Not difficult. It's just a shame that you and others don't seem able to apply basic logic:
1.) AGPS requires a GPS receiver on the phone, the data received is passed over the network for servers to process the data (GPS requires quite a bit of data processing to determine the actual position).
2.) Saying a phone has AGPS therefore implies that it has a GPS receiver.
3.) Just because the E911 regs were the main driving force behind the development of AGPS, it does not imply that "all phones have AGPS". Other methods are perfectly valid for E911.
4.) No evidence has been provided that all new phones in America have AGPS.
I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of new phones in America that don't have GPS receivers in them. Like all the "basic" (non smartphone) phones e.g. Sony Ericsson W810i, Motorola SLVR etc. etc.
Lets just make it clear that I'm not trying to prove to anyone that the iPhone doesn't have GPS. It's just that no one has proved that Steve actually said it.
Are you not familiar with the game "Chinese whispers"? Just because most of the live reports said he said it, doesn't mean he said it. Someone could have mis-heard or mis-interpreted what he said.
Someone provided an article that states the iPhone has GPS. Again, I've seen plenty of articles about new Apple products that get features wrong.
I'd say the balance of probability is that he did say it. But we have the benefit that there is a recording of what he said! It would be nice if someone could provide a time stamp, because until then we can't be sure.
You didn't follow our entire conversation.
I didn't say that a GPS receiver wasn't in the phone, just the opposite.
Maybe you guys need a seperate "GPS in the iPhone" thread, because your comments are way boring.
Boring to the casual observer, yes! Boring to the technical observer, no!
I think the basic point about all this is an all-in-one device, look at all the small electronic gadgets you need to carry in your pocket these days (music player, cell phone, pager, car remote, GPS locator, etcetera). SJ gets this, one device and ease of use.
The iPhone appears to be the first device to converge on a number of fronts. And GPS is clearly one of those fronts.
.....look at all the small electronic gadgets you need to carry in your pocket these days (music player, cell phone, pager, car remote, GPS locator, etcetera).
I don't want to go through airport security with franksargent.
Now there is conformation that this IS a closed device. This is sad. I was hoping to be able to add programs like on my old Samsung, and my Treo, but this is not to be.
Now there is conformation that this IS a closed device. This is sad. I was hoping to be able to add programs like on my old Samsung, and my Treo, but this is not to be.
I don't know, motomodders, et. al. seem able to customize their firmware, who knows what the hacking community would do with this thing? But I really don't have a clue!
If you think that Apple will hold off releasing products to avoid hurting the feelings of the early adopters, then you are sorely mistaken. There will be iPhone v1 in June, iPhone v2 in November in time for Christmas - the need to stay ahead of the competition makes this vital to do.
I'm sure that you mean an iPhone Nano as v2, yes? And I would agree with you there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebaydan777
well all i can say is dont expect a version 2 of iphone until the 2 years from the day the phone was released....apple is not going to screw people over he would lose business...
Right. You think Apple is going to sit around for two years with their fingers up their asses and let other manufacturers catch up to them? I'm glad you're not running Apple! The iPhone will be updated yearly (at least). We've had five generations of iPods in just over five years. The iPhone will be similar.
The two-year contract is just something that people will have to live with. I'm sure that the iPhone will do just fine for a two year contract.
Ah, watch me everyone as I try and have a debate with Mel. Watch him ignore everything I say and the evidence I present.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
You didn't follow our entire conversation.
How do you know? Actually, I've been reading this thread from the beginning.
And you've claimed morethanonce in this thread that all US cell phones have AGPS.
I'm 100% sure that you are wrong.
I have explained how the "evidence" that you've used to try and prove your point does no such thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
I didn't say that a GPS receiver wasn't in the phone, just the opposite.
Yeah, I know. I think you need to go back and re-read my post. You think the iPhone has GPS. You think that because lots of people reported Jobs saying it. But someone could have mis-heard or mis-interpreted. I don't know one way or the other whether the iPhone has GPS or not. No-one has provided a time-stamp for Jobs actually saying it in his keynote, and the official Apple pages make no mention of GPS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Boating used AGPS.
How utterly random. What's boating got to do with anything?
I too am in the "we don't know if it has GPS" boat.
Steve didn't mention it and GPS isn't required by law in the US.
I for one will backpetal slightly on GPS in the iPhone, in a probabilistic sense I'd SWAG perhaps 95% certainty for AGPS, and perhaps 60% certainty for GPS.
But I do feel AGPS (at least) is the future of all cell phones, see for example this recent (dated 12/01/06) link;
GPS technologies are really coming down in price and capabilities (indoor GPS) and we have GPS III coming online in 2011-3 timeframe which will further improve civilian GPS applications.
You have to wonder how many companies Apple may partner with in all of those regions. And in 2 years when the Cingular contract is up, Apple can have its pick of the bunch.
Did Steve specifically say Apple signed a 2 year exclusive contract with Cingular? I might have missed that part.
Quote:
The Edge haters I guess don't think Cingular can upgrade. They've got some time.
