The iPhone cannot change the world if it's priced at ~$1k unlocked, or if you have to join crappy Cingular service to own it.
Sounds like you are waiting for the world to change.
Well it isn't going to happen tomorrow but it will happen.
The iPhone is just the tip of the iceberg.
The iPhone will get more powerful over the years.
The iPhone will get cheaper.
More form factors will be available.
It won't be exclusive to Cingular forever.
The Mac and the iPod didn't change the world the day they were introduced but nobody could have imagined the impact they have since had. People will be doing things with 4th generation iPhones we can't even imagine.
you could find out very easily what cellphones have, if you really wanted to.
But, if you don't, that's not my concern.
You said "All actual GPS receivers use AGPS" and I gave you 3 specific examples where AGPS wasn't used. So clearly you made an incorrect statement.
Now if you had said "All cell phones use AGPS" in that case you would be correct AFAIK.
And IMHO the FCC Phase II requirement of 50m-300m for E-911 accuracy is not very useful for personal navigation purposes (but would be sufficient for rescue purposes).
You said "All actual GPS receivers use AGPS" and I gave you 3 specific examples where AGPS wasn't used. So clearly you made an incorrect statement.
Now if you had said "All cell phones use AGPS" in that case you would be correct AFAIK.
And IMHO the FCC Phase II requirement of 50m-300m for E-911 accuracy is not very useful for navigation purposes.
First of all, I'm assuming that by discussing the iPhone, we are discussing consumer devices. There have been others, mostly military that have had greater accuracy. But AGPS was invented primarily for boating use, but has since spread.
For non phone use it seems as though AGPS is being replaced by L2C.
First of all, I'm assuming that by discussing the iPhone, we are discussing consumer devices. There have been others, mostly military that have had greater accuracy. But AGPS was invented primarily for boating use, but has since spread.
For non phone use it seems as though AGPS is being replaced by L2C.
L2C? Clueless on that one also, what does it stand for (so that I can google/wiki it)?
And yes we were talking past each other, I sort of caught on towards the end (you were thinking consumer, I was thinking all + perhaps accuracy). Sorry for the confusion.
EDIT - L2C OK got it, it's GPS III coming online in 2011-3 timeframe.
I'm sure he said it, and I'm sure that All USA cellphones have it.
I reviewed the section where Steve demos Google maps and there was no mention of GPS.
If you are so sure give us the time stamp at which he mentions it in the keynote.
Also if it was a feature of the phone, you would definitely see it listed on the slides during the presentation or on the website. It is neither place.
I believe the phone may be able to tell the local zipcode by the phone tower it is using but does not have true GPS. I stand by my earlier prediction that it will be able to use bluetooth GPS receivers or one plugged into the dock connector.
We should probably start referring to it as iPhone OS X.
The next generation of iPod will be running iPod OS X.
Also it occurs to me that if there is a GoogleMaps app on iPhone then we might see Apple doing a full scale GoogleMaps.app or GoogleEarth.app for Leopard. This is a market segment that the Mac has seriously lagged behind in forever. Maybe Apple will finally pick up the slack.
I can also envision where Apple could take this with in car navigation/entertainment.
I reviewed the section where Steve demos Google maps and there was no mention of GPS.
If you are so sure give us the time stamp at which he mentions it in the keynote.
Also if it was a feature of the phone, you would definitely see it listed on the slides during the presentation or on the website. It is neither place.
I believe the phone may be able to tell the local zipcode by the phone tower it is using but does not have true GPS. I stand by my earlier prediction that it will be able to use bluetooth GPS receivers or one plugged into the dock connector.
I haven't seen the keynote video, but I looked at both Ars Technica and Macworld livefeeds, both mentioned GPS. BTW do you know where I can download the keynote video (for later viewing), the Apple website has only the VoIP feed and a link to iTunes for downloading, however the iTunes store states "The item you've requested is currently not available in the US store."
