Yep, I agree it is likely. For some reason I felt the need to rebut claims of certainty.
GPS is certainly integral to the future of mainstream computing...
I've been loudly trumpeting the importance of google earth for a while now. I believe it will soon be google's crown jewel. Searching is nice, but a searchable, zoomable, layerable, 3d view of the earth will eclipse the significance of mere text searching.
Portable devices become truly useful by providing location aware functionality. While this is probably obvious to most, I have a feeling that the significance of location-aware computing is still underestimated.
iPhone could sense you're at Home Depot and remind you to pick up more steel wool (don't ask)
iPhone could sense you're at a theater and turn off it's audible ringer.
iPhone could see that you're still at home, that it isn't a holiday, that you're late for work, and wake up its owner.
iPhone could direct you back to your your car after loosing it in a mall parking lot.
iPhone could sense that you're walking to the parking lot after work, that there is a traffic jam on your route home, and suggest a different route even before entering the car.
iPhone could ...
Location aware computing is HUGE... so i hope that apple includes GPS functionality. I'm eagerly awaiting official confirmation from apple, but so far they've been mum on GPS.
Yeah, way cool! I'm just SO absent minded, that what you say is just such a great idea, a prioritized shopping (to do) list, within your gadget, that "gently nags" you!
I want to read everything but them, hence the request for the new thread. There certainly seems like enough intense interest from a select group of readership to merit one.
Here - I'll even do it myself, the thread is created. Mr H and Melgross, please go there.
Dons Greenpeace/PETA/hippie peacenik outfit and says,
Ah, watch me everyone as I try and have a debate with Mel. Watch him ignore everything I say and the evidence I present.
How do you know? Actually, I've been reading this thread from the beginning.
And you've claimed morethanonce in this thread that all US cell phones have AGPS.
I'm 100% sure that you are wrong.
I have explained how the "evidence" that you've used to try and prove your point does no such thing.
Yeah, I know. I think you need to go back and re-read my post. You think the iPhone has GPS. You think that because lots of people reported Jobs saying it. But someone could have mis-heard or mis-interpreted. I don't know one way or the other whether the iPhone has GPS or not. No-one has provided a time-stamp for Jobs actually saying it in his keynote, and the official Apple pages make no mention of GPS.
How utterly random. What's boating got to do with anything?
No, I don't want to argue this any further. Let's move on.
I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of new phones in America that don't have GPS receivers in them.
I would argue that the acronym, GPS, has become somewhat generic since its inception. It no longer only refers to triangulation via multiple satellites It can also mean other methods for extracting one's geolocation; such as, the basic cell phone tracking used by E911. Assuming you are in range of a cellular tower, you basic positon can be tracked, though not nearly as accurate as traditional GPSs.
Check out page 9 of the PDF link (below).The data is over 4 years old, but it does list the various systems and technologies used by carriers at that time.
According to the document, Cingular uses EOTD (Enhanced Observed Time Difference), which uses triangulation from 3 or more cell towers to determine the handset's location within an accuracy of 50 - 200 meters, and U-TDOA (Uplink Time Difference Of Arrival) from TruePositon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Melinger, On 4/12/06
> > Out of the larger carriers in the US, it's my understanding that Verizon
> and Sprint are using A-GPS and the GSM guys, T-Mobile and Cingular are using
> alternative technology like Uplink Time Difference of Arrival (U-TDOA)
> technology provided by TruePosition.
> >
> >
> > A-GPS requires a chip in the phone while U-TDOA doesn't.
I would argue that the acronym, GPS, has become somewhat generic since its inception.
I don't agree. I'd say that anyone using the acronym GPS to refer to something that doesn't involve receiving GPS data from GPS satellites is wrong and possibly being deliberately misleading.
If a salesperson or marketing materials told you that a phone you were about to by had GPS, but once you'd bought it, you found out that actually it used basestation triangulation, you'd probably be somewhat pissed. GPS you can use when you are outside the phone network.