This is true. I saw a website for EdgeWireless.com. They offer Edge Unlimited Data rates for $49.99 a month. Its a Cingular service that is currently only offered in the North Western part of the US. I wonder if this is the test for a nation wide roll out.
Here is a comment from Jobs about applications on the iPhone.
“You don’t want your phone to be an open platform,” meaning that anyone can write applications for it and potentially gum up the provider's network, says Jobs. “You need it to work when you need it to work. Cingular doesn’t want to see their West Coast network go down because some application messed up.”
The platform will need to be open to some degree. What do you do when you receive word and excel documents in your e-mail if the MacBU cannot provide word and excel for the iPhone. I would imagine Apple will have a system for approving apps to run on the cellular network.
There should be a division between the apps. Apps that run on the cellular network have to go through Apple. A framework for general apps to run on the internet but cannot run on the cellular network.
Yep, I agree it is likely. For some reason I felt the need to rebut claims of certainty.
GPS is certainly integral to the future of mainstream computing...
I've been loudly trumpeting the importance of google earth for a while now. I believe it will soon be google's crown jewel. Searching is nice, but a searchable, zoomable, layerable, 3d view of the earth will eclipse the significance of mere text searching.
Portable devices become truly useful by providing location aware functionality. While this is probably obvious to most, I have a feeling that the significance of location-aware computing is still underestimated.
iPhone could sense that you're at Home Depot and remind you to pick up more steel wool (don't ask)
iPhone could sense that you're at a theater and turn off it's audible ringer.
iPhone could see that you're still at home, that it isn't a holiday, that you're late for work and wake you up.
iPhone could direct you back to your your car after losing it in a mall parking lot.
iPhone could sense that you're walking to the parking lot after work, that there is a traffic jam on your route home, and suggest a different route even before entering the car.
iPhone could ...
Location aware computing is HUGE... so i hope that apple includes GPS functionality. I'm eagerly awaiting official confirmation from apple, but so far they've been mum on GPS.
I want to read everything but them, hence the request for the new thread. There certainly seems like enough intense interest from a select group of readership to merit one.
Here - I'll even do it myself, the thread is created. Mr H and Melgross, please go there.
Comments
I would be surprised if Apple wasn't working on a 3G version of this phone.
It also possible that he's trialing other derivatives.
Eg: an iPhone with no cellular network (just wifi/bluetooth & voip).
He said a 3G version was coming.
How well can an accelerometer track your movement. They can tell acceleration, direction change etc, and are used in conjunction with some car GPSes
It can't track your movement.
You did not say "most". You said "all".
Not difficult. It's just a shame that you and others don't seem able to apply basic logic:
1.) AGPS requires a GPS receiver on the phone, the data received is passed over the network for servers to process the data (GPS requires quite a bit of data processing to determine the actual position).
2.) Saying a phone has AGPS therefore implies that it has a GPS receiver.
3.) Just because the E911 regs were the main driving force behind the development of AGPS, it does not imply that "all phones have AGPS". Other methods are perfectly valid for E911.
4.) No evidence has been provided that all new phones in America have AGPS.
I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of new phones in America that don't have GPS receivers in them. Like all the "basic" (non smartphone) phones e.g. Sony Ericsson W810i, Motorola SLVR etc. etc.
Lets just make it clear that I'm not trying to prove to anyone that the iPhone doesn't have GPS. It's just that no one has proved that Steve actually said it.
Are you not familiar with the game "Chinese whispers"? Just because most of the live reports said he said it, doesn't mean he said it. Someone could have mis-heard or mis-interpreted what he said.
Someone provided an article that states the iPhone has GPS. Again, I've seen plenty of articles about new Apple products that get features wrong.
I'd say the balance of probability is that he did say it. But we have the benefit that there is a recording of what he said! It would be nice if someone could provide a time stamp, because until then we can't be sure.
You didn't follow our entire conversation.
I didn't say that a GPS receiver wasn't in the phone, just the opposite.
Boating used AGPS.
You didn't follow our entire conversation.
I didn't say that a GPS receiver wasn't in the phone, just the opposite.
Boating used AGPS.
Maybe you guys need a seperate "GPS in the iPhone" thread, because your comments are way boring.
Maybe you guys need a seperate "GPS in the iPhone" thread, because your comments are way boring.
You don't have to read them.
Maybe you guys need a seperate "GPS in the iPhone" thread, because your comments are way boring.
Boring to the casual observer, yes! Boring to the technical observer, no!
I think the basic point about all this is an all-in-one device, look at all the small electronic gadgets you need to carry in your pocket these days (music player, cell phone, pager, car remote, GPS locator, etcetera). SJ gets this, one device and ease of use.
The iPhone appears to be the first device to converge on a number of fronts. And GPS is clearly one of those fronts.
.....look at all the small electronic gadgets you need to carry in your pocket these days (music player, cell phone, pager, car remote, GPS locator, etcetera).
I don't want to go through airport security with franksargent.
http://www.zdnet.com.au/reviews/cool...9273014,00.htm
I don't want to go through airport security with franksargent.