But I do believe you are correct, in that if the iPhone needs a GPS sensor for navigation purposes (and I believe it does for accuracy reasons), and the iPhone itself doesn't have an embedded GPS sensor with line-of-sight access to said GPS satellites (which I don't think it does from my casual viewing of the iPhone photos), then yes it will need an external device (GPS sensor). I would think the sensor would be fairly obvious, the one I have is ~0.75" square (for the sensor itself, not the housing).
But than again after looking at the sensor housing I have, it is encased in a pretty thick piece of plastic, so who knows it could be inside the iPhone. I would also add that with AGPS assistance, most of the EE stuff is offloaded to the cell network for processing, so in those cases, perhaps with line-of-sight GPS data, within cell phone range, you may get fairly accurate positioning for navigation purposes.
This is what Apple initially wanted to Newton to be.
How long before we see a Newton emulator running on it?
Seriously though, the Newton was exactly what Apple wanted it to be.
The Newton wasn't what Steve wanted it to be.(Thats why he killed it)
The iPhone is what Steve wanted the Newton to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHateRegistering
I'm suprised they did not show the Calendar and To Do functions. This is the Killer-app on my Treo. I'd be lost without it.
I too was looking for To Do and memo recording.
Two essential features of a smartphone.
They did show stills of the Calendar client but no action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHateRegistering
Someone brought up lack of IR, so it cannot be used as a remote. At first I thought that was a pretty gay suggestion, but now I think if anyone could solve the problem of TOO MANY REMOTES, it's Apple.
Yeah, that was my gay suggestion.
I'm also disappointed that they left out GAYDAR.
Probably useless in San Fran but still sounds like an opportunity for a 3rd party developer.
I haven't seen the keynote video, but I looked at both Ars Technics and Macworld livefeeds, both mentioned GPS. BTW do you know where I can download the keynote video (for later viewing), the Apple website has only the VoIP feed and a link to iTunes for downloading, however the iTunes store states "The item you've requested is currently not available in the US store."
But I do believe you are correct, in that if the iPhone needs a GPS sensor for navigation purposes (and I believe it does for accuracy reasons), and the iPhone itself doesn't have an embedded GPS sensor with line-of-sight access to said GPS satellites (which I don't think it does from my casual viewing of the iPhone photos), then yes it will need an external device (GPS sensor). I would think the sensor would be fairly obvious, the one I have is ~0.75" square (for the sensor itself, not the housing).
But than again after looking at the sensor housing I have, it is encased in a pretty thick piece of plastic, so who knows it could be inside the iPhone. I would also add that with AGPS assistance, most of the EE stuff is offloaded to the cell network for processing, so in those cases, perhaps with line-of-sight GPS data, within cell phone range, you may get fairly accurate positioning for navigation purposes.
But basically it's TBD!
The keynote is only available for streaming.
The reference to Google Maps and Directions were misunderstood as GPS functionality.
You can get directions but you have to tell it where you are.
One thing I was surprised about was there was no speech functions demoed.
I hope it does text to speech for things like verbalizing directions.
I have a TomTom bluetooth GPS receiver that is the size of a very small cellphone and I hope I will be able to use it with the iPhone.
Megapixels don't make a good camera. I've never seen a case where more megapixels on a camera phone beyond that yielded better picture quality, except maybe for the cameras that happen to have an integrated phone.
Whereas I partly agree there, you won't see a decent phone from Nokia, SE and even Samsung dip that low this year and they also have good lenses and flashes. eg. SE K800i - 3.2mp, Xenon flash and great lens. Nokia N95 - 5mp autofocus, flash. I think Samsung were even showing phones with popout zoom lenses.
Apple's 2mp camera without flash is kind of tame by comparison, especially if like most people, you look at the specs in a comparison chart.
It certainly wouldn't be a deal breaker for me - the software is the important thing - but people don't actual look at that often as the success of Motorola and LG Chocolate phones shows.
The reference to Google Maps and Directions were misunderstood as GPS functionality.