Having an argument about whether a phone uses AGPS or basestation triangulation would be possibly be pointless, as both require access to the cellular network. I suppose though that AGPS has the potential to be much more accurate.
Whilst on the network, the iPhone will definitely have a mechanism by which it can determine its location and thereby potentially offer location-based services. There is the additional possibility that the iPhone may have GPS which would enable it to determine its position when outside the network. However, with no network connection, it wouldn't be able to offer much in the way of location-based services.
Is it just me or is the GPS discussion, though very worthy and interesting, not deserving of its own thread?
Yes it does, enumbers started a new thread, but you know the thread title sukz!
But seriously, I hope we've played out the GPS discussion. For me it was a learning curve, I'd been out of the loop techwise for about 8 years. At least now I know where the technologies are and where they may be going.
At this point until we get more concrete information it seems pointless to discuss further.
HELL YES on GPS. I was looking at Trimble phones a while back.
With Bluetooth...I hope Trimble comes out with a reciever that talks to this. Or of course better yet Apple integrates GPS. Perhaps licensing/enlisting Trimble or Magellan, as well as Google.
Ok, now, I don't want to re-start the previous argument, but I found this from an ad on a site I was on.
I'm wondering just how it works. They tell you what it can do for you, but not HOW it does it, other than to say it works by GPS, with your phone of choice, and carrier of choice, and is software.
Since it's free for 30 days, I'm almost tempted to try it, even though I don't have a car.
Ok, now, I don't want to re-start the previous argument, but I found this from an ad on a site I was on.
I'm wondering just how it works. They tell you what it can do for you, but not HOW it does it, other than to say it works by GPS, with your phone of choice, and carrier of choice, and is software.
Since it's free for 30 days, I'm almost tempted to try it, even though I don't have a car.
It does say some more in Terms of Service, but it's still unclear.
For some reason that link doesn't work for me (I. e. when I go to select a carrier). If you go to their main/basic URL though http://store.telenav.net/store/ that works and you can select carrier and phone model. Note however that the list of available phones is nowhere near a complete list of all available phones from each carrier (either as bought with a new contract or existing contracts) AFAIK. For instance under T-Mobile (my carrier) only one phone is on the list (a Blackberry), and if you select the "Other" option the website displays this message, "TeleNav is not currently available for your phone. Please fill in the following information and we will let you know as soon as TeleNav is available." So who knows, who really knows? Also if you look at available phones for their service providers it appears that a majority on that list require an external Bluetooth GPS receiver.
Thus do not rely on this type of GPS if lost in the mountains of Southwest Oregon.
Or AGPS for that matter. No signal=no assistance=no GPS.
That said, the iPhone probably has the computational juice to do GPS with maps, etc. The typical problem with AGPS/GPS in E911 is inability to see any or enough sats. For these purposes TDOA (or any variant) relying on towers is likely better in as much as if the towers can't see you, you aren't calling for help either. AGPS probably works well enough in the car is broken call for help scenario and much better in the rural regions where maybe only 1 tower can see you.
Not so good if I were calling from help from inside my house when the last time the phone got to see sky was a couple hours ago at the mall. I have 2 bars with my phone right now but my PDA based GPS reciever shows zero sats.
Or AGPS for that matter. No signal=no assistance=no GPS.
That said, the iPhone probably has the computational juice to do GPS with maps, etc. The typical problem with AGPS/GPS in E911 is inability to see any or enough sats. For these purposes TDOA (or any variant) relying on towers is likely better in as much as if the towers can't see you, you aren't calling for help either. AGPS probably works well enough in the car is broken call for help scenario and much better in the rural regions where maybe only 1 tower can see you.
Not so good if I were calling from help from inside my house when the last time the phone got to see sky was a couple hours ago at the mall. I have 2 bars with my phone right now but my PDA based GPS reciever shows zero sats.