You don't want to be behind me, that's for sure, you might miss your plane!
Now there is conformation that this IS a closed device. This is sad. I was hoping to be able to add programs like on my old Samsung, and my Treo, but this is not to be.
http://www.zdnet.com.au/reviews/cool...9273014,00.htm
I don't know, motomodders, et. al. seem able to customize their firmware, who knows what the hacking community would do with this thing? But I really don't have a clue!
If you think that Apple will hold off releasing products to avoid hurting the feelings of the early adopters, then you are sorely mistaken. There will be iPhone v1 in June, iPhone v2 in November in time for Christmas - the need to stay ahead of the competition makes this vital to do.
I'm sure that you mean an iPhone Nano as v2, yes? And I would agree with you there.
well all i can say is dont expect a version 2 of iphone until the 2 years from the day the phone was released....apple is not going to screw people over he would lose business...
Right. You think Apple is going to sit around for two years with their fingers up their asses and let other manufacturers catch up to them? I'm glad you're not running Apple! The iPhone will be updated yearly (at least). We've had five generations of iPods in just over five years. The iPhone will be similar.
The two-year contract is just something that people will have to live with. I'm sure that the iPhone will do just fine for a two year contract.
You didn't follow our entire conversation.
How do you know? Actually, I've been reading this thread from the beginning.
And you've claimed more than once in this thread that all US cell phones have AGPS.
I'm 100% sure that you are wrong.
I have explained how the "evidence" that you've used to try and prove your point does no such thing.
I didn't say that a GPS receiver wasn't in the phone, just the opposite.
Boating used AGPS.
How utterly random. What's boating got to do with anything?
Steve didn't mention it and GPS isn't required by law in the US.
I too am in the "we don't know if it has GPS" boat.
Steve didn't mention it and GPS isn't required by law in the US.
I for one will backpetal slightly on GPS in the iPhone, in a probabilistic sense I'd SWAG perhaps 95% certainty for AGPS, and perhaps 60% certainty for GPS.
But I do feel AGPS (at least) is the future of all cell phones, see for example this recent (dated 12/01/06) link;
present and future of GPS chips in cell phones
GPS technologies are really coming down in price and capabilities (indoor GPS) and we have GPS III coming online in 2011-3 timeframe which will further improve civilian GPS applications.
You have to wonder how many companies Apple may partner with in all of those regions. And in 2 years when the Cingular contract is up, Apple can have its pick of the bunch.
Did Steve specifically say Apple signed a 2 year exclusive contract with Cingular? I might have missed that part.
The Edge haters I guess don't think Cingular can upgrade. They've got some time.
This is true. I saw a website for EdgeWireless.com. They offer Edge Unlimited Data rates for $49.99 a month. Its a Cingular service that is currently only offered in the North Western part of the US. I wonder if this is the test for a nation wide roll out.
Here is a comment from Jobs about applications on the iPhone.
“You don’t want your phone to be an open platform,” meaning that anyone can write applications for it and potentially gum up the provider's network, says Jobs. “You need it to work when you need it to work. Cingular doesn’t want to see their West Coast network go down because some application messed up.”
The platform will need to be open to some degree. What do you do when you receive word and excel documents in your e-mail if the MacBU cannot provide word and excel for the iPhone. I would imagine Apple will have a system for approving apps to run on the cellular network.
There should be a division between the apps. Apps that run on the cellular network have to go through Apple. A framework for general apps to run on the internet but cannot run on the cellular network.
That's geekware not a killer consumer function.
What the big deal with GPS?
That's geekware not a killer consumer function.
It would be if the "killer" is after you, or you want to meet someone in a unknown terrain!
GPS is certainly integral to the future of mainstream computing...
I've been loudly trumpeting the importance of google earth for a while now. I believe it will soon be google's crown jewel. Searching is nice, but a searchable, zoomable, layerable, 3d view of the earth will eclipse the significance of mere text searching.
Portable devices become truly useful by providing location aware functionality. While this is probably obvious to most, I have a feeling that the significance of location-aware computing is still underestimated.
iPhone could sense that you're at Home Depot and remind you to pick up more steel wool (don't ask)
iPhone could sense that you're at a theater and turn off it's audible ringer.
iPhone could see that you're still at home, that it isn't a holiday, that you're late for work and wake you up.
iPhone could direct you back to your your car after losing it in a mall parking lot.
iPhone could sense that you're walking to the parking lot after work, that there is a traffic jam on your route home, and suggest a different route even before entering the car.
iPhone could ...
Location aware computing is HUGE... so i hope that apple includes GPS functionality. I'm eagerly awaiting official confirmation from apple, but so far they've been mum on GPS.
You don't have to read them.
I want to read everything but them, hence the request for the new thread. There certainly seems like enough intense interest from a select group of readership to merit one.
Here - I'll even do it myself, the thread is created. Mr H and Melgross, please go there.
Did Steve specifically say Apple signed a 2 year exclusive contract with Cingular? I might have missed that part.
Actually, I think the word he used was "multi-year". And from what I read in other threads and other sites is that it's until (or though?) 2009.