Apple stuns Macworld crowd with multi-function iPhone device

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  • Reply 341 of 439
    people around think i'm crazy. but this phone is a MUST HAVE!!! it's EVERYTHING I've always wanted. i travel from florida to NJ for a 3-4 days 4 times a year and I'll never go through the hassle of dragging my ibook through security and on a plane EVER again after i have this PDA!!!! Say goodbye Palm........
  • Reply 342 of 439
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    You know Mel, saying those two things over and over aren't going to make them true. So far you have provided no evidence that either of these things are true.



    For the first point, if Jobs said it, please provide the time stamp for the time at which he said it during the keynote.



    For the second, you seem to assume that because of the E-911 regs, all phones have AGPS. But as others have pointed out several times, a mobile can triangulate its position using network basestations to an accuracy that meets the E-911 regs. Triangulation using basestations is not AGPS. If you've got some concrete evidence that all US phones have AGPS, please provide it.



    We did have discussions about this. It has been resolved.



    Just how difficult is it for you to type AGPS in Google? Not very hard.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS



    Every real time reporting site stated that Jobs said it had GPS. Even here, in the chatroom where we had our realtime reporting, we had that info.



    No, I don't have a timestamp.



    This is a listing of what was mentioned. If you find other listings, you should see it there as well. Read well down.



    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070109-8580.html
  • Reply 343 of 439
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Not if they have to make changes.



    And Both jobs and Pogue said that it wasn't finished, with placeholders for icons (For what? They didn't say.).



    They didn't demo Calculator, Clock, Notes or Calendar. When Steve & Phil organised to see a movie at 7 they missed out the final step that I'd have done on my p910 at least - hop into calendar and check I was free and then set an appointment and alarm.



    I'd probably also cut the text out of the web browser and paste it in the note section of my alarm too since it was there.



    They also didn't demo taking a photo with the camera or shooting video but Pogue said it worked ok yet Steve said it needed improving.



    There was a few other things missing but no buttons shown on the screen. No RSS reader. I'd guess that's going in safari though. No MMS support though they could probably include that in the SMS bubble iChat clone.



    Then there was things just plain not there like games, Office apps and the like. Still space left to fill up the black spaces on that home screen before they have to add a category menu like Palm/Symbian.
  • Reply 344 of 439
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post


    They didn't demo Calculator, Clock, Notes or Calendar. When Steve & Phil organised to see a movie at 7 they missed out the final step that I'd have done on my p910 at least - hop into calendar and check I was free and then set an appointment and alarm.



    I'd probably also cut the text out of the web browser and paste it in the note section of my alarm too since it was there.



    They also didn't demo taking a photo with the camera or shooting video but Pogue said it worked ok yet Steve said it needed improving.



    There was a few other things missing but no buttons shown on the screen. No RSS reader. I'd guess that's going in safari though. No MMS support though they could probably include that in the SMS bubble iChat clone.



    Then there was things just plain not there like games, Office apps and the like. Still space left to fill up the black spaces on that home screen before they have to add a category menu like Palm/Symbian.



    Hopefully, all of this will be resolved in a way that we are all happy with.
  • Reply 345 of 439
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    We did have discussions about this. It has been resolved.



    Just how difficult is it for you to type AGPS in Google? Not very hard.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS



    Wow, finally there's a technology in the USA that's even more invasive than the one we have in the UK.



    GSM Location based services, which we've had since the late 90s, just run off your nearest base station location so they aren't that accurate. A while back they started triangulating on some networks for more accuracy but it's still not brilliant.



    I guess we're all going to get GPS in out phones now though, to go with all our CCTV cameras too.
  • Reply 346 of 439
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post


    Wow, finally there's a technology in the USA that's even more invasive than the one we have in the UK.



    GSM Location based services, which we've had since the late 90s, just run off your nearest base station location so they aren't that accurate. A while back they started triangulating on some networks for more accuracy but it's still not brilliant.



    I guess we're all going to get GPS in out phones now though, to go with all our CCTV cameras too.



