I checked that tracking site and I frankly don't find it credible. It lists like 6 stores with it in stock. I will bet real money that it's the bundled version.
Please.... once and for all..... PS3 is readilly available. You don't need to bet anything here... I'll save you the trouble and give you a link where you can buy one now.
Are you sure your concerns about the "vulnerability" of the data are actually an issue? That sounds pretty theoretical to me. I'm asking because I really don't know.
I think the whole hardcoat scratching issue argument against Blu-Ray is pretty bogus, IMHO. In fact that would be an inherent advantage given that DVD's typically have a mean rental cylce of 10-15 (on average, see wiki) before they become unplayable. You could get all boogity boogity boo about the 0.1mm (0.004") hardcoat, but think about the size (i. e. depth) of scratches on DVD's, they are typically one to two orders of magnitude less than the aforementioned hardcoat thickness. Try searching for user data/complaints on scratched unplayable Blu-Ray in the MSM, on the Blu-Ray.com forums, etcetera, I have yet to find any widespread issues with said hardcoat and playability issues. If anyone has seen such data please provide some links.
And since HD-DVD's use the exact same PC as standard DVD's, which format do you think will have a higher failure rate due to 100 micron size deep scratches? Once you get a scratch deeper than the hardcoat thickness, regardless of format, the disk will be unplayable. And since it takes much more pressure to penetrate Blu-Ray's hardcoat than DVD's PC, which do you think will last longer in "normal" (i. e. rugrat) usage?
BD has more capacity. I don't think that automatically makes it "better" technology. Is there anything else you think is better about BD besides potential capacity?
Even with its special protective spin coat, the vulnerability of the shallow data layer of a BD bothers me. Apart from a BD disc becoming permanently damaged, BD playback is more susceptible to failure due to dust, fingerprints, vibration, and disc warpage. I appreciate the more conservative, more forgiving engineering of HD DVD, which also better leverages the capabilities of existing DVD pressing facilities.
Incorrect. It is HD DVD discs that incorporate the SAME exact protection of DVDs to HD DVD when there is that much more data to damage. DVD disc protection is certainly NOT forgiving. On the contrary to your earlier statement, BD is better at protecting your disc from dust, fingerprints, and scratches...
Although not all BD discs have Durabis, most movies incorporate some sort of Durabis equivalent.
So yeah, I would consider durability yet another advantage of Blu-ray on the tech side along with capacity, copyright protection, and throughput. All in all, it is well known that BD has the better tech.
Yes, but it was still widely available for 9 months longer than the PS3.
Stating that the 360 has more titles than the PS3 is no way to back up an argument.
huh? what are you talking? how does that have anything to do with what i posted?
SDW- you're the one looking like a fanboy. people are posting you articles, and links to places that HAVE THEM IN FOR ONLINE ORDER. you can walk into my best buy right now and pick yourself up a ps3, and i dont live in a some remote town, try west palm beach, fl. is it because supply can meet the demand ? who knows for sure, but if you go by word of mouth (which is a pretty strong indicator for this industry) you'll see poor showing for the ps3.
also, stop with your pathetic attempt at calling me a wiiboy, i dont even like the damn console. the only console i own and prob will own is a 360, but it doesn't mean i cant recognize the positive launch nintendo has had
huh? what are you talking? how does that have anything to do with what i posted?
SDW- you're the one looking like a fanboy. people are posting you articles, and links to places that HAVE THEM IN FOR ONLINE ORDER. you can walk into my best buy right now and pick yourself up a ps3, and i dont live in a some remote town, try west palm beach, fl. is it because supply can meet the demand ? who knows for sure, but if you go by word of mouth (which is a pretty strong indicator for this industry) you'll see poor showing for the ps3.
also, stop with your pathetic attempt at calling me a wiiboy, i dont even like the damn console. the only console i own and prob will own is a 360, but it doesn't mean i cant recognize the positive launch nintendo has had
Not to belabor the point, but this problem falls more appropriately within queueing theory, where all we know anecdotally, is the length of the queue (i. e. in storage/on the shelf). We don't know the queue's throughput, (i. e. we don't know what's going into/out of the queue). We also know that this is the post-holiday buying season (arguably a low point in consumer purchases), and that the PS3 has the highest price point of the three consoles, with the Wii being the lowest, I would also assume that per title cost is higher for the PS3 than the Wii (but please correct me if I'm wrong).
I don't think we can, at this time, judge the relative success of the 3 consoles, until we are out of this buying lull, or we see some hard data, perhaps by the end of this quarter, you all can declare a winner in the console wars!
not sure how valid this article is, but it makes sense for Sony to react in such way to save itself, and doomed on BD?..