You can get directions but you have to tell it where you are.
One thing I was surprised about was there was no speech functions demoed.
I hope it does text to speech for things like verbalizing directions.
I have a TomTom bluetooth GPS receiver that is the size of a very small cellphone and I hope I will be able to use it with the iPhone.
Not strictly true. On GSM at least the phone knows where it is by triangulating itself against a number of radio masts. It's not as accurate as GPS but it's enough to provide you with a rough start point and it's used to provide local info. Application developers can query the position easily enough.
So, if you wanted to find all the Starbucks local to you, it'd be capable of doing that easily but not quite capable to enough to provide street level directions turn for turn as you're walking.
I'd be surprised if it doesn't let you link to a bluetooth GPS at some point though if it really doesn't have true GPS built in.
Also it occurs to me that if there is a GoogleMaps app on iPhone then we might see Apple doing a full scale GoogleMaps.app or GoogleEarth.app for Leopard.
It's preferences. The Nokia certainly isn't worth more in my eyes.
I agree. The 8800 is sold a s premium fashion item though rather than on features. It's jewel like in construction. I'd not be surprised if Apple tries to push the iPhone at the same customers, not just the business people/geeks that have so far been happy with ugly things like current smartphones, none of which are vaguely fashionable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
2 MP in a phone camera is plenty. I've seen higher rez pics from them, and they are bad.
Phones don't make good cameras.
The lens on a phone is really terrible. Thast limits the worth of the sensor right there. The processing is very poor as well.
It's good for a snapshot, or an emergency, but no more.
I believe Samsung announced an 8 MP phone. what a waste!
Here's Cabel Sasser's review of the SE K790a (it's the K800i in Europe with a couple more features) as counter evidence.
Sure, it's no SLR but from Cabel's pictures it's clear it's perfectly fine for most people's snaps and damned handy to have on you all the time. The p990i I had also had a camera good enough that I'd have used it most of the time instead of my trusty Olympus. I hope Apple's 2mp camera is a good 2mp camera. It doesn't have to be SLR great, but good enough for web use would do me.
Samsung generally just throws megapixel specs at people hoping they're dumb enough to miss out that it's the glass that generally makes a good camera.
People who want a bigger HD, that's fine. We all do.
People whining about it are another matter. Think about it. This is a *PHONE* with iPod functionality. You want an 80GB iPod, buy an 80gb iPod. If you're lucky Apple will allow the two to be connected together.
If you throw a hard disk in there you could wave goodbye to the nice size and the good battery life. I know people want it all but sometimes there have to be compromises.
If you want to go forward 10 years I'm sure the compromises will have slowly been vanquished.
This is still a major step forward. It's not 2 major steps forward, but then neither was the iPod. Creative (and others) had been doing HD MP3 players for ages. It took Apple to do them right. Others had been doing flash based players for ages. Again, it took Apple to do them right.
Well done Apple. Just don't lose your focus on everything else.
Oh, and Wi-Fi VOIP calling please. This would be a ridiculous ommision just to please Cingular.
I reviewed the section where Steve demos Google maps and there was no mention of GPS.
If you are so sure give us the time stamp at which he mentions it in the keynote.
Also if it was a feature of the phone, you would definitely see it listed on the slides during the presentation or on the website. It is neither place.
I believe the phone may be able to tell the local zipcode by the phone tower it is using but does not have true GPS. I stand by my earlier prediction that it will be able to use bluetooth GPS receivers or one plugged into the dock connector.
I don't remember when he said it, because I didn't see it myself.
But all of the sites that had live coverage said that he mentioned it. Again, when? Maybe before that part.
In fact, those who were following the live coverage here in the chat room should remember that it was mentioned.
I'm no expert, it's been almost 10 years since I've done any DGPS surveys (1cm accuracy), but I do know that at that time realtime kinematic GPS existed (10cm accuracy). All that is processed within the receiver itself, so those do not use an assistance server as required for AGPS. Plus I have Misrosoft's Streets and Trips 2007 with a GPS receiver, it needs line-of-sight, and it doesn't need AGPS.