Vinea
I think the jury is still out on AGPS specifically indoors, however in the past 5 years great strides have been made with indoor GPS. How good is it in real world usage, that I don't have a clue. And the pricepoint of the best indoor GPS units, again I don't have a clue. If you google indoor and GPS and limit to PDF file type, I think that you will find that most GPS chip makers are evolving their GPS indoor technologies. IMHO some of the indoor GPS technology is amazing (where it works like parking garages, tall buildings, steel trunks), who knows what the future holds for it's adoption.
Yep, I agree it is likely. For some reason I felt the need to rebut claims of certainty.
GPS is certainly integral to the future of mainstream computing...
I've been loudly trumpeting the importance of google earth for a while now. I believe it will soon be google's crown jewel. Searching is nice, but a searchable, zoomable, layerable, 3d view of the earth will eclipse the significance of mere text searching.
Portable devices become truly useful by providing location aware functionality. While this is probably obvious to most, I have a feeling that the significance of location-aware computing is still underestimated.
iPhone could sense that you're at Home Depot and remind you to pick up more steel wool (don't ask)
iPhone could sense that you're at a theater and turn off it's audible ringer.
iPhone could see that you're still at home, that it isn't a holiday, that you're late for work and wake you up.
iPhone could direct you back to your your car after losing it in a mall parking lot.
iPhone could sense that you're walking to the parking lot after work, that there is a traffic jam on your route home, and suggest a different route even before entering the car.
iPhone could ...
Location aware computing is HUGE... so i hope that apple includes GPS functionality. I'm eagerly awaiting official confirmation from apple, but so far they've been mum on GPS.
The trouble here being that, inevitably, location spamming would become the norm.
Yes, it knows you're at Home Depot and need to pick up steel wool, but it also enthusiastically informs you that Home Depot is running a big sale on random orbit sanders. And that traffic report is brought to you buy Lexus. And turn off your cell phone at the theater but remember to visit the concession stand.
And more of the same, everywhere all the time.
And if you don't think that would happen, you haven't been following the advertising industries strenuous efforts to move ads off of (declining ratings) TV and (declining circulation) print and into the fabric of your day to day life.
Of course, it would all "subsidize" the "cost" of these wonderful new services. Because as we now know, you either let advertisers plaster their stuff all over every available surface, virtual or otherwise, or you forgo all goods and services, since advertising pays for everything always.
Now, about the fretting over closed systems and user installable apps or even user written apps: what are these apps? Anybody here write an app for a smart phone that added significant functionality, or is it just sort of a geek pride thing?
I ask because the tenor of the discussion reminds me of the "no software" caveat re Macs, which in practice means "doesn't have aisle after aisle of poorly written crap-ware, a lot of which was designed to make up for shortcomings in the Windows environment itself, a lot more of which is redundant, and of which 99% of the stuff worth having has a direct Mac equivalent."
So is it possible that between what Apple actually designs into the phone and whatever third party apps make their way through the Apple vetting process the iPhone will actually do 99% of what 99% of users want it to do? And that as it matures as a platform additional apps will become available that will continue to largely address the needs/desires of the large majority of users?
And that whether or not one can install additional apps is mostly an ideological point amongst enthusiasts that just like the idea?
Or are there serious, make it more useful for many people type things that we would anticipate not being included by Apple or its partners? I actually have no idea on this point, not being a smart phone user myself. But a lot of the stuff I've seem mentioned on other forums are hard-core geek niche fun, and it would appear to me pretty much irrelevant to the success of the iPhone.
Now as far as extending the paradigm as a platform, sure: you need developers. I'm just thinking that for the roll-out of the phone that "closed system" isn't at all a make or break deal for the people likely to buy it.
I agree for 90% of the market that would buy the iPhone 3rd party apps don't particularly matter as long as the phone come with the software they need. I think Apple already has the ideal development platform in Dashboard Widgets where there are already 2500 apps.
OTHO Apple certainly won't be able to provide everything. Apple is not in control of all internet protocols and document formats. Many people need access to such protocols and formats to conduct their business. There does need to be some room for expansion for legitimate business. For example it should be open to installing a Word and Excel reader or installing a plug in so that Mail can sync with Outlook. If we cannot install flash we will loose much of the functionality on current websites nor will we have the ability to view websites the same way we can on full computers.