To me, only thing it's helping with PS3 sales right now is the BD capability, since many of the HT folks have their eye on it as a cheapest BD player on the market. Maybe, Sony sees that and have been indentified as a bigger threat on Sony's balance sheet than they had realized? If 200K to 300K units are being used as BD player out of 2 to 3 million PS3 units, it's not that significant...but 200K to 300K units out of 800K total units is a big chunk and a bad news for Sony.
GadgetNutz's storybreaking reporter, The Bandito, has uncovered a developing story concerning Sony via his network of industry insiders.
On the heels of various industry reports of the lackluster sales of Sony's new Playstation 3 console up to, during, and through the Christmas season, it's no wonder that Sony feels internal pressure to reverse it's course to more profitable waters. Obviously, the number one deficit of the new electronic entertainment device is the sheer number of newly introduced technologies, each with it's own seemingly continuous chain of production pitfalls. This same collection of newly deployed technologies directly impacts the pricing, further straining the retail sales of the Playstation 3. Considering that HDDVD technology is moving towards a broader market of consumers, Blu Ray is taking a considerable hit regardless of the Playstation branding.
One doesn't have to pay close attenion, or even take a second glance, to see that Sony, as a large corporation, has dropped the ball in it's own court. It has been reported time and time again that Sony has been facing financial difficulties, having to lay off workers, close plants, and refocus parts of their business. What only a few expected, Playstation 3 sales failed to match even the reduced supply during this holiday season. The affect of this has rippled through the major electronics retailers, creating a need to ship stock from store to store, and further impacting what profit margins retailers expected to see from the launch of a major new platform. The slick new Nintendo Wii and the powerhouse Microsoft XBox 360 managed to dominate the market, taking full advantage of the price differential, supply problems, and even the imagination of the consumer market. The season, in reality, isn't even over, and there is already a new captain at the helm, an almost unprecedented event indicating changes to come.
At a cost of over two hundred dollars per drive, the Blu Ray is the force behind the massive cost of the Sony Playstation 3. It is speculated that Sony is bleeding some three hundred bucks per unit, and continues the wild trend of manufacturers losing cash on the console in expectations to get their money back on the software. However, with a scant dozen titles or so, Sony holds little hope of a quick turn around in their fortunes. From it's core, the powerful Cell processor,with it's poor production yields, has added pitfalls to it's on rollout that is compounded by the difficulty in mass producing the Blu Ray in the Playstation 3. The tremendous cost of product, let alone support and delivery costs, may have been a factor in the recent executive level staff changes, but that change (of executives) has pushed the importance of other changes up the ladder of importance.
Sony is rumored to be making drastic changes to recapture the market before losing even more of it's command share to the likes of Nintendo (the success story of the holiday season) or the XBox 360 (still suffering in the land of the rising sun, but gaining momentum everywhere else). In a move that is "aimed at family pricing," Sony is rumored to be working on a Playstation 3 that does not include the Blu Ray drive. Whether this will result in the current low-end model having a change, or a newer "entry level" Playstation 3, remains to be seen. However, this is in stark contrast to their previous, egocentric, statements regarding "what kind of consumer"* will be looking at the Playstation 3.
To further fuel the fire, Toshiba has been reported to be getting ready to announce at CES (The Consumer Electronics Show) a new HDDVD player in the sub-two hundred dollar range. If these reports hold to be true, Sony's Blu Ray hopes may be dashed in even more markets than just that of the video-game arena. The steep pricing of Blu Ray players already make the Playstation 3 the entry level model, and Toshiba may have just put the nail in the coffin of this format. This holiday season was Sony's chance to leap ahead of the HDDVD format, establishing Blu Ray in the consumer market.
Supply problems alone would have likely created problems with Sony's hopes about Blu Ray, but with lackluster sales it is nearly a forgone conclusion. This puts Sony in a terrible position of not only trying to turn their ship around, but if they aren't careful--it could very well sink. A Playstation 3 without Blu Ray technology may save the Playstation from the fate previously seen by Sega's Saturn, but it will be the death nail in the Blu Ray coffin.
it would make no sense for Sony to release a Blu-Ray free PS3? how would you play the games? they would still have to include an HD if they wanted to get sales from the sony online games, so while they MIGHT save some money they would also be denying themselves revenue from BD bames... makes no sense
They HAVE to stick it out no matter what.
if the consoles are as numerous in stores as reports are saying then they need to launch in europe ASAP to gain some more Hardware sales.
How do those publications have anything to do with current PS3 stock? Go check Wal-Mart and Target and Amazon and Circuit City and Best Buy and you'll see what I'm talking about. As of now, there is very little stock out there. When a shipment comes in, its gone in short order.
You made a highly dubious claim that you can't back up. You made it because you go to bed and pray every night that the PS3 fails and the Wii succeeds. I've personally got better things to do with my time, but whatever floats your boat.
I know you're not responding to me in this post, but I believe it's relevant to repost that my local WalMart has had two on the shelf for 8 days now. I still haven't been able to lay eyes on a Wii.
