPEG2 on 25GB disc was limiting in storage which PQ was sacrified on near 2 hours long movies. Also, many had criticized Sony for using MPEG2 on even 50GB dual layer disc instead of AVC or VC-1, since it bares no benefit of 50GB capacity over VC-1 or AVC on 25/30GB capacity. Anyway, the reviewer is comparing the PQ among BD collections and we all know that it has been sub par on average. There were some BD movies like "Total Recall" originally release as MPEG2 on 25GB BD disc which was released on HD-DVD as VC-1 codec in Europe showing vast PQ improvements over the BD release. This is just one example, but if and when the initial BD releases were to be re-released on AVC or VC-1, it's more likely to see noticeable improvements over the MPEG2 versions.
Eitherway, the winner of the HiDef format would be the format that will deliver the best PQ at the cheapest cost and when the cost is nearing the cost of the SD-DVD. Well, the HDTV booming has started, so there soon be no concern about the added cost of HD display to joining in the new HD experience. Anyway, I'd have to restate that the cost will be the main driving factor for this format war, but the cost has to be $199 - $299 to be an effective hardware entry cost, but not at $399 or $499 even for BD. Most consumers would however compromise on the PQ but would not likely to compromise on the cost, and this is why the cost is the main driver. Hence, the benefit lies on the HD-DVD to win since it will get cheaper faster than the BD. There's a rumor that Toshiba will slash the price tag on the 2nd gen HD-DVD players at the CES and that would be one step closer to becoming a winner.
I think you have plenty of time, it's just that you're totally wrong. Show one, just ONE major store that has them in stock (single units, not bundles). Amazon, Circuit City, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, EB...no one has them except in bundle format, and then they only have a few.
It's clear you're nothing but a Wii cheerleader. I'm glad you like it, but it's likely destined to fail. It has a proprietary format and no movie capabilities. The controller is unique but likely won't be adopted by the masses. Just watch.
Edit: Let me add to the chorus of voices saying that this thread is about Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD. It's not about console wars. I only went into that because of the PS3's Blu-Ray capability. The Wii shouldn't even enter the discussion.
yes, clearly i'm a Wii cheerleader, welcome to the argument bud. everyone in here knows i'm pro hd-dvd/360.
i personally find the Wii to be too expensive but it doesn't deny the fact that it has COMPLETELY demolished sony's hype. the wii60 combo is for real, and it could prove too much for sony to handle.
i guess the gazzillion stories online are a big fabricated hoax, yup, ps3's are not available, its all fanboy hyperbole. get real bud, i've seeen ps3's sitting around for days.
also: the box of 360's doesn't mean anything considering microsoft doesn't have a manufacturing problem, ps3's are limited and yet they still sit there. thats a problem.
No one doubted capability of MPEG2, but MPEG2 on 25GB disc was limiting in storage which PQ was sacrified on near 2 hours long movies. Also, many had criticized Sony for using MPEG2 on even 50GB dual layer disc instead of AVC or VC-1, since it bares no benefit of 50GB capacity over VC-1 or AVC on 25/30GB capacity. Anyway, the reviewer is comparing the PQ among BD collections and we all know that it has been sub par on average. There were some BD movies like "Total Recall" originally release as MPEG2 on 25GB BD disc which was released on HD-DVD as VC-1 codec in Europe showing vast PQ improvements over the BD release. This is just one example, but if and when the initial BD releases were to be re-released on AVC or VC-1, it's more likely to see noticeable improvements over the MPEG2 versions.
Eitherway, the winner of the HiDef format would be the format that will deliver the best PQ at the cheapest cost and when the cost is nearing the cost of the SD-DVD. Well, the HDTV booming has started, so there soon be no concern about the added cost of HD display to joining in the new HD experience. Anyway, I'd have to restate that the cost will be the main driving factor for this format war, but the cost has to be $199 - $299 to be an effective hardware entry cost, but not at $399 or $499 even for BD. Most consumers would however compromise on the PQ but would not likely to compromise on the cost, and this is why the cost is the main driver. Hence, the benefit lies on the HD-DVD to win since it will get cheaper faster than the BD. There's a rumor that Toshiba will slash the price tag on the 2nd gen HD-DVD players at the CES and that would be one step closer to becoming a winner.
IMHO, the MPEG2 versus VC-1/AVC has been way overblown, I've seen plenty of 1080i MPEG2 TS (OTAB) that looked quite good. You also have to consider that at 2.35:1 (or 2.40:1) you're only using ~75% of the HDTV's pixels, consider also 3:2 pulldown from 24FPS to 60FPS, and that the VC-1/AVC codecs have the most advantage for low bitrates. I really don't see what all the codec debate is all about.