Do you really know what all you are talking about? Really!
DGPS ("Differential GPS") requires a fixed base station with exact knowledge of its true position, listening for the GPS signal.
It processes the signal, computes the "difference" between the GPS position and the true position, and emits a second radio signal (MSK modulation, if you must know) telling all supported equipment in the vicinity the correction factor to apply to the GPS signal to improve precision.
[edit]
regarding line-of-sight:
Every AGPS receiver needs to have a true GPS receiver somewhere inside it... It may be embedded inside the body of the device, potentially limiting the available gain. It doesn't eliminate the requirement of line-of-sight. But most phone casings are not opaque to RF radiation.
AGPS provides a means for either computationally-challenged or low-signal receivers to get some help from an outside source. Receivers might get additional information about the GPS time synchronization, the satellites' current positions and pre-computed Doppler shifts so that they don't require as much gain to lock in on the signals or as much processing power to interpret them.
It's entirely possible that the iPhone uses AGPS too. So what?
I agree. The 8800 is sold a s premium fashion item though rather than on features. It's jewel like in construction. I'd not be surprised if Apple tries to push the iPhone at the same customers, not just the business people/geeks that have so far been happy with ugly things like current smartphones, none of which are vaguely fashionable.
Here's Cabel Sasser's review of the SE K790a (it's the K800i in Europe with a couple more features) as counter evidence.
Sure, it's no SLR but from Cabel's pictures it's clear it's perfectly fine for most people's snaps and damned handy to have on you all the time. The p990i I had also had a camera good enough that I'd have used it most of the time instead of my trusty Olympus. I hope Apple's 2mp camera is a good 2mp camera. It doesn't have to be SLR great, but good enough for web use would do me.
Samsung generally just throws megapixel specs at people hoping they're dumb enough to miss out that it's the glass that generally makes a good camera.
The photo's aren't bad, but I can see problems. But, then, I come from decades of professional background. I have very high standards here.
But, I've said that they are good enough for snaps. The best phone cameras will take very good snaps, but that's about it. Higher rez won't be acceptable. None of these cameras can be very good. The large lens in that one model takes too much room from the phone as it is. Complex models such as the iPhone are so packed with parts, that a good camera is out of the question for now. Maybe in later years.
DGPS ("Differential GPS") requires a fixed base station with exact knowledge of its true position, listening for the GPS signal.
It processes the signal, computes the "difference" between the GPS position and the true position, and emits a second radio signal (MSK modulation, if you must know) telling all supported equipment in the vicinity the correction factor to apply to the GPS signal to improve precision.
Yes of course, been there done that, about 40 times in fact, but that was 10 years ago. Don't know how it's done now, but back then it required alot of post-processing and quality control. Especially if you were tracking something over 20-30 miles, say large ships in channels, say in the Panama Canal, say during the 1997 el Nino, and needed 6-DOF motions (minimum of 3 receivers on the moving body), and needed cm level accuracy (X, Y, and especially Z) from all three receivers.
But the point was that these are direct line-of-sight GPS techniques, they don't use AGPS (i. e. a combination of known cell tower coordinates (GPS coordinates) and RF triangulation + an assistant server to do the heavy lifting (calculate the cell phones position to 50m-300m (+/-))). So if the iPhone only uses AGPS don't expect it to save your ass if your lost in the woods somewhere without access to a cell phone network.
Comments
The iPhone cannot change the world if it's priced at ~$1k unlocked, or if you have to join crappy Cingular service to own it.
Sounds like you are waiting for the world to change.
Well it isn't going to happen tomorrow but it will happen.
The iPhone is just the tip of the iceberg.
The iPhone will get more powerful over the years.
The iPhone will get cheaper.
More form factors will be available.
It won't be exclusive to Cingular forever.