Now as far as extending the paradigm as a platform, sure: you need developers. I'm just thinking that for the roll-out of the phone that "closed system" isn't at all a make or break deal for the people likely to buy it.
PRECISELY! I couldn't agree more. I've never owned a smart phone. I carry an iPod, a Sony W300i and a Tungsten E2. The money I get from eBaying those three devices will pay for the iPhone (hopefully)! Apple had me sold on simply the interface ... it's easy. I could care less about it being tied to Cingular. Things will come in time and we have 6 months to see what it'll finally become...
I think we're missing the larger significance of the iPhone though. Maybe they're using the iPhone to test the waters for a multi-touch interface laptop. The oft-rumoured "Mac Tablet or iTablet or Pad or whatever". Maybe they road is being paved for a small Ultra-Portable with touch interface and flash memory. If Apple gets the right developers on board, it could be the ultimate tool in the scientific and medical communities. The one area I see problems though is with text input. A lot of people need the tactile recognition of a keyboard. For some reason I can't see tons of people being happy doing more extensive text input on a touch screen. So, as awesome as the iPhone is, I believe it's leading the way to something far more profound here in the next few years...
Maybe something like This, you know, just with OS X and an Apple flair...
I agree for 90% of the market that would buy the iPhone 3rd party apps don't particularly matter as long as the phone come with the software they need. I think Apple already has the ideal development platform in Dashboard Widgets where there are already 2500 apps.
OTHO Apple certainly won't be able to provide everything. Apple is not in control of all internet protocols and document formats. Many people need access to such protocols and formats to conduct their business. There does need to be some room for expansion for legitimate business. For example it should be open to installing a Word and Excel reader or installing a plug in so that Mail can sync with Outlook. If we cannot install flash we will loose much of the functionality on current websites nor will we have the ability to view websites the same way we can on full computers.
Good points, gotta figure Apple has something in mind to address flash support and document access-- even Steve isn't that off in his own world.
My guess is that all the major stuff will get covered, in short order if not before release, by Apple or approved third party devs; then will commence the iPhone version of the "sux cause it doesn't support my Ogg rips/Linux/obscure file format" bitch fest.
Comments
Yep, I agree it is likely. For some reason I felt the need to rebut claims of certainty.
GPS is certainly integral to the future of mainstream computing...
I've been loudly trumpeting the importance of google earth for a while now. I believe it will soon be google's crown jewel. Searching is nice, but a searchable, zoomable, layerable, 3d view of the earth will eclipse the significance of mere text searching.
Portable devices become truly useful by providing location aware functionality. While this is probably obvious to most, I have a feeling that the significance of location-aware computing is still underestimated.
iPhone could sense you're at Home Depot and remind you to pick up more steel wool (don't ask)
iPhone could sense you're at a theater and turn off it's audible ringer.
iPhone could see that you're still at home, that it isn't a holiday, that you're late for work, and wake up its owner.
iPhone could direct you back to your your car after loosing it in a mall parking lot.
iPhone could sense that you're walking to the parking lot after work, that there is a traffic jam on your route home, and suggest a different route even before entering the car.
iPhone could ...
Location aware computing is HUGE... so i hope that apple includes GPS functionality. I'm eagerly awaiting official confirmation from apple, but so far they've been mum on GPS.
Yeah, way cool! I'm just SO absent minded, that what you say is just such a great idea, a prioritized shopping (to do) list, within your gadget, that "gently nags" you!
I want to read everything but them, hence the request for the new thread. There certainly seems like enough intense interest from a select group of readership to merit one.
Here - I'll even do it myself, the thread is created. Mr H and Melgross, please go there.
Dons Greenpeace/PETA/hippie peacenik outfit and says,
Hell no we won't go!
Ah, watch me everyone as I try and have a debate with Mel. Watch him ignore everything I say and the evidence I present.
How do you know? Actually, I've been reading this thread from the beginning.
And you've claimed more than once in this thread that all US cell phones have AGPS.