I have no doubt that PS3s are hard to come by in bigger cities, but here in my chunk of small town America it's not a problem. It was with the PS2 and 360 and is with the Wii however.
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Just don't come in here and start making stupid and outrageous claims and then tell others they're wrong.
huh? what are you talking? how does that have anything to do with what i posted?
SDW- you're the one looking like a fanboy. people are posting you articles, and links to places that HAVE THEM IN FOR ONLINE ORDER. you can walk into my best buy right now and pick yourself up a ps3, and i dont live in a some remote town, try west palm beach, fl. is it because supply can meet the demand ? who knows for sure, but if you go by word of mouth (which is a pretty strong indicator for this industry) you'll see poor showing for the ps3.
also, stop with your pathetic attempt at calling me a wiiboy, i dont even like the damn console. the only console i own and prob will own is a 360, but it doesn't mean i cant recognize the positive launch nintendo has had
OK, one...you CANNOT walk into Best Buy and get one. It says "not available for in-store pickup." So that says NOTHING about stock.
Two, I posted several links that you promptly IGNORED. I'll tell you again: Go to Walmart.com, Target.com, Amazon.com, CircuitCity.com, etc. Tell me how many are just "sitting around" not bundled.
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yes, clearly i'm a Wii cheerleader, welcome to the argument bud. everyone in here knows i'm pro hd-dvd/360.
You certainly sound like a Wii cheerleader, I'll tell you that.
I know you're not responding to me in this post, but I believe it's relevant to repost that my local WalMart has had two on the shelf for 8 days now. I still haven't been able to lay eyes on a Wii.
I have no doubt that PS3s are hard to come by in bigger cities, but here in my chunk of small town America it's not a problem. It was with the PS2 and 360 and is with the Wii however.
OK, that's a good example and I appreciate it. Elixir hasn't offered anything like that though. I live in suburban Philadelphia, so clearly it's different. Are you sure you saw single units?
Beyond that stupid console bickering, we should get back to the topic at hand.
here here!
Quote:
Reasons HD-DVD Could "Win."
1. The "HD-DVD" name (I think that's big for consumers)
2. Potentially better durability
3. Lower player prices
4. Manufacturers can use existing facilities for pressing.
Reasons Blu-Ray Could "Win."
1. Better capacity
2. PS3 native Blu-Ray installed base
3. Larger consortium of support, inlcuding content providers
4. Mind share is arguably higher than HD-DVD at present
Others?
Lurking in these threads I've gotten a bit confused.. (imagine that) Can BluRay players play DVD or not? Or is it an option that the manufacturer decides whether or not to include? I think I've heard/read it both ways. If not then there's a pretty big "could win" for HD.
When I go HD I'll start buying HD, but there are plenty of my current titles that aren't worth re-buying, especially if my new player is any good at upscaling.
Are you sure your concerns about the "vulnerability" of the data are actually an issue? That sounds pretty theoretical to me. I'm asking because I really don't know.
I've googled for hard data on field-use error rates, but haven't found anything yet, so this is largely a theoretical argument, but I think the reasons for concern are sound. Here's a reasonably good description of the two technologies from Sound and Vision Magazine, albeit from May 2005:
What I get from reading the above article is that the way the Blu-Ray laser has to focus on data so very close to the disc surface is that it's much harder for the laser to "see around" small scratches and surface contamination than is the case for HD-DVD. Even if the hard coat helps prevent scratches, and perhaps is somewhat resistant to dust and dirt, it's not like all dust and dirt will be magically repelled by this coating.
One thing that's got me a little confused is that I've heard some people say that not all Blu-Ray discs are being hard coated. Is this true? If so, and there's no protective cartridge for the discs as had been considered at one time, that sounds positively disastrous.
Two, I posted several links that you promptly IGNORED. I'll tell you again: Go to Walmart.com, Target.com, Amazon.com, CircuitCity.com, etc. Tell me how many are just "sitting around" not bundled.
Actually, Amazon.com had 20gb models up for order a good portion of yesterday. Sold out by this morning, but they were there.
Can BluRay players play DVD or not? Or is it an option that the manufacturer decides whether or not to include? I think I've heard/read it both ways. If not then there's a pretty big "could win" for HD.
As far as I know, all of the current Blu-Ray players play standard DVDs, it's just more of a challenge (and hence probably more expensive) to build the optics to handle both formats. Both HD DVD and standard DVD have a data layer which is 0.6 mm below the disc surface. Blu-Ray's data layer is only 0.1 mm below the disc surface. It's trickier to build optics which will focus as close as 0.1 mm, then switch to 0.6 mm for standard DVDs and 1.2 mm for CDs.
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When I go HD I'll start buying HD, but there are plenty of my current titles that aren't worth re-buying, especially if my new player is any good at upscaling.