Also consider that when DVD's first came out (first 2-3 years), that those MPEG2 data streams were often subpar versus later efforts. There is definitely a certain art to codec settings, and undoubtedly some of that art must be relearned in going from SD to HD content.
Finally, IMHO Blu-Ray may have ecomonics of scale on its side, given that each PS3 has a Blu-Ray player included while XBOX 360 does not. So that even if a single PS3 never is used for HD media content, the number of Blu-Ray players (in total) sold may be significantly greater than HD-DVD players sold. Plant fab costs go down, investment costs recouped faster.
I too, am anxious to see what CES has to offer, I'd expect 2G players (and 3G later this year) and lower prices for either HD format.
yes, clearly i'm a Wii cheerleader, welcome to the argument bud. everyone in here knows i'm pro hd-dvd/360.
i personally find the Wii to be too expensive but it doesn't deny the fact that it has COMPLETELY demolished sony's hype. the wii60 combo is for real, and it could prove too much for sony to handle.
i guess the gazzillion stories online are a big fabricated hoax, yup, ps3's are not available, its all fanboy hyperbole. get real bud, i've seeen ps3's sitting around for days.
also: the box of 360's doesn't mean anything considering microsoft doesn't have a manufacturing problem, ps3's are limited and yet they still sit there. thats a problem.
You post the most unsubstantiated, ridiculous anecdotal-at-best crap. I'm trying really hard not to call you names here. But there are just so many fitting ones.
You want to know the PS3 stock situation? Look at this link http://ps3finder.com/
Or, look at this link. http://www.ps3preorders.com/ Only Wal-Mart and a few others have some bundles for around $1000.
Except for Wal-Mart and auctions, no one has them. I would like to know WHERE you saw these PS3's "lying around" because frankly, I think you're full of shit.
You post the most unsubstantiated, ridiculous anecdotal-at-best crap. I'm trying really hard not to call you names here. But there are just so many fitting ones.
You want to know the PS3 stock situation? Look at this link http://ps3finder.com/
Or, look at this link. http://www.ps3preorders.com/ Only Wal-Mart and a few others have some bundles for around $1000.
Except for Wal-Mart and auctions, no one has them. I would like to know WHERE you saw these PS3's "lying around" because frankly, I think you're full of shit.
I could have sworn that the two PS3's I saw in the local Wal-Mart (Vicksburg, MS) were just the unit itself, not bundled, but what do I know, I never had them scan it at the counter.
I could have sworn that the two PS3's I saw in the local Wal-Mart (Vicksburg, MS) were just the unit itself, not bundled, but what do I know, I never had them scan it at the counter.
I don't know...I've not heard of anyone just being able to "find" one. There might be a few units, but nothing in terms of overall stock.
I don't know...I've not heard of anyone just being able to "find" one. There might be a few units, but nothing in terms of overall stock.
i've heard of many, and i've talked to many people, and i've witnesed a few occasions of being in a store the store having a few ps3's just sitting there.
if you check the other blueray/hddvd thread you'll see i didn't believe it either when someone started saying they had ps3's at their local electronics store.
i've heard of many, and i've talked to many people, and i've witnesed a few occasions of being in a store the store having a few ps3's just sitting there.
if you check the other blueray/hddvd thread you'll see i didn't believe it either when someone started saying they had ps3's at their local electronics store.
If it were so easy to get, there wouldn't be so many long running high-traffic forums dedicated to reporting PS3 stock before it disappears. I find it hard to believe there would be so many people looking for PS3s in such mass, if they were so readily available.
Besides, as I've said in early posts, true or not, the PS3 is outselling the only product relevant to this thread; the HD DVD add-on for the 360 by a margin of five to one. There's no reason to question the success of Blu-ray as it seems to be gaining much ground already.
Well... I'm not sure how closely you've been following the gaming console market, but Wii has been kicking PS3's butt since day one and the demand has gone up even higher. People have to wake up and smell the coffee, because PS3 isn't PS2. A simple reason is that PS2 wasn't selling at $499/$599 tag, and it doesn't matter what HiDef dvd format PS3 can play..... Basically, PS3 is too expensive as a gaming console, but a cheap BD player. What demographics of consumers can this product be matched to? Only those enthusiasts.... and they are numbered and so is PS3 sales.