I'm 100% sure that you are wrong.
I have explained how the "evidence" that you've used to try and prove your point does no such thing.
How utterly random. What's boating got to do with anything?
No, I don't want to argue this any further. Let's move on.
I have to leave for the evening right now anyway.
Have fun!
I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of new phones in America that don't have GPS receivers in them.
I would argue that the acronym, GPS, has become somewhat generic since its inception. It no longer only refers to triangulation via multiple satellites It can also mean other methods for extracting one's geolocation; such as, the basic cell phone tracking used by E911. Assuming you are in range of a cellular tower, you basic positon can be tracked, though not nearly as accurate as traditional GPSs.
Check out page 9 of the PDF link (below).The data is over 4 years old, but it does list the various systems and technologies used by carriers at that time.
- Intro_to_Location_Technologies.pdf
According to the document, Cingular uses EOTD (Enhanced Observed Time Difference), which uses triangulation from 3 or more cell towers to determine the handset's location within an accuracy of 50 - 200 meters, and U-TDOA (Uplink Time Difference Of Arrival) from TruePositon.> > Out of the larger carriers in the US, it's my understanding that Verizon
> and Sprint are using A-GPS and the GSM guys, T-Mobile and Cingular are using
> alternative technology like Uplink Time Difference of Arrival (U-TDOA)
> technology provided by TruePosition.
> >
> >
> > A-GPS requires a chip in the phone while U-TDOA doesn't.
(source)
I would argue that the acronym, GPS, has become somewhat generic since its inception.
I don't agree. I'd say that anyone using the acronym GPS to refer to something that doesn't involve receiving GPS data from GPS satellites is wrong and possibly being deliberately misleading.
If a salesperson or marketing materials told you that a phone you were about to by had GPS, but once you'd bought it, you found out that actually it used basestation triangulation, you'd probably be somewhat pissed. GPS you can use when you are outside the phone network.
Having an argument about whether a phone uses AGPS or basestation triangulation would be possibly be pointless, as both require access to the cellular network. I suppose though that AGPS has the potential to be much more accurate.
Whilst on the network, the iPhone will definitely have a mechanism by which it can determine its location and thereby potentially offer location-based services. There is the additional possibility that the iPhone may have GPS which would enable it to determine its position when outside the network. However, with no network connection, it wouldn't be able to offer much in the way of location-based services.
Is it just me or is the GPS discussion, though very worthy and interesting, not deserving of its own thread?
Yes it does, enumbers started a new thread, but you know the thread title sukz!
But seriously, I hope we've played out the GPS discussion. For me it was a learning curve, I'd been out of the loop techwise for about 8 years. At least now I know where the technologies are and where they may be going.
At this point until we get more concrete information it seems pointless to discuss further.
iPhone GPS is TBD.
With Bluetooth...I hope Trimble comes out with a reciever that talks to this. Or of course better yet Apple integrates GPS. Perhaps licensing/enlisting Trimble or Magellan, as well as Google.
I'm wondering just how it works. They tell you what it can do for you, but not HOW it does it, other than to say it works by GPS, with your phone of choice, and carrier of choice, and is software.
Since it's free for 30 days, I'm almost tempted to try it, even though I don't have a car.
http://store.telenav.net/store/campa...N1160_T_103006
It does say some more in Terms of Service, but it's still unclear.
Ok, now, I don't want to re-start the previous argument, but I found this from an ad on a site I was on.
I'm wondering just how it works. They tell you what it can do for you, but not HOW it does it, other than to say it works by GPS, with your phone of choice, and carrier of choice, and is software.
Since it's free for 30 days, I'm almost tempted to try it, even though I don't have a car.
http://store.telenav.net/store/campa...N1160_T_103006
It does say some more in Terms of Service, but it's still unclear.