The Mac and the iPod didn't change the world the day they were introduced but nobody could have imagined the impact they have since had. People will be doing things with 4th generation iPhones we can't even imagine.
Yes, I do, do you?
you could find out very easily what cellphones have, if you really wanted to.
But, if you don't, that's not my concern.
You said "All actual GPS receivers use AGPS" and I gave you 3 specific examples where AGPS wasn't used. So clearly you made an incorrect statement.
Now if you had said "All cell phones use AGPS" in that case you would be correct AFAIK.
And IMHO the FCC Phase II requirement of 50m-300m for E-911 accuracy is not very useful for personal navigation purposes (but would be sufficient for rescue purposes).
You said "All actual GPS receivers use AGPS" and I gave you 3 specific examples where AGPS wasn't used. So clearly you made an incorrect statement.
Now if you had said "All cell phones use AGPS" in that case you would be correct AFAIK.
And IMHO the FCC Phase II requirement of 50m-300m for E-911 accuracy is not very useful for navigation purposes.
First of all, I'm assuming that by discussing the iPhone, we are discussing consumer devices. There have been others, mostly military that have had greater accuracy. But AGPS was invented primarily for boating use, but has since spread.
For non phone use it seems as though AGPS is being replaced by L2C.
First of all, I'm assuming that by discussing the iPhone, we are discussing consumer devices. There have been others, mostly military that have had greater accuracy. But AGPS was invented primarily for boating use, but has since spread.
For non phone use it seems as though AGPS is being replaced by L2C.
L2C? Clueless on that one also, what does it stand for (so that I can google/wiki it)?
And yes we were talking past each other, I sort of caught on towards the end (you were thinking consumer, I was thinking all + perhaps accuracy). Sorry for the confusion.
EDIT - L2C OK got it, it's GPS III coming online in 2011-3 timeframe.
I'm sure he said it, and I'm sure that All USA cellphones have it.
I reviewed the section where Steve demos Google maps and there was no mention of GPS.
If you are so sure give us the time stamp at which he mentions it in the keynote.
Also if it was a feature of the phone, you would definitely see it listed on the slides during the presentation or on the website. It is neither place.
I believe the phone may be able to tell the local zipcode by the phone tower it is using but does not have true GPS. I stand by my earlier prediction that it will be able to use bluetooth GPS receivers or one plugged into the dock connector.
We should probably start referring to it as iPhone OS X.
The next generation of iPod will be running iPod OS X.
Also it occurs to me that if there is a GoogleMaps app on iPhone then we might see Apple doing a full scale GoogleMaps.app or GoogleEarth.app for Leopard. This is a market segment that the Mac has seriously lagged behind in forever. Maybe Apple will finally pick up the slack.
I can also envision where Apple could take this with in car navigation/entertainment.
I hope my next car stereo runs iDash OS X.
I reviewed the section where Steve demos Google maps and there was no mention of GPS.
If you are so sure give us the time stamp at which he mentions it in the keynote.
Also if it was a feature of the phone, you would definitely see it listed on the slides during the presentation or on the website. It is neither place.
I believe the phone may be able to tell the local zipcode by the phone tower it is using but does not have true GPS. I stand by my earlier prediction that it will be able to use bluetooth GPS receivers or one plugged into the dock connector.
I haven't seen the keynote video, but I looked at both Ars Technica and Macworld livefeeds, both mentioned GPS. BTW do you know where I can download the keynote video (for later viewing), the Apple website has only the VoIP feed and a link to iTunes for downloading, however the iTunes store states "The item you've requested is currently not available in the US store."
But I do believe you are correct, in that if the iPhone needs a GPS sensor for navigation purposes (and I believe it does for accuracy reasons), and the iPhone itself doesn't have an embedded GPS sensor with line-of-sight access to said GPS satellites (which I don't think it does from my casual viewing of the iPhone photos), then yes it will need an external device (GPS sensor). I would think the sensor would be fairly obvious, the one I have is ~0.75" square (for the sensor itself, not the housing).