My Toshiba A2 does a pretty good job of upscaling standard DVD, but as impressive as it is to get such a good picture from a regular DVD, HD DVD still looks a lot better. I've got a 70" 1920x1080 TV, however -- the difference might not seem so great on smaller displays.
Backward compatibility: Blu-ray is fully backward compatible in that it can play Blu-ray discs, DVDs, AND CDs. I've yet to see anything "too challenging" about Blu-ray optics as most of the players have full backward compatiblility except for two which decided that CD playback wasn't important for some reason--the Sony and the Pionner standalones. Otherwise, the PS3, the Philips, the Samsung, and the Panasonic all play CDs and are fully backward compatible.
Blu-ray Hardcoat/Durability: The hardcoat is used on all Blu-ray discs. Nothing to worry about here, the hardcoat is part of the Blu-ray spec....
DURABIS protects the disc surface against scratches and resists smudges from fingerprints, providing error-free Blu-ray Disc performance. Hard coating technology pioneered by TDK is part of the Blu-ray specification, but only TDK has DURABIS, the most advanced hard coating formulation for Blu-ray Disc media.
In addition, if one knows that HD DVD incorporates existing DVD protection and this holds to be true...
In comparison to conventional DVD media, discs incorporating DURABIS technology boast approximately 100 times greater scratch resistance.
A reasonable individual can conclude that the durability is indeed in Blu-ray's favor.
So, in summation, Blu-ray IS backward compatible and boasts better durability--along with the other superiorities in tech specs such as capacity and throughput.
Beyond that stupid console bickering, we should get back to the topic at hand.
Agreed.
Quote:
Reasons HD-DVD Could "Win."
1. The "HD-DVD" name (I think that's big for consumers)
2. Potentially better durability
3. Lower player prices
4. Manufacturers can use existing facilities for pressing.
I can see some logic in #1, however SACD and other formats adding letters did nothing in terms of extending the success of a name. Plus, IMO, Blu-ray not only sounds cooler, but also rolls off the tongue a lot easier than H-D-D-V-D.
#2 doesn't hold any potential IMO. Clearly, Blu-ray has the better durability.
#3 isn't quite true either. You can get a Blu-ray player at $499 and an HD DVD player. Price is the same.
#4 makes no difference as the price to the consumer for discs is the SAME as well.
Quote:
Reasons Blu-Ray Could "Win."
1. Better capacity
2. PS3 native Blu-Ray installed base
3. Larger consortium of support, inlcuding content providers
4. Mind share is arguably higher than HD-DVD at present
Others?
I would go ahead and add better durability, and equal pricing (for both players and discs) to the Blu-ray list. Obviously, Blu-ray has the most going for it, it is just a matter of getting their other players down in price and out in mass.
I've googled for hard data on field-use error rates, but haven't found anything yet, so this is largely a theoretical argument, but I think the reasons for concern are sound. Here's a reasonably good description of the two technologies from Sound and Vision Magazine, albeit from May 2005:
What I get from reading the above article is that the way the Blu-Ray laser has to focus on data so very close to the disc surface is that it's much harder for the laser to "see around" small scratches and surface contamination than is the case for HD-DVD. Even if the hard coat helps prevent scratches, and perhaps is somewhat resistant to dust and dirt, it's not like all dust and dirt will be magically repelled by this coating.
One thing that's got me a little confused is that I've heard some people say that not all Blu-Ray discs are being hard coated. Is this true? If so, and there's no protective cartridge for the discs as had been considered at one time, that sounds positively disastrous.
Here is the part I find relevant:
Quote:
Bringing the data layer closer to the disc surface also increases Blu-ray's sensitivit y to surface defects like scratches, dust, and fingerprints. With CDs, DVDs, and HD DVDs, the defects are out of focus by the time the laser spot hits the data layer inside the disc, minimizing interference. The first Blu-ray prototype discs had disc cartridges to guard against surface contamination, but recent prototypes have had a ?hard-coat? layer (which TDK uses on some of its recordable DVDs) that reduces data-corrupting disc damage. Nonetheless, for reliable operation, it'll probably be important to keep BDs as clean and scratch-free as possible (not a bad idea for any optical format).
It seems like the author is reaching there, speculating about durability. No?
Ever wonder why Microsoft hasn't released an HDMI cable for the Xbox 360, or whether the AV port was really capable of digital out? Well, here's your answer: we landed pictures of what appears to be the second Xbox 360 -- the Xbox 360 v2, if you will -- codenamed Zephyr. (The original Xbox 360, if you recall, was codenamed Xenon.) The long rumored about and awaited update to the console won't just feature a new, cooler 65nm processor, it's also finally added an HDMI port for full digital 1080p pleasure, as well as a 120GB drive, just what the doctor ordered.
Comments
I checked that tracking site and I frankly don't find it credible. It lists like 6 stores with it in stock. I will bet real money that it's the bundled version.
Please.... once and for all..... PS3 is readilly available. You don't need to bet anything here... I'll save you the trouble and give you a link where you can buy one now.