So I completely prove this invalid and false. I have a PS3. I'm not an enthusiast. I bought the PS3 because:
1. It has an incredible hardware platform with proven performance.
2. It is an OPEN (for a console) system - and yes, I do have Linux installed on my PS3
3. I have had a 1080p HD display since June of 2005
4. I like the idea of Blu-Ray because:
a. Microsoft picked HD-DVD and generally hate Microsoft (even as I type this post on an XP pro laptop)
b. Rewritable drives are available today at prices similar to what I paid for a Yamaha CDR-400t back when CD-R were over $1/each (I'll likely wait before getting one - $300 is an acceptable pricepoint for the technology)
c. There is space to grow content with DL BDROMs
5. $600 is relatively meaningless to me
That said, I might get an Xbox 360 also if I can buy a cable card decoder for my media center PC and MS replaces the internal DVD drive with an internal HD-DVD drive. The 360 would be used primarily as an HD extender.
So I completely prove this invalid and false. I have a PS3. I'm not an enthusiast. I bought the PS3 because:
1. It has an incredible hardware platform with proven performance.
2. It is an OPEN (for a console) system - and yes, I do have Linux installed on my PS3
3. I have had a 1080p HD display since June of 2005
4. I like the idea of Blu-Ray because:
a. Microsoft picked HD-DVD and generally hate Microsoft (even as I type this post on an XP pro laptop)
b. Rewritable drives are available today at prices similar to what I paid for a Yamaha CDR-400t back when CD-R were over $1/each (I'll likely wait before getting one - $300 is an acceptable pricepoint for the technology)
c. There is space to grow content with DL BDROMs
5. $600 is relatively meaningless to me
That said, I might get an Xbox 360 also if I can buy a cable card decoder for my media center PC and MS replaces the internal DVD drive with an internal HD-DVD drive. The 360 would be used primarily as an HD extender.
I'm sorry, but if you're running linux on PS3, you obviously aren't a regular J6P, are you?.... you're just a hardware junkie/enthusiast. BTW, how is it running Linux on PS3?... I thought of doing something similar and having xbox360 add on to work along with it as a universal format HT console...... but I hate Sony as much as I hate M$ and I couldn't bare myself supporting both at the same time....lol. BTW, did you try running Windows on it? Few years back, there was a time that I had hoped to have PS3 running MacOS..... well...that was the rumor at time....
So I completely prove this invalid and false. I have a PS3. I'm not an enthusiast. I bought the PS3 because:
1. It has an incredible hardware platform with proven performance.
2. It is an OPEN (for a console) system - and yes, I do have Linux installed on my PS3
3. I have had a 1080p HD display since June of 2005
4. I like the idea of Blu-Ray because:
a. Microsoft picked HD-DVD and generally hate Microsoft (even as I type this post on an XP pro laptop)
b. Rewritable drives are available today at prices similar to what I paid for a Yamaha CDR-400t back when CD-R were over $1/each (I'll likely wait before getting one - $300 is an acceptable pricepoint for the technology)
c. There is space to grow content with DL BDROMs
5. $600 is relatively meaningless to me
That said, I might get an Xbox 360 also if I can buy a cable card decoder for my media center PC and MS replaces the internal DVD drive with an internal HD-DVD drive. The 360 would be used primarily as an HD extender.
Is that YDL 5.0 by any chance. Have you run any code (i. e. complied) or run any benchmarks. Of course, that would be an additional reason for me to get a PS3.
Besides, as I've said in early posts, true or not, the PS3 is outselling the only product relevant to this thread; the HD DVD add-on for the 360 by a margin of five to one. There's no reason to question the success of Blu-ray as it seems to be gaining much ground already.
But as has been pointed out in other threads, that's a pointless comparison, as clearly far from ever PS3 is being used to play Blu-Ray movies, while clearly every HD DVD 360 add-on is.
But as has been pointed out in other threads, that's a pointless comparison, as clearly far from ever PS3 is being used to play Blu-Ray movies, while clearly every HD DVD 360 add-on is.
Two points, 1) IMHO most PS3's will eventually have some Blu-Ray movies, simply because they can play Blu-Ray movies, and 2) if Blu-Ray HW players (including PS3's) outsell HD-DVD players (including the XBOX addon), then economics of scale suggest that the cost of Blu-Ray HW players will come down faster than HD-DVD players. IMHO, 2007 will see a leveling in HD player costs as the PS3's will outsell the XBOX HD-DVD addon, and if the PS3's grossly outsell the XBOX HD-DVD addon, then I'd expect lower Blu-Ray player prices WRT HD-DVD player prices. Only time will tell.