But than again after looking at the sensor housing I have, it is encased in a pretty thick piece of plastic, so who knows it could be inside the iPhone. I would also add that with AGPS assistance, most of the EE stuff is offloaded to the cell network for processing, so in those cases, perhaps with line-of-sight GPS data, within cell phone range, you may get fairly accurate positioning for navigation purposes.
But basically it's TBD!
This is what Apple initially wanted to Newton to be.
How long before we see a Newton emulator running on it?
Seriously though, the Newton was exactly what Apple wanted it to be.
The Newton wasn't what Steve wanted it to be.(Thats why he killed it)
The iPhone is what Steve wanted the Newton to be.
I'm suprised they did not show the Calendar and To Do functions. This is the Killer-app on my Treo. I'd be lost without it.
I too was looking for To Do and memo recording.
Two essential features of a smartphone.
They did show stills of the Calendar client but no action.
Someone brought up lack of IR, so it cannot be used as a remote. At first I thought that was a pretty gay suggestion, but now I think if anyone could solve the problem of TOO MANY REMOTES, it's Apple.
Yeah, that was my gay suggestion.
I'm also disappointed that they left out GAYDAR.
Probably useless in San Fran but still sounds like an opportunity for a 3rd party developer.
I haven't seen the keynote video, but I looked at both Ars Technics and Macworld livefeeds, both mentioned GPS. BTW do you know where I can download the keynote video (for later viewing), the Apple website has only the VoIP feed and a link to iTunes for downloading, however the iTunes store states "The item you've requested is currently not available in the US store."
But I do believe you are correct, in that if the iPhone needs a GPS sensor for navigation purposes (and I believe it does for accuracy reasons), and the iPhone itself doesn't have an embedded GPS sensor with line-of-sight access to said GPS satellites (which I don't think it does from my casual viewing of the iPhone photos), then yes it will need an external device (GPS sensor). I would think the sensor would be fairly obvious, the one I have is ~0.75" square (for the sensor itself, not the housing).
But than again after looking at the sensor housing I have, it is encased in a pretty thick piece of plastic, so who knows it could be inside the iPhone. I would also add that with AGPS assistance, most of the EE stuff is offloaded to the cell network for processing, so in those cases, perhaps with line-of-sight GPS data, within cell phone range, you may get fairly accurate positioning for navigation purposes.
But basically it's TBD!
The keynote is only available for streaming.
The reference to Google Maps and Directions were misunderstood as GPS functionality.
You can get directions but you have to tell it where you are.
One thing I was surprised about was there was no speech functions demoed.
I hope it does text to speech for things like verbalizing directions.
I have a TomTom bluetooth GPS receiver that is the size of a very small cellphone and I hope I will be able to use it with the iPhone.
The keynote is only available for streaming.
The reference to Google Maps and Directions were misunderstood as GPS functionality.
You can get directions but you have to tell it where you are.
One thing I was surprised about was there was no speech functions demoed.
I hope it does text to speech for things like verbalizing directions.
I have a TomTom bluetooth GPS receiver that is the size of a very small cellphone and I hope I will be able to use it with the iPhone.
Yes, that would be my best guess, wireless GPS connectivity to the iPhone, it will have to have the SW though from either Apple or 3rd party.
It does make me wonder though what the CPU is considering all that it does, any ideas, or has it already been mentioned in this LONG thread?
Megapixels don't make a good camera. I've never seen a case where more megapixels on a camera phone beyond that yielded better picture quality, except maybe for the cameras that happen to have an integrated phone.
Whereas I partly agree there, you won't see a decent phone from Nokia, SE and even Samsung dip that low this year and they also have good lenses and flashes. eg. SE K800i - 3.2mp, Xenon flash and great lens. Nokia N95 - 5mp autofocus, flash. I think Samsung were even showing phones with popout zoom lenses.
Apple's 2mp camera without flash is kind of tame by comparison, especially if like most people, you look at the specs in a comparison chart.
It certainly wouldn't be a deal breaker for me - the software is the important thing - but people don't actual look at that often as the success of Motorola and LG Chocolate phones shows.
The keynote is only available for streaming.
The reference to Google Maps and Directions were misunderstood as GPS functionality.
You can get directions but you have to tell it where you are.
One thing I was surprised about was there was no speech functions demoed.
I hope it does text to speech for things like verbalizing directions.
I have a TomTom bluetooth GPS receiver that is the size of a very small cellphone and I hope I will be able to use it with the iPhone.
Not strictly true. On GSM at least the phone knows where it is by triangulating itself against a number of radio masts. It's not as accurate as GPS but it's enough to provide you with a rough start point and it's used to provide local info. Application developers can query the position easily enough.
So, if you wanted to find all the Starbucks local to you, it'd be capable of doing that easily but not quite capable to enough to provide street level directions turn for turn as you're walking.
I'd be surprised if it doesn't let you link to a bluetooth GPS at some point though if it really doesn't have true GPS built in.
Also it occurs to me that if there is a GoogleMaps app on iPhone then we might see Apple doing a full scale GoogleMaps.app or GoogleEarth.app for Leopard.
Huh? http://earth.google.com/download-earth.html
It's preferences. The Nokia certainly isn't worth more in my eyes.
I agree. The 8800 is sold a s premium fashion item though rather than on features. It's jewel like in construction. I'd not be surprised if Apple tries to push the iPhone at the same customers, not just the business people/geeks that have so far been happy with ugly things like current smartphones, none of which are vaguely fashionable.
2 MP in a phone camera is plenty. I've seen higher rez pics from them, and they are bad.
Phones don't make good cameras.
The lens on a phone is really terrible. Thast limits the worth of the sensor right there. The processing is very poor as well.
It's good for a snapshot, or an emergency, but no more.
I believe Samsung announced an 8 MP phone. what a waste!
Here's Cabel Sasser's review of the SE K790a (it's the K800i in Europe with a couple more features) as counter evidence.
http://www.cabel.name/2006/11/review...son-k790a.html
Sure, it's no SLR but from Cabel's pictures it's clear it's perfectly fine for most people's snaps and damned handy to have on you all the time. The p990i I had also had a camera good enough that I'd have used it most of the time instead of my trusty Olympus. I hope Apple's 2mp camera is a good 2mp camera. It doesn't have to be SLR great, but good enough for web use would do me.
Samsung generally just throws megapixel specs at people hoping they're dumb enough to miss out that it's the glass that generally makes a good camera.
People whining about it are another matter. Think about it. This is a *PHONE* with iPod functionality. You want an 80GB iPod, buy an 80gb iPod. If you're lucky Apple will allow the two to be connected together.
If you throw a hard disk in there you could wave goodbye to the nice size and the good battery life. I know people want it all but sometimes there have to be compromises.
If you want to go forward 10 years I'm sure the compromises will have slowly been vanquished.
This is still a major step forward. It's not 2 major steps forward, but then neither was the iPod. Creative (and others) had been doing HD MP3 players for ages. It took Apple to do them right. Others had been doing flash based players for ages. Again, it took Apple to do them right.
Well done Apple. Just don't lose your focus on everything else.
Oh, and Wi-Fi VOIP calling please. This would be a ridiculous ommision just to please Cingular.
Alex
I reviewed the section where Steve demos Google maps and there was no mention of GPS.
If you are so sure give us the time stamp at which he mentions it in the keynote.
Also if it was a feature of the phone, you would definitely see it listed on the slides during the presentation or on the website. It is neither place.
I believe the phone may be able to tell the local zipcode by the phone tower it is using but does not have true GPS. I stand by my earlier prediction that it will be able to use bluetooth GPS receivers or one plugged into the dock connector.
I don't remember when he said it, because I didn't see it myself.