No bunndle:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....prd65900050007
Bundles:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....prd65900050000
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....prd65900050006
It was also available from amazon, both 20GB & 60GB.
I'm sure other retails and other online shops will have them as well. Only thing scarce is the Wii.
Are you sure your concerns about the "vulnerability" of the data are actually an issue? That sounds pretty theoretical to me. I'm asking because I really don't know.
I think the whole hardcoat scratching issue argument against Blu-Ray is pretty bogus, IMHO. In fact that would be an inherent advantage given that DVD's typically have a mean rental cylce of 10-15 (on average, see wiki) before they become unplayable. You could get all boogity boogity boo about the 0.1mm (0.004") hardcoat, but think about the size (i. e. depth) of scratches on DVD's, they are typically one to two orders of magnitude less than the aforementioned hardcoat thickness. Try searching for user data/complaints on scratched unplayable Blu-Ray in the MSM, on the Blu-Ray.com forums, etcetera, I have yet to find any widespread issues with said hardcoat and playability issues. If anyone has seen such data please provide some links.
And since HD-DVD's use the exact same PC as standard DVD's, which format do you think will have a higher failure rate due to 100 micron size deep scratches? Once you get a scratch deeper than the hardcoat thickness, regardless of format, the disk will be unplayable. And since it takes much more pressure to penetrate Blu-Ray's hardcoat than DVD's PC, which do you think will last longer in "normal" (i. e. rugrat) usage?
BD has more capacity. I don't think that automatically makes it "better" technology. Is there anything else you think is better about BD besides potential capacity?
Even with its special protective spin coat, the vulnerability of the shallow data layer of a BD bothers me. Apart from a BD disc becoming permanently damaged, BD playback is more susceptible to failure due to dust, fingerprints, vibration, and disc warpage. I appreciate the more conservative, more forgiving engineering of HD DVD, which also better leverages the capabilities of existing DVD pressing facilities.
Incorrect. It is HD DVD discs that incorporate the SAME exact protection of DVDs to HD DVD when there is that much more data to damage. DVD disc protection is certainly NOT forgiving. On the contrary to your earlier statement, BD is better at protecting your disc from dust, fingerprints, and scratches...
http://www.durabis.com/en/tec00100.htm
Although not all BD discs have Durabis, most movies incorporate some sort of Durabis equivalent.
So yeah, I would consider durability yet another advantage of Blu-ray on the tech side along with capacity, copyright protection, and throughput. All in all, it is well known that BD has the better tech.
Yes, but it was still widely available for 9 months longer than the PS3.
Stating that the 360 has more titles than the PS3 is no way to back up an argument.
huh? what are you talking? how does that have anything to do with what i posted?
SDW- you're the one looking like a fanboy. people are posting you articles, and links to places that HAVE THEM IN FOR ONLINE ORDER. you can walk into my best buy right now and pick yourself up a ps3, and i dont live in a some remote town, try west palm beach, fl. is it because supply can meet the demand ? who knows for sure, but if you go by word of mouth (which is a pretty strong indicator for this industry) you'll see poor showing for the ps3.
also, stop with your pathetic attempt at calling me a wiiboy, i dont even like the damn console. the only console i own and prob will own is a 360, but it doesn't mean i cant recognize the positive launch nintendo has had
huh? what are you talking? how does that have anything to do with what i posted?
SDW- you're the one looking like a fanboy. people are posting you articles, and links to places that HAVE THEM IN FOR ONLINE ORDER. you can walk into my best buy right now and pick yourself up a ps3, and i dont live in a some remote town, try west palm beach, fl. is it because supply can meet the demand ? who knows for sure, but if you go by word of mouth (which is a pretty strong indicator for this industry) you'll see poor showing for the ps3.
also, stop with your pathetic attempt at calling me a wiiboy, i dont even like the damn console. the only console i own and prob will own is a 360, but it doesn't mean i cant recognize the positive launch nintendo has had
Not to belabor the point, but this problem falls more appropriately within queueing theory, where all we know anecdotally, is the length of the queue (i. e. in storage/on the shelf). We don't know the queue's throughput, (i. e. we don't know what's going into/out of the queue). We also know that this is the post-holiday buying season (arguably a low point in consumer purchases), and that the PS3 has the highest price point of the three consoles, with the Wii being the lowest, I would also assume that per title cost is higher for the PS3 than the Wii (but please correct me if I'm wrong).
I don't think we can, at this time, judge the relative success of the 3 consoles, until we are out of this buying lull, or we see some hard data, perhaps by the end of this quarter, you all can declare a winner in the console wars!
To me, only thing it's helping with PS3 sales right now is the BD capability, since many of the HT folks have their eye on it as a cheapest BD player on the market. Maybe, Sony sees that and have been indentified as a bigger threat on Sony's balance sheet than they had realized? If 200K to 300K units are being used as BD player out of 2 to 3 million PS3 units, it's not that significant...but 200K to 300K units out of 800K total units is a big chunk and a bad news for Sony.