    Now, THAT'S invasive! But, most people over there when polled, said they either didn't mind it, or liked it. The security, they felt, seemed to be more important.
  • Reply 347 of 439
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    This guy think that the iPhone wil fail miserably due to it's high cost and contract with Cingular. He does some sense, but I have a feeling that Apple is much smarter than s/he is.



    The problem is that it's just hard to know what Apple is up to. Sometimes they keep their secrets in plain sight, I've seen all those UI patents but I never really thought Apple would use them. Some people suggest that they spread false rumors to keep people confused.



    Anyway, I do expect that Apple does do price reductions and adds models. I remember that the iPod Photos were initially very steeply priced, but those went down a couple times several months apart that I remember. Not factoring those possibilities into the armchair punditry makes it a tough sell in my view.



    The Cingular bit is probably tougher to deal with.
  • Reply 348 of 439
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Not if they have to make changes.



    And Both jobs and Pogue said that it wasn't finished, with placeholders for icons (For what? They didn't say.).







    That too, but I think the OS will be miniLeopard, so perhaps by June we'll see fullLeopard, just guessing. I mean the UI looks sorta "Leopardish."



  • Reply 349 of 439
    aries 1baries 1b Posts: 1,009member
    I showed the contents of Apple's iPhone Tab (all the videos on how the iphone works) to my 11 and 9 year old daughters. They both started shrieking like they were at the Ed Sullivan Show when the Beatles first played.



    I'm dead if they don't each get one.



    Migod, this will be huge.



    V/R,



    Aries 1B
  • Reply 350 of 439
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by franksargent View Post






    That too, but I think the OS will be miniLeopard, so perhaps by June we'll see fullLeopard, just guessing. I mean the UI looks sorta "Leopardish."







    It looks kind of Apertureish to me. With the ends of the phone being black, that adds even more to the look. Maybe we will be seeing more of that. The widgits have some of that black look as well.



    I hope we see Leopard a bit before june.
  • Reply 351 of 439




    Two links (fairly recent) on E911 and/or GPS cell phones;



    GPS Is Smartening Up Your Cell Phone (NPR webpage)



    An Island of Chaos Surrounded by a Sea of Confusion: The E911 Wireless Device Location Initiative (Law Journal PDF file)



    The FCC requirement is that E911 must provide a caller's location within an accuracy of 50m (method 1 below) or 100m (method 2 below) 67% of the time (both methods also have accuracy requirements of 150m and 300m 95% of the time for the respective methods), the service providers were to meet this mandate as of December 31, 2005. However, many service providers had not met the FCC mandate by the deadline, extensions had been granted and fines have been imposed.



    The FCC has also approved two cell phone location methods; 1) GPS, and 2) cell tower triangulation. Service providers are at liberty to choose either so long as they meet the accuracy requirements. But since GPS has proved to be the most cost effective (see links), most service providers have opted for the GPS method.



    This would lead me to believe that most (if not all) new cell phones have GPS receivers, but that there is no strict requirement that GPS receivers must be included within the handset. I don't know what the cost delta is for inclusion of GPS receivers within handsets, but if it isn't trivial, I'd expect some of the cheapest handsets wouldn't have GPS receivers. Remember the accuracy requirement, within 50m/100m 67% of the time, not for each handset, but for the service provider's entire customer base on average.



  • Reply 352 of 439
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by franksargent View Post






    Two links (fairly recent) on E911 and/or GPS cell phones;



    GPS Is Smartening Up Your Cell Phone (NPR webpage)



    An Island of Chaos Surrounded by a Sea of Confusion: The E911 Wireless Device Location Initiative (Law Journal PDF file)



    The FCC requirement is that E911 must provide a caller's location within an accuracy of 100m 67% of the time, the service providers were to meet this mandate as of December 31, 2005. However, many service providers had not met the FCC mandate by the deadline, extensions had been granted and fines have been imposed.



    The FCC has also approved two cell phone location methods; 1) GPS, and 2) cell tower triangulation. Service providers are at liberty to choose either so long as the meet the accuracy requirement. But since GPS has proved to be the most cost effective (see links), most service providers have opted for the GPS method.