For some reason that link doesn't work for me (I. e. when I go to select a carrier). If you go to their main/basic URL though http://store.telenav.net/store/ that works and you can select carrier and phone model. Note however that the list of available phones is nowhere near a complete list of all available phones from each carrier (either as bought with a new contract or existing contracts) AFAIK. For instance under T-Mobile (my carrier) only one phone is on the list (a Blackberry), and if you select the "Other" option the website displays this message, "TeleNav is not currently available for your phone. Please fill in the following information and we will let you know as soon as TeleNav is available." So who knows, who really knows? Also if you look at available phones for their service providers it appears that a majority on that list require an external Bluetooth GPS receiver.
Thus do not rely on this type of GPS if lost in the mountains of Southwest Oregon.
Or AGPS for that matter. No signal=no assistance=no GPS.
That said, the iPhone probably has the computational juice to do GPS with maps, etc. The typical problem with AGPS/GPS in E911 is inability to see any or enough sats. For these purposes TDOA (or any variant) relying on towers is likely better in as much as if the towers can't see you, you aren't calling for help either. AGPS probably works well enough in the car is broken call for help scenario and much better in the rural regions where maybe only 1 tower can see you.
Not so good if I were calling from help from inside my house when the last time the phone got to see sky was a couple hours ago at the mall. I have 2 bars with my phone right now but my PDA based GPS reciever shows zero sats.
Vinea
Or AGPS for that matter. No signal=no assistance=no GPS.
That said, the iPhone probably has the computational juice to do GPS with maps, etc. The typical problem with AGPS/GPS in E911 is inability to see any or enough sats. For these purposes TDOA (or any variant) relying on towers is likely better in as much as if the towers can't see you, you aren't calling for help either. AGPS probably works well enough in the car is broken call for help scenario and much better in the rural regions where maybe only 1 tower can see you.
Not so good if I were calling from help from inside my house when the last time the phone got to see sky was a couple hours ago at the mall. I have 2 bars with my phone right now but my PDA based GPS reciever shows zero sats.
Vinea
I think the jury is still out on AGPS specifically indoors, however in the past 5 years great strides have been made with indoor GPS. How good is it in real world usage, that I don't have a clue. And the pricepoint of the best indoor GPS units, again I don't have a clue. If you google indoor and GPS and limit to PDF file type, I think that you will find that most GPS chip makers are evolving their GPS indoor technologies. IMHO some of the indoor GPS technology is amazing (where it works like parking garages, tall buildings, steel trunks), who knows what the future holds for it's adoption.
Does it have GPS? ?No.
Yep, I agree it is likely. For some reason I felt the need to rebut claims of certainty.
GPS is certainly integral to the future of mainstream computing...
I've been loudly trumpeting the importance of google earth for a while now. I believe it will soon be google's crown jewel. Searching is nice, but a searchable, zoomable, layerable, 3d view of the earth will eclipse the significance of mere text searching.
Portable devices become truly useful by providing location aware functionality. While this is probably obvious to most, I have a feeling that the significance of location-aware computing is still underestimated.
iPhone could sense that you're at Home Depot and remind you to pick up more steel wool (don't ask)
iPhone could sense that you're at a theater and turn off it's audible ringer.
iPhone could see that you're still at home, that it isn't a holiday, that you're late for work and wake you up.
iPhone could direct you back to your your car after losing it in a mall parking lot.
iPhone could sense that you're walking to the parking lot after work, that there is a traffic jam on your route home, and suggest a different route even before entering the car.
iPhone could ...
Location aware computing is HUGE... so i hope that apple includes GPS functionality. I'm eagerly awaiting official confirmation from apple, but so far they've been mum on GPS.
The trouble here being that, inevitably, location spamming would become the norm.
Yes, it knows you're at Home Depot and need to pick up steel wool, but it also enthusiastically informs you that Home Depot is running a big sale on random orbit sanders. And that traffic report is brought to you buy Lexus. And turn off your cell phone at the theater but remember to visit the concession stand.
And more of the same, everywhere all the time.
And if you don't think that would happen, you haven't been following the advertising industries strenuous efforts to move ads off of (declining ratings) TV and (declining circulation) print and into the fabric of your day to day life.
Of course, it would all "subsidize" the "cost" of these wonderful new services. Because as we now know, you either let advertisers plaster their stuff all over every available surface, virtual or otherwise, or you forgo all goods and services, since advertising pays for everything always.
I ask because the tenor of the discussion reminds me of the "no software" caveat re Macs, which in practice means "doesn't have aisle after aisle of poorly written crap-ware, a lot of which was designed to make up for shortcomings in the Windows environment itself, a lot more of which is redundant, and of which 99% of the stuff worth having has a direct Mac equivalent."
So is it possible that between what Apple actually designs into the phone and whatever third party apps make their way through the Apple vetting process the iPhone will actually do 99% of what 99% of users want it to do? And that as it matures as a platform additional apps will become available that will continue to largely address the needs/desires of the large majority of users?
And that whether or not one can install additional apps is mostly an ideological point amongst enthusiasts that just like the idea?
Or are there serious, make it more useful for many people type things that we would anticipate not being included by Apple or its partners? I actually have no idea on this point, not being a smart phone user myself. But a lot of the stuff I've seem mentioned on other forums are hard-core geek niche fun, and it would appear to me pretty much irrelevant to the success of the iPhone.
Now as far as extending the paradigm as a platform, sure: you need developers. I'm just thinking that for the roll-out of the phone that "closed system" isn't at all a make or break deal for the people likely to buy it.
OTHO Apple certainly won't be able to provide everything. Apple is not in control of all internet protocols and document formats. Many people need access to such protocols and formats to conduct their business. There does need to be some room for expansion for legitimate business. For example it should be open to installing a Word and Excel reader or installing a plug in so that Mail can sync with Outlook. If we cannot install flash we will loose much of the functionality on current websites nor will we have the ability to view websites the same way we can on full computers.
Now as far as extending the paradigm as a platform, sure: you need developers. I'm just thinking that for the roll-out of the phone that "closed system" isn't at all a make or break deal for the people likely to buy it.
PRECISELY! I couldn't agree more. I've never owned a smart phone. I carry an iPod, a Sony W300i and a Tungsten E2. The money I get from eBaying those three devices will pay for the iPhone (hopefully)! Apple had me sold on simply the interface ... it's easy. I could care less about it being tied to Cingular. Things will come in time and we have 6 months to see what it'll finally become...
I think we're missing the larger significance of the iPhone though. Maybe they're using the iPhone to test the waters for a multi-touch interface laptop. The oft-rumoured "Mac Tablet or iTablet or Pad or whatever". Maybe they road is being paved for a small Ultra-Portable with touch interface and flash memory. If Apple gets the right developers on board, it could be the ultimate tool in the scientific and medical communities. The one area I see problems though is with text input. A lot of people need the tactile recognition of a keyboard. For some reason I can't see tons of people being happy doing more extensive text input on a touch screen. So, as awesome as the iPhone is, I believe it's leading the way to something far more profound here in the next few years...
Maybe something like This, you know, just with OS X and an Apple flair...
I'm taking friendly wagers for the closest time and day this occurs. I'm saying this happens at 9:30am on Monday, 15-JAN-07.
I agree for 90% of the market that would buy the iPhone 3rd party apps don't particularly matter as long as the phone come with the software they need. I think Apple already has the ideal development platform in Dashboard Widgets where there are already 2500 apps.
OTHO Apple certainly won't be able to provide everything. Apple is not in control of all internet protocols and document formats. Many people need access to such protocols and formats to conduct their business. There does need to be some room for expansion for legitimate business. For example it should be open to installing a Word and Excel reader or installing a plug in so that Mail can sync with Outlook. If we cannot install flash we will loose much of the functionality on current websites nor will we have the ability to view websites the same way we can on full computers.
Good points, gotta figure Apple has something in mind to address flash support and document access-- even Steve isn't that off in his own world.
My guess is that all the major stuff will get covered, in short order if not before release, by Apple or approved third party devs; then will commence the iPhone version of the "sux cause it doesn't support my Ogg rips/Linux/obscure file format" bitch fest.