What do you guys think?..
http://www.gadgetnutz.com/modules/ne...?storyid=00264
GadgetNutz's storybreaking reporter, The Bandito, has uncovered a developing story concerning Sony via his network of industry insiders.
On the heels of various industry reports of the lackluster sales of Sony's new Playstation 3 console up to, during, and through the Christmas season, it's no wonder that Sony feels internal pressure to reverse it's course to more profitable waters. Obviously, the number one deficit of the new electronic entertainment device is the sheer number of newly introduced technologies, each with it's own seemingly continuous chain of production pitfalls. This same collection of newly deployed technologies directly impacts the pricing, further straining the retail sales of the Playstation 3. Considering that HDDVD technology is moving towards a broader market of consumers, Blu Ray is taking a considerable hit regardless of the Playstation branding.
One doesn't have to pay close attenion, or even take a second glance, to see that Sony, as a large corporation, has dropped the ball in it's own court. It has been reported time and time again that Sony has been facing financial difficulties, having to lay off workers, close plants, and refocus parts of their business. What only a few expected, Playstation 3 sales failed to match even the reduced supply during this holiday season. The affect of this has rippled through the major electronics retailers, creating a need to ship stock from store to store, and further impacting what profit margins retailers expected to see from the launch of a major new platform. The slick new Nintendo Wii and the powerhouse Microsoft XBox 360 managed to dominate the market, taking full advantage of the price differential, supply problems, and even the imagination of the consumer market. The season, in reality, isn't even over, and there is already a new captain at the helm, an almost unprecedented event indicating changes to come.
At a cost of over two hundred dollars per drive, the Blu Ray is the force behind the massive cost of the Sony Playstation 3. It is speculated that Sony is bleeding some three hundred bucks per unit, and continues the wild trend of manufacturers losing cash on the console in expectations to get their money back on the software. However, with a scant dozen titles or so, Sony holds little hope of a quick turn around in their fortunes. From it's core, the powerful Cell processor,with it's poor production yields, has added pitfalls to it's on rollout that is compounded by the difficulty in mass producing the Blu Ray in the Playstation 3. The tremendous cost of product, let alone support and delivery costs, may have been a factor in the recent executive level staff changes, but that change (of executives) has pushed the importance of other changes up the ladder of importance.
Sony is rumored to be making drastic changes to recapture the market before losing even more of it's command share to the likes of Nintendo (the success story of the holiday season) or the XBox 360 (still suffering in the land of the rising sun, but gaining momentum everywhere else). In a move that is "aimed at family pricing," Sony is rumored to be working on a Playstation 3 that does not include the Blu Ray drive. Whether this will result in the current low-end model having a change, or a newer "entry level" Playstation 3, remains to be seen. However, this is in stark contrast to their previous, egocentric, statements regarding "what kind of consumer"* will be looking at the Playstation 3.
To further fuel the fire, Toshiba has been reported to be getting ready to announce at CES (The Consumer Electronics Show) a new HDDVD player in the sub-two hundred dollar range. If these reports hold to be true, Sony's Blu Ray hopes may be dashed in even more markets than just that of the video-game arena. The steep pricing of Blu Ray players already make the Playstation 3 the entry level model, and Toshiba may have just put the nail in the coffin of this format. This holiday season was Sony's chance to leap ahead of the HDDVD format, establishing Blu Ray in the consumer market.
Supply problems alone would have likely created problems with Sony's hopes about Blu Ray, but with lackluster sales it is nearly a forgone conclusion. This puts Sony in a terrible position of not only trying to turn their ship around, but if they aren't careful--it could very well sink. A Playstation 3 without Blu Ray technology may save the Playstation from the fate previously seen by Sega's Saturn, but it will be the death nail in the Blu Ray coffin.
i'll pull out a pen, piece of paper, and start backtracking the older thread for some names
but we'll see
They HAVE to stick it out no matter what.
if the consoles are as numerous in stores as reports are saying then they need to launch in europe ASAP to gain some more Hardware sales.
How do those publications have anything to do with current PS3 stock? Go check Wal-Mart and Target and Amazon and Circuit City and Best Buy and you'll see what I'm talking about. As of now, there is very little stock out there. When a shipment comes in, its gone in short order.
You made a highly dubious claim that you can't back up. You made it because you go to bed and pray every night that the PS3 fails and the Wii succeeds. I've personally got better things to do with my time, but whatever floats your boat.
I know you're not responding to me in this post, but I believe it's relevant to repost that my local WalMart has had two on the shelf for 8 days now. I still haven't been able to lay eyes on a Wii.
I have no doubt that PS3s are hard to come by in bigger cities, but here in my chunk of small town America it's not a problem. It was with the PS2 and 360 and is with the Wii however.