    This would lead me to believe that most (if not all) new cell phones have GPS receivers, but that there is no strict requirement that GPS receivers must be included within the handset. I don't know what the cost delta is for inclusion of GPS receivers within handsets, but if it isn't trivial, I'd expect some of the cheapest handsets wouldn't have GPS receivers. Remember the accuracy requirement, within 100m 67% of the time, not for each handset, but for the service provider's entire customer base on average.







    That's why I had said, in our earlier discussion, that most cellphones had them.



    But, it really is cheap. The cheapest GPS units on the market are now going for $79, at least the ones I've seen. That's for the entire device. The actual GPS functionality is just a fraction of that.



    So far, that's two sites that support this phone with GPS. Ars, and AI, though we don't have a printout of the chat, as far as I know.
  • Reply 353 of 439
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aries 1B View Post


    I showed the contents of Apple's iPhone Tab (all the videos on how the iphone works) to my 11 and 9 year old daughters. They both started shrieking like they were at the Ed Sullivan Show when the Beatles first played.



    I'm dead if they don't each get one.



    Since it's based on OS X, I've been wondering if it will have Parental Controls.

    I'm guessing that on a $500 smart phone we won't be seeing these features at all.
    • Can only receive calls from people in the approved contact list

    • Can only make calls to people in the approved send list.

    • Can only talk within certain time frames to certain contacts (e.g.: No talking after 9pm with friends)

    • Same thing with sending Email and SMS messages to certain people.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Anyway, I do expect that Apple does do price reductions and adds models. I remember that the iPod Photos were initially very steeply priced, but those went down a couple times several months apart that I remember.



    Good point! The first iPod was $499, and the larger capacity iPod Photo was $599.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod#Models
  • Reply 354 of 439
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    That's why I had said, in our earlier discussion, that most cellphones had them.



    But, it really is cheap. The cheapest GPS units on the market are now going for $79, at least the ones I've seen. That's for the entire device. The actual GPS functionality is just a fraction of that.



    So far, that's two sites that support this phone with GPS. Ars, and AI, though we don't have a printout of the chat, as far as I know.







    I would agree, if you look into the second location method (tower triangulation) the costs are extremely cost prohibitive (I think in the tens of billions of dollars). So much so that, on second thought, it would seem extremely stupid of the service providers not to include GPS, since this would be the most cost effective and timely means of meeting the FCC requirements.



  • Reply 355 of 439
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    That's why I had said, in our earlier discussion, that most cellphones had them.



    But, it really is cheap. The cheapest GPS units on the market are now going for $79, at least the ones I've seen. That's for the entire device. The actual GPS functionality is just a fraction of that.



    So far, that's two sites that support this phone with GPS. Ars, and AI, though we don't have a printout of the chat, as far as I know.







    Given the iPhone price points it would seem to be almost a given that a GPS receiver is included.



    But I could see situations where a Bluetooth GPS receiver would come in handy (navigation inside a vehicle where the iPhone is in your lap/hand and the internal GPS receiver is blocked).



  • Reply 356 of 439
    back when E911 was imposed on the carriers they each had to choose how they would get location data, Verizon went with AGPS (Triangulation) while Nextel & Cingular went with GPS receivers in the phone. I'm not sure about Sprint.

    Each method has advantages, I had a nextel phone that took forever to pull in a GPS signal and would not work in a car. VZ Navigator phones can pull in the location data quickly and accurately almost any time there is a cell signal available, inside a car or building, whatever. Cingular went down the GPS route, so for them to upgrade thousands of cell sites for AGPS is impratical. If the iPhone is going to have location data accurate enough for driving directions it will have to have a GPS receiver built into it, that's all there is to it.



    One more thing to keep in mind: Obviously the iPhone is not in production and may change, Let's say Steve wanted to use the SiFR Star 3 GPS chipset, (actually does work inside, the best available today, as far as I know) He would have been negotiating the cost for the past few months, The best way for him to get a good price would be to pretend he didn't need it at all. He went through with the introduction pretending like he intended to release the iPhone without GPS, that could scare the guys over at SiRF into giving Apple a better deal on the 15,000,000 units. As far as I know most cell phone GPS units use lower quality GPS receivers to this would be a big sale for them any way you add it up.