But all of the sites that had live coverage said that he mentioned it. Again, when? Maybe before that part.
In fact, those who were following the live coverage here in the chat room should remember that it was mentioned.
I'm no expert, it's been almost 10 years since I've done any DGPS surveys (1cm accuracy), but I do know that at that time realtime kinematic GPS existed (10cm accuracy). All that is processed within the receiver itself, so those do not use an assistance server as required for AGPS. Plus I have Misrosoft's Streets and Trips 2007 with a GPS receiver, it needs line-of-sight, and it doesn't need AGPS.
Do you really know what all you are talking about? Really!
DGPS ("Differential GPS") requires a fixed base station with exact knowledge of its true position, listening for the GPS signal.
It processes the signal, computes the "difference" between the GPS position and the true position, and emits a second radio signal (MSK modulation, if you must know) telling all supported equipment in the vicinity the correction factor to apply to the GPS signal to improve precision.
[edit]
regarding line-of-sight:
Every AGPS receiver needs to have a true GPS receiver somewhere inside it... It may be embedded inside the body of the device, potentially limiting the available gain. It doesn't eliminate the requirement of line-of-sight. But most phone casings are not opaque to RF radiation.
AGPS provides a means for either computationally-challenged or low-signal receivers to get some help from an outside source. Receivers might get additional information about the GPS time synchronization, the satellites' current positions and pre-computed Doppler shifts so that they don't require as much gain to lock in on the signals or as much processing power to interpret them.
It's entirely possible that the iPhone uses AGPS too. So what?
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I agree. The 8800 is sold a s premium fashion item though rather than on features. It's jewel like in construction. I'd not be surprised if Apple tries to push the iPhone at the same customers, not just the business people/geeks that have so far been happy with ugly things like current smartphones, none of which are vaguely fashionable.
Here's Cabel Sasser's review of the SE K790a (it's the K800i in Europe with a couple more features) as counter evidence.
http://www.cabel.name/2006/11/review...son-k790a.html
Sure, it's no SLR but from Cabel's pictures it's clear it's perfectly fine for most people's snaps and damned handy to have on you all the time. The p990i I had also had a camera good enough that I'd have used it most of the time instead of my trusty Olympus. I hope Apple's 2mp camera is a good 2mp camera. It doesn't have to be SLR great, but good enough for web use would do me.
Samsung generally just throws megapixel specs at people hoping they're dumb enough to miss out that it's the glass that generally makes a good camera.
The photo's aren't bad, but I can see problems. But, then, I come from decades of professional background. I have very high standards here.
But, I've said that they are good enough for snaps. The best phone cameras will take very good snaps, but that's about it. Higher rez won't be acceptable. None of these cameras can be very good. The large lens in that one model takes too much room from the phone as it is. Complex models such as the iPhone are so packed with parts, that a good camera is out of the question for now. Maybe in later years.
DGPS ("Differential GPS") requires a fixed base station with exact knowledge of its true position, listening for the GPS signal.
It processes the signal, computes the "difference" between the GPS position and the true position, and emits a second radio signal (MSK modulation, if you must know) telling all supported equipment in the vicinity the correction factor to apply to the GPS signal to improve precision.
Yes of course, been there done that, about 40 times in fact, but that was 10 years ago. Don't know how it's done now, but back then it required alot of post-processing and quality control. Especially if you were tracking something over 20-30 miles, say large ships in channels, say in the Panama Canal, say during the 1997 el Nino, and needed 6-DOF motions (minimum of 3 receivers on the moving body), and needed cm level accuracy (X, Y, and especially Z) from all three receivers.
But the point was that these are direct line-of-sight GPS techniques, they don't use AGPS (i. e. a combination of known cell tower coordinates (GPS coordinates) and RF triangulation + an assistant server to do the heavy lifting (calculate the cell phones position to 50m-300m (+/-))). So if the iPhone only uses AGPS don't expect it to save your ass if your lost in the woods somewhere without access to a cell phone network.