Just don't come in here and start making stupid and outrageous claims and then tell others they're wrong.
huh? what are you talking? how does that have anything to do with what i posted?
SDW- you're the one looking like a fanboy. people are posting you articles, and links to places that HAVE THEM IN FOR ONLINE ORDER. you can walk into my best buy right now and pick yourself up a ps3, and i dont live in a some remote town, try west palm beach, fl. is it because supply can meet the demand ? who knows for sure, but if you go by word of mouth (which is a pretty strong indicator for this industry) you'll see poor showing for the ps3.
also, stop with your pathetic attempt at calling me a wiiboy, i dont even like the damn console. the only console i own and prob will own is a 360, but it doesn't mean i cant recognize the positive launch nintendo has had
OK, one...you CANNOT walk into Best Buy and get one. It says "not available for in-store pickup." So that says NOTHING about stock.
Two, I posted several links that you promptly IGNORED. I'll tell you again: Go to Walmart.com, Target.com, Amazon.com, CircuitCity.com, etc. Tell me how many are just "sitting around" not bundled.
yes, clearly i'm a Wii cheerleader, welcome to the argument bud. everyone in here knows i'm pro hd-dvd/360.
You certainly sound like a Wii cheerleader, I'll tell you that.
I know you're not responding to me in this post, but I believe it's relevant to repost that my local WalMart has had two on the shelf for 8 days now. I still haven't been able to lay eyes on a Wii.
I have no doubt that PS3s are hard to come by in bigger cities, but here in my chunk of small town America it's not a problem. It was with the PS2 and 360 and is with the Wii however.
OK, that's a good example and I appreciate it. Elixir hasn't offered anything like that though. I live in suburban Philadelphia, so clearly it's different. Are you sure you saw single units?
Reasons HD-DVD Could "Win."
1. The "HD-DVD" name (I think that's big for consumers)
2. Potentially better durability
3. Lower player prices
4. Manufacturers can use existing facilities for pressing.
Reasons Blu-Ray Could "Win."
1. Better capacity
2. PS3 native Blu-Ray installed base
3. Larger consortium of support, inlcuding content providers
4. Mind share is arguably higher than HD-DVD at present
Others?
Beyond that stupid console bickering, we should get back to the topic at hand.
here here!
Reasons HD-DVD Could "Win."
1. The "HD-DVD" name (I think that's big for consumers)
2. Potentially better durability
3. Lower player prices
4. Manufacturers can use existing facilities for pressing.
Reasons Blu-Ray Could "Win."
1. Better capacity
2. PS3 native Blu-Ray installed base
3. Larger consortium of support, inlcuding content providers
4. Mind share is arguably higher than HD-DVD at present
Others?
Lurking in these threads I've gotten a bit confused.. (imagine that) Can BluRay players play DVD or not? Or is it an option that the manufacturer decides whether or not to include? I think I've heard/read it both ways. If not then there's a pretty big "could win" for HD.
When I go HD I'll start buying HD, but there are plenty of my current titles that aren't worth re-buying, especially if my new player is any good at upscaling.
Are you sure your concerns about the "vulnerability" of the data are actually an issue? That sounds pretty theoretical to me. I'm asking because I really don't know.
I've googled for hard data on field-use error rates, but haven't found anything yet, so this is largely a theoretical argument, but I think the reasons for concern are sound. Here's a reasonably good description of the two technologies from Sound and Vision Magazine, albeit from May 2005:
Inside Tech: Blu-ray & HD DVD
What I get from reading the above article is that the way the Blu-Ray laser has to focus on data so very close to the disc surface is that it's much harder for the laser to "see around" small scratches and surface contamination than is the case for HD-DVD. Even if the hard coat helps prevent scratches, and perhaps is somewhat resistant to dust and dirt, it's not like all dust and dirt will be magically repelled by this coating.
One thing that's got me a little confused is that I've heard some people say that not all Blu-Ray discs are being hard coated. Is this true? If so, and there's no protective cartridge for the discs as had been considered at one time, that sounds positively disastrous.
Two, I posted several links that you promptly IGNORED. I'll tell you again: Go to Walmart.com, Target.com, Amazon.com, CircuitCity.com, etc. Tell me how many are just "sitting around" not bundled.
Actually, Amazon.com had 20gb models up for order a good portion of yesterday. Sold out by this morning, but they were there.
Can BluRay players play DVD or not? Or is it an option that the manufacturer decides whether or not to include? I think I've heard/read it both ways. If not then there's a pretty big "could win" for HD.
As far as I know, all of the current Blu-Ray players play standard DVDs, it's just more of a challenge (and hence probably more expensive) to build the optics to handle both formats. Both HD DVD and standard DVD have a data layer which is 0.6 mm below the disc surface. Blu-Ray's data layer is only 0.1 mm below the disc surface. It's trickier to build optics which will focus as close as 0.1 mm, then switch to 0.6 mm for standard DVDs and 1.2 mm for CDs.
When I go HD I'll start buying HD, but there are plenty of my current titles that aren't worth re-buying, especially if my new player is any good at upscaling.
My Toshiba A2 does a pretty good job of upscaling standard DVD, but as impressive as it is to get such a good picture from a regular DVD, HD DVD still looks a lot better. I've got a 70" 1920x1080 TV, however -- the difference might not seem so great on smaller displays.
Blu-ray Hardcoat/Durability: The hardcoat is used on all Blu-ray discs. Nothing to worry about here, the hardcoat is part of the Blu-ray spec....
http://www.tdk.com/professional/marketing/brd3.html
DURABIS protects the disc surface against scratches and resists smudges from fingerprints, providing error-free Blu-ray Disc performance. Hard coating technology pioneered by TDK is part of the Blu-ray specification, but only TDK has DURABIS, the most advanced hard coating formulation for Blu-ray Disc media.
In addition, if one knows that HD DVD incorporates existing DVD protection and this holds to be true...
http://www.durabis.com/en/tec00200.htm[/QUOTE]
In comparison to conventional DVD media, discs incorporating DURABIS technology boast approximately 100 times greater scratch resistance.
A reasonable individual can conclude that the durability is indeed in Blu-ray's favor.
So, in summation, Blu-ray IS backward compatible and boasts better durability--along with the other superiorities in tech specs such as capacity and throughput.
Beyond that stupid console bickering, we should get back to the topic at hand.
Agreed.
Reasons HD-DVD Could "Win."
1. The "HD-DVD" name (I think that's big for consumers)
2. Potentially better durability
3. Lower player prices
4. Manufacturers can use existing facilities for pressing.
I can see some logic in #1, however SACD and other formats adding letters did nothing in terms of extending the success of a name. Plus, IMO, Blu-ray not only sounds cooler, but also rolls off the tongue a lot easier than H-D-D-V-D.
#2 doesn't hold any potential IMO. Clearly, Blu-ray has the better durability.
#3 isn't quite true either. You can get a Blu-ray player at $499 and an HD DVD player. Price is the same.
#4 makes no difference as the price to the consumer for discs is the SAME as well.
Reasons Blu-Ray Could "Win."
1. Better capacity
2. PS3 native Blu-Ray installed base
3. Larger consortium of support, inlcuding content providers
4. Mind share is arguably higher than HD-DVD at present
Others?
I would go ahead and add better durability, and equal pricing (for both players and discs) to the Blu-ray list. Obviously, Blu-ray has the most going for it, it is just a matter of getting their other players down in price and out in mass.
I've googled for hard data on field-use error rates, but haven't found anything yet, so this is largely a theoretical argument, but I think the reasons for concern are sound. Here's a reasonably good description of the two technologies from Sound and Vision Magazine, albeit from May 2005:
Inside Tech: Blu-ray & HD DVD
What I get from reading the above article is that the way the Blu-Ray laser has to focus on data so very close to the disc surface is that it's much harder for the laser to "see around" small scratches and surface contamination than is the case for HD-DVD. Even if the hard coat helps prevent scratches, and perhaps is somewhat resistant to dust and dirt, it's not like all dust and dirt will be magically repelled by this coating.
One thing that's got me a little confused is that I've heard some people say that not all Blu-Ray discs are being hard coated. Is this true? If so, and there's no protective cartridge for the discs as had been considered at one time, that sounds positively disastrous.
Here is the part I find relevant:
Bringing the data layer closer to the disc surface also increases Blu-ray's sensitivit y to surface defects like scratches, dust, and fingerprints. With CDs, DVDs, and HD DVDs, the defects are out of focus by the time the laser spot hits the data layer inside the disc, minimizing interference. The first Blu-ray prototype discs had disc cartridges to guard against surface contamination, but recent prototypes have had a ?hard-coat? layer (which TDK uses on some of its recordable DVDs) that reduces data-corrupting disc damage. Nonetheless, for reliable operation, it'll probably be important to keep BDs as clean and scratch-free as possible (not a bad idea for any optical format).
It seems like the author is reaching there, speculating about durability. No?
Not to belabor the whole console thing but;
The second Xbox 360 revealed: codename Zephyr
Ever wonder why Microsoft hasn't released an HDMI cable for the Xbox 360, or whether the AV port was really capable of digital out? Well, here's your answer: we landed pictures of what appears to be the second Xbox 360 -- the Xbox 360 v2, if you will -- codenamed Zephyr. (The original Xbox 360, if you recall, was codenamed Xenon.) The long rumored about and awaited update to the console won't just feature a new, cooler 65nm processor, it's also finally added an HDMI port for full digital 1080p pleasure, as well as a 120GB drive, just what the doctor ordered.