    And what does Steve loose by holding off that announcement, nothing, it's just another chance to hype the phone and excite the potential buyers.



    IMHO the iPhone has about a 50% chance of shipping with a built in GPS receiver.



    However if it doesn't what I really hope Apple will do is release a Bluetooth GPS receiver that you can plug into your car (or at least support a 3rd party one) and so you can at least get driving directions when in your car.
  • Reply 357 of 439
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lukasodhner View Post


    back when E911 was imposed on the carriers they each had to choose how they would get location data, Verizon went with AGPS (Triangulation) while Nextel & Cingular went with GPS receivers in the phone. I'm not sure about Sprint.

    Each method has advantages, I had a nextel phone that took forever to pull in a GPS signal and would not work in a car. VZ Navigator phones can pull in the location data quickly and accurately almost any time there is a cell signal available, inside a car or building, whatever. Cingular went down the GPS route, so for them to upgrade thousands of cell sites for AGPS is impratical. If the iPhone is going to have location data accurate enough for driving directions it will have to have a GPS receiver built into it, that's all there is to it.



    One more thing to keep in mind: Obviously the iPhone is not in production and may change, Let's say Steve wanted to use the SiFR Star 3 GPS chipset, (actually does work inside, the best available today, as far as I know) He would have been negotiating the cost for the past few months, The best way for him to get a good price would be to pretend he didn't need it at all. He went through with the introduction pretending like he intended to release the iPhone without GPS, that could scare the guys over at SiRF into giving Apple a better deal on the 15,000,000 units. As far as I know most cell phone GPS units use lower quality GPS receivers to this would be a big sale for them any way you add it up.



    And what does Steve loose by holding off that announcement, nothing, it's just another chance to hype the phone and excite the potential buyers.



    IMHO the iPhone has about a 50% chance of shipping with a built in GPS receiver.



    However if it doesn't what I really hope Apple will do is release a Bluetooth GPS receiver that you can plug into your car (or at least support a 3rd party one) and so you can at least get driving directions when in your car.



    Interesting post, but I don't agree.
  • Reply 358 of 439
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cato988 View Post


    first comment...



    THIS PHONE IS AMAZING



    is it just cingular? im going to be pissed if it is



    I have it! i might of possibly cought apple in releasing the iphone to other company's. When steve jobs talked about statistics at macworld San Francisco he stated that 978-mil phones were sold last year. he also said they have a good chances of 1% which would be about 10mil phones but later said they would only be using cingular and said they have 45-mil customers which would be and estimated of no more than 500,000 phones. So they would not be making enough money to continue upgrades/updates etc... Well who knows but thats possibly might be true or it could be a mistake/ making themselves look good type of thing? Tell me what you think... And you have to think that not everyone buys smart phones too, but its to cool so people will look past the price etc.



    -Have a good night-
  • Reply 359 of 439
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JoeMacosx View Post


    I have it! i might of possibly cought apple in realsing the iphone to other company's. When steve jobs talked about statistics at macworld San Francisco he stated that 978-mil phones were sold last year. he also said they have a good chances of 1% which would be about 1mil phones but later said they would only be using cingular and said they have 45-mil customers which would be and estimated of no more than 500,000 phones. So they would not be making enough money to continue upgrades/updates etc... Well who knows but thats possibly might be true or it could be a mistake/ making themselves look good type of thing? Tell me what you think... And you have to think that not everyone buys smart phones too, but its to cool so people will look past the price etc.



    -Have a good night-



    I'm not sure I understand your first sentence. But your math is wrong. 1% of 1 billion is not 1 million. It's 10 million.



    Also, during an interview on CNBC Tuesday, he reiterated those numbers.



    You're forgetting that the number is through 2008. By then, Europe and Asia will be in the selling field. They all use GSM.
  • Reply 360 of 439
    shanmugamshanmugam Posts: 1,200member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    On average, the difference is $60 to $80. But high end phones are given much more.



    then as long as there is a option to unlock it, all the GSM network can work, it is better to pay additional $60 to $80 then tied up with 2 years of agony with one company